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New war in Europe, courtesy of Putin


elijah
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By the way I know for a fact that I’m incredibly annoying in these issues. In my defense I will say that my husband is Bulgarian and he is so worried I end up tired of hearing so much about this at home :lmao: 

Sorry to you all! 

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24 minutes ago, karbatal said:

By the way I know for a fact that I’m incredibly annoying in these issues. In my defense I will say that my husband is Bulgarian and he is so worried I end up tired of hearing so much about this at home :lmao: 

Sorry to you all! 

I wonder what he tells u and if he is putinofille, because you don’t sound logical on these issues 😀. Or it may be cause Spain is in the very west of EU

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1 hour ago, karbatal said:

Ok. Sure. Let’s fear that Putin invide us. Just like far right in Spain claims that Morocco will invide us. Or European xenophobics fear that Europe will be Muslim in 2075. 

Putin HAS invaded Ukraine despite virtually the entire world pleading with him not to.  Yet, I am constantly reading borderline excuses for him and also others ( NOT referring to you ) posting obscure anti Democrat USA links instead.  

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24 minutes ago, lex92 said:

Unbelievable

I m shook. This is 2022. A sovereign European nation gets invaded and I hear ppl trying to excuse this. The fact that any European or any person really turns a blind eye... I cant gasp it.

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Okay, this is terrifying. Talked to my uncle who lives about 30km west to the Ukrainian border, apparently Hungarian government already sent reinforcements to the border because they're expecting a big influx of citizens fleeing from over there, up to several ten thousands.

There are missile attacks all over the country and Putin is talking about how he is going to de-militarize and 'de-nazify' the country, how the fuck can ANYONE sane think it's a-okay for Russia to go this far in defense of their 'interests'. And shame on any European who is still harping on with what-about-isms about 'the West' this and 'the West' that (so much for European solidarity), let me just say again thank god most of Central / Eastern Europe is inside NATO, I'd be absolutely frightened for my home country right now if it wasn't.

 

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Guest CzarnaWisnia

For more context on the present crisis, I suggest watching this (or part of this) very recent interview with professor John Mearsheimer, an expert on the subject. He is professor of political science.

 

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Guest CzarnaWisnia
1 hour ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Putin HAS invaded Ukraine despite virtually the entire world pleading with him not to.  Yet, I am constantly reading borderline excuses for him and also others ( NOT referring to you ) posting obscure anti Democrat USA links instead.  

I'm assuming you're referring to me. Please indicate which of the links I posted were "obscure".

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1 hour ago, elijah said:

I wonder what he tells u and if he is putinofille, because you don’t sound logical on these issues 😀. Or it may be cause Spain is in the very west of EU

He’s not pro Russian at all. Neither am I. In my case it was too many years reading and editing international news. It made me a bit immune to drama. 

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1 hour ago, Jazzy Jan said:

Putin HAS invaded Ukraine despite virtually the entire world pleading with him not to.  Yet, I am constantly reading borderline excuses for him and also others ( NOT referring to you ) posting obscure anti Democrat USA links instead.  

I know. But truth is that I don’t think people are making excuses. In my mind is a double standard,because NATO has done exactly the same recently.

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1 hour ago, Aime said:

@karbatalyou are speaking absolute nonsense. Please stop. Just because your husband is from Bulgaria, it doesn't mean you know anything about Ukraine, Russia or what Ukrainian or Russian people want.

???

 You didn’t understand what I wrote. If I speak about this is because for years part of my job was international news and I did like three long reports on Ukraine speaking with Ukrainian people. That doesn’t mean I know more but that does allow me to have a different point of view and to have a critical mind about western media.

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1 hour ago, karbatal said:

???

 You didn’t understand what I wrote. If I speak about this is because for years part of my job was international news and I did like three long reports on Ukraine speaking with Ukrainian people. That doesn’t mean I know more but that does allow me to have a different point of view and to have a critical mind about western media.

It's not about having a different point of view. People who live in the region / spend a lot of their time here have the upper hand here. Please stop.

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There is so much nonsense in this thread from the pro-Russian, this is unbelievable to read… we live in a sad World, really. No wonder why it’s going so bad. 
Blaming the media for everything is the 1st step to a fascist state. If that’s what you’re looking for, you must be really sad in your life. 
The only propaganda is in your HEAD. 

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10 minutes ago, runa said:

There is so much nonsense in this thread from the pro-Russian, this is unbelievable to read… we live in a sad World, really. No wonder why it’s going so bad. 
Blaming the media for everything is the 1st step to a fascist state. If that’s what you’re looking for, you must be really sad in your life. 
The only propaganda is in your HEAD. 

Absolutely. I m amazed that some ppl try to equate US and RU, especially regarding Ukraine. The fact that Ukraine in 2013-2014 chose to seek EU/NATO path (like most of eastern Europe including Bulgaria, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia has done so more than 20 years ago) is hardly the US fault. Even if some influence was imposed on Ukraine from the West, it can in no way be compared to what RU did today. And really: if Putin was concentrated on the wellbeing of the Russian ppl and the other ppl in the ex USSR sphere (Kazahstan, Uzbekistan etc.), maybe Ukraine wouldn't have seeked proWestern path. Anyways, regarding Ukraine RU has done a tremendous mistake. Those ppl would become antiRU and they were not until recently. And RU has only Putin to blame. 

And to think I was thinking in 2001-2002 that RU may one day join EU. Wow. How deluded was I.

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Guest CzarnaWisnia
2 minutes ago, elijah said:

Absolutely. I m amazed that some ppl try to equate US and RU, especially regarding Ukraine. The fact that Ukraine in 2013-2014 chose to seek EU/NATO path (like most of eastern Europe including Bulgaria, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia has done so more than 20 years ago) is hardly the US fault. Even if some influence was imposed on Ukraine from the West, it can in no way be compared to what RU did today. And really: if Putin was concentrated on the wellbeing of the Russian ppl and the other ppl in the ex USSR sphere (Kazahstan, Uzbekistan etc.), maybe Ukraine wouldn't have seeked proWestern path. Anyways, regarding Ukraine RU has done a tremendous mistake. Those ppl would become antiRU and they were not until recently. And RU has only Putin to blame. 

And to think I was thinking in 2001-2002 that RU may one day join EU. Wow. How deluded was I.

International politics like this has nothing to do with the wellbeing of populations, but with expanding or protecting one's sphere of power and influence. The leaders of these countries don't base their actions on the possible wellbeing or harm of their's or other countries' populations. In 2008, at the NATO summit, the US insisted that it be noted Georgia and Ukraine would become part of NATO, to which Russia indicated that was unacceptable, because it would bring Western forces, and military forces, right up to their border. The war in Georgia followed. Crimea was taken in 2014 following the change in regime in Ukraine. There's an important military naval base there (Sebastopol), which the Russians would not allow the West to have control over. To avoid what is going on right now, Ukraine should have been made into a neutral state (which it basically was until 2014). Russia will destroy Ukraine before they let the West add it to its own sphere of influence. Obviously, that's a horrible tragedy.

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2 minutes ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

International politics like this has nothing to do with the wellbeing of populations, but with expanding or protecting one's sphere of power and influence. The leaders of these countries don't base their actions on the possible wellbeing or harm of their's or other countries' populations. In 2008, at the NATO summit, the US insisted that it be noted Georgia and Ukraine would become part of NATO, to which Russia indicated that was unacceptable, because it would bring Western forces, and military forces, right up to their border. The war in Georgia followed. Crimea was taken in 2014 following the change in regime in Ukraine. There's an important military naval base there (Sebastopol), which the Russians would not allow the West to have control over. To avoid what is going on right now, Ukraine should have been made into a neutral state (which it basically was until 2014). Russia will destroy Ukraine before they let the West add it to its own sphere of influence. Obviously, that's a horrible tragedy.

that's a very accurate summary of the reasons that led to this drama

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1 minute ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

International politics like this has nothing to do with the wellbeing of populations, but with expanding or protecting one's sphere of power and influence. The leaders of these countries don't base their actions on the possible wellbeing or harm of their's or other countries' populations. In 2008, at the NATO summit, the US insisted that it be noted Georgia and Ukraine would become part of NATO, to which Russia indicated that was unacceptable, because it would bring Western forces, and military forces, right up to their border. The war in Georgia followed. Crimea was taken in 2014 following the change in regime in Ukraine. There's an important military naval base there (Sebastopol), which the Russians would not allow the West to have control over. To avoid what is going on right now, Ukraine should have been made into a neutral state (which it basically was until 2014). Russia will destroy Ukraine before they let the West add it to its own sphere of influence. Obviously, that's a horrible tragedy.

How would Canada react if it was made "neutral" by US and RU? In the end, it is near those two countries borders in northwest America? How would Canadians feel to be ordered by RU-US or to have their fate decided by those 2 or others? Shouldn't Ukraine choose what it future should be? Or sovereignty (a principle enshrined in the UN Charter) applies selectively on certain states??? As for the wellbeing of ppl: I understand that its not a factor, but I m saying that if it were, maybe Ukraine naturally would have leaned towards RU. As for the military bases etc. same argument could be made for Kaliningrad with the huge RU bases 5 minutes from Brussels, so its really dumb. The West was never a threat for RU.

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1 hour ago, Aime said:

It's not about having a different point of view. People who live in the region / spend a lot of their time here have the upper hand here. Please stop.

Listen. You stop. Because i will say whatever I want here. I never said I know more than those people and I wish we had members who knew more.

Now leave me alone or I will block you. I don’t have patience for stupid people.

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Guest CzarnaWisnia
3 minutes ago, sotos8 said:

that's a very accurate summary of the reasons that led to this drama

It's also a geographical issue. Poland for instance has HORRIBLE geography. It was stuck between great powers throughout history, like Prussia, Austria and Russia, and therefore was WIPED OUT of the map entirely for more than a century. Countries stuck in the middle of great powers suffer greatly from the strategies of these powers (who always fear their own destruction). Ukraine is not in such a geographical position, actually. It has one great power next to it, Russia, but none on the other side. Except it does politically, in the form of US-led NATO expansionism.

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The only ones spoiling this thread are the ones who only want to know one side and don’t learn more. Nobody here is pro Russia. There is A LOT of things going on and all here are against cunt Putin bombing countries.

 

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