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New war in Europe, courtesy of Putin


elijah
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Guest CzarnaWisnia
2 minutes ago, elijah said:

How would Canada react if it was made "neutral" by US and RU? In the end, it is near those two countries borders in northwest America? How would Canadians feel to be ordered by RU-US or to have their fate decided by those 2 or others? Shouldn't Ukraine choose what it future should be? Or sovereignty (a principle enshrined in the UN Charter) applies selectively on certain states??? As for the wellbeing of ppl: I understand that its not a factor, but I m saying that if it were, maybe Ukraine naturally would have leaned towards RU. As for the military bases etc. same argument could be made for Kaliningrad with the huge RU bases 5 minutes from Brussels, so its really dumb. The West was never a threat for RU.

I'm not saying Ukraine should be excluded from discussing the possibility of being a neutral country, but for that to happen at all it needs to not be used by others as a proxy to exert power. Ukraine should first try to solve the civil war that's been going on on its territory for years. As for the military base, the Sebastopol naval base is roughly 1500 km from Moscow. In 1962, Russia placed missiles in Cuba. That was roughly the same distance from Washington DC. The US found that absolutely unacceptable, therefore the crisis that followed.

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1 minute ago, karbatal said:

Only Russian people can. He is completely deranged and crazy. 

Russian people are bullied so hard by Putin that noone can say anything against him without punishment and dare not to

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1 minute ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

I'm not saying Ukraine should be excluded from discussing the possibility of being a neutral country, but for that to happen at all it needs to not be used by others as a proxy to exert power. Ukraine should first try to solve the civil war that's been going on on its territory for years. As for the military base, the Sebastopol naval base is roughly 1500 km from Moscow. In 1962, Russia placed missiles in Cuba. That was roughly the same distance from Washington DC. The US found that absolutely unacceptable, therefore the crisis that followed.

I dont think its used by "others as a proxy". Ukraine was a neutral country until its previous president decided NOT to ratify the signed EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, which Ukrainians in their majority supported. Then the president was toppled and Poroshenko was elected. Then Putin annexed Crimea. The military bases of NATO (non existent) were just a pretext for a land grab. Like today. It is probably a weird way to point the attention of RU ppl to smith else than to their economic hardship. While it worked in 2014, I feel it won't today (hopefully). I think the RU ppl are cleverer than this shit that Putin pulled today.

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20 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Listen. You stop. Because i will say whatever I want here. I never said I know more than those people and I wish we had members who knew more.

Now leave me alone or I will block you. I don’t have patience for stupid people.

So *I* am stupid? People are dying, people are scared, people are hiding in their basements - these are the facts - and yet you choose to flaunt your ignorance just because you want to be "not like the other girls". This is war, not a thread about Kylie Minogue or Madonna's Instagram. You can't "choose" to support the wrong side.

And by the way, there ARE users here living in Russia and Ukraine, but if you were the kind of expert you pretend to be, you'd know that they aren't going to shout about it. If you don't know why, you truly don't know shit.

And you can block me all you want - you've been insensitive, aggressive and outright racist before and you said you were apologetic about it, but like so many people these days, you don't actually practice what you preach.

Oh, and thank God for people like @elijahand @Jazzy Jan , actual voices of reason.

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4 minutes ago, Aime said:

So *I* am stupid? People are dying, people are scared, people are hiding in their basements - these are the facts - and yet you choose to flaunt your ignorance just because you want to be "not like the other girls". This is war, not a thread about Kylie Minogue or Madonna's Instagram. You can't "choose" to support the wrong side.

And by the way, there ARE users here living in Russia and Ukraine, but if you were the kind of expert you pretend to be, you'd know that they aren't going to shout about it. If you don't know why, you truly don't know shit.

And you can block me all you want - you've been insensitive, aggressive and outright racist before and you said you were apologetic about it, but like so many people these days, you don't actually practice what you preach.

Oh, and thank God for people like @elijahand @Jazzy Jan , actual voices of reason.

Ugh 

Do not ever write me private messages and never again refer to me in this forum. 

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54 minutes ago, dollhouse said:

Russian people are bullied so hard by Putin that noone can say anything against him without punishment and dare not to

The other solution is to bomb and kill millions. It’s either diplomacy and sanctions or Russian elites and oligarchs to put him aside. A war would mean incredibly high numbers of deaths and the risk of a nuclear disaster. I doubt Putin has the same support by the rich oligarchs now as he had some months ago.

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My brain is weeping 🤐

 

The Kremlin said on Thursday that the length of Russia's military operation in Ukraine depended on how it progressed and on its aims, and that the assault should ideally cleanse the country of "Nazis" and "neutralise" Kyiv's military potential.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-operation-must-demilitarise-ukraine-purge-it-nazis-2022-02-24/

 

 

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1 hour ago, karbatal said:

Ugh 

Do not ever write me private messages and never again refer to me in this forum. 

Got nothing substantial to say to support your "point of view"? Thought so.

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2 hours ago, elijah said:

How would Canada react if it was made "neutral" by US and RU? In the end, it is near those two countries borders in northwest America? How would Canadians feel to be ordered by RU-US or to have their fate decided by those 2 or others? Shouldn't Ukraine choose what it future should be? Or sovereignty (a principle enshrined in the UN Charter) applies selectively on certain states??? As for the wellbeing of ppl: I understand that its not a factor, but I m saying that if it were, maybe Ukraine naturally would have leaned towards RU. As for the military bases etc. same argument could be made for Kaliningrad with the huge RU bases 5 minutes from Brussels, so its really dumb. 

Well said. 

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1. Ukraine is a sovereign country. It has its own internal problems, like every country in the world. It should have the right to decide whether or not to apply to join NATO. 

2. Russia declared war on, and has invaded a sovereign country. 

 

It is reductive, but those are the baseline facts. Whether or not US/EU behaved in a certain way in the past with other situations does not change the above facts. 

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9 minutes ago, air1975 said:

1. Ukraine is a sovereign country. It has its own internal problems, like every country in the world. It should have the right to decide whether or not to apply to join NATO. 

2. Russia declared war on, and has invaded a sovereign country. 

 

It is reductive, but those are the baseline facts. Whether or not US/EU behaved in a certain way in the past with other situations does not change the above facts. 

Absolutely true 

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I feel really sad for these people.They are killing them and life continues as if their lifes didn´t matter.I know it happens all the time, everywhere, and with different type of people, but for some reason these attackings and bombings...I don´t know, it reminds me of the stories my granmother used to tell me. I hope it finishes fast.

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