Jump to content

New war in Europe, courtesy of Putin


Recommended Posts

Just now, promise to try said:

but if the people that are very pro russia ar clearly located in a zone, this could be a solution.Because the separatism creates tensions, but the extreme centralism too. We don´t have anybody fromthat area in madonnanation to explain things first hand?????

Not to mention that Ukraine is a pretty intolerant country and very drastic trying to erase its Russian heritage. Those people have not been respected AT all in the past two decades. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Anyway let’s hope that the conversation of Moscow with France and Germany which will be taking place brings some solution. It’s clear that the solution will not come from Biden. USA is making now army movements AGAIN in the Indic sea facing Russia and China. Imagine Russia was doing that??????

🤣 and Spain is going to be in charge of NATO soon🤣 everything is so scary

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, promise to try said:

🤣 and Spain is going to be in charge of NATO soon🤣 everything is so scary

Don’t worry, we are doing a pantomime sending planes but I’m sure our government has zero interest in anything else 😂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest CzarnaWisnia
On 1/25/2022 at 2:22 AM, karbatal said:

And what’s the plan? Bomb and destroy eastern Ukraine? What are the planes and tanks for? The only thing that arms can do is make a civil war. 
 

I am frankly tired of these stupid and useless war games. 
 

Why is USA so concerned with Ukraine and not Georgia? What’s really happening? 
 

I guess we will know in some months time.

The media will work hard to convince the population that the American government is, as usual, only trying to further democracy abroad (LMAO), but hopefully people won't be so naive. Personally, I don't think the US will move further militarily on this issue, but that's it's mostly trying to detract attention from internal crises.

Some context on the issue (article from 2017) :

America’s Ukraine Hypocrisy

 

There is an abundance of outrage in the United States about Russia’s alleged meddling in the 2016 presidential election. Multiple investigations are taking place, and Moscow’s conduct was a major justification for the sanctions legislation that Congress just passed. Some furious political figures and members of the media insist that the Putin government’s interference constitutes an act of war. One especially agitated House member even compared it explicitly to the Pearl Harbor and 9/11 attacks.

Such umbrage might be more credible if the United States refrained from engaging in similar conduct. But the historical record shows that Washington has meddled in the political affairs of dozens of countries—including many democracies. An egregious example occurred in Ukraine during the Euromaidan Revolution of 2014.

Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych was not an admirable character. After his election in 2010, he used patronage and other instruments of state power in a flagrant fashion to the advantage of his political party. That high‐handed behavior and legendary corruption alienated large portions of Ukraine’s population. As the Ukrainian economy languished and fell farther and farther behind those of Poland and other East European neighbors that had implemented significant market‐oriented reforms, public anger at Yanukovych mounted. When he rejected the European Union’s terms for an association agreement in late 2013, in favor of a Russian offer, angry demonstrators filled Kiev’s Independence Square, known as the Maidan, as well as sites in other cities.

Despite his leadership defects and character flaws, Yanukovych had been duly elected in balloting that international observers considered reasonably free and fair—about the best standard one can hope for outside the mature Western democracies. A decent respect for democratic institutions and procedures meant that he ought to be able to serve out his lawful term as president, which would end in 2016.

Neither the domestic opposition nor Washington and its European Union allies behaved in that fashion. Instead, Western leaders made it clear that they supported the efforts of demonstrators to force Yanukovych to reverse course and approve the EU agreement or, if he would not do so, to remove the president before his term expired. Sen. John McCain (R‑AZ), the ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, went to Kiev to show solidarity with the Euromaidan activists. McCain dined with opposition leaders, including members of the ultra right‐wing Svoboda Party, and later appeared on stage in Maidan Square during a mass rally. He stood shoulder to shoulder with Svoboda leader Oleg Tyagnibok.

But McCain’s actions were a model of diplomatic restraint compared to the conduct of Victoria Nuland, the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian Affairs. As Ukraine’s political crisis deepened, Nuland and her subordinates became more brazen in favoring the anti‐Yanukovych demonstrators. Nuland noted in a speech to the U.S.-Ukraine Foundation on December 13, 2013, that she had traveled to Ukraine three times in the weeks following the start of the demonstrations. Visiting the Maidan on December 5, she handed out cookies to demonstrators and expressed support for their cause.

The extent of the Obama administration’s meddling in Ukraine’s politics was breathtaking. Russian intelligence intercepted and leaked to the international media a Nuland telephone call in which she and U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Geoffey Pyatt discussed in detail their preferences for specific personnel in a post‐Yanukovych government. The U.S‑favored candidates included Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the man who became prime minister once Yanukovych was ousted from power. During the telephone call, Nuland stated enthusiastically that “Yats is the guy” who would do the best job.

Nuland and Pyatt were engaged in such planning at a time when Yanukovych was still Ukraine’s lawful president. It was startling to have diplomatic representatives of a foreign country—and a country that routinely touts the need to respect democratic processes and the sovereignty of other nations—to be scheming about removing an elected government and replacing it with officials meriting U.S. approval.

Washington’s conduct not only constituted meddling, it bordered on micromanagement. At one point, Pyatt mentioned the complex dynamic among the three principal opposition leaders, Yatsenyuk, Oleh Tyahnybok, and Vitali Klitschko. Both Pyatt and Nuland wanted to keep Tyahnybok and Klitschko out of an interim government. In the former case, they worried about his extremist ties; in the latter, they seemed to want him to wait and make a bid for office on a longer‐term basis. Nuland stated that “I don’t think Klitsch should go into the government. I don’t think it’s necessary.” She added that what Yatseniuk needed “is Klitsch and Tyanhybok on the outside.”

The two diplomats also were prepared to escalate the already extensive U.S. involvement in Ukraine’s political turbulence. Pyatt stated bluntly that “we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing [the political transition].” Nuland clearly had Vice President Joe Biden in mind for that role. Noting that the vice president’s national security adviser was in direct contact with her, Nuland related that she told him “probably tomorrow for an atta‐boy and to get the details to stick. So Biden’s willing.”

Both the Obama administration and most of the American news media portrayed the Euromaidan Revolution as a spontaneous, popular uprising against a corrupt and brutal government.

A February 24, 2014, Washington Post editorial celebrated the Maidan demonstrators and their successful campaign to overthrow Yanukovych. The “moves were democratic,” the Washington Post concluded, and “Kiev is now controlled by pro‐Western parties.”

It was a grotesque distortion to portray the events in Ukraine as a purely indigenous, popular uprising. The Nuland‐Pyatt telephone conversation and other actions confirm that the United States was considerably more than a passive observer to the turbulence. Instead, U.S. officials were blatantly meddling in Ukraine. Such conduct was utterly improper. The United States had no right to try to orchestrate political outcomes in another country—especially one on the border of another great power. It is no wonder that Russia reacted badly to the unconstitutional ouster of an elected, pro‐Russian government—an ouster that occurred not only with Washington’s blessing, but apparently with its assistance.

That episode, as well as earlier ones involving Italy, France and other democratic countries, should be kept in mind the next time U.S. political leaders or the media publicly fume about Russia’s apparent interference in America’s 2016 elections. One can legitimately condemn some aspects of Moscow’s behavior, but the force of America’s moral outrage is vitiated by the stench of U.S. hypocrisy.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy?fbclid=IwAR0POVEii3MU63CqymtMgwORT3VglNhT2oWCpJWhQOl2_wlrQ90Ssf6DXS8

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are some really hot Russians out there like those cutie pies. However, one must not confuse Putin with the Russians. There are some great, progressive Russians, its just that their voice is silenced. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, karbatal said:

:lmao:

:rotfl: 

4 hours ago, elijah said:

There are some really hot Russians out there like those cutie pies. However, one must not confuse Putin with the Russians. There are some great, progressive Russians, its just that their voice is silenced. 

I remember years ago when I was in Belgrade. There were so many hot guys who looked like aggressive dominant tops. Too bad homophobia is so wide spread in the region.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If only the U.S. for once refrained from typically interfering in foreign affairs,  badly poking their nose therefore escalating shit further. Yeah, the hypocrisy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Gaudet said:

If only the U.S. for once refrained from typically interfering in foreign affairs,  badly poking their nose therefore escalating shit further. Yeah, the hypocrisy.

In this case however I wonder what the logic for blaming US is. Ukraine obviously wants to join EU and NATO and those organizations in theory are open to new members.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, elijah said:

In this case however I wonder what the logic for blaming US is. Ukraine obviously wants to join EU and NATO and those organizations in theory are open to new members.

You are right but let’s remember what happened when some Russian misiles were near USA in Pigs Bay. If USA had armies in its border they would be WORSE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, elijah said:

In this case however I wonder what the logic for blaming US is. Ukraine obviously wants to join EU and NATO and those organizations in theory are open to new members.

It's down to a certain gas pipeline https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/28/world/europe/nord-stream-2-ukraine-russia.html , https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/what-are-europes-options-case-russian-gas-disruption-2022-01-27/ , https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/2/3/russia-ukraine-crisis-how-europe-may-cope-if-putin-shuts-off-gas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

After so much fanfare in the end it has been Ukraine the one throwing American bombs to the civilians in the east provinces. Forcing them to take refugee in Russia.

Who would have thought…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, karbatal said:

After so much fanfare in the end it has been Ukraine the one throwing American bombs to the civilians in the east provinces. Forcing them to take refugee in Russia.

Who would have thought…

there is a speculation that the 2 superpowers have agreed that ukraine shall be devided into Eastern (Russian) and western (NATO) and this cannot happen without fucking up Ukranians through a war 

Αnd what about the EU? Macron and Soltz were negotiating desperately with Russia ,as once Kissinger said if you try to call the EU who will answer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, sotos8 said:

there is a speculation that the 2 superpowers have agreed that ukraine shall be devided into Eastern (Russian) and western (NATO) and this cannot happen without fucking up Ukranians through a war 

Αnd what about the EU? Macron and Soltz were negotiating desperately with Russia ,as once Kissinger said if you try to call the EU who will answer?

Something that media is somehow forgotten is that it has been divided since 2014. The pro Russian provinces don’t want to be part of Ukraine, population has spoken Russian for decades and those who didn’t want to learn Ukrainian after the USSR disappeared had to migrate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, karbatal said:

After so much fanfare in the end it has been Ukraine the one throwing American bombs to the civilians in the east provinces. Forcing them to take refugee in Russia.

Who would have thought…

News here say Russians are the only one provoke bombing to fabricate stories to start a war

Apparently they even broke their own gaspipe and next will be chemical fabric to make Ukraine seem responsible for chemical attack..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, dollhouse said:

News here say Russians are the only one provoke bombing to fabricate stories to start a war

Apparently they even broke their own gaspipe and next will be chemical fabric to make Ukraine seem responsible for chemical attack..

If only we had accurate information. I guess we’re up to more disinformation in the next days 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m so over of this endless war propaganda. People should get the facts straight before blaming Russia for everything that is going on in Ukraine.

Let it be very clear:


1. More than 70% of the territory of Ukraine is the historical lands of Russia.
2. The city of Kiev is the capital of ancient Russia, which preceded the emergence of Russia more than a thousand years ago.
3. More than 50% of Russian and Russian-speaking citizens live in Ukraine (because Russians historically settled these lands).
4. In 2014, the Nationalists from the west of Ukraine, with the support of the United States, carried out an anti-constitutional armed coup in the country and the United States installed a puppet regime there, which is still under the complete control of the West and the United States, since it is completely dependent on the West financially and in terms of security.
5. The East of Ukraine, which did not agree with the coup in the country, refused to recognize the puppet regime supported by the West, and then this regime sent nationalists east to Donbass to kill Russians-speakers civilians. Russia obviously did not agree with this and backed the separatists.
6. Crimea is a hub and the center of the Russian-speakers from Ukraine and it hosts the biggest Russian naval base outside of Russia mainland. Russia feared that the coup in 2014 could make its military base falls in the hands of NATO. Russia obviously could not accept this, so with overwhelming support from the separatists Russia officially backed the secession of Crimea from Ukraine, which by the way it was a russian territory handed to Ukraine by former soviet leader Nikita Khrushov in the 50s.
7. As for NATO, in 1990 the US Secretary of State promissed not to expand NATO eastwards towards Russia. The West deceived Russia when it was weak in the 90s and produced 5 waves of expansion by coming close to the borders of Russia and placing its bases there. That is why now Russia demands the full fulfillment of the conditions from the US and NATO on non-expansion, and the fulfillment of the promises that were given to Russia.
8. USA fear losing its global authority, because Russia is no longer as weak as in the 90s, and China is already in second place in the global economy and is predicted to be in first place in 10 years. That is why the United States is trying to whip up panic in Europe about an allegedly impending attack by the Russians, in order to impose sanctions against Russia under this pretext and weaken its economy.
9. The US is pushing Ukraine to start hostilities against the Donbass in eastern Ukraine because Russia will not tolerate a puppet regime in Kiev killing Russians and fighting back military. And that is when the US will want to declare Russia the agressor.
10. The US is trying its best to cling world domination, fomenting conflicts in order to maintain leadership, but it slips through its fingers like water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Nessie said:

I’m so over of this endless war propaganda. People should get the facts straight before blaming Russia for everything that is going on in Ukraine.

Let it be very clear:


1. More than 70% of the territory of Ukraine is the historical lands of Russia.
2. The city of Kiev is the capital of ancient Russia, which preceded the emergence of Russia more than a thousand years ago.
3. More than 50% of Russian and Russian-speaking citizens live in Ukraine (because Russians historically settled these lands).
4. In 2014, the Nationalists from the west of Ukraine, with the support of the United States, carried out an anti-constitutional armed coup in the country and the United States installed a puppet regime there, which is still under the complete control of the West and the United States, since it is completely dependent on the West financially and in terms of security.
5. The East of Ukraine, which did not agree with the coup in the country, refused to recognize the puppet regime supported by the West, and then this regime sent nationalists east to Donbass to kill Russians-speakers civilians. Russia obviously did not agree with this and backed the separatists.
6. Crimea is a hub and the center of the Russian-speakers from Ukraine and it hosts the biggest Russian naval base outside of Russia mainland. Russia feared that the coup in 2014 could make its military base falls in the hands of NATO. Russia obviously could not accept this, so with overwhelming support from the separatists Russia officially backed the secession of Crimea from Ukraine, which by the way it was a russian territory handed to Ukraine by former soviet leader Nikita Khrushov in the 50s.
7. As for NATO, in 1990 the US Secretary of State promissed not to expand NATO eastwards towards Russia. The West deceived Russia when it was weak in the 90s and produced 5 waves of expansion by coming close to the borders of Russia and placing its bases there. That is why now Russia demands the full fulfillment of the conditions from the US and NATO on non-expansion, and the fulfillment of the promises that were given to Russia.
8. USA fear losing its global authority, because Russia is no longer as weak as in the 90s, and China is already in second place in the global economy and is predicted to be in first place in 10 years. That is why the United States is trying to whip up panic in Europe about an allegedly impending attack by the Russians, in order to impose sanctions against Russia under this pretext and weaken its economy.
9. The US is pushing Ukraine to start hostilities against the Donbass in eastern Ukraine because Russia will not tolerate a puppet regime in Kiev killing Russians and fighting back military. And that is when the US will want to declare Russia the agressor.
10. The US is trying its best to cling world domination, fomenting conflicts in order to maintain leadership, but it slips through its fingers like water.

Thank you 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, it wont stop at Ukraine

Putin already warned about "Technical military action" IF USA wont withdraw all NATO troops and weapons from eastern and middle European countires

AND in Russian military doctrine there is prognose that WW3 will start 2020's, they are prepared

Next Baltic, Finland, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria and so on..watch this space

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, dollhouse said:

Yeah, it wont stop at Ukraine

Putin already warned about "Technical military action" IF USA wont withdraw all NATO troops and weapons from eastern and middle European countires

AND in Russian military doctrine there is prognose that WW3 will start 2020's, they are prepared

Next Baltic, Finland, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria and so on..watch this space

Oh shut up with the nonsense. Why are you always spoiling all threads with your trolling?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Oh shut up with the nonsense. Why are you always spoiling all threads with your trolling?

Oh open your eyes pull your head from the hole

Putin is on a mission, he wants to restore what damage Jeltsin did to Soviet states letting them slip to independence and Russians influence in Europe and world

Its all on record as what he and his military commander said before and now

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...