New war in Europe, courtesy of Putin

[karbatal]

4 minutes ago, dollhouse said:

Oh open your eyes pull your head from the hole

Putin is on a mission, he wants to restore what damage Jeltsin did to Soviet states letting them slip to independence and Russians influence in Europe and world

Its all on record as what he and his military commander said before and now

Mamarracha 

[sotos8]

1 hour ago, Nessie said:

I’m so over of this endless war propaganda. People should get the facts straight before blaming Russia for everything that is going on in Ukraine.

Let it be very clear:

1. More than 70% of the territory of Ukraine is the historical lands of Russia.
2. The city of Kiev is the capital of ancient Russia, which preceded the emergence of Russia more than a thousand years ago.
3. More than 50% of Russian and Russian-speaking citizens live in Ukraine (because Russians historically settled these lands).
4. In 2014, the Nationalists from the west of Ukraine, with the support of the United States, carried out an anti-constitutional armed coup in the country and the United States installed a puppet regime there, which is still under the complete control of the West and the United States, since it is completely dependent on the West financially and in terms of security.
5. The East of Ukraine, which did not agree with the coup in the country, refused to recognize the puppet regime supported by the West, and then this regime sent nationalists east to Donbass to kill Russians-speakers civilians. Russia obviously did not agree with this and backed the separatists.
6. Crimea is a hub and the center of the Russian-speakers from Ukraine and it hosts the biggest Russian naval base outside of Russia mainland. Russia feared that the coup in 2014 could make its military base falls in the hands of NATO. Russia obviously could not accept this, so with overwhelming support from the separatists Russia officially backed the secession of Crimea from Ukraine, which by the way it was a russian territory handed to Ukraine by former soviet leader Nikita Khrushov in the 50s.
7. As for NATO, in 1990 the US Secretary of State promissed not to expand NATO eastwards towards Russia. The West deceived Russia when it was weak in the 90s and produced 5 waves of expansion by coming close to the borders of Russia and placing its bases there. That is why now Russia demands the full fulfillment of the conditions from the US and NATO on non-expansion, and the fulfillment of the promises that were given to Russia.
8. USA fear losing its global authority, because Russia is no longer as weak as in the 90s, and China is already in second place in the global economy and is predicted to be in first place in 10 years. That is why the United States is trying to whip up panic in Europe about an allegedly impending attack by the Russians, in order to impose sanctions against Russia under this pretext and weaken its economy.
9. The US is pushing Ukraine to start hostilities against the Donbass in eastern Ukraine because Russia will not tolerate a puppet regime in Kiev killing Russians and fighting back military. And that is when the US will want to declare Russia the agressor.
10. The US is trying its best to cling world domination, fomenting conflicts in order to maintain leadership, but it slips through its fingers like water.

I agree but let's add that not only the US backed the coup but also the EU .NATO has troops and missiles targeting Russia everywhere in Eastern  Europe (what for exactly since NATO is not an offensive organization 

But stupid Gorbatcev did not get a written but only a verbal promise that NATO will not expand on Russia's borders 

Finally in order for anew country actually joins NATO it needs the unanimous buy-in of all 30 member countries and many have opposed Ukraine’s membership, in part because it doesn’t meet the conditions to join.

So what is exactly the US is trying to achieve with this crisis?

 

[karbatal]

5 minutes ago, sotos8 said:

I agree but let's add that not only the US backed the coup but also the EU .NATO has troops and missiles targeting Russia everywhere in Eastern  Europe (what for exactly since NATO is not an offensive organization 

But stupid Gorbatcev did not get a written but only a verbal promise that NATO will not expand on Russia's borders 

Finally in order for anew country actually joins NATO it needs the unanimous buy-in of all 30 member countries and many have opposed Ukraine’s membership, in part because it doesn’t meet the conditions to join.

So what is exactly the US is trying to achieve with this crisis?

 

Resources and blocking Russian gas so USA can sell its corrupt gas obtained by fracking 

[karbatal]

The worst part is that Putin is equally a cunt. There’s not good side in this mess.

[sotos8]

1 minute ago, karbatal said:

The worst part is that Putin is equally a cunt. There’s not good side in this mess.

Of course but it is the US and especially the democrats administration that are so ruthless and putting in danger so many countries including mine because military strategists here in Greece are ''pressuring '' the goverment not to use the NATO base in the north of Greece because in a (god forbid) military conflict Greece will be automatically a Russian target

[elijah]

11 minutes ago, karbatal said:

The worst part is that Putin is equally a cunt. There’s not good side in this mess.

Putin is no comparison to Biden. It’s not Biden amassing troups in Ukraine threatening to invade it, demanding smth off sovereign states, over which he has no power like what organization they should be part of. I m shocked some Europeans do not get it.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, elijah said:

Putin is no comparison to Biden. It’s not Biden amassing troups in Ukraine threatening to invade it, demanding smth off sovereign states, over which he has no power like what organization they should be part of. I m shocked some Europeans do not get it.

I get it.But then again I get that the NATO would betoo close to Russia if Ukraine was part of it, and we all know that NATO never does good things, they are always up to something to become bigger, richer and more powerful.And they don´t give a shit about the people that can die while they are trying to achieve that

[Nessie]

5 hours ago, karbatal said:

The worst part is that Putin is equally a cunt. There’s not good side in this mess.

Exactly. There is no black and white in this mess. The americans always try to put things in defined boxes, good vs. evil, but the factual reality of this conflict is not what the western media is selling, in this case for the americans its all about the Nord Stream 2 that the US wants so badly to shut it down to prevent Germany from breaking away from the american central sphere of influence in Europe. The US is desperately trying to stop Russia to do business with the european countries, so the americans could sell their overpriced LNG gas to blow away the role of Russia as the major gas supplier in Europe and break its economy. As for the russians, they are on a mission to stop NATO expansion at all costs, even if it means a general war in neighbouring Ukraine. This is Russia’s red line and they have had enough of NATO’s empty promises, they know that since 1997 each and almost every former soviet republics have been assimilated by an enemy military force that is dangerously expanding ever closer to the border, in the event of a war there would be no time for Russia to respond a NATO first strike attack. In the past Russia has had a very bad experience with Napoleon and Hitler which almost succeeded to conquer and destroy Russia, the only thing that prevented those foreign invaders to succeed was precisey the huge distance between the enemy forces and the Russian central territory, this security advantage has been lost ever since the advent of long range nuclear missiles, modern conventional ballistic weapons and also the loss of satellite states during the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

[karbatal]

11 hours ago, elijah said:

Putin is no comparison to Biden. It’s not Biden amassing troups in Ukraine threatening to invade it, demanding smth off sovereign states, over which he has no power like what organization they should be part of. I m shocked some Europeans do not get it.

No, USA amassed the troups for the past 30 years surrounding Russia. Which is equally wrong and absurd. And during Cold War they were not shy to stop the souveranity of countries by financing or simply doing themselves military coups to erase any socialist government in Latin America. 
 

Enough with the hypocrisy. Spain for example was for 40 years a dictatorship because it was a far right one. Had it been a socialist one and be sure it would have lasted 10 years.

[karbatal]

11 hours ago, promise to try said:

I get it.But then again I get that the NATO would betoo close to Russia if Ukraine was part of it, and we all know that NATO never does good things, they are always up to something to become bigger, richer and more powerful.And they don´t give a shit about the people that can die while they are trying to achieve that

In fact Zelensky is already asking  NATO for arms. To “defend “ themselves he says. Let’s see how many Ukrainian pro Russian troups and civilians die under those arms which will be supplied by NATO countries. Including our governments.

[Guest CzarnaWisnia]

18 hours ago, Nessie said:

I’m so over of this endless war propaganda. People should get the facts straight before blaming Russia for everything that is going on in Ukraine.

Let it be very clear:

1. More than 70% of the territory of Ukraine is the historical lands of Russia.
2. The city of Kiev is the capital of ancient Russia, which preceded the emergence of Russia more than a thousand years ago.
3. More than 50% of Russian and Russian-speaking citizens live in Ukraine (because Russians historically settled these lands).
4. In 2014, the Nationalists from the west of Ukraine, with the support of the United States, carried out an anti-constitutional armed coup in the country and the United States installed a puppet regime there, which is still under the complete control of the West and the United States, since it is completely dependent on the West financially and in terms of security.
5. The East of Ukraine, which did not agree with the coup in the country, refused to recognize the puppet regime supported by the West, and then this regime sent nationalists east to Donbass to kill Russians-speakers civilians. Russia obviously did not agree with this and backed the separatists.
6. Crimea is a hub and the center of the Russian-speakers from Ukraine and it hosts the biggest Russian naval base outside of Russia mainland. Russia feared that the coup in 2014 could make its military base falls in the hands of NATO. Russia obviously could not accept this, so with overwhelming support from the separatists Russia officially backed the secession of Crimea from Ukraine, which by the way it was a russian territory handed to Ukraine by former soviet leader Nikita Khrushov in the 50s.
7. As for NATO, in 1990 the US Secretary of State promissed not to expand NATO eastwards towards Russia. The West deceived Russia when it was weak in the 90s and produced 5 waves of expansion by coming close to the borders of Russia and placing its bases there. That is why now Russia demands the full fulfillment of the conditions from the US and NATO on non-expansion, and the fulfillment of the promises that were given to Russia.
8. USA fear losing its global authority, because Russia is no longer as weak as in the 90s, and China is already in second place in the global economy and is predicted to be in first place in 10 years. That is why the United States is trying to whip up panic in Europe about an allegedly impending attack by the Russians, in order to impose sanctions against Russia under this pretext and weaken its economy.
9. The US is pushing Ukraine to start hostilities against the Donbass in eastern Ukraine because Russia will not tolerate a puppet regime in Kiev killing Russians and fighting back military. And that is when the US will want to declare Russia the agressor.
10. The US is trying its best to cling world domination, fomenting conflicts in order to maintain leadership, but it slips through its fingers like water.

Exactly. But anti-Russian propaganda has been fed to Americans for years now (see: the MSM). Well-intentioned liberals get whipped up about it without realizing how xenophobia has a lot to do with it. Seeing the Russian (and Chinese) governments with suspicion is fine and good, but the same should be done of one's own government – at all times.

[Guest CzarnaWisnia]

16 hours ago, karbatal said:

There’s not good side in this mess.

That's a key point, not only in this case, but in other international crises, like Syria for instance. People are usually stuck in a simple good vs bad system of thought, I don't know why exactly. 

[Guest CzarnaWisnia]

15 hours ago, Nessie said:

Exactly. There is no black and white in this mess. The americans always try to put things in defined boxes, good vs. evil, but the factual reality of this conflict is not what the western media is selling, in this case for the americans its all about the Nord Stream 2 that the US wants so badly to shut it down to prevent Germany from breaking away from the american central sphere of influence in Europe. The US is desperately trying to stop Russia to do business with the european countries, so the americans could sell their overpriced LNG gas to blow away the role of Russia as the major gas supplier in Europe and break its economy. As for the russians, they are on a mission to stop NATO expansion at all costs, even if it means a general war in neighbouring Ukraine. This is Russia’s red line and they have had enough of NATO’s empty promises, they know that since 1997 each and almost every former soviet republics have been assimilated by an enemy military force that is dangerously expanding ever closer to the border, in the event of a war there would be no time for Russia to respond a NATO first strike attack. In the past Russia has had a very bad experience with Napoleon and Hitler which almost succeeded to conquer and destroy Russia, the only thing that prevented those foreign invaders to succeed was precisey the huge distance between the enemy forces and the Russian central territory, this security advantage has been lost ever since the advent of long range nuclear missiles, modern conventional ballistic weapons and also the loss of satellite states during the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Conspiracist!!!!! 

[runa]

Oh here we are… poor Putin, victim of the bad bad bad Americans.
 

If Russia and China are so great, why don’t you go and live there? 

 

[Camacho]

1 hour ago, runa said:

Oh here we are… poor Putin, victim of the bad bad bad Americans.
 

If Russia and China are so great, why don’t you go and live there? 

 

 Look at this wackjob 

 

[karbatal]

2 hours ago, runa said:

Oh here we are… poor Putin, victim of the bad bad bad Americans.
 

If Russia and China are so great, why don’t you go and live there? 

 

What some of us are trying to explain is that western media is not giving the whole picture AT ALL. I don’t think anybody thinks “poor Putin “. 
 

 

[karbatal]

44 minutes ago, Junior said:

 Look at this wackjob 

 

Omg

[lex92]

2 hours ago, runa said:

Oh here we are… poor Putin, victim of the bad bad bad Americans.
 

If Russia and China are so great, why don’t you go and live there? 

 

Yes. Living in russia is a daily torture for a mayority of people. 

[karbatal]

25 minutes ago, lex92 said:

Yes. Living in russia is a daily torture for a mayority of people. 

Nobody has said the contrary here 

[runa]

28 minutes ago, karbatal said:

What some of us are trying to explain is that western media is not giving the whole picture AT ALL. I don’t think anybody thinks “poor Putin “. 
 

 

Well I completely agree with you that it’s not black or white. I was one of the 1st to say in this thread that Biden is a real assh*le.

But read carefully what some people post here and you’ll realize than yes, they think "poor putin".

I’m sorry but if you were living your happy life in China or Russia, you couldn’t even log on that forum to express yourself. THAT is the reality. THAT is the truth. 

[runa]

1 hour ago, Junior said:

 Look at this wackjob 

 

There’s this rumour, spread by Fox news, saying Trudeau is Castro’s son,  

Talk about being so fucking idiot !!!  I laugh, but it’s not funny because every Fox news watchers think this is true,

[lex92]

22 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Nobody has said the contrary here 

Just wanted to emphasize it since I know (and knew) people who went though hell in russia. And I know people here in Germany (especially in easter Germany) who tend to excuse and relative everything about Putin. So it's important to contrast his supposed legit strategys and acts in foreign policy with his means to reach his goals. He is not a friend of diplomacy right now...and also to contrast it with the domestic policy in russia. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by lex92

[karbatal]

4 minutes ago, lex92 said:

Just wanted to emphasize it since I know (and knew) people who went though hell in russia. And I know people here in Germany (especially in easter Germany) who tend to excuse and relative everything about Putin. So it's important to contrast his supposed legit strategys and acts in foreign policy with his means to reach his goals. He is not a friend of diplomacy right now...and also to contrast it with the domestic policy in russia. 

I know people who had to flee Ukraine because they were Russia speakers and considered themselves Russian. They were ostracized to the point that they went hungry. 
 

Putin is scum. We know. But as many of us have said several times the problem with this issue is that the elites of the other parts are equally scum. 

[Nessie]

51 minutes ago, runa said:

But read carefully what some people post here and you’ll realize than yes, they think "poor putin".

If you read carefully you will just learn some facts that are being deliberately omitted by the western media who simplifies this conflict as a black and white, good and evil struggle.

This situation is not about having pity, Putin is the leader of that country and it is making his intentions very clear, he is using his army on the border to force an agreement, if this will work we will find out very soon.

[Jazzy Jan]

6 hours ago, Junior said:

 Look at this wackjob 

 

 

4 hours ago, runa said:

There’s this rumour, spread by Fox news, saying Trudeau is Castro’s son,  

Talk about being so fucking idiot !!!  I laugh, but it’s not funny because every Fox news watchers think this is true,

I detest these morons who live in democratic countries such as Canada, USA and Australia who go out protesting their lack of “freedom” due to a global pandemic and compare their democratic countries unfavourably to China, North Korea and support Putin etc.  

Can you imagine what would happen to them if they actually protested in China, North Korea or Russia ? 

[Camacho]

 

[karbatal]

Of course the White House has never lied about countries to find excuses to destroy and loot…

[karbatal]

One of the main reasons why conspiracy theories and QAnon spred like fire recently is because of the big amount of lies from official sources. This article takes a worst case scenario, imagined by someone in the CIA, decides it is likely and now the world is to believe it will happen.

Worst case scenario about Madonna biopic is that she smokes weed, casts Gaga as main actress as a joke. So let’s applaud the executive who axes the project…

[sotos8]

3 hours ago, karbatal said:

One of the main reasons why conspiracy theories and QAnon spred like fire recently is because of the big amount of lies from official sources. This article takes a worst case scenario, imagined by someone in the CIA, decides it is likely and now the world is to believe it will happen.

Worst case scenario about Madonna biopic is that she smokes weed, casts Gaga as main actress as a joke. So let’s applaud the executive who axes the project…

xaxaxa ,and since when an intelligence office shares with the world their information?

[Guest CzarnaWisnia]

4 hours ago, karbatal said:

Of course the White House has never lied about countries to find excuses to destroy and loot…

Classified info that streams from the pentagon is always reliable. Basic military strategy is the spread/planting of information and of misinformation. When tensions are built up to the max, one single false info can launch warfare.