New war in Europe, courtesy of Putin

[Guest]

so in which is point is the war now? it seems that puttin is killing civilians, but he has been doing that since the beginning...but no mayor changes seem to be happening, are they? this seems to me that is going to continue for months...

is the rasputitsa happening yet?

[karbatal]

10 minutes ago, promise to try said:

so in which is point is the war now? it seems that puttin is killing civilians, but he has been doing that since the beginning...but no mayor changes seem to be happening, are they? this seems to me that is going to continue for months...

is the rasputitsa happening yet?

They say that Putin doesn’t have the resources to keep killing in new zones and Ukraine doesn’t have the strength to keep defending their country. So it seems that some agreement will be reached.

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, karbatal said:

They say that Putin doesn’t have the resources to keep killing in new zones and Ukraine doesn’t have the strength to keep defending their country. So it seems that some agreement will be reached.

I hope an agreement happens soon, but I don´t believe putin has used all his non nuclear weapons

[Guest CzarnaWisnia]

• Zelensky said he had previously appealed to NATO to be told clearly whether Ukraine could join the alliance. "The response was very clear, you're not going to be a NATO member, but publicly, the doors will remain open," he said.

https://news.yahoo.com/zelensky-ready-negotiations-putin-150015288.html

[dollhouse]

5 hours ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

• Zelensky said he had previously appealed to NATO to be told clearly whether Ukraine could join the alliance. "The response was very clear, you're not going to be a NATO member, but publicly, the doors will remain open," he said.

https://news.yahoo.com/zelensky-ready-negotiations-putin-150015288.html

So Putin didnt have to start a war to achieve this

Why is he fighting then?

[dollhouse]

20 hours ago, promise to try said:

so in which is point is the war now? it seems that puttin is killing civilians, but he has been doing that since the beginning...but no mayor changes seem to be happening, are they? this seems to me that is going to continue for months...

is the rasputitsa happening yet?

The point is to destroy Ukraina and make it as example to Nato what will happen if they dont obey Putins wishes

[dollhouse]

On 3/19/2022 at 3:38 PM, Genevieve Vavance said:

If he loses the war he will definately send missiles to one of the nuclear reactors. I picture him as one of those "if I can't have it neither will you" people.

Nah, i think he will try nucklear bomb to Kiev

[elijah]

45 minutes ago, dollhouse said:

Nah, i think he will try nucklear bomb to Kiev

Thats horrid and unfortunately VERY MUCH in his style 

[Gaudet]

If the actor of the year with his offshore accounts only truly cared about his people instead of trying to drag the rest of the world in a global nuclear suicide, he would have already reached an agreement. 

[Guest CzarnaWisnia]

1 hour ago, Gaudet said:

If the actor of the year with his offshore accounts only truly cared about his people instead of trying to drag the rest of the world in a global nuclear suicide, he would have already reached an agreement. 

If he was a good leader, he would have realized on the first day that the ultimate principle is the preservation of life, not the preservation of land, and that there was no value in fighting a losing battle. I think he just expected NATO countries to flock to UKr.'s defence, which they were never going to do. Sending weapons and other things is for them like sending their wishes, while making a huge profit. The longer this lasts, the more innocent people will die and see their lives ruined for years.

[Jazzy Jan]

6 hours ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

If he was a good leader, he would have realized on the first day that the ultimate principle is the preservation of life, not the preservation of land, and that there was no value in fighting a losing battle. I think he just expected NATO countries to flock to UKr.'s defence, which they were never going to do. Sending weapons and other things is for them like sending their wishes, while making a huge profit. The longer this lasts, the more innocent people will die and see their lives ruined for years.

If some evil dictator invaded Australia and demanded land, I would want my country to fight and not just hand it over. Some suggested at the time in second world war that Australia should divide the country up and give much of it to Japan . Why should the people of Ukraine give up their land to this evil dictator. Why should the people of Ukraine have to accept a control freak who will change their life as their leader ?  The world compromised and did deals with Hitler and look how that worked out. Should Hong Kong and potentially Taiwan just give their freedoms over to China ?  Putin needs to be stopped and that needs to be sooner rather than later 

[Cyber-Raga]

2 minutes ago, Jazzy Jan said:

If some evil dictator invaded Australia and demanded land, I would want my country to fight and not just hand it over. Some suggested at the time in second world war that Australia should divide the country up and give much of it to Japan . Why should the people of Ukraine give up their land to this evil dictator. Why should the people of Ukraine have to accept a control freak who will change their life as their leader ?  The world comprised and did deals with Hitler and look how that worked out. Should Hong Kong and potentially Taiwan just give their freedoms over to China ?  Putin needs to be stopped and that needs to be sooner rather than later 

Amen

[Guest CzarnaWisnia]

1 hour ago, Jazzy Jan said:

If some evil dictator invaded Australia and demanded land, I would want my country to fight and not just hand it over. Some suggested at the time in second world war that Australia should divide the country up and give much of it to Japan . Why should the people of Ukraine give up their land to this evil dictator. Why should the people of Ukraine have to accept a control freak who will change their life as their leader ?  The world comprised and did deals with Hitler and look how that worked out. Should Hong Kong and potentially Taiwan just give their freedoms over to China ?  Putin needs to be stopped and that needs to be sooner rather than later 

It won't be sooner, it will be later, and many more innocents will die.

[Toni]

 

 

[Kilt]

Russian propaganda logic:

1. Russia did not attack Ukraine, but Ukraine must definitely stop defending itself.

2. A special operation is not a war, but economic sanctions are a war.

3. The war began so that the war would not start.

4. Recruits were not sent to Ukraine, but some of them died there.

5. The maternity hospital was bombed because the Nazis were sitting there dressed as pregnant women, but it was still not bombed.

6. The special operation is proceeding according to plan, the troops do not meet resistance, but in 20 days they only managed to capture Kherson and surround Mariupol.

7. All Ukrainian planes were destroyed by missiles at airfields. But 2 weeks later, Ukraine vilely bombed Belarus.

8. You can wish death on Ukrainians on Russian TV, but wishing death on Russian invaders on Facebook is extremism.

9. Russian troops are fighting not with civilians, but with the Nazis. All 40 million Nazis.

[Kilt]

7 hours ago, Toni said:

 

 

russians are the eternal victims and always fearing they will be attacked.

I guess it's national sport over there to amplify these fears and create imaginary enemies. Can't wait for the day to come, when they will declare war against people from Mars.

[Raider of the lost Ark]

I'm not quite clear where Russia wants to go. Let's assume they "win" this war, what will happen then? It is pretty clear that Russia has become a persona non grata of the so called west. The west will not do any business with Russia anymore. What does Russia has to offer anyway except for natural gas, oil and some minerals? And all western countries that import oil and gas from Russia are shifting to other producers and push for renewables. In a few years Russia will no longer have any income from those sources. Russia will be pretty f*cked considering that gas and oil sales make up for the biggest part of the Russian household. By far. Of course, there is still China. Well, only if Russia wants to become a Chinese "colony". Russia may take a closer look at Africa and some of its nations that are already "enjoying" investment and cooperation from China. At this very moment Putin is turning Russia in a 3rd World country. 

[elijah]

21 minutes ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

I'm not quite clear where Russia wants to go. Let's assume they "win" this war, what will happen then? It is pretty clear that Russia has become a persona non grata of the so called west. The west will not do any business with Russia anymore. What does Russia has to offer anyway except for natural gas, oil and some minerals? And all western countries that import oil and gas from Russia are shifting to other producers and push for renewables. In a few years Russia will no longer have any income from those sources. Russia will be pretty f*cked considering that gas and oil sales make up for the biggest part of the Russian household. By far. Of course, there is still China. Well, only if Russia wants to become a Chinese "colony". Russia may take a closer look at Africa and some of its nations that are already "enjoying" investment and cooperation from China. At this very moment Putin is turning Russia in a 3rd World country. 

He DOESNT care about Russia. He wants to rule till he dies. He didn't make Russia prosperous, so his only way to gain support is to shift the attention of the Russians to other topics: wars (Georgia, Cremea, Ukraine), gays etc. That is combined with 24/7 antiWestern propaganda, painting the West as the enemy and Russia as the "encircled" tower. However, in the end, Russia would be killed by Putler and/or China, not the West of course.

[Kilt]

On March 21 Putin had a video conference with Secretary of the Security Council Patrushev, Minister of Defence Shoigu, Chief of the General Staff Gerasimov and Director of the Federal Security Service Bortnikov.

During the discussion of the current situation at the front, the conversation turned to the losses of Russian troops and Gerasimov characterized the losses as "substantial".

Putin interrupted Gerasimov and continued saying that these losses are acceptable and it is nothing compared to the goals that will be achieved after the victory.

New dates of the "victory" set by Putin are April 21 - May 7, by those dates he plans to force Ukrainian authorities to sign the agreement, that he'll be able to present as a capitulation and hold a victory parade on May 9th.

[Kilt]

There are also whispers of Poland being Putin's next target if they don't stop providing Ukraine with military equipment. 

If Putin launches rockets on to Poland, he'll be in for a rude awakening.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Kilt said:

There are also whispers of Poland being Putin's next target if they don't stop providing Ukraine with military equipment. 

If Putin launches rockets on to Poland, he'll be in for a rude awakening.

but isn´t Poland part of the NATO?

if there is another country, I´m afraid it will be moldavia

[Kilt]

42 minutes ago, promise to try said:

but isn´t Poland part of the NATO?

if there is another country, I´m afraid it will be moldavia

No, it's not gonna be Moldova. 

[sotos8]

25 minutes ago, Kilt said:

No, it's not gonna be Moldova. 

have you inside information?

[Kilt]

25 minutes ago, sotos8 said:

have you inside information?

Do you?

They'll need to conquer the Odessa region first to get access through the south western border to the unrecognized Transnistria Republic (under Kremlin's de facto control) which is highly unlikely to happen. 

You can watch Zelenskii's military advisor interview here on the likelihood of Odessa being seized, the Transnistria army being engaged in the Ukrainian invasion and the capacities of that army.

https://fb.watch/bV-qtM7W-a/

Thank me later.

[karbatal]

31 minutes ago, sotos8 said:

have you inside information?

I know

[runa]

On 3/21/2022 at 7:02 PM, Jazzy Jan said:

If some evil dictator invaded Australia and demanded land, I would want my country to fight and not just hand it over. Some suggested at the time in second world war that Australia should divide the country up and give much of it to Japan . Why should the people of Ukraine give up their land to this evil dictator. Why should the people of Ukraine have to accept a control freak who will change their life as their leader ?  The world compromised and did deals with Hitler and look how that worked out. Should Hong Kong and potentially Taiwan just give their freedoms over to China ?  Putin needs to be stopped and that needs to be sooner rather than later 

A bit of sanity, here, thank you very much.

If Russia invaded Canada I would want my country to fight for his sovereignty as much as he can, as long as he can. And of course I will pray for help from my allies. 
 

Putin hasn’t won yet. It’s way more difficult than he thought it would be. Ukrainian men are an inspiration.

[ULIZOS]

3 hours ago, runa said:

A bit of sanity, here, thank you very much.

If Russia invaded Canada I would want my country to fight for his sovereignty as much as he can, as long as he can. And of course I will pray for help from my allies. 
 

Putin hasn’t won yet. It’s way more difficult than he thought it would be. Ukrainian men are an inspiration.

How is this sanity? You're all romanticizing this idea of "fighting to the death". 

Ukraine standing up to Putin is wonderful and inspiring, but also if they WERE to reach a compromise (giving up more regions to Russia / agree not to join NATO / whatever) as a means to end this horrific bloodshed and destruction I wouldn't blame them one bit. 

It's so easy for all of you to say this. You don't have to "pray" for allies, you're part of NATO it will happen automatically. Ukraine is alone.

 

[MadFan]

2 hours ago, ULIZOS said:

but also if they WERE to reach a compromise (giving up more regions to Russia / agree not to join NATO / whatever) as a means to end this horrific bloodshed and destruction I wouldn't blame them one bit.

Which would be their choice to make, as a sovereign nation. I say CHOICE loosely here, obviously. But (and I'm not speaking about you babe), to suggest that that's what they must do, or that Zelenskyy is as much to blame as Putin (again, just referencing some of the rhetoric I've read online) or that he shares the blood of the Ukrainian people with Putin, is outrageous victim blaming. On the micro level, if somebody broke in to my house and I didn't acquiesce my dining room to them and then they shot my family dead, I'm not 'partly responsible', nor is it my failure to compromise.

[Jazzy Jan]

3 hours ago, ULIZOS said:

How is this sanity? You're all romanticizing this idea of "fighting to the death". 

Ukraine standing up to Putin is wonderful and inspiring, but also if they WERE to reach a compromise (giving up more regions to Russia / agree not to join NATO / whatever) as a means to end this horrific bloodshed and destruction I wouldn't blame them one bit. 

It's so easy for all of you to say this. You don't have to "pray" for allies, you're part of NATO it will happen automatically. Ukraine is alone.

 

No one is romanticising this situation. Everyone acknowledges how alone and unsupported they are. It is dreadful and heartbreaking. I wish they had more support and help.  The criticism is more aimed at Putin apologists who always blame the West for everything and expect Ukraine to just hand over their land. 

[Jazzy Jan]

1 hour ago, MadFan said:

Which would be their choice to make, as a sovereign nation. I say CHOICE loosely here, obviously. But (and I'm not speaking about you babe), to suggest that that's what they must do, or that Zelenskyy is as much to blame as Putin (again, just referencing some of the rhetoric I've read online) or that he shares the blood of the Ukrainian people with Putin, is outrageous victim blaming. On the micro level, if somebody broke in to my house and I didn't acquiesce my dining room to them and then they shot my family dead, I'm not 'partly responsible', nor is it my failure to compromise.

The apologists for Putin ( conspiracy theorists are all supporting him ) are staggering in their hatred for Ukraine and also the West.   It is not Ukraine’s fault they have been invaded yet some still decide to support Putin and try to understand him.