Brexit / British politics thread 🤡

[Cyber-Raga]

I’ll be in London and Brighton early next year - for the first time in three years since the beginning of the pandemic, I’m sort of scared lolz. I wonder if England is really as cray cray as I keep reading and hearing about it.
I mean Brexit, Covid, Ukraine, the Queen’s Death, an economy that is in the toilet, a new crazy PM, FEL not hitting #1…a country can only take so much I guess. 

[Kim]

1 hour ago, LSD said:

 

I wouldn't wipe my arse with The Express. Really is the journalistic pits.

1 hour ago, Cyber-Raga said:

I’ll be in London and Brighton early next year - for the first time in three years since the beginning of the pandemic, I’m sort of scared lolz. I wonder if England is really as cray cray as I keep reading and hearing about it.
I mean Brexit, Covid, Ukraine, the Queen’s Death, an economy that is in the toilet, a new crazy PM, FEL not hitting #1…a country can only take so much I guess. 

Just stay away from the riots and you'll be fine!

 

[runa]

2 hours ago, Cyber-Raga said:

I’ll be in London and Brighton early next year - for the first time in three years since the beginning of the pandemic, I’m sort of scared lolz. I wonder if England is really as cray cray as I keep reading and hearing about it.
I mean Brexit, Covid, Ukraine, the Queen’s Death, an economy that is in the toilet, a new crazy PM, FEL not hitting #1…a country can only take so much I guess. 

 @ FEL not hitting #1

 

[karbatal]

Actually the demise of Britain started since they turned their back to Madonna. 

[promise to try]

50 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Actually the demise of Britain started since they turned their back to Madonna. 

and the demise of Italy since rafaella passed away!

[karbatal]

Hello 

 

[karbatal]

Oh and not only Madonna revisits classics. Tory UK just released a new version of Let Them Eat Cake.

 

[horn]

* cough *

Truss Backs Kwarteng Even After Humiliating U-Turn on UK Tax Cut

• Chancellor Kwarteng says proposal had become a ‘distraction’
• Decision to scrap 45% tax rate had contributed to market rout

By Alex Morales and Kitty Donaldson | October 3, 2022

Liz Truss is standing by her Chancellor of the Exchequer Kwasi Kwarteng after the threat of a rebellion in the ruling party forced them into a humiliating reversal on a plan to cut taxes for the top earners in the UK.

Kwarteng announced the decision in a tweet early Monday, saying “we get it, and we have listened.” He said the plan announced just 10 days ago to scrap the 45% rate of income tax had become a “distraction.”

The pound jumped as much as 1% before giving up some of those gains, trading 0.4% higher against the dollar at 12:05 p.m. in London.

The U-turn is a major embarrassment for Truss and Kwarteng. They’ve spent days defending the chancellor’s Sept. 23 fiscal statement, with Truss saying on Sunday that she was committed to the package. Kwarteng was due to say his party should “stay the course” and that the plan was “the right one” in his speech to the Tory Party’s annual conference in Birmingham on Monday.

Truss’s spokesman, Max Blain, told reporters on Monday that the premier retains confidence in her chancellor, who’s scheduled to give what will now have to be a different speech shortly after 4 p.m.

Even so, the reversal on such a major policy just a month into their tenure will inevitably spark speculation about both Truss’s and Kwarteng’s future. While the chancellor told the BBC he hadn’t considered resigning over the issue, the tax cut was a signature part of their economic approach. Within the Tory party, the pair are viewed as a political double-act who have spent years calling for deregulation and low taxes and were preparing to put that into practice.

Yet the market and political fallout last week was dramatic, and already talk in the party is about whether Truss and Kwarteng can hold on. Former cabinet minister Grant Shapps, sacked by Truss when she formed her top team, told the broadcaster: “I want the PM to survive.”

Backing Down
Other Conservatives, including Tobias Ellwood and Andrew Bowie, took to Twitter to welcome the reversal. In an interview with Times Radio, former cabinet minister Michael Gove -- who had become an unofficial recruiting sergeant for unhappy Tories -- indicated he would back the overall package now that the tax cut for top earners had been removed.

Kwarteng’s package, dubbed the government’s “growth plan,” represented the biggest set of unfunded tax cuts in half a century. It sparked a market rout, sending the pound to an all-time low against the dollar and forcing the Bank of England into a dramatic intervention to stave off a gilt market crash. 

In a round of broadcast interviews on Monday, Kwarteng sought to deflect the blame for the UK market reactions onto global forces, and in particular rising US interest rates. He pushed back against the idea that his policies had led to a “Kwarteng premium” on mortgages.

Blaming Others
“High interest rates have been driven by the Fed all year,” Kwarteng said. “What that has meant is that there’s a strong dollar and also other banks are putting up interest rates to follow.”

With the tax cut representing just a small percentage of the tax cuts announced by Kwarteng, questions still remain as to how he’ll pay for them. Ministers have been hinting at potential cuts to welfare payments.

Kwarteng is due to make a medium-term fiscal statement on Nov. 23, alongside publishing a set of economic forecasts from the Office for Budget Responsibility. 

The scrapping of the 45% rate for the highest earners had been the least popular measure, coming at a time when ordinary Britons are struggling in a cost-of-living crisis that’s seen inflation surge to 40-year highs. 

Unfair
That -- alongside the scrapping of a cap on bankers’ bonuses -- had fueled the perception that the Tories were looking after the interests of the rich. It had also sent the party plummeting in the polls, a record 33 points behind Keir Starmer’s Labour Party.

Rumblings of discontent had also been growing within the Tories, with Gove telling the BBC that removing the top rate of income tax for the highest earners was the wrong decision and indicated he would not support it.

Much of the Tory opposition stemmed from two fears: that the tax cuts will be funded by borrowing at a time the government is already increasing debt levels to help Britons with soaring energy bills; and that the reduction in the top rate of income tax looks like the government is prioritizing the wealthiest earners over those on lower incomes.

On Monday, Kwarteng told the BBC that the abolition of the 45% rate “was drowning out the elements of an excellent plan.”

But pressure points in the plans still remain, with Truss’s spokesman confirming that the government is going ahead with scrapping the cap on bankers’ bonuses. Ministers have also spent days hinting that benefits would no longer rise in inflation -- a promise made by Boris Johnson’s administration -- as the government looks for savings to pay for its plans. 

That threatens another major political row. In an interview with Bloomberg TV, Work and Pensions Secretary Chloe Smith said no decision has been taken.

“The Tories have destroyed their economic credibility and damaged trust in the British economy,” Labour’s Shadow Chancellor Rachel Reeves said in a statement. “This is not over -- it’s not just some distraction. The Tories need to reverse their whole economic, discredited trickle-down strategy.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-03/uk-s-truss-set-to-abandon-plan-to-scrap-45-tax-rate-bbc-says

[Kim]

if they don't get rid of Dizzy and backtrack completely on their disastrous economic plan, they're toast. 

Even though this walk was performative theatre from Mogg, it's representative of what's to come...

 

[karbatal]

5 minutes ago, Kim said:

if they don't get rid of Dizzy and backtrack completely on their disastrous economic plan, they're toast. 

Even though this walk was performative theatre from Mogg, it's representative of what's to come...

 

10 years ago amidst the crisis of Greece, Spain and such and the total mess of eurozone policy, the think tanks alerted that social revolutions were the main risk of the EU. So politics started to change and cuttings relaxed. No wonder the EU nowadays is creating taxes to the rich and creating taxes for banks and energy companies. Because it is the only way to stop a social revolution. I wouldn’t be surprised if some new left party is created in UK as answer to this total mess, as it happened in Spain or Greece. 

[Kim]

16 minutes ago, karbatal said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if some new left party is created in UK as answer to this total mess, as it happened in Spain or Greece. 

While media barons still control the narrative, that won't be allowed to happen. The moment it became a possibility with Corbyn, they went into overdrive to destroy it. A recent doc by Al Jazeera called The Labour Files goes into detail about it.

Labour in its new centre-right incarnation will get in again, will put some investment into public services, a fiscal event will spook everyone at some point then the Tories will come back again. Rinse & repeat.

[Kim]

Either her dressmaker taking the piss or she really is a complete psycho copying the look of the ultra fascist PM in Years & Years. Vile woman!

[karbatal]

1 hour ago, Kim said:

Either her dressmaker taking the piss or she really is a complete psycho copying the look of the ultra fascist PM in Years & Years. Vile woman!

Omg 

[promise to try]

when I see these news I feel that brexit was a good idea for the rest of europe. Of course, the rest of countries are full of shit too

[karbatal]

2 hours ago, promise to try said:

when I see these news I feel that brexit was a good idea for the rest of europe. Of course, the rest of countries are full of shit too

Uk was always boycotting the EU just like nowadays Poland and Hungary are being assholes. The UK was always moaning and always getting special treatment. If they ever want to join again unless they get incredibly rich or have something very valuable to offer they will join the club with far worse conditions.

[Kim]

31 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Uk was always boycotting the EU just like nowadays Poland and Hungary are being assholes. The UK was always moaning and always getting special treatment. If they ever want to join again unless they get incredibly rich or have something very valuable to offer they will join the club with far worse conditions.

There's only one pro EU party left and that's the SNP, the rest are too scared to even mention the word Brexit nevermind anything else, so there's no chance of that happening anytime soon.

Anyway, I wonder who this one r***d? Must have been really bad for them to get rid of him completely...

 

[Lolo]

On 10/7/2022 at 8:54 PM, karbatal said:

Uk was always boycotting the EU just like nowadays Poland and Hungary are being assholes. The UK was always moaning and always getting special treatment. If they ever want to join again unless they get incredibly rich or have something very valuable to offer they will join the club with far worse conditions.

Time to start a new European alliance with countries willing to work together and see the bigger picture. 

[karbatal]

4 hours ago, Lolo said:

Time to start a new European alliance with countries willing to work together and see the bigger picture. 

The thing is that things can change so radically regarding countries depending on who is in government that it’s not even possible to do that. I think a new Treaty is due (I think the Lisbon Treaty was the last one and it was in 2007) to put in black and white specific rules regarding social protection, wealth distribution, gay marriage, etc etc. We need something close to a EU Constitution that guarantees human rights and a fair society. 

[karbatal]

I mean it’s 2022 and gay marriage is still not allowed in some EU countries, which is appalling.

[Kim]

Compassionate queen. Yer "Labour" party were complaining last week the govt weren't deporting ppl fast enough, to put this into context.

Just who are the "nationalists" here?...

 

[elijah]

3 hours ago, karbatal said:

The thing is that things can change so radically regarding countries depending on who is in government that it’s not even possible to do that. I think a new Treaty is due (I think the Lisbon Treaty was the last one and it was in 2007) to put in black and white specific rules regarding social protection, wealth distribution, gay marriage, etc etc. We need something close to a EU Constitution that guarantees human rights and a fair society. 

Its so long OVERDUE. However countries like Poland & Hungary would do their best to sabotage something like this. Practically I dont know how some fundamental reforms should be enforced. I guess the only option is Europe on two speed: only the willing EU countries who want will participate. Like what happened with EU prosecutor. But the benefits for the participating should be bigger also...

[elijah]

3 hours ago, karbatal said:

I mean it’s 2022 and gay marriage is still not allowed in some EU countries, which is appalling.

For certain fake "conservative" countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Hungary and Poland the only option is ENFORCING this from the top down. The people otherwise would never vote for it, because the Putin propaganda (antiWest, antilgbtq) is HUGE and has been implemented for almost a decade (after the Ukraine Maidan). I m saying fake conservative, because its OK to drink, sleep with many people, party like its your last UNLESS its gay. Thats the fucked up mentality.

[elijah]

2 hours ago, Kim said:

Compassionate queen. Yer "Labour" party were complaining last week the govt weren't deporting ppl fast enough, to put this into context.

Just who are the "nationalists" here?...

 

Why there are so LITTLE politicians like her? Scotland should immediately exit UK, reenter EU and Nicola be crowned Queen of Europe. Its only fair.

[Kim]

56 minutes ago, elijah said:

Why there are so LITTLE politicians like her? Scotland should immediately exit UK, reenter EU and Nicola be crowned Queen of Europe. Its only fair.

Well funnily enough, the Supreme Court case to see if they can hold a referendum without Westminster 'consent' just started today and if they (as I suspect they will) say we can't (just the thought of Scotland leaving with its oil, gas and renewables will scare them to death) then you have a country in a 'voluntary union' unable to get out of that union, so what do we do then?...

[Jazzy Jan]

On 10/7/2022 at 2:11 AM, Kim said:

Either her dressmaker taking the piss or she really is a complete psycho copying the look of the ultra fascist PM in Years & Years. Vile woman!

OMG.  Years and years was such a terrifying and brilliant series.  Emma Thompson was brilliant as the ignorant and cruel fascist who become PM.  Seeing her wearing such a similar dress is beyond the pale.  

[elijah]

8 minutes ago, Kim said:

Well funnily enough, the Supreme Court case to see if they can hold a referendum without Westminster 'consent' just started today and if they (as I suspect they will) say we can't (just the thought of Scotland leaving with its oil, gas and renewables will scare them to death) then you have a country in a 'voluntary union' unable to get out of that union, so what do we do then?...

I dont understand the UK system really. UK on theory is made up of 4 people (nations) yet Westminster (England) must give its "consent" for something so important for one of the other nations... Weird. Also the last vote was 2014, prior to Fuxit, so it shouldn't even be counted, because I m sure many Scotts voted to remain within UK, because otherwise they would have exited EU and would have to have applied again.

[Kim]

5 minutes ago, elijah said:

I dont understand the UK system really. UK on theory is made up of 4 people (nations) yet Westminster (England) must give its "consent" for something so important for one of the other nations... Weird. Also the last vote was 2014, prior to Fuxit, so it shouldn't even be counted, because I m sure many Scotts voted to remain within UK, because otherwise they would have exited EU and would have to have applied again.

It's a democratic outrage, really.

[karbatal]

26 minutes ago, elijah said:

I dont understand the UK system really. UK on theory is made up of 4 people (nations) yet Westminster (England) must give its "consent" for something so important for one of the other nations... Weird. Also the last vote was 2014, prior to Fuxit, so it shouldn't even be counted, because I m sure many Scotts voted to remain within UK, because otherwise they would have exited EU and would have to have applied again.

Because it is NEVER a union of kingdoms or people. It is ALWAYS conquering. But the lie it’s repeated for centuries. Just like in Spain they say Castilla and Aragon were united when in fact it was a conquest that lasted one century. I guess it’s the same in UK.

[Kim]

9 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Because it is NEVER a union of kingdoms or people. It is ALWAYS conquering. But the lie it’s repeated for centuries. Just like in Spain they say Castilla and Aragon were united when in fact it was a conquest that lasted one century. I guess it’s the same in UK.

Well this was a case of good old fashioned blackmail, bribery and... game of thrones. I condensed this synopsis from elsewhere but it may be of interest to history buffs...

From the Union of the Crowns in 1603, Scotland and England had one monarch but two Parliaments. Just prior to the reign of Queen Anne (1702-1707), the Act of Settlement (1701) was passed in England to ensure a Protestant succession, decreeing the crown should go via the Electress of Hanover, the German granddaughter of James I, and her Protestant heirs. The Scots Parliament made plain their resentment, proclaiming the deposed Stuart line had a stronger claim on the throne and passed an Act of Security (1704) that stated the Scottish Parliament had the right to decide who would be Queen Anne's successor. London, determined there should never again be a Catholic monarch, and wary of a growing alliance between Scotland and France, saw the removal of the Scottish Parliament as a way of achieving this.

In February 1705 the English Parliament passed the Alien Act, a form of economic blackmail, stating that if the Scots did not recognize the Hanoverian succession and if they did not take steps towards Union, Scots in England would be treated as aliens and Anglo-Scottish trade would be suspended

There were a number of poor harvests in Scotland in the late 1690s and its economic position was worsened by the ill-fated Darien Scheme to create a Scottish colony in Panama. The Alien Act closed the biggest market to Scottish cattle, coal and linen and Scots were to be excluded from England's colonial territories. The threat of economic embargo was so serious that the Scottish Parliament accepted to enter negotiations with the English Parliament. The proposed Act of Union undertook to pay 400,000 pounds in compensation to those who had incurred losses from the Darien Scheme with the majority of those benefiting being the Lords and lawmakers persuaded to vote in favour of the new Union. The idea was vastly unpopular among ordinary Scots and the allegations of bribery caused outrage, but most at that time did not have a vote.

In 1707, a commission met and thrashed out the details. The Scots lost the argument for a federal arrangement but did manage to secure the continuation of the Scottish legal system, education and church. Debates in the Scottish Parliament were heated and lengthy while crowds in the streets rioted, burned copies of the treaty and threw stones at the Parliament windows. A mob held the city of Glasgow for a month. But on January 16, 1707, the Treaty of Union was passed by 110 votes to 67 (with more than a suspicion that some of the poorer MPs had also been bribed - though this was nothing new for those days). The Treaty was passed in Westminster without opposition and the Scottish Parliament met for the last time on 25 March 1707.

When the Act of Union was given the Royal Assent by the Earl of Seafield, he touched the document with the royal sceptre saying "There's the end of an auld sang." Nearly 300 years later, at the 're-convening' of the Parliament in Edinburgh in 1999, the Presiding Officer was to remark that it was the "start of a new sang"....

[Alpha]

Still can't believe Boris was elected Prime Minister, following the Brexit mess.  I have such a love/hate relationship with the UK, sad as I think most people are good, just influenced by idiots/sneaky people.