The European elections June 6th

[Sanctuary1995]

I’m afraid the right wing is getting stronger in the EU

What r u voting for? 

 

[sotos8]

36 % of voters 18-24 in France will vote for far right ,31 % in Holland and 21% in Germany .Apparently the masterminds in Europe can't hear the bells that are ringing for quite some time

[elijah]

I d vote so that the far right is contained. The rise of the far right in Europe is scary. It doesn't bode well for EU future. The far right parties are sponsored by Putin in their majority. The lessons of WW2 are forgotten. Some change in EU policy is needed so that the rise of the far right is escaped. Maybe the migration policy should change.

[cardiganstarlet]

On 6/4/2024 at 12:16 AM, sotos8 said:

36 % of voters 18-24 in France will vote for far right ,31 % in Holland and 21% in Germany .Apparently the masterminds in Europe can't hear the bells that are ringing for quite some time

Do they say why? The rise of the right has been happening for sometime but has steadily increased in the last 5 years. I’m a little surprised that there’s such a strong percentage in a young cohort that have grown up in countries with progressive health and education policies, compared with the US.

[alquemist]

We. Are. Fucked. I've been so depressed all day long.

black = Christian conservatives (CDU)

blue = far-right "alternative for Germany" (AfD)

Thank God I live in one of the few bright spots on this map, but God, we're all part of the bigger picture and even though many saw it coming I am quite concerned.

 

[Confessit]

4 hours ago, alquemist said:

We. Are. Fucked. I've been so depressed all day long.

black = Christian conservatives (CDU)

blue = far-right "alternative for Germany" (AfD)

Thank God I live in the few bright spots on this map, but God, we're all part of the bigger picture and even though many saw it coming I am quite concerned.

 

France is heading the same right wing way 

[promise to try]

how important has the war in ucraine been in this election??? I mean, not here, but probably in the easter countries, it has been. Also, the green party, well, the german green party is with Israel in the genozide, aren`´t they? so maybe...

[Confessit]

24 minutes ago, promise to try said:

how important has the war in ucraine been in this election??? I mean, not here, but probably in the easter countries, it has been. Also, the green party, well, the german green party is with Israel in the genozide, aren`´t they? so maybe...

I’ve been thinking the same.

My country is out of the EU now so we don’t get much coverage 

[Raider of the lost Ark]

4 hours ago, promise to try said:

how important has the war in ucraine been in this election??? I mean, not here, but probably in the easter countries, it has been. Also, the green party, well, the german green party is with Israel in the genozide, aren`´t they? so maybe...

The green party pays heavily for mistakes made in relation to climate laws. I think it was two years ago when a strategy paper was leaked that basically said that from 2024 all natural gas and oil heating has to be disabled in private homes and only heat pumps would be allowed. Millions of people saw they living standards fading away or even personal ruin because the prospect of such law meant investments from 15.000 to 45.000 (and more) for the heat pump alone (depending on the system) plus several 10.000 more in case you have an old house and you will need to have new windows, new insulation for the facade, the roof to make your house as energy effective as possible. Furthermore where do you get millions of heat pumps and where are the companies to install millions of those systems within this short period? It was a massive communication desaster because it took the government an eternity to react to the news and set the record straight that the timeline is absolutely false. Older people made them pay for this. Younger people (people from 16 were allowed to vote) made them pay because from their perspective the green party did not deliver when it came to new laws in regards to climate change. Interestingly many of those kids thought it would be a good idea to vote far-right. Idiots! 

[Raider of the lost Ark]

Israel / Hamas wasn't a big issue in Germany. It was more about peace in Europe and the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Unfortunately people voted for Putins ass lickers from the far-right (AFD) and the far-left (BSW). So disgusting. A few years ago people with the mindset of the AFD would have told you how Soviet soldiers raped German women at the end and after WW2. Historically this is true but they didn't bring it up as a hisory lesson. It was meant to create hate towards Russian people. The other party is led by a communist megalomaniac who founded this new party merely some months ago by splitting from the left party. Of course she named the party after herself. Unfortunately this woman is the typical case of "what happened to her". Up until a few years ago, she was well respected in her views and knowledge in economics. In fact, she warned early on about many things turbo-capitalism would create and what this would mean socially for workers and for society. Much of what she said became true. Unfortunately she turned into this Putin loving person who blames basically NATO, the U.S., Germany, well basically everyone except Putin for the current situation. Both parties would hand over Ukraine in a heart beat. Of course, they don't say that loud. 

[promise to try]

thank you raider!!!! I don´t know if the rest of the countries are better informed, but we don´t have good information about what´s happening in the rest of europe. Maybe we have more info about France, but not that much either.

[Confessit]

On 6/12/2024 at 6:56 AM, promise to try said:

thank you raider!!!! I don´t know if the rest of the countries are better informed, but we don´t have good information about what´s happening in the rest of europe. Maybe we have more info about France, but not that much either.

We don’t get to know much either since we left the European Union.

 

[elijah]

What is happening in Germany is troubling as it has been for 50 years a beacon for democracy. Western part still kind of is. It’s the economic heart of EU, so all should be concerned. Obviously hate wins in the Eastern part and I am unfortunately not shocked. Much of Eastern Europe is still very much lagging behind Western Europe and people blame everyone but their society. Add to that the hybrid warfare of RU glorifying communism, conservatism, attacking lgbtq people and migrants and you get the picture, it is serving the people the reason why they are not doing that great. On EU level it seems the ultra right is contained, but Ger, Aus, Fr, NL- all are going pretty right and this last happened in the 20ties and the 30ties and we know how that went. The ruling parties are also to be blamed - they have done a lot of stupid things while not doing vital things expected of them. I wonder how EU would turn up in 10-15 years…

[Confessit]

1 minute ago, elijah said:

What is happening in Germany is troubling as it has been for 50 years a beacon for democracy. Western part still kind of is. It’s the economic heart of EU, so all should be concerned. Obviously hate wins in the Eastern part and I am unfortunately not shocked. Much of Eastern Europe is still very much lagging behind Western Europe and people blame everyone but their society. Add to that the hybrid warfare of RU glorifying communism, conservatism, attacking lgbtq people and migrants and you get the picture, it is serving the people the reason why they are not doing that great. On EU level it seems the ultra right is contained, but Ger, Aus, Fr, NL- all are going pretty right and this last happened in the 20ties and the 30ties and we know how that went. The ruling parties are also to be blamed - they have done a lot of stupid things while not doing vital things expected of them. I wonder how EU would turn up in 10-15 years…

Do you think any countries will follow the UK and possibly have referendums to ask the people if they still want in?

 

[elijah]

1 hour ago, Confessit said:

Do you think any countries will follow the UK and possibly have referendums to ask the people if they still want in?

I don't see it, because first all the other states are smaller and poorer (not per capita, but as a whole) than UK (minus GER and France) and would face much bigger challenges than UK if they have to renegotiate their trade with EU and the world... It would basically be harming yourself. GER is benefiting from EU economically and the other states are benefitting economically and otherwise from GER so I don't see it. FR is the weaker link, because altright could win there, but probably the consideration that the economic benefits are big would prevail. FR could though drastically change EU and make it really weak and insignificant. GER+FR are the essential states. Also, UK is doing bad post Brexit and all economists are saying it would have been much better if it was still within EU. So I don't really see it. The most possible exiters are either NL or Denmark, but they will loose the most if they exit. However I m seeing the other scenario as much more possible: EU on different speed, which means some states would be left out and will not be as integrated as the others. The first state which everyone would gladly left out of all the policies would be Hungary and rightfully so. However I could see some kind of a club forming within the club, probably consisting of EURO states or GER, FR, NL, BEL, LUX doing much more together. Which will be bad. A simple majority for most of the EU decisions is a must (especially in foreign affairs and some other social issues), but many states are opposing it. If ultraright prevails throughout Europe and especially in GER and FR I could see a weaker, disintegrated EU looming. I hope it wont get to that. EU must become stronger, more integrated, with faster decision making, real common foreign policy and possibly even common economy. 

[Confessit]

22 minutes ago, elijah said:

I don't see it, because first all the other states are smaller and poorer (not per capita, but as a whole) than UK (minus GER and France) and would face much bigger challenges than UK if they have to renegotiate their trade with EU and the world... It would basically be harming yourself. GER is benefiting from EU economically and the other states are benefitting economically and otherwise from GER so I don't see it. FR is the weaker link, because altright could win there, but probably the consideration that the economic benefits are big would prevail. FR could though drastically change EU and make it really weak and insignificant. GER+FR are the essential states. Also, UK is doing bad post Brexit and all economists are saying it would have been much better if it was still within EU. So I don't really see it. The most possible exiters are either NL or Denmark, but they will loose the most if they exit. However I m seeing the other scenario as much more possible: EU on different speed, which means some states would be left out and will not be as integrated as the others. The first state which everyone would gladly left out of all the policies would be Hungary and rightfully so. However I could see some kind of a club forming within the club, probably consisting of EURO states or GER, FR, NL, BEL, LUX doing much more together. Which will be bad. A simple majority for most of the EU decisions is a must (especially in foreign affairs and some other social issues), but many states are opposing it. If ultraright prevails throughout Europe and especially in GER and FR I could see a weaker, disintegrated EU looming. I hope it wont get to that. EU must become stronger, more integrated, with faster decision making, real common foreign policy and possibly even common economy. 

Oh I quite agree.

If France or Germany left or would all be over for the EU that’s where the money comes from.

[Lolo]

On 6/12/2024 at 1:09 AM, Raider of the lost Ark said:

The other party is led by a communist megalomaniac who founded this new party merely some months ago by splitting from the left party. Of course she named the party after herself. Unfortunately this woman is the typical case of "what happened to her". Up until a few years ago, she was well respected in her views and knowledge in economics. In fact, she warned early on about many things turbo-capitalism would create and what this would mean socially for workers and for society. Much of what she said became true. Unfortunately she turned into this Putin loving person who blames basically NATO, the U.S., Germany, well basically everyone except Putin for the current situation.

I know! I used to really like her, I even read one of her books some years ago. What I hate most about her endeavors is she proved the ‚Hufeisen Theorie‘ right, which I always agitated against. I’m a classic leftie and she destroyed my faith in most of what i believed in. I suspect my parents voted for her, the endless discussions we had give me the impression, it’s that Facebook nonsense that 60+ lefties love to blubber about. Ruined every family gathering since Feb 2022. I hate it so much. 

[Raider of the lost Ark]

7 hours ago, elijah said:

What is happening in Germany is troubling as it has been for 50 years a beacon for democracy. Western part still kind of is. It’s the economic heart of EU, so all should be concerned. Obviously hate wins in the Eastern part and I am unfortunately not shocked. Much of Eastern Europe is still very much lagging behind Western Europe and people blame everyone but their society. 

But interestingly, the (organized) hate does not neccessarily come from the East. Basically all higher ups in the AFD are "imported" from the West. And while the Eastern states are generally not as well off than the Western ones (although it's more a regional thing nowadays, there are Western states that are worse off than East Germany) it's not like people have to suffer. No one needs to suffer in Germany thanks to its generous social system. To uncover the lies of the AFD in regards to immigrants and asylumn seekers, just ask them the simple question: "How much money did authorities cut from your social security payments you are entitled to (in case you are out of work) or have your taxes been raised because of immigrants ...?" No such things happened. Therefore claiming immigrants etc. are responsible for their declining living standards is complete bullshit. There is no increase in crime as well. The most stupid thing of all, based on the proposed policies of the AFD, their very own voters will be affected the most. They will cut social security and will basically force you to work (sounds familiar?). They will try to diminish workers rights. Etc. So for all the unemployed and low income people who voted for the AFD, they will suffer from their very own decision. 

As you mentioned Russian warfare. Well, they already planted the seeds in the early nineties when approx. 1 million so called Russian-Germans migrated into Germany because they claimed German heritage and alleged discrimination in Russia back then. Even in the 90s, Germans were making evil jokes about the situation saying that their German heritage was a German sheperd they owned at some point. It was very clear that they were coming for economic reasons. And they were let in with open arms by the CDU government under Helmut Kohl. Why? Kohl and the CDU were about to lose the next general elections and they knew those Russian-Germans are very conservative and will vote for them because of their values and out of gratitude. Needless to say, Kohl and the CDU won. Did those people integrate well into German society? A minority did. The majority is still living among themselves, speaking only Russian and are an integral part of Russian propaganda lately. And of course, they vote AFD. By the way, people should have a closer look to Israel and where all the ultra-orthodox Jews and most settlers come from. Most of them moved from Russia as well (where they were discriminated against, allegedly). 

[Raider of the lost Ark]

1 hour ago, Lolo said:

I know! I used to really like her, I even read one of her books some years ago. What I hate most about her endeavors is she proved the ‚Hufeisen Theorie‘ right, which I always agitated against. I’m a classic leftie and she destroyed my faith in most of what i believed in. I suspect my parents voted for her, the endless discussions we had give me the impression, it’s that Facebook nonsense that 60+ lefties love to blubber about. Ruined every family gathering since Feb 2022. I hate it so much. 

Oh no. What an unpleasant situation. I'm so grateful that I haven't had this experience yet. Saving grace might be that almost none of my family is into social media and is therefore shielded from the biggest nonsense. Although my father sometimes makes comments regarding certain politicians (Annalena and Kevin) that sound like some pesky conspiracy and I wonder where this is coming from. I suspect his Skat "brothers". I just tell him to stop it because it's all bullshit. Well, I guess this is what Russian propaganda and Russian support of right-wing parties is meant to do. Creating dissent within families, among friends and colleagues and in the end destroying the society we had for quite some time because people suddenly start to question democracy. And all of this because of lies and manipulation. What is shocking to me, is that there are som many useful idiots. 

[Lolo]

15 hours ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

Oh no. What an unpleasant situation. I'm so grateful that I haven't had this experience yet. Saving grace might be that almost none of my family is into social media and is therefore shielded from the biggest nonsense. Although my father sometimes makes comments regarding certain politicians (Annalena and Kevin) that sound like some pesky conspiracy and I wonder where this is coming from. I suspect his Skat "brothers". I just tell him to stop it because it's all bullshit. Well, I guess this is what Russian propaganda and Russian support of right-wing parties is meant to do. Creating dissent within families, among friends and colleagues and in the end destroying the society we had for quite some time because people suddenly start to question democracy. And all of this because of lies and manipulation. What is shocking to me, is that there are som many useful idiots. 

I’m mostly worried about the fact so many young people voted for AfD. Do you support that 16 year olds are eligible to vote? I think it’s a dumb idea as long as there’s still no control whatsoever over social media platforms. 

[Sanctuary1995]

It’s all fucking fucked… on the one side fundamentalist Muslims who take advantage of the western democracies and on the other the right wing motherfuckers who want to cleanse the population from the undesirable elements. Us gays are fucked… and not in a horny way 

[Confessit]

10 minutes ago, Sanctuary1995 said:

It’s all fucking fucked… on the one side fundamentalist Muslims who take advantage of the western democracies and on the other the right wing motherfuckers who want to cleanse the population from the undesirable elements. Us gays are fucked… and not in a horny way 

I know what you mean.

They are the one religion that appears to want to exists outside the country they live ins laws.

They feel they are entitled to a different set of laws.

In my country in the U.K. several muslim schools are now actively out of the national curriculum because it promotes and teaches about same sex relationships.

Muslim parents said no way is it happening and those schools have now taken out those classes every other school in the U.K. teach, because it doesn’t match what Muslims want their children to be taught.

It flys in the face of the law for everyone else.

[Sanctuary1995]

One thing I don’t fucking understand, why is it allowed for just anyone to open a school? 
 

I’ve heard that Finland has the best education in the world, I wonder do they allow just any clown to set up an educational facility?

[elijah]

2 hours ago, Confessit said:

I know what you mean.

They are the one religion that appears to want to exists outside the country they live ins laws.

They feel they are entitled to a different set of laws.

In my country in the U.K. several muslim schools are now actively out of the national curriculum because it promotes and teaches about same sex relationships.

Muslim parents said no way is it happening and those schools have now taken out those classes every other school in the U.K. teach, because it doesn’t match what Muslims want their children to be taught.

It flys in the face of the law for everyone else.

They should be obliged to teach those classes. They are operating in UK, not in Saudi Arabia. I m sure Saudi Arabia wouldn't allow a western school in its borders to teach about LGBTQ rights or even Christianity. All students should be equal. If the parents don't want their children to be taught about LGBTQ rights, they should send them to study in homophobic countries. God knows those are the majority in the world.

[Confessit]

2 minutes ago, elijah said:

They should be obliged to teach those classes. They are operating in UK, not in Saudi Arabia. I m sure Saudi Arabia wouldn't allow a western school in its borders to teach about LGBTQ right or even Christianity. All students should be equal. If the parents don't want their children to teach about LGBTQ rights, they should send them to study in homophobic countries. God knows those are the majority in the world.

 agree.

But they are getting away with it and it’s totally wrong.

Like you say in their country’s you have no choice you have to adhere by the law.

Nobody is above the law we are all subject to it you can’t have your own set of rules.

It actually gives Islam a bad name. It’s dogmatic.

[jonski43]

But this is what happens when you get the left wing parties promoting multiculturalism for the last thirty years!

Personally, I think all schools should be secular. Religion should be taught in the home. 

Any kind of extreme behaviour should be dealt with quickly be it religious, political or social. 

Edited June 23 by jonski43

[Raider of the lost Ark]

27 minutes ago, jonski43 said:

But this is what happens when you get the left wing parties promoting multiculturalism for the last thirty years!

Personally, I think all schools should be secular. Religion should be taught in the home. 

Any kind of extreme behaviour should be dealt with quickly be it religious, political or social. 

I don't mind if there are catholic schools or whatever. Of course, their courses still need to be approved by government to make sure students get a humanist education and they are not teaching some radical stuff and to make sure that once students leave for college or university are prepared for their studies there. So it's bascially about standards in general. If parents send their children to one of those schools, they know what they get into. But public schools should not have to deal with religion unless it is in history or social studies. A public school is not supposed to be a place to practise your religion, whatever that religion is. Stop such things as prayer groups, prayer rooms. Stop excusing (muslim) girls from swimming lessons because there are boys around. 

I want full separation of church and state. I want all crucifixes and other religious symbols out of public buildings. I want all staff in public jobs, no matter if you are a cleaner or the director of a huge organization to abstain from wearing anyting that has to do with religion. I want religion out from everything the general public supports financially through paying taxes. There is freedom of religion and that is perfectly fine. But religion shall be a private matter. A state, a government has to set rules that respect the interest of all it is citizens without prejudice. All the rules are meant to serve the common good and the most common thing in our world is that we are all human beings first and foremost. The moment religion comes in, the separation starts. Therefore keep it out and we will all be better off. 

[Crystal Coffin]

On 6/21/2024 at 12:42 AM, Confessit said:

 agree.

But they are getting away with it and it’s totally wrong.

Like you say in their country’s you have no choice you have to adhere by the law.

Nobody is above the law we are all subject to it you can’t have your own set of rules.

It actually gives Islam a bad name. It’s dogmatic.

The ex-Muslim movement has been warning the West about the dangers of Islam for years. Do engage with activists who were born into and raised in Muslim families and later left the religion like Harris Sultan, Nuriyah Khan (lives in the UK), Abdullah Sameer and Ridvan Aydemir, among others. Find them on YouTube. I am an ex-Muslim as well (though not living in the West). We hate seeing Western countries being bullied by these religious extremists and whenever Islam is criticized, people are quick to raise the "Islamophobia" card to unscrupulously silence the critics. 

Face the reality AS IT IS - you have to understand what Islam actually is, not the sanitized version propagated by some "peaceful" scholars but the unfiltered, unvarnished form of it as practiced by its most devoted adherents. You need to have a completely honest conversation on how to deal with Islam in your society. It has never been a personal religion, it always has a profound political dimension to it. 

If you are ever going to refer to truly moderate or liberal Muslims who have a secular outlook on life, who believe that Islam needs to be reformed so that it can be compatible with the values of the 21st century, who accept Jews and Christians and pagans and whoever else as EQUALS, who completely accept the theory of evolution, and the list goes on - you are probably talking about 800 people worldwide, out of 1.6 billion Muslims. 

[Raider of the lost Ark]

I suppose Macron is a poltical genius? Did people in France come to their senses or were so shocked about the possibilty to have a right-wing party in power in parliament? One can hope that people in Germany see that for the coming elections in several states send a message to the AFD. 

Vive la France!

[jonski43]

2 hours ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

I suppose Macron is a poltical genius? Did people in France come to their senses or were so shocked about the possibilty to have a right-wing party in power in parliament? One can hope that people in Germany see that for the coming elections in several states send a message to the AFD. 

Vive la France!

I think Macron has just resigned. I wonder if he was just fed up like Rishi Sunak? Both called elections early.