New war in Europe, courtesy of Putin

[promise to try]

5 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Ukraine is planning g the counter attack. Is that what they mean? And how the West doesn’t allow if they are sending arms? It is a war. It sounds totally absurd what that tv says unless I understood wrong what you mean.

there has been a leage of information from ukraine: the washington post has, well, post it. zellensky was/is planning to attack russian land. And apparently the NATO is not allowing him to do it.

anyways, they have already attacked the kremlin, "somebody" tried to do something with a dron, they also tried to kill puttin a month ago, another "somebody" tried to destroy the pipeline in the north sea...

[karbatal]

1 minute ago, promise to try said:

there has been a leage of information from ukraine: the washington post has, well, post it. zellensky was/is planning to attack russian land. And apparently the NATO is not allowing him to do it.

Ukraine has enough defending the territory. As if they had arms and ammunition to attack Russian land. 

[promise to try]

we keep giving them weapons, so who knows

[elijah]

On 5/14/2023 at 11:10 PM, promise to try said:

there has been a leage of information from ukraine: the washington post has, well, post it. zellensky was/is planning to attack russian land. And apparently the NATO is not allowing him to do it.

anyways, they have already attacked the kremlin, "somebody" tried to do something with a dron, they also tried to kill puttin a month ago, another "somebody" tried to destroy the pipeline in the north sea...

Even if UKR was planning an attack on RU land, I wouldn't blame them. RU has been attacking UKR for a year now. Why should UKR NOT attack RU territory. If for example France attacked Spain, would Spain be obliged to keep the war within its territory? Why? In the end of the day UKR keep getting devastated by RU, while RU suffers (no direct) consequences of its aggression.

[promise to try]

11 minutes ago, elijah said:

Even if UKR was planning an attack on RU land, I wouldn't blame them. RU has been attacking UKR for a year now. Why should UKR NOT attack RU territory. If for example France attacked Spain, would Spain be obliged to keep the war within its territory? Why? In the end of the day UKR keep getting devastated by RU, while RU suffers (no direct) consequences of its aggression.

I don´t know. But the countries providing weapons to ukraine, apparently told them that they should keep this was as a defensive war

[karbatal]

Ok let’s stop with the disinformation. Ukraine has difficulty DEFENDING its territory, it’s impossible they attack Russian land. @promise to try that tv is lying to you. Take good note because they may be lying about other things.

[karbatal]

The absolute lack of credibility of some media is nauseating. Especially when simple common sense makes the lies so evident. 

[promise to try]

23 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Ok let’s stop with the disinformation. Ukraine has difficulty DEFENDING its territory, it’s impossible they attack Russian land. @promise to try that tv is lying to you. Take good note because they may be lying about other things.

I think it´s more complicated than this:I think the western governments are starting to plan how to leave ukraine alone and try to have better relations with russia, and they are spreading the news

[karbatal]

10 hours ago, promise to try said:

I think it´s more complicated than this:I think the western governments are starting to plan how to leave ukraine alone and try to have better relations with russia, and they are spreading the news

I don’t agree at all. Especially after all the investment to not be dependent of Russian oil and gas. If only the matter would be to please China so they don’t help Putin with arms. 

[sotos8]

The fact is Russia has conquered 20 - 25% of Ukrainian land but that is not enough to call it victorious .Ukrainians are defending and they are planning a counterattack to regain some of their territories 

It's absolutely insane to claim they are planning  to attack Russsian land with Western arms ,that's not gonna happen even if they could 

[Raider of the lost Ark]

When will Europe stop granting visa to Russian citizens? Why can they still travel around Europe as if nothing happened? Travel restrictions are in place for Russian oligarchs and politicians but obviously not for normal people. What has changed for normal people in Russia exactly? Western brands in supermarkets were replaced by Russian brands, which may be still produced by Western companies secretly doing business with Russia. Have normal Russian people experienced an hardships? Well, except for having to live in this rotten state. 

The German foreign ministry said the reason why they still have not imposed travel bans on normal Russians is that it would be harder to get Russian dissidents out of Russia. Makes me wonder if they have ever seen a Bond movie or ever heard of the Cold War, when such operations took place regularly. 

[karbatal]

4 hours ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

When will Europe stop granting visa to Russian citizens? Why can they still travel around Europe as if nothing happened? Travel restrictions are in place for Russian oligarchs and politicians but obviously not for normal people. What has changed for normal people in Russia exactly? Western brands in supermarkets were replaced by Russian brands, which may be still produced by Western companies secretly doing business with Russia. Have normal Russian people experienced an hardships? Well, except for having to live in this rotten state. 

The German foreign ministry said the reason why they still have not imposed travel bans on normal Russians is that it would be harder to get Russian dissidents out of Russia. Makes me wonder if they have ever seen a Bond movie or ever heard of the Cold War, when such operations took place regularly. 

Why should regular people suffer? I never understood sanctions that make regular people, among them oppressed people, far worse.

[elijah]

3 hours ago, karbatal said:

Why should regular people suffer? I never understood sanctions that make regular people, among them oppressed people, far worse.

Because if you look at interviews with regular RU ppl on Youtube (at least in Moscow and Saint Petersburg), its obvious most want to disassociate with the madman, the war etc. They do not want to talk politics, do not want to think about it and make their best to prove they have zero input in the war. However even if Putin has illegally occupied the most powerful position in the country, they still have a lot to do with the war and are probably the only ones who could stop the madness. If for example 20 million ppl descended on Moscow, I don't think Putin would manage to deal with them with the harsh measures he used for the thousands who dared to protest. The others are more ... how should I say... stupid and are actually supporting the madman and are believing his propaganda (including the antiUKR, antiWest, antilgbtq propaganda). They have to understand there is a price to be paid for the support of the neonazi regime. Why should they be allowed to visit the West if they are antiWestern, want Europe to be weakened etc?

[karbatal]

1 hour ago, elijah said:

Because if you look at interviews with regular RU ppl on Youtube (at least in Moscow and Saint Petersburg), its obvious most want to disassociate with the madman, the war etc. They do not want to talk politics, do not want to think about it and make their best to prove they have zero input in the war. However even if Putin has illegally occupied the most powerful position in the country, they still have a lot to do with the war and are probably the only ones who could stop the madness. If for example 20 million ppl descended on Moscow, I don't think Putin would manage to deal with them with the harsh measures he used for the thousands who dared to protest. The others are more ... how should I say... stupid and are actually supporting the madman and are believing his propaganda (including the antiUKR, antiWest, antilgbtq propaganda). They have to understand there is a price to be paid for the support of the neonazi regime. Why should they be allowed to visit the West if they are antiWestern, want Europe to be weakened etc?

I understand. But sanctions against the well being of population have never worked. There is not a single example of success. Cuba, Iran, Venezuela…. People suffering poverty and the regime is still there. Sanctions against Russia should be against oligarchs and those funding Putin.

 

[karbatal]

Oh about the issue of sanctions: Spain has bought three times enriched uranium from Russia this year. How? Through a US company to avoid sanctions. Let’s not ask for sanctions that affect regular people, let’s ask ourselves if rich people are suffering them at all.

In 2014 when Russia invaded Krimea there were sanctions regarding exports to Russia. Farmers in my region took it very badly because many products went to Russia. But Merkel two weeks later traveled to Russia to meet Putin to get more gas.

What kind of joke is this?????