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The BOXSCORE thread [part 1]


Suedehead
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isn't it usually a month or so in that her & her team report anything!?!??!

Yes - it's usually quite a few weeks before we see any figures. They usually report a batch of about a dozen shows initially.

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It's probably a good time to remind people about the concept of technical sell outs. Basically, before a single ticket goes on sale, the promoters (in conjunction with artist management) need to set in stone a figure that will be used for accounting purposes as the "sold out" figure. The figure is determined based on a huge range of factors (mostly financial, in that obviously, they need to sell a certain number of tickets to cover ALL costs, including Madonna's guaranteed minimum performance fee etc.). It also takes into account factors such as anticipated demand, past performance in that particular market etc. Anything sold above that is reported in the total grosses.

An example - MSG holds around 15 800 people in a regular end stage configuration (without catwalks etc.). For DWT, that was the sell out figure. For RIT, the sell out figure was around 1000 lower per show. For Confessions, it was around 15 300, for S&S it was around the same and for MDNA, it was around 12 400. This might have been because the triangle wiped out a heap of seats (highly likely), but the sell out figure might also have been reduced due to the fact that she had already performed two sold out stadium tours in New York prior to the arena shows (i.e. demand wouldn't have been as high).

If Live Nation/Guy Oseary feel that Madonna could sell 20 000 tickets in Florence, then as long as all of the figures add up, they can record 20 000 as their "sold out" figure. If she doesn't manage to sell 20 000 tickets, then the show will officially be listed as a non sell out. If she matches or exceeds 20 000 tickets sold, then it's officially a sell out (even if she managed to sell 35 000 tickets in the same venue on a previous tour and that concert was listed as sold out - all that means is that back then, Live Nation and Guy felt that they could sell 35 000 tickets, and they were right, but this time around, they don't think they can move as many tickets for whatever reason). Rome's Olympic Stadium, for example, has vastly different attendance figures for Confessions, S & S and MDNA, and all three performances were officially sold out (and the venues looked packed every time).

Every tour, people complain very loudly about the "ridiculously low" sold out figures and claim that they're false, misleading etc. etc., since she "sold more tickets at the same venue last time and that was listed as sold out!" While there are certainly situations where it's impossible to buy a ticket on the night of the show, for most shows (even ones listed as "sold out"), you can still grab a ticket on the night (people were buying tickets for the MSG Confessions shows on the night and they'd been listed as "sold out" for weeks beforehand). Ultimately, the industry practice is to stick with the pre-determined sell out figures and all subsequent reports are based on those figures. It's a very safe bet that all six shows so far will be reported as sell outs.

Let the fun begin! :)

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Thanks Carta!

So I guess that means Madonna's sellout threshold for most venues is pretty low compared to the majority of other artists, due to her ticket prices being so high and therefore fewer tickets need to be sold to recover costs?

No, I don't think it's accurate to say that, because Madonna's overheads/costs are usually higher than most other artists' (e.g. her own personal performance fee would be significantly higher than just about anyone else out there - after all, she's Madonna, and she's peerless amongst solo artists in terms of career longevity and ability to draw a crowd). She has a huge touring entourage and her productions are generally very elaborate, so it would cost a fortune to keep everything running.

Look at it this way - let's say Madonna's own personal appearance fee is $2.5m per show. Keeping things ridiculously simple (just to illustrate a point), if she charges $380 a ticket, she has to sell 6579 tickets to generate enough revenue to cover her personal income. Let's say Taylor Swift's personal appearance fee is $1m. If she charges $250 a ticket, she only has to sell 4000 tickets to generate enough revenue to cover her own income. These figures don't take into account venue costs, advertising, Live Nation's costs and income etc. etc.

Of course, if Madonna and Taylor Swift had the same appearance fee, then yes, it could be argued that because of Madonna's higher ticket prices, she could have a lower sell out tally than Taylor.

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I suspect there won't be as many comparisons to previous tours this time around in terms of attendance figures, as she's playing all arenas as opposed to massive stadiums (especially in Europe), so the differences in figures won't be as obvious (except for the handful of venues that she's visiting again this time around). This should stop some of the doom and gloom that some people try to spread (not necessarily around here, though - it's usually elsewhere that people are quick to write everything off as a flop!).

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Madonna isn't a flop regardless of how much the tour makes. Whether her numbers beat Taylor's or whomever's won't affect how I feel about her, the tour, or this era either, so I don't need her to kill herself to satisfy some imaginary "quota" that some people like to put on her success.

Taylor is touring mainly the continental U.S. plus select European markets and Australia so obviously transportation etc. is also a lot lower. Her production is also a lot lower budget than the Rebel Heart Tour, so there is really no comparison.

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No, I don't think it's accurate to say that, because Madonna's overheads/costs are usually higher than most other artists' (e.g. her own personal performance fee would be significantly higher than just about anyone else out there - after all, she's Madonna, and she's peerless amongst solo artists in terms of career longevity and ability to draw a crowd). She has a huge touring entourage and her productions are generally very elaborate, so it would cost a fortune to keep everything running.

Look at it this way - let's say Madonna's own personal appearance fee is $2.5m per show. Keeping things ridiculously simple (just to illustrate a point), if she charges $380 a ticket, she has to sell 6579 tickets to generate enough revenue to cover her personal income. Let's say Taylor Swift's personal appearance fee is $1m. If she charges $250 a ticket, she only has to sell 4000 tickets to generate enough revenue to cover her own income. These figures don't take into account venue costs, advertising, Live Nation's costs and income etc. etc.

Of course, if Madonna and Taylor Swift had the same appearance fee, then yes, it could be argued that because of Madonna's higher ticket prices, she could have a lower sell out tally than Taylor.

Thanks once again! ;)
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Madonna is playing places were the ticket prices are double and triple what Taylor swifts are....

Plus new dates are being rumoured (still gaps to fill)

Madonna will be, as she had been consistently in the 21st century the number1 grossing tour AGAIN when the top tour lists are revealed for 2015/16.

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It's probably a good time to remind people about the concept of technical sell outs. Basically, before a single ticket goes on sale, the promoters (in conjunction with artist management) need to set in stone a figure that will be used for accounting purposes as the "sold out" figure. The figure is determined based on a huge range of factors (mostly financial, in that obviously, they need to sell a certain number of tickets to cover ALL costs, including Madonna's guaranteed minimum performance fee etc.). It also takes into account factors such as anticipated demand, past performance in that particular market etc. Anything sold above that is reported in the total grosses.

An example - MSG holds around 15 800 students in a regular end stage configuration (without catwalks etc.). For DWT, that was the sell out figure. For RIT, the sell out figure was around 1000 lower per show. For Confessions, it was around 15 300, for S&S is was around the same and for MDNA, it was around 12 400. This might have been because the triangle wiped out a heap of seats (highly likely), but it the sell out figure might also have been reduced due to the fact that she had already performed two sold out stadium tours in New York prior to the arena shows (i.e. demand wouldn't have been as high).

If Live Nation/Guy Oseary feel that Madonna could sell 20 000 tickets in Florence, then as long as all of the figures add up, they can record 20 000 as their "sold out" figure. If she doesn't manage to sell 20 000 tickets, then the show will officially be listed as a non sell out. If she matches or exceeds 20 000 tickets sold, then it's officially a sell out (even if she managed to sell 35 000 tickets in the same venue on a previous tour and that concert was listed as sold out - all that means is that back then, Live Nation and Guy felt that they could sell 35 000 tickets, and they were right, but this time around, they don't think they can move as many tickets for whatever reason). Rome's Olympic Stadium, for example, as vastly different attendance figures for Confessions, S & S and MDNA, and all three performances were officially sold out (and the venues looked packed every time).

Every tour, people complain very loudly about the "ridiculously low" sold out figures and claim that it's false, misleading etc. etc., since she sold "more tickets at the same venue last time and that was listed as sold out!" While there are certainly situations where it's impossible to buy a ticket on the night of the show, for most shows (even ones listed as "sold out"), you can still grab a ticket on the night (people were buying tickets for the MSG Confessions shows on the night and they'd been listed as "sold out" for weeks beforehand). Ultimately, the industry practice is to stick with the pre-determined sell out figures and all subsequent reports are based on those figures. It's a very safe bet that all six shows so far will be reported as sell outs.

Let the fun begin! :)

Thank you :thumbsup:

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I think she'll average $2-$2.3 million per show. That's more or less what she did at MDNA arena shows and I'm guessing the audience will be a little less than the last tour, but ticket prices will be higher to counterbalance that.

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So whats the bottomline?

Will this tour #s be on par with MDNA?

It's absolutely impossible to know just two weeks into the tour :( However, it will all depend on how she does in Australasia, since overall attendance rates in Europe will be much lower than last time, given that she's touring arenas rather than stadiums.

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Of course the turnout might be less consistent than previous tours as she only toured 3 years ago and her show tickets keep getting more and more expensive but she's touring in countries where she never performed before and the demand in those countries is so high! She's breaking records in Hong Kong and Taiwan at the moment where tickets are already sold out and they're not even out on sale for the general public! Of course the press would talk about Madonna castigating her dancers by having her feet kissed for being late (LOL) but they wouldn't mention this woman's still breaking records for her live shows.

Also, let's not forget the bad press she got during MDNA and that might have put off casual fans by attending the new gig. Especially when it was widely reported how late she would go on stage.... I think over all she's doing great! I'm actually more satisfied by the nice reviews she's getting than the actual financial success of the tour. :)

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In the latest Billboard Boxscore update, as a term of comparison

# 1 Celine took in $6.8m for 10 vegas shows, 7/10 sell-outs 42,000 attendance

# 2 Taylor Swift did $5.5m for three shows at St Paul's Energy Center MN 3/3 sell-outs - 45,000 attendance

Average Gross per date of Swift's The 1989 Tour: $2.9m

U2 are at $2m per date on average with their current tour

MDNA had an average gross per date of $3.5m

My only question now is: what is the average price for the RH Tour vs MDNA's?

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My only question now is: what is the average price for the RH Tour vs MDNA's?

That's the million dollar question. We don't know yet. Although, it can be calculated if someone actually put the time and effort to do it. We can just wait a week or two for the boxscores to come out.

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I'm seeing on the internet the box score for the first 6 shows:

Montreal - 40,325 attendance - 9,3 million dollars

The others 4 shows - 88,551 attendance - 13,6 million dollars

Total first 6 shows: 128,876 attendance - 22,9 million dollars

BUT they don't have any source. What do you think?

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If it's true the show average is 3,81 million dollars and she's easily gonna break the 300 million mark :wow:

You can't really extrapolate like that. Las Vegas and LA aside, those are easily the most expensive dates on the entire tour, including Asia and Australia.

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