Patrick Leonard Speaks ..and he misses Madonna!

[Nikki]

didnt madonna write most (if not all) of the songs on the first version of american life with the musical/productional help of mirwais but warner send her back to the studio cuz it wasn't "poppy" enough?

[Guest Rachelle of London]

The past few days have been really random....hmmm

[Guest Rachelle of London]

Madonna is the best! Night!

[FreeMySoul]

Madonna is the best! Night!

[lasky]

That little diddy she sang for Parkinson in 2005 "Tell The Truth" perhaps. Otherwise, he is correct, there are no solo writing credits for any of her officially released material.

Isn't lucky star soely written by Madonna???

[Starman]

How poorly written is this??

[Catboy]

I demand they work together again

[horn]

Expecting nothing but shit when things coming out from the Mimi swine Roger Cuntman.

[VogueMusic]

The past few days have been really random....hmmm

You can say that again.

[lori]

I didn't realize the article was written by that notorious and biast hater. Blah.

But I think the Leonard interview confirms that Madonna is more a lyrist and an overall "fine tuner" of the melody and sound of the music. She isn't sitting around at the piano composing her own melodies and it is unfair to the likes of Patrick Leonard to suggest otherwise. Madonna does not have solo writing credits for any of her music, her songwriting involvement has always been collaborative. She is still a songwriter, and highly talented in her involvement and contribution, but she is not churning out her material all on her own.

There should be a distinction made between the music and the melody. I thought they were one and the same thing but apparently they're not. The music technically speaking is the backtracking while the melody is the tune of the song. Madonna never writes the music but she is largely responsible for the melody of a lot of her songs. Many of her collaborators including Orbit, Mirwais, Price & now Leonard have credited her for having a good knack for coming up with great melodies. So in effect, she is largely responsible for most of the lyrics and a lot to do with the melody part of the music. I think that explains why most of her collaborators - Orbit, Mirwais, Price, Bray, Pettibone and even the much revered Leonard have not come up with anything up to par with their work with Madonna. They lack one important ingredient - Madonna's input....which in reality is largely responsible for making the songs hits, timeless classics and damn good pop songs.

[Carta]

Roger Friedman LOATHES Madonna, and he has put his own interpretation on Pat's comments. Let's look at the following quote:

“She’d refine it,” he says. “You give her a track, she sings the melody. She’s very very talented.” In the line before, Friedman's own interpretation of the process is as follows:

"He wrote the music, and brought it to Madonna. She would help supply lyrics and offer changes in the music to suit her."

He's very cleverly downplayed Madonna's involvement in the whole process, and unfortunately, it's his interpretation of Pat's comments that will be reported.

It's widely reported that Madonna handles the lyrics. Some of her collaborators contribute nothing to the lyrics, while others help her to shape the story and edit her lyrics (this varies from song to song e.g. we know that Madonna wrote the lyrics for "La Isla Bonita" by herself - we also know that Pat was unhappy with some of the lyrics of "Like A Prayer", but couldn't do anything about it. We know that Justin trawled through Madonna's lyric book and took lines from all over the place to create songs, and we know for sure that the Benassi brothers contributed zilch to the lyrics of "I'm Addicted" and "Best Friend").

Madonna generally handles the bulk of the melodies, which she creates over backing tracks that have been created by her collaborators. Pat's quote (not Friedman's interpretation) supports this: "You give her a track, she sings the melody". If all she did was sing a melody that he had written, Pat would have no reason to say, "She's very, very talented" (since anyone can sing a melody that somone else has written)! Stuart Price has spoken about Madonna's remarkable ability to "come up with a melody on the spot".

Sometimes, a basic outline of the melody already exists in the backing track (e.g. LTT - the basic "I have a tale to tell" melody line is already there - Madonna elaborated on it when she created the main melody. Listen also to the chorus - you can hear the basic outline of its melody in the backing track, but Madonna sings a variation of it as the main melody). In other songs, though, only the chordal progression is evident in the backing track, so Madonna's involvement in the creation of the melody for those songs was probably greater.

In a nutshell, Madonna's collaborators tend to create the backing track (sometimes based on melodic ideas that Madonna has sung to them). Madonna then creates a melody to accompany the backing track and handles the bulk of the lyrics (with varying levels of input from her collaborators, depending on who they are - you can bet that Mirwais didn't have much input into the lyrics on their collaborations, since he's not fluent in English). Pat's own comments (as opposed to Friedman's interpretation) support this.

As for Madonna never being credited as the sole writer on any of her songs, "Lucky Star", "Burning Up", "I Know It", "Think of Me", "Gambler" and "Shoo Bee Doo" are the main examples (we know that "Everybody" was actually a Stephen Bray co-write). "Hey You" is also credited solely to Madonna, as is "Physical Attraction" (in terms of copyright registration).

[Carta]

It is quite depressing how people never want to give Madonna proper credit for her achievements. Even her own fans do it continually. Not only has she co-written many songs, but as other members have pointed out, she has written some solo.

Madonna won a dance scholarship and yet people say she can't dance well. She has written music and played in bands before she was famous. Read accounts of her life by Dan and Ed Gillroy and you will see how she was incredibly involved and dedicated to song-writing. She sings beautiful ballads and pop classics beautifully yet people say she can't sing. Producers, song-writers, musicians and other artists who have worked with her have all commented on how musical and hands-on she is, yet on this very thread people are doubting her ability.

Well said, Jazzyjan!! I hadn't read all of the comments in the thread when I posted mine.

[Jazzy Jan]

Carta, You always are spot on with your facts on Madonna's music. It truly is frustrating that this Roger creature keeps having his articles published and quoted. Does anybody actually really know why he has such a biased and hateful attitude to Madonna ? Similar to Page Six, Huffington Post, Daily Mail etc who hardly ever report anything positive about Madonna but are just drooling to report anything negative and highlight it. Madonna opens schools in Malawi and has raised the money for the girl's school in Pakistan. We never read that but some unproven facebook entry from a nobody about texting gains attention and articles. Truly biased reporting.

[VeronicaElectronica]

Carta, You always are spot on with your facts on Madonna's music. It truly is frustrating that this Roger creature keeps having his articles published and quoted. Does anybody actually really know why he has such a biased and hateful attitude to Madonna ? Similar to Page Six, Huffington Post, Daily Mail etc who hardly ever report anything positive about Madonna but are just drooling to report anything negative and highlight it. Madonna opens schools in Malawi and has raised the money for the girl's school in Pakistan. We never read that but some unproven facebook entry from a nobody about texting gains attention and articles. Truly biased reporting.

The reason is they are run by either old men with wrinkly balls hanging down to their ankles or by middle aged women who are furious that Madonna is living a life that they wish they had but they don't. The jealousy is real.

[Ciccone's Cheeks]

Adore Pat's work (BOTH writing and production) but if they reconnected (like others said) I just dont think it would work. Their 'sound' prob. wouldnt work nowadays. Only fans would care for it but not radio or the general public even if was brilliant or at least quality material. Yet, total shit like GMAYL and 4M get would airplay and chart lol. The 'only' way it would possibly work is if she had Pat into the mix but had a red hot producer or songwriter (like she did for ROL). Oh, and FYI Pat def. produced or had production involvement on many songs from ROL so dunno why some say he didnt.

[Guest]

There should be a distinction made between the music and the melody. I thought they were one and the same thing but apparently they're not. The music technically speaking is the backtracking while the melody is the tune of the song. Madonna never writes the music but she is largely responsible for the melody of a lot of her songs. Many of her collaborators including Orbit, Mirwais, Price & now Leonard have credited her for having a good knack for coming up with great melodies. So in effect, she is largely responsible for most of the lyrics and a lot to do with the melody part of the music. I think that explains why most of her collaborators - Orbit, Mirwais, Price, Bray, Pettibone and even the much revered Leonard have not come up with anything up to par with their work with Madonna. They lack one important ingredient - Madonna's input....which in reality is largely responsible for making the songs hits, timeless classics and damn good pop songs.

It's not possible to have a non musical melody so wherever you read that...ignore it.

Music is largely mathematical so it relies on sequences and sequence breaks to create effect. Madonna obviously has rhythmic and top line influence in the major. However, she HAS to have a good understanding of EVERY instrument to do that. Finding the place for the vocals in music is the hardest part. I promise you. She has also written tracks from scratch before. In the early days she did so with electronic equipment or little three chord tricks on guitar. She obviously feels comfortable writing on guitar and I have to assume that's how she wrote broken, I deserve it, mother and father and effectively I love New York. I'm probably missing obvious examples but you get the picture. There are times when a track is taken to her and she literally edits and performs the vocals in her own way but those songs are always credited as such. I mean, you can see what she did with gang bang to see what a fucking talent she is. She also isn't from a 'musical' background and was told (like I was) that academia should be your focus. That's hard for somebody who can only think about being an artist everyday! Then you get people who are brought up with music as their education! It's totally different but at the end of the day it comes down to one thing. Can you feel music?

[Guest]

Roger Friedman LOATHES Madonna, and he has put his own interpretation on Pat's comments. Let's look at the following quote:

“She’d refine it,” he says. “You give her a track, she sings the melody. She’s very very talented.” In the line before, Friedman's own interpretation of the process is as follows:

"He wrote the music, and brought it to Madonna. She would help supply lyrics and offer changes in the music to suit her."

He's very cleverly downplayed Madonna's involvement in the whole process, and unfortunately, it's his interpretation of Pat's comments that will be reported.

It's widely reported that Madonna handles the lyrics. Some of her collaborators contribute nothing to the lyrics, while others help her to shape the story and edit her lyrics (this varies from song to song e.g. we know that Madonna wrote the lyrics for "La Isla Bonita" by herself - we also know that Pat was unhappy with some of the lyrics of "Like A Prayer", but couldn't do anything about it. We know that Justin trawled through Madonna's lyric book and took lines from all over the place to create songs, and we know for sure that the Benassi brothers contributed zilch to the lyrics of "I'm Addicted" and "Best Friend").

Madonna generally handles the bulk of the melodies, which she creates over backing tracks that have been created by her collaborators. Pat's quote (not Friedman's interpretation) supports this: "You give her a track, she sings the melody". If all she did was sing a melody that he had written, Pat would have no reason to say, "She's very, very talented" (since anyone can sing a melody that somone else has written)! Stuart Price has spoken about Madonna's remarkable ability to "come up with a melody on the spot".

Sometimes, a basic outline of the melody already exists in the backing track (e.g. LTT - the basic "I have a tale to tell" melody line is already there - Madonna elaborated on it when she created the main melody. Listen also to the chorus - you can hear the basic outline of its melody in the backing track, but Madonna sings a variation of it as the main melody). In other songs, though, only the chordal progression is evident in the backing track, so Madonna's involvement in the creation of the melody for those songs was probably greater.

In a nutshell, Madonna's collaborators tend to create the backing track (sometimes based on melodic ideas that Madonna has sung to them). Madonna then creates a melody to accompany the backing track and handles the bulk of the lyrics (with varying levels of input from her collaborators, depending on who they are - you can bet that Mirwais didn't have much input into the lyrics on their collaborations, since he's not fluent in English). Pat's own comments (as opposed to Friedman's interpretation) support this.

As for Madonna never being credited as the sole writer on any of her songs, "Lucky Star", "Burning Up", "I Know It", "Think of Me", "Gambler" and "Shoo Bee Doo" are the main examples (we know that "Everybody" was actually a Stephen Bray co-write). "Hey You" is also credited solely to Madonna, as is "Physical Attraction" (in terms of copyright registration).

[mangapop]

WTF?! Yes they are!

Do you know the meanings of the words main and stream?!

Main.

1. Most important; principal. See Synonyms at chief.

2. Exerted to the utmost; sheer: by main strength.

Stream.

3. A steady flow or succession: a stream of insults. See Synonyms at flow.

4. A trend, course, or drift, as of opinion, thought, or history.

So if music is popular and successful it is mainstream. Fact. Kate bush is not underground or Avante garde. She is a mainstream artist who is low key. I don't understand people's problems with understanding that POP is not a musical genre.

Kate Bush isn't mainstream. Maybe popular and successful music is mainstream, but I don't talk about success and popularity. I am talking about her music quality.

Mostly mainstream music is just made to top the charts and get some money.

[mangapop]

Oh and Kate is NOT a composer. So while she may decide on the content of her songs she can't write all of the musical parts to the exact measure. She's obviously collaborating with session musicians/her band while recording songs.

Yes she is. And, yes, she also worked with other people.

[DreamTheater]

Madonna has co-wrote all the songs that people remember her by and are credited to her. She had a significant, hands on involvement on all her classics and her collaborators have confirmed this at one point in time. I suppose there are some songs in her catalogue for which she took a writing credit only for a minor modification to a submitted song, but incidentally those weren't her biggest hits.

[redhot]

Roger Friedman LOATHES Madonna, and he has put his own interpretation on Pat's comments. Let's look at the following quote:

“She’d refine it,” he says. “You give her a track, she sings the melody. She’s very very talented.” In the line before, Friedman's own interpretation of the process is as follows:

"He wrote the music, and brought it to Madonna. She would help supply lyrics and offer changes in the music to suit her."

He's very cleverly downplayed Madonna's involvement in the whole process, and unfortunately, it's his interpretation of Pat's comments that will be reported.

It's widely reported that Madonna handles the lyrics. Some of her collaborators contribute nothing to the lyrics, while others help her to shape the story and edit her lyrics (this varies from song to song e.g. we know that Madonna wrote the lyrics for "La Isla Bonita" by herself - we also know that Pat was unhappy with some of the lyrics of "Like A Prayer", but couldn't do anything about it. We know that Justin trawled through Madonna's lyric book and took lines from all over the place to create songs, and we know for sure that the Benassi brothers contributed zilch to the lyrics of "I'm Addicted" and "Best Friend").

Madonna generally handles the bulk of the melodies, which she creates over backing tracks that have been created by her collaborators. Pat's quote (not Friedman's interpretation) supports this: "You give her a track, she sings the melody". If all she did was sing a melody that he had written, Pat would have no reason to say, "She's very, very talented" (since anyone can sing a melody that somone else has written)! Stuart Price has spoken about Madonna's remarkable ability to "come up with a melody on the spot".

Sometimes, a basic outline of the melody already exists in the backing track (e.g. LTT - the basic "I have a tale to tell" melody line is already there - Madonna elaborated on it when she created the main melody. Listen also to the chorus - you can hear the basic outline of its melody in the backing track, but Madonna sings a variation of it as the main melody). In other songs, though, only the chordal progression is evident in the backing track, so Madonna's involvement in the creation of the melody for those songs was probably greater.

In a nutshell, Madonna's collaborators tend to create the backing track (sometimes based on melodic ideas that Madonna has sung to them). Madonna then creates a melody to accompany the backing track and handles the bulk of the lyrics (with varying levels of input from her collaborators, depending on who they are - you can bet that Mirwais didn't have much input into the lyrics on their collaborations, since he's not fluent in English). Pat's own comments (as opposed to Friedman's interpretation) support this.

As for Madonna never being credited as the sole writer on any of her songs, "Lucky Star", "Burning Up", "I Know It", "Think of Me", "Gambler" and "Shoo Bee Doo" are the main examples (we know that "Everybody" was actually a Stephen Bray co-write). "Hey You" is also credited solely to Madonna, as is "Physical Attraction" (in terms of copyright registration).

.Any fan questioning Madonnas songwriting skills or her skills as a producer needs to educate themselves. There are tons and tons of evidence to support how great her imput is on all levels.

[Raider of the lost Ark]

Kate Bush isn't mainstream. Maybe popular and successful music is mainstream, but I don't talk about success and popularity. I am talking about her music quality.

Mostly mainstream music is just made to top the charts and get some money.

Believe me, when Wuthering Heights and Babooshka were released she was very much mainstream. You were probably not even born then. My impression is that you are very young. Which would also explain that strange idea what a good dancer is from some of the people you hang out with. Only very young people who have never seen a classical ballet themselves would believe urban dance is superior.

[Raider of the lost Ark]

At this point the discussion is getting ridiculous because it is clearly meant to discredit Madonna. If it was not, people should question if Steven Spielberg is a great filmmaker. Let's face it, he didn't do the photography of his movies. What about the screenplay? What about the production design? You know, what I mean.

[Guest]

and most of all Red Shoes is a GREAT album!!!!!!!!!!!

[acko]

A lot of good points r being made here...

But i'd just like 2 point out that when it says she writes the lyrics it also usually means

she writes the 'top melody'. This was pointed out by the legendary songwriter Billy Steinberg

who said Madonna is a VERY underrated as a songwriter.

U can also bet ur ass that when Madonna writes with these DJ-types that the melody is hers.

(unless Guy Oseary went demo shopping for her)

RE: those swedes said they were floored when she started singing Get Together to their track on the spot.

But I'd think with Pat it's a very different process.

And it's different everytime, for instance what is Music (the song) without M's melody? That's her genius right there,

and the essence of 'pop':fag: Don't Tell Me is another perfect example! Listen to the original, then listen 2 her version,

that's songwriting 2!

Also, most of the songs on ROL that had music written by Pat were completely deconstructed & re-arranged.

BUT, don't forget she is also a PRODUCER.

[mangapop]

and most of all Red Shoes is a GREAT album!!!!!!!!!!!

Agree.

But no more talking about the great Kate Bush, it has nothing to do with the main topic...

[madonnasuperfan01]

Roger Friedman LOATHES Madonna, and he has put his own interpretation on Pat's comments. Let's look at the following quote:

“She’d refine it,” he says. “You give her a track, she sings the melody. She’s very very talented.” In the line before, Friedman's own interpretation of the process is as follows:

"He wrote the music, and brought it to Madonna. She would help supply lyrics and offer changes in the music to suit her."

He's very cleverly downplayed Madonna's involvement in the whole process, and unfortunately, it's his interpretation of Pat's comments that will be reported.

It's widely reported that Madonna handles the lyrics. Some of her collaborators contribute nothing to the lyrics, while others help her to shape the story and edit her lyrics (this varies from song to song e.g. we know that Madonna wrote the lyrics for "La Isla Bonita" by herself - we also know that Pat was unhappy with some of the lyrics of "Like A Prayer", but couldn't do anything about it. We know that Justin trawled through Madonna's lyric book and took lines from all over the place to create songs, and we know for sure that the Benassi brothers contributed zilch to the lyrics of "I'm Addicted" and "Best Friend").

Madonna generally handles the bulk of the melodies, which she creates over backing tracks that have been created by her collaborators. Pat's quote (not Friedman's interpretation) supports this: "You give her a track, she sings the melody". If all she did was sing a melody that he had written, Pat would have no reason to say, "She's very, very talented" (since anyone can sing a melody that somone else has written)! Stuart Price has spoken about Madonna's remarkable ability to "come up with a melody on the spot".

Sometimes, a basic outline of the melody already exists in the backing track (e.g. LTT - the basic "I have a tale to tell" melody line is already there - Madonna elaborated on it when she created the main melody. Listen also to the chorus - you can hear the basic outline of its melody in the backing track, but Madonna sings a variation of it as the main melody). In other songs, though, only the chordal progression is evident in the backing track, so Madonna's involvement in the creation of the melody for those songs was probably greater.

In a nutshell, Madonna's collaborators tend to create the backing track (sometimes based on melodic ideas that Madonna has sung to them). Madonna then creates a melody to accompany the backing track and handles the bulk of the lyrics (with varying levels of input from her collaborators, depending on who they are - you can bet that Mirwais didn't have much input into the lyrics on their collaborations, since he's not fluent in English). Pat's own comments (as opposed to Friedman's interpretation) support this.

As for Madonna never being credited as the sole writer on any of her songs, "Lucky Star", "Burning Up", "I Know It", "Think of Me", "Gambler" and "Shoo Bee Doo" are the main examples (we know that "Everybody" was actually a Stephen Bray co-write). "Hey You" is also credited solely to Madonna, as is "Physical Attraction" (in terms of copyright registration).

AMAZING POST. Totally agree

[Guest]

Kate Bush isn't mainstream. Maybe popular and successful music is mainstream, but I don't talk about success and popularity. I am talking about her music quality.

Mostly mainstream music is just made to top the charts and get some money.

1) She was signed to EMI. One of the largest record labels worldwide. IT WAS DEFINITELY INTENDED FOR HER TO SELL RECORDS YOU DUMB FUCK.

2) Your insinuation is basically that Madonna makes soulless music with only the intention of making money. You are ill informed and have no place on a Madonna forum if this is your insinuation! Ugh. Vile.

Yes she is. And, yes, she also worked with other people.

She is not a conductor. She is a producer. There's a difference.

Believe me, when Wuthering Heights and Babooshka were released she was very much mainstream. You were probably not even born then. My impression is that you are very young. Which would also explain that strange idea what a good dancer is from some of the people you hang out with. Only very young people who have never seen a classical ballet themselves would believe urban dance is superior.

At this point the discussion is getting ridiculous because it is clearly meant to discredit Madonna. If it was not, people should question if Steven Spielberg is a great filmmaker. Let's face it, he didn't do the photography of his movies. What about the screenplay? What about the production design? You know, what I mean.

Common sense destroys mangapop idiocy.

[Guest Rachelle of London]

Carta, You always are spot on with your facts on Madonna's music. It truly is frustrating that this Roger creature keeps having his articles published and quoted. Does anybody actually really know why he has such a biased and hateful attitude to Madonna ? Similar to Page Six, Huffington Post, Daily Mail etc who hardly ever report anything positive about Madonna but are just drooling to report anything negative and highlight it. Madonna opens schools in Malawi and has raised the money for the girl's school in Pakistan. We never read that but some unproven facebook entry from a nobody about texting gains attention and articles. Truly biased reporting.

The Daily Mail is an extremly right wing newspaper, they dislike everyone. Seriously, its nothing personal about Madonna, in fact, the fact that they dislike her makes her even more amazing. They've had to amp up their online showbiz site because of the poor reputation the actual newspaper has!

[mangapop]

1) She was signed to EMI. One of the largest record labels worldwide. IT WAS DEFINITELY INTENDED FOR HER TO SELL RECORDS YOU DUMB FUCK.

2) Your insinuation is basically that Madonna makes soulless music with only the intention of making money. You are ill informed and have no place on a Madonna forum if this is your insinuation! Ugh. Vile.

She is not a conductor. She is a producer. There's a difference.

NO NEED TO INSULT. If I can be polite, so can you.

Labels want to sell records, there is nothing bad about that. Every musician wants to sell music.

I have never said Madonna makes soulless music to get some money. Actually, I wrote that everything Madonna made isn't mainstream.

Kate Bush produces and compose, that is a fact.