Jazzy Jan Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 That makes you a good fan, in my opinion. I doubt Madonna herself would think ALL her albums and ALL her tracks are great. I like it when people tell it like it is. I like Celebration a lot, tbqh. And I think that I'm Addicted is great but incredibly bad mixed. Opinions, that's what forums are for. Karbatal, be careful what you wish for. As someone who has all but given up on other Madonna forums, I can tell you that over-negative fans are tiresome. I am not talking about saying they don't like a song, album, look or certain things. That is freedom of choice. But calling her music crap all the time and comparing her to other artists is just the tip of the iceberg It gets worse from then on. Then comes the comments about not liking Madonna, she is fake, talentless, lives in an ivory tower, knows nothing about life. That is some of the mild stuff. So many forums may as well be anti-Madonna sites and I am sure a lot of people here know exactly what I am talking about. You know, one of the very best things about Madonnanation is the fact that people like Madonna, enjoy her music and if they don't like some of her stuff, they say it without coming across as thinking Madonna is beneath them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I dont understand your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I'm a bit sad by this. If fans who wonder why some fans have a problem with hearing criticism about Madonna from other fans you can blame writers like Roger Friedman. He hasn't been the only one these past 30 years. You know he's not letting all comments through? I know for a fact that they are very respectful and articulate too. I'm literally crying with laughter!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Who is your larkspur? Where does she come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VogueMusic Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Karbatal, be careful what you wish for. As someone who has all but given up on other Madonna forums, I can tell you that over-negative fans are tiresome. I am not talking about saying they don't like a song, album, look or certain things. That is freedom of choice. But calling her music crap all the time and comparing her to other artists is just the tip of the iceberg It gets worse from then on. Then comes the comments about not liking Madonna, she is fake, talentless, lives in an ivory tower, knows nothing about life. That is some of the mild stuff. So many forums may as well be anti-Madonna sites and I am sure a lot of people here know exactly what I am talking about. You know, one of the very best things about Madonnanation is the fact that people like Madonna, enjoy her music and if they don't like some of her stuff, they say it without coming across as thinking Madonna is beneath them. Just out of curiosity, what are these other forums everyone is always talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Who is your larkspur? Where does she come from? :confused look on face followed by numerous eye blinks:: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugbyguy Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Anyone notice that Kylie Minogue's record company and followed Madonna's lead by remixing all the singles off Rhythm of Love on release? Even Steve Bray helped out on a few of the album tracks. This was around the time when she really started copying Madonna very closely. She was the Gaga of the 90's to Madonna fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runa Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Karbatal, be careful what you wish for. As someone who has all but given up on other Madonna forums, I can tell you that over-negative fans are tiresome. I am not talking about saying they don't like a song, album, look or certain things. That is freedom of choice. But calling her music crap all the time and comparing her to other artists is just the tip of the iceberg It gets worse from then on. Then comes the comments about not liking Madonna, she is fake, talentless, lives in an ivory tower, knows nothing about life. That is some of the mild stuff. So many forums may as well be anti-Madonna sites and I am sure a lot of people here know exactly what I am talking about. You know, one of the very best things about Madonnanation is the fact that people like Madonna, enjoy her music and if they don't like some of her stuff, they say it without coming across as thinking Madonna is beneath them. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I dont understand your post Move on to the next one! That's what I do now. There are many posts in here that I don't understand. It works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I like it when people express their feelings. Of course, some people here are unable to handle it. There's a big difference between critisizing Madonna all the time or being tiresome with an issue (for example, i guess I was a tiny bit tiresome about HC back in the day), and just giving an opinion. If that "negativity" is according to the majority (for example "ugh, i hate Don't Stop" or "Will she sing Give me a Bucket again?") it doesn't matter. But if somebody says "I don't like Falling Free", then some come here all in rage calling names and trying to show the other person as if he was a retard or something. It's not good for a forum that some posters are allowed to call names if that happens. For example, there should have been a wider and better discussion about this whole Secret Project. But whenever somebody said that the video was pretentious or that the message made no sense at all because you have to be very childish to think that you are going to change the world by wearing a wig and being all beautiful in black and white, the discussion turned into pandemonium. At the end of the day, some issues aren't discussed, and it's a pity, because you learn far more discussing different ideas than clapping for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jan Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I like it when people express their feelings. Of course, some people here are unable to handle it. There's a big difference between critisizing Madonna all the time or being tiresome with an issue (for example, i guess I was a tiny bit tiresome about HC back in the day), and just giving an opinion. If that "negativity" is according to the majority (for example "ugh, i hate Don't Stop" or "Will she sing Give me a Bucket again?") it doesn't matter. But if somebody says "I don't like Falling Free", then some come here all in rage calling names and trying to show the other person as if he was a retard or something. It's not good for a forum that some posters are allowed to call names if that happens. For example, there should have been a wider and better discussion about this whole Secret Project. But whenever somebody said that the video was pretentious or that the message made no sense at all because you have to be very childish to think that you are going to change the world by wearing a wig and being all beautiful in black and white, the discussion turned into pandemonium. At the end of the day, some issues aren't discussed, and it's a pity, because you learn far more discussing different ideas than clapping for everything. I agree with what you are saying. There is nothing wrong with saying you don't like certain songs, looks and issues about Madonna. We are not all going to like the same things and that would be boring. There are lot of fantastic members here who are critical of a lot of Madonna's work but they are also obvious fans of Madonna. It is hard to describe as does not really happen here much but I am talking about people who actually have a strong dislike for Madonna and complain about everything she does. I won't whinge about it again but I know there are a lot of people here who have experienced the same thing elsewhere. That is why Madonnantion is the most popular Madonna forum around. You know that you are among actual Madonna fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 ^ EXACTLY!!!!!! So let's forget about the moaners who think that their lives will be better if they praise Madonna all the time and let's be intelligent and wise. I'm sure that what Madonna would do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 ^ I've heard it before that people praise Madonna for their own gain. "Their lives will be better" Speaking for myself I have never praised anyone for my own gain. It's also intelligent and wise and strong I might add to speak your mind even if it makes you unpopular and vunerable to criticism. I think Jan is speaking of forums where Madonna is blindly criticised. You can say also that people criticise Madonna thinking their lives will be better and if it's constant never ending criticism then it's equally unintelligent and unwise. I think Madonna would be interested in true opinions not ones given to be part of a crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 ^ I've heard it before that people praise Madonna for their own gain. "Their lives will be better" Speaking for myself I have never praised anyone for my own gain. It's also intelligent and wise and strong I might add to speak your mind even if it makes you unpopular and vunerable to criticism. I think Jan is speaking of forums where Madonna is blindly criticised. You can say also that people criticise Madonna thinking their lives will be better and if it's constant never ending criticism then it's equally unintelligent and unwise. I think Madonna would be interested in true opinions not ones given to be part of a crowd. I think of Madonna felt that somebody was claiming to be a fan while criticising every move she made and wishing it would be 1989 again then she'd be like...FUCK OFF ENSLAVER. If you notice...she often tells haters to go away on instagram etc. That's because some people blind and/or obsessively hate on the most pathetic things while being a) hypocrites b) too lazy to do anything themselves and quite frankly I am a fan because I enjoy what she does. If I didn't I wouldn't be on MADONNANATION. Oh and larkspur, I wasn't mocking you but that sentence was really bending my mind and I read it like four times until eventually I cracked up and couldn't breathe. Tears were rolling down my face so thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Karbatal, be careful what you wish for. As someone who has all but given up on other Madonna forums, I can tell you that over-negative fans are tiresome. I am not talking about saying they don't like a song, album, look or certain things. That is freedom of choice. But calling her music crap all the time and comparing her to other artists is just the tip of the iceberg It gets worse from then on. Then comes the comments about not liking Madonna, she is fake, talentless, lives in an ivory tower, knows nothing about life. That is some of the mild stuff. So many forums may as well be anti-Madonna sites and I am sure a lot of people here know exactly what I am talking about. You know, one of the very best things about Madonnanation is the fact that people like Madonna, enjoy her music and if they don't like some of her stuff, they say it without coming across as thinking Madonna is beneath them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 ^ I've heard it before that people praise Madonna for their own gain. "Their lives will be better" Speaking for myself I have never praised anyone for my own gain. It's also intelligent and wise and strong I might add to speak your mind even if it makes you unpopular and vunerable to criticism. I think Jan is speaking of forums where Madonna is blindly criticised. You can say also that people criticise Madonna thinking their lives will be better and if it's constant never ending criticism then it's equally unintelligent and unwise. I think Madonna would be interested in true opinions not ones given to be part of a crowd. You are right babe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Everytime I praise Madonna I get sex. That's why I praise Madonna. Everytime Karbatal whines about Madonna Kylie loses a boyfriend. That's why Kylie is such a man hopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 ^ To clarify I was aware what I wrote sounded confusing but was too lazy to change it and thought well I understand it. What I was trying to say is that some fans who love Madonna, having been reading articles that twist the truth or basically lie about her for years can become protective of her. Because of writers like Roger Friedman some fans react emotionally and don't say what they really think all the time because they don't want to add one more bit of criticism on top of what has been for them an endless stream of criticism for 30 years. They become protective of her and it's difficult for them to criticise her and they cannot understand why any fan of Madonna would want to add to the negativity. That of course has nothing to do with people who just happen to like a lot of Madonna's work or what she does genuinely and people who genuinely don't like some of her work or what she does. I do believe that people who truly don't like Madonna post in forums about her and in the name of "it's my opinion" they basically take over the forum. I'm not saying that everyone who says it's my opinion is not a fan. There are fans who are comfortable criticising Madonna who are true fans. I'm talking about the ones who sound like Roger and who would like nothing better than to divide Madonna's fanbase. Then some fans get defensive and true discussions about Madonna and her work are made difficult. This forum is fair when it comes to criticising and or praising Madonna. I hope this makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Bad opinions should only be critisized when they don't add something to the discussion. I mean, i have just started a thread about FAlling Free. If somebody says "i don't like that song, is overrated", it's his opinion. If somebody says "she's lost it and fans still think she can write good songs?" that is simply something uncalled for. The same with the answers. If someone doesn't like the song it's stupid to go and say "oh, maybe your beloved Lana del Rey writes better???", and end the discussion by going all mincer and bitchy. It's far better to ask "oh, why don't you like it?" or simply accept that people are entitled to their own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 There's one particular forum, I'm not naming names that after making a passive aggressive remark about Madonna give a wink. They crack me up. If anyone dares to criticise anyone else its "We all know Madonna doesn't do anything like that." Wink wink wink Lol stfu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangapop Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 There's one particular forum, I'm not naming names that after making a passive aggressive remark about Madonna give a wink. They crack me up. If anyone dares to criticise anyone else its "We all know Madonna doesn't do anything like that." Wink wink wink Lol stfu Madonna Tribe forum, I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carta Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 What happened to the discussion about Patrick Leonard....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 SOMEONE ELSE LISTENED TO HIS NEW WORK WITH COHEN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMoody Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Don't be a dick, she creates the melodies a lot of the time and her cowriter translates it into written music. Don't you ever read interviews with her collaborators? Flop fan Where's my gun, I shall end it all today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Where's my gun, I shall end it all today. it's a bit confusing because you come here saying the only song she ever wrote was "tell the truth" and a few posts later you basically admit to not knowing what you were talking about.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 What happened to the discussion about Patrick Leonard....? We've been discussing it since American Life, hahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMoody Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Cmoodys posts in here are giving me such a bad vibe, it's like everything that madonna has done in terms of songwriting is refuted or devalued matter of factly. I mean madonna does not go in and write all the music herself although she has composed melodies solely. This post was meant to praise her abilities right? Nothing negative whatsoever. Perhaps I was boxing Madonna in a bit too much for some but it is my understanding of her. I see her as a unique and enormous expressive talent. Never before, or since (all the wannabes) has one solo performance artist so impressively and completely embodied emotion in their work. Madonna uses her entire being as a form of expression, whether it is live on stage, in a recording studio, in a music video, or even in still form in a photo shoot. It is not about just the voice, or just the dancing, it is everything combined into one that makes her so irresistibly fascinating and so incredibly talented. For me, Madonna truly stands alone, she is not just a singer, songwriter, or even just a pop star. She is living, breathing, moving, speaking ART. Perhaps for some fans her ability to suggest a melody and pen majority of her lyrics constitutes a strong songwriting talent, but for me, I do not consider this her strongest creative talent. It IS apart of her talent, but when I think of female songwriters, I think of Dolly Parton, sole writer of thousands of songs, sitting alone in her living room with nothing but her guitar, penning both "Jolene" and "I Will Always Love You" all in one night. Or on set in her trailer for the film "9 to 5" strumming out the rhythm and melody for the movie's theme song with nothing but her fingernails. I think of Clapton, David Foster, Leonard Cohen, all inductees and all massively musically talented. For me, that is their world, Madonna excels and defines another. Perhaps it is my OCD that causes me to so matter-of-factly separate and categorize, and creative talent should never be, nor can it be sepertated or defined, but for me, and many music fans, Madonna is the ultimate performer, but when it comes to songwriting, I do not place her next to the likes of brilliantly talented songwriters like Parton who has over 3,000 solo-penned songs to her name (and these are only the published ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I COULD ACCEPPT IN PART WITH YOU (WELL....WRITING 30000000 ALL-THE-SAME-SONGS IS NOT AN ACHIEVEMENT PER SE, BUT OH WELL...), BUT YOUR FINAL SENTENCE IT SEEMS TO ME JUST A MEANINGLESS DISS.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMoody Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I COULD ACCEPPT IN PART WITH YOU (WELL....WRITING 30000000 ALL-THE-SAME-SONGS IS NOT AN ACHIEVEMENT PER SE, BUT OH WELL...), BUT YOUR FINAL SENTENCE IT SEEMS TO ME JUST A MEANINGLESS DISS.... Parton certainly has the quality to back up the quantity. To suggest otherwise is ignorance: Songwriting: Parton is a prolific songwriter, having begun by writing country-music songs with strong elements of folk music, based upon her upbringing in humble mountain surroundings, and reflecting her family's evangelical-Christian background. Her songs "Coat of Many Colors", "I Will Always Love You" and "Jolene" have become classics in the field, as have a number of others. As a songwriter, she is also regarded as one of country music's most-gifted storytellers, with many of her narrative songs based on persons and events from her childhood. On November 4, 2003, Dolly Parton was honored as a BMI Icon at the 2003 BMI Country Awards.[40] She has earned over 35 BMI Pop and Country Awards throughout her prolific songwriting career.[41] In 2001, she was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame.[42] In a 2009 interview with CNN's Larry King Live, Parton indicated that she had written "at least 3,000" songs, having written seriously since the age of seven. Parton went on to say that she writes something every day, be it a song or an idea.[3] One example, "Down From Dover", written when Dolly was just a teenager about a girl who ends up pregnant by a man who leaves her. She is rejected by her family and forced to give birth alone, to what ends up being a stillborn. Lyrics: I know this dress I'm wearing doesn't hide the secret I have tried concealing When he left he promised me that he'd be back by the time it was revealing The sun behind a cloud just casts the crawling shadow o'er the fields of clover And time is running out for me I wish that he would hurry down from Dover He's been gone so long when he left the snow was deep upon the ground And I have seen a spring and summer pass and now the leaves are turning brown And any time a tiny face will show itself 'cause waiting's almost over But I won't have a name to give it if he doesn't hurry down from Dover My folks weren't understanding when they found out they sent me from the home place My daddy said if folks found out he'd be ashamed to ever show his face My mamma said I was a fool and she did not believe it when I told her That everything would be all right 'cause soon he would be coming down from Dover I loved him more than anything and I could not refuse him when he needed me He was the only one I'd loved and I just can't believe that he was using me He couldn't leave me here like this I know it can't be so it can't be over He wouldn't make me go through this so long, oh he'll be coming down from Dover My body aches the time is here it's lonely in this place where I'm lyin' Our baby has been born but something's wrong it's much too still I hear no cryin' I guess in some strange way she knew she'd never have a father's arms to hold her And dying was her way of telling me he wasn't coming down from Dover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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