New war in Europe, courtesy of Putin

[karbatal]

They are losing. And I guess now he’s trying to save face. 
 

What a sad useless war. As most wars I guess. 

[Confessit]

On 11/10/2022 at 7:58 PM, karbatal said:

They are losing. And I guess now he’s trying to save face. 
 

What a sad useless war. As most wars I guess. 

But now it appears they have launched missiles that have landed in Poland causing damage and killing people. He is loosing and getting frustrated.

I can see WW3 by the end of the month if NATO get together and Poland plan a counter attack.
 

Of course everyone involved in NATO will do their best to avoid it terrified of nuclear weapons.

[karbatal]

I am usually wrong about these things but nobody would benefit from a world war. I doubt the conflict escalates more. Besides Biden has already said that it is unlikely that those misils come from Russia 

[sotos8]

Rumor has it that the Americans are in talks with Russia .Biden is urging both Russia and Ukraine to start peace talks .Americans say that the missils hitting Poland were Ukrainian trying to hit russian missiles .I hope these are signs that something is changing

[karbatal]

At this point NOBODY is benefiting from this. It would be good to stop the nonsense. But I do wonder how that stupid Putin will save face. Especially when he’s unhinged. And frankly I doubt Ukraine thinks it’s good to lose more territory so Russia and Crimea are connected. 

[Kilt]

Ukrainians will not surrender their occupied territories and Russians will not give up control of occupied Ukrainian territories. It's a dead-end, imho.

[sotos8]

according to Corriere della sera Zelensky was pressing  Nato to join the war  after the missiles in Poland ,aka 3rd world war

[promise to try]

and now it seems the missils were from ukraine´s security system. 

it seems to me that NATO won´t follow zelensky with his ideas of them joining the war.It´s too risky

[karbatal]

Ukraine is being destroyed. It is understandable that Zelensky wants everyone to join, no matter which circumstances. It seems immoral from our comfortable point of view but understandable from Ukraine point of view.

[promise to try]

13 hours ago, karbatal said:

Ukraine is being destroyed. It is understandable that Zelensky wants everyone to join, no matter which circumstances. It seems immoral from our comfortable point of view but understandable from Ukraine point of view.

the NATO has always been inmoral, only this time is happening closer to us, so nothing new there.The sad thing is that I think NATO wants this war to happen, because that makes them necesary.A year or so before the war, I remember some politicians from the USA talking about the NATO complaining about the effort they make there, whereus the europe doesn´t. A couple of months before they were talking (in germany? france? I don´t remember it) about having an european army.

And the people in NATO had to be really stupid if they thought that having countries that have borders with russia joining them/us was going to be the best way of keeping the peace.

and in the meantime, people in ukraine are losing their lifes ,and we pay attention, but nothing more. Is like the spanish civil war, when nobody (democratic countries) was helping the legality in spain against franco (helped by the fascists).And when Franco won, the USA was the first one to welcome him. I´m afraid this will happen also with the winner of this war.

[sotos8]

Europe accuses US of profiting from war

EU officials attack Joe Biden over sky-high gas prices, weapons sales and trade as Vladimir Putin’s war threatens to destroy Western unity.

Nine months after invading Ukraine, Vladimir Putin is beginning to fracture the West. 

Top European officials are furious with Joe Biden’s administration and now accuse the Americans of making a fortune from the war, while EU countries suffer. 

“The fact is, if you look at it soberly, the country that is most profiting from this war is the U.S. because they are selling more gas and at higher prices, and because they are selling more weapons,” one senior official told POLITICO. 

The explosive comments — backed in public and private by officials, diplomats and ministers elsewhere — follow mounting anger in Europe over American subsidies that threaten to wreck European industry. The Kremlin is likely to welcome the poisoning of the atmosphere among Western allies. 

“We are really at a historic juncture,” the senior EU official said, arguing that the double hit of trade disruption from U.S. subsidies and high energy prices risks turning public opinion against both the war effort and the transatlantic alliance. “America needs to realize that public opinion is shifting in many EU countries.”

Another top official, the EU’s chief diplomat Josep Borrell, called on Washington to respond to European concerns. “Americans — our friends — take decisions which have an economic impact on us,” he said in an interview with POLITICO.

The U.S. rejected Europe's complaints. “The rise in gas prices in Europe is caused by Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and Putin's energy war against Europe, period," a spokesperson for Biden's National Security Council said. Exports of liquefied natural gas from the U.S. to Europe "increased dramatically and enabled Europe to diversify away from Russia," the NSC spokesperson said.

The biggest point of tension in recent weeks has been Biden’s green subsidies and taxes that Brussels says unfairly tilt trade away from the EU and threaten to destroy European industries. Despite formal objections from Europe, Washington has so far shown no sign of backing down. 

At the same time, the disruption caused by Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is tipping European economies into recession, with inflation rocketing and a devastating squeeze on energy supplies threatening blackouts and rationing this winter. 

As they attempt to reduce their reliance on Russian energy, EU countries are turning to gas from the U.S. instead — but the price Europeans pay is almost four times as high as the same fuel costs in America. Then there’s the likely surge in orders for American-made military kit as European armies run short after sending weapons to Ukraine. 

It's all got too much for top officials in Brussels and other EU capitals. French President Emmanuel Macron said high U.S. gas prices were not “friendly” and Germany’s economy minister has called on Washington to show more “solidarity” and help reduce energy costs. 

Ministers and diplomats based elsewhere in the bloc voiced frustration at the way Biden’s 

government simply ignores the impact of its domestic economic policies on European allies. 

When EU leaders tackled Biden over high U.S. gas prices at the G20 meeting in Bali last week, the American president simply seemed unaware of the issue, according to the senior official quoted above. Other EU officials and diplomats agreed that American ignorance about the consequences for Europe was a major problem. 

"The Europeans are discernibly frustrated about the lack of prior information and consultation," said David Kleimann of the Bruegel think tank.

https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-war-europe-ukraine-gas-inflation-reduction-act-ira-joe-biden-rift-west-eu-accuses-us-of-profiting-from-war/

[horn]

[karbatal]

21 minutes ago, horn said:

Oh I doubt there’s a discussion about any biased Politico articles. After all, a loser dictator is killing innocent population and cutting gas supplies, I doubt anybody is going to get angry at USA unless they are truly psychopaths.

[sotos8]

14 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Oh I doubt there’s a discussion about any biased Politico articles. After all, a loser dictator is killing innocent population and cutting gas supplies, I doubt anybody is going to get angry at USA unless they are truly psychopaths.

Isn't Politico a serious publication Karb?

[promise to try]

I haven´t heard anything on the news about this. But we know how the news work nowadays.Anyways, USA is selling more gas than ever, probably weapons too...then they disguise it with something humanitary, and that´s it, this is what has been happening for the last century.USA ´s foreign policy uses the  wars to make them earn money, so this doesn´t surprise me. And europe now is suffering for that, but we haven´t done anything when the war was/is in asia or africa. So in a way, we deserve it because we have been huge cunts with other parts of the world too

[promise to try]

2 hours ago, karbatal said:

Oh I doubt there’s a discussion about any biased Politico articles. After all, a loser dictator is killing innocent population and cutting gas supplies, I doubt anybody is going to get angry at USA unless they are truly psychopaths.

Believe me, if the war last a lot and the economy goes extremily south, people will start complaining about why should we help Ukraine, if "they look  like russians after all" and about why are these countries in the border with russia in the NATO or trying to enter NATO/EU.And of course, the fact that this shit only helps the USA, not the eruopean countries.

[karbatal]

6 hours ago, sotos8 said:

Isn't Politico a serious publication Karb?

Very serious with articles aimed to far right through Cambridge Analytica and Ben Shapiro as columnist. Politico stopped being a serious newspaper years ago.

[sotos8]

4 hours ago, karbatal said:

Very serious with articles aimed to far right through Cambridge Analytica and Ben Shapiro as columnist. Politico stopped being a serious newspaper years ago.

What in your opinion is the best/most objective news site/publication?

[karbatal]

6 minutes ago, sotos8 said:

What in your opinion is the best/most objective news site/publication?

After working 20 years as journalist I have to say NONE. None as a whole. You can get good articles and reports as long as the interests of the owners are far away from the issue. Nowadays I only watch Euronews. Simply because whatever they report is from a Brussels point of view so news about Germany, Italy, Spain or whatever are so detached that they are usually accurate. They have nothing to win supporting one side or the other. 

In this Político article they use a DIRTY TRICK. They write as source an UNNAMED top official of the EU, whatever a EU top official is for someone in USA, and then bring Borrell name taking out of context an old quote from an old interview. The same with Macron and Schulz. That is pure low class of journalism. 
 

Now I wonder who could profit from dividing EU and USA and putting the spotlight from Moscow to Washington? Maybe the same country which financed the selective targeting of Cambridge Analytics using precisely Politico? Mmmmmm maybe PUTIN? 

[Kilt]

Meanwhile the Russian propaganda 

 

 

[air1975]

On 11/26/2022 at 2:33 PM, karbatal said:

After working 20 years as journalist I have to say NONE. None as a whole. 

In this Político article they use a DIRTY TRICK. They write as source an UNNAMED top official of the EU, whatever a EU top official is for someone in USA, and then bring Borrell name taking out of context an old quote from an old interview. The same with Macron and Schulz. That is pure low class of journalism. 
 

Now I wonder who could profit from dividing EU and USA and putting the spotlight from Moscow to Washington? Maybe the same country which financed the selective targeting of Cambridge Analytics using precisely Politico? Mmmmmm maybe PUTIN? 

100% agree. It seemed like a sketchy article with out of context quotes. 

It's also interesting to have your insider journalist's view that no news outlet is completely unbiased. 

[karbatal]

23 minutes ago, air1975 said:

100% agree. It seemed like a sketchy article with out of context quotes. 

It's also interesting to have your insider journalist's view that no news outlet is completely unbiased. 

I was just a regular journalist in a small outlet. But people should get clear that since 2005 with the absolute debacle of sales most outlets were bailed out by big banks and investors from funds. Most outlets are now right wing and anti social measures. 

[promise to try]

this is so part of the news that we don´t even mention this war anymore.the last week it seems that somebody has tried to kill puttin with a dron, I guess he will atack back with more blood and dead

[karbatal]

Not to mention the Wagner owner video. 

[promise to try]

this war´s coverage has become really sad. I mean, I´m sure there have been lies, or half-trues since day one. but poor ucranian people are in the middle of a war that I´m afraid is not related with their country, or not only with their country and puttin. when puttin stops being a problem, politicians will cease caring about the citizens that have lost everything...

[elijah]

14 hours ago, promise to try said:

this war´s coverage has become really sad. I mean, I´m sure there have been lies, or half-trues since day one. but poor ucranian people are in the middle of a war that I´m afraid is not related with their country, or not only with their country and puttin. when puttin stops being a problem, politicians will cease caring about the citizens that have lost everything...

How the war is unrelated to Ukraine?

How exactly would Putin stop being a problem?

How we are not sure that in Putins place won't appear a worse "tzar"?

[karbatal]

17 hours ago, promise to try said:

this war´s coverage has become really sad. I mean, I´m sure there have been lies, or half-trues since day one. but poor ucranian people are in the middle of a war that I´m afraid is not related with their country, or not only with their country and puttin. when puttin stops being a problem, politicians will cease caring about the citizens that have lost everything...

This war is related to Putin and the very rich resources of Ukraine plus the OTAN expansion. 

[karbatal]

If anyone feels they need some reliable information about this war I recommend Euronews. They do daily briefings on advances, retreats etc. 

[promise to try]

they´ve just said on the basque TV that celensky was plannig on attacking Russia, something that his friends from the west didn´t allow him to do

[karbatal]

20 minutes ago, promise to try said:

they´ve just said on the basque TV that celensky was plannig on attacking Russia, something that his friends from the west didn´t allow him to do

Ukraine is planning g the counter attack. Is that what they mean? And how the West doesn’t allow if they are sending arms? It is a war. It sounds totally absurd what that tv says unless I understood wrong what you mean.