New war in Europe, courtesy of Putin

[elijah]

NATO on Friday rejected Russia’s demand to withdraw its troops from Bulgaria and Romania.

“NATO will not renounce our ability to protect and defend each other, including with the presence of troops in the eastern part of the Alliance,” NATO spokesperson Oana Lungescu said in a statement in reaction to the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s remarks.

In a statement issued on Friday, Lavrov explained that Russian proposals on European security arrangement are “about withdrawing foreign troops, equipment and weapons, as well as about other steps aimed at restoring the 1997 configuration of those countries who weren't NATO members at that time and that includes both Bulgaria and Romania.”


Lungescu said the military bloc cannot accept Russia’s demands because they are based on the “idea of spheres of influence in Europe” and “would create first and second class NATO members.”

She added that NATO will respond to any deterioration of the security environment and will continue to “assess the need to reinforce the eastern part of our Alliance.”

US State Secretary Blinken and his Russian counterpart met on Friday in Geneva, Switzerland to continue talks on the two draft treaties that Moscow handed last month to the US and NATO after last week’s negotiations that ended without progress.

At the meeting of the NATO-Russia Council on Jan. 12, the military alliance already rejected Russia’s demand to halt the NATO enlargement process and to withdraw forces from NATO’s eastern flanks and called on Moscow to end threatening rhetoric and the military buildup in and around Ukraine.

https://www.yenisafak.com/en/world/nato-rejects-russian-demand-to-withdraw-from-bulgaria-romania-3588166
not only is Putin preparing a full on war on Ukraine for wanting to side with the West, he wants NATO to return to where it was in 1997, which means NATO must leave all of Eastern Europe, including states which are both NATO and European Union members. I m amazed no one is talking about this disaster here. 

[karbatal]

The world is so tired with the pandemic that we don’t have time for this heterosexual male macho competition. They are all embarrassing themselves.

[elijah]

1 hour ago, karbatal said:

The world is so tired with the pandemic that we don’t have time for this heterosexual male macho competition. They are all embarrassing themselves.

Which are "they"? I only see one wanna be "macho", who is 1.50 sm also.

[karbatal]

33 minutes ago, elijah said:

Which are "they"? I only see one wanna be "macho", who is 1.50 sm also.

Surely Biden building some playground with real size boats together with UK and Australia to scare China in the Indic is equally absurd. Frankly, I don’t have time for any of them.

Bored insecure cis men trying to create havoc to avoid attention or fill some billionaires pockets AGAIN.

 Of course is the regular people who will suffer. Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese… 

[elijah]

2 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Surely Biden building some playground with real size boats together with UK and Australia to scare China in the Indic is equally absurd. Frankly, I don’t have time for any of them.

Bored insecure cis men trying to create havoc to avoid attention or fill some billionaires pockets AGAIN.

 Of course is the regular people who will suffer. Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese… 

Maybe China needs to be scared? I dont wanna live in a world where China is the leading country to be honest. The West takes alot for granted, including human rights and freedoms, which are severely disrespected in China. Or Russia for that matter. I can not agree that Biden has done nearly as much (or even anything) to disrupt European security as Putin. Actually its only Putin, who again tries to make the Russians look the other way so that he continues ruling unopposed for decades. Because Crimea grab made him popular with the Russians, why not do it again with another Ukraine land? In this way he would expose the weakness of Europe and USA and show that the countries he considers "his" should do what he tells them. This has no analog in the West, even in the East.

[karbatal]

This is a smoke curtain and maybe in Russia there is need of one but western countries are too busy with inflation, energy costs and pandemics. 

Look at Germany already backtracking about Crimea because the gas comes from Russia.

This is some Biden/Putin mess and of course AS ALWAYS the innocent country will suffer and the EU will face the consequences, as it happened with Syria. 
 

At least with Trump we confirmed most USA politics come from psychopaths. We already knew that Russian politics were psycho.

[karbatal]

If Putin hadn’t been such a stupid dictator he would have made the EU the ally and the USA would be alone in the world and we all would be quetly enjoying our lives while USA eats itself from within.

[elijah]

58 minutes ago, karbatal said:

If Putin hadn’t been such a stupid dictator he would have made the EU the ally and the USA would be alone in the world and we all would be quetly enjoying our lives while USA eats itself from within.

Putin would never aid/ play with EU. EU has the soft power/appeal to lure in countries that he consider his like Georgia or Ukraine. He does everything to see the union fall, because it would benefit him immensely.

[Guest CzarnaWisnia]

[runa]

All of this is scary and frightening, tbqh

[karbatal]

3 hours ago, runa said:

All of this is scary and frightening, tbqh

Don’t be. Nobody is gaining money from these things. The real money is in central Africa now. Nobody is going to go beserk for Ukraine. Half Europe gets the gas from Russia. I am sure most eu countries are humoring USA because of NATO.

[KalamazooJay]

Well, Covid isn't the ratings bonanza that it was just 6mos ago. All that is beginning to die down. So I wouldn't be surprised if if the powers that be throw a good ol fashioned war out there to rally the faithful, snag some clicks and ratings, and make a quick buck for all involved. 

I mean, Iraq was nearly 20 year ago. So the memory of what America does when it invades countries is escaping the collective consciousness of a good chunk of the population. 

 

[runa]

Biden needs this war to see his popularity goes up.

[Paul Wade]

The scary thing is that this could easily escalate into a global conflict. Perhaps one where nuclear weapons are used. 

[elijah]

8 hours ago, karbatal said:

Don’t be. Nobody is gaining money from these things. The real money is in central Africa now. Nobody is going to go beserk for Ukraine. Half Europe gets the gas from Russia. I am sure most eu countries are humoring USA because of NATO.

Uou. Go tell that to the Baltics, Poland, Romania. It may look as nothing from Spain, but not from the POV of states bordering Russia.

[elijah]

7 hours ago, KalamazooJay said:

Well, Covid isn't the ratings bonanza that it was just 6mos ago. All that is beginning to die down. So I wouldn't be surprised if if the powers that be throw a good ol fashioned war out there to rally the faithful, snag some clicks and ratings, and make a quick buck for all involved. 

I mean, Iraq was nearly 20 year ago. So the memory of what America does when it invades countries is escaping the collective consciousness of a good chunk of the population. 

 

So the fact that Putin is preparing to invade Ukraine should somehow be blamed on Biden? I see the logic there, sure…

[elijah]

6 hours ago, runa said:

Biden needs this war to see his popularity goes up.

Hmmmm. But he is trying to prevent it. Unfortunately Putin has such demands that he knows won’t be accepted. Biden popularity would suffer even greater if a war in Ukraine starts. Putin needs this war, because last time he got Cremea in 2014 and that cemented him in the power. Now, as the covid is taking a toll on the Russians, he d attempt another land grab to bounce back in the good graces of the Russians.

[karbatal]

And what’s the plan? Bomb and destroy eastern Ukraine? What are the planes and tanks for? The only thing that arms can do is make a civil war. 
 

I am frankly tired of these stupid and useless war games. 
 

Why is USA so concerned with Ukraine and not Georgia? What’s really happening? 
 

I guess we will know in some months time.

[karbatal]

And of course never forget:

 

[elijah]

4 hours ago, karbatal said:

Why is USA so concerned with Ukraine and not Georgia? What’s really happening? 

Cause they are about to enter Ukraine maybe? Georgia is old news (2008?) and Georgia doesn't border EU and NATO members. Ukraine does (Romania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary). Georgia is in a region that is a bit borderline between Europe and Asia (though Georgia and Armenia are regarded as European culturally without a doubt), while Ukraine as it was said, borders several EU and NATO member states and is within Europe geographically.

[Kilt]

7 hours ago, elijah said:

Hmmmm. But he is trying to prevent it. Unfortunately Putin has such demands that he knows won’t be accepted. Biden popularity would suffer even greater if a war in Ukraine starts. Putin needs this war, because last time he got Cremea in 2014 and that cemented him in the power. Now, as the covid is taking a toll on the Russians, he d attempt another land grab to bounce back in the good graces of the Russians.

moreover Putin wants to reinstate the spheres of interest/domination prior to the Cold War. That's why he wants to strike the iron while it's still hot, but at what cost?!

[karbatal]

2 hours ago, Kilt said:

moreover Putin wants to reinstate the spheres of interest/domination prior to the Cold War. That's why he wants to strike the iron while it's still hot, but at what cost?!

He has lost all European spheres. Even Serbia.

 I think this is more one “my cock is bigger than yours “ situation 

[elijah]

2 hours ago, karbatal said:

He has lost all European spheres. Even Serbia.

 I think this is more one “my cock is bigger than yours “ situation 

Belarus, Moldova beg to differ. I strongly DISAGREE about Serbia. No-one, apart from Putin, is showing his dick. What did Biden exactly do regarding Ukraine, apart from supporting what the majority Ukrainians want: entrance in EU and NATO? Sorry, but the way Putin speaks about sovereign countries reminds me of communism. No-one in the West have dared to speak in this way. Obviously he dreams of being the new Stalin.

[elijah]

5 hours ago, Kilt said:

moreover Putin wants to reinstate the spheres of interest/domination prior to the Cold War. That's why he wants to strike the iron while it's still hot, but at what cost?!

Exactly, he thinks its the 40ties!

[Guest]

I also think they are comparing their dick and trying to show who´s piss goes more far

I have a doubt, aren´t a few parts of Ukraine very similar to russia (language, culture...)?do these part want to be russia or stay in ukraine?

 

[KalamazooJay]

17 hours ago, elijah said:

So the fact that Putin is preparing to invade Ukraine should somehow be blamed on Biden? I see the logic there, sure…

I never blamed Biden for what's going on over there. But Biden isn't exactly the kind of progressive that shy's away from an international conflict either. And with how things are going for him domestically, it just wouldn't surprise me if he pulled the trigger to garner some support. The question is, who in his party would support this? Even the worst kind of republican doesn't want any more unnecessary wars. 

So I'm perplexed as to what he's doing and why he's interfering in this situation. It's like everyone wants the U.S to intervene until they do and then no one wants us involved including our own citizens.

It's how Trump supporters view government as a whole:

Stay away from us until we need you but even then we don't really want you here. 

[elijah]

3 hours ago, KalamazooJay said:

I never blamed Biden for what's going on over there. But Biden isn't exactly the kind of progressive that shy's away from an international conflict either. And with how things are going for him domestically, it just wouldn't surprise me if he pulled the trigger to garner some support. The question is, who in his party would support this? Even the worst kind of republican doesn't want any more unnecessary wars. 

So I'm perplexed as to what he's doing and why he's interfering in this situation. It's like everyone wants the U.S to intervene until they do and then no one wants us involved including our own citizens.

It's how Trump supporters view government as a whole:

Stay away from us until we need you but even then we don't really want you here. 

USA is already involved... The matter concerns NATO as Putin wants NATO to agree NOT to accept Ukraine at any date and NATO to return to where it was in 1997 (prior to accepting Eastern Europe, thats why it is said he wants the prior sphere of influence of  USSR to reappear). Actually Biden seems moderate in his response: he already ruled out USA getting involved militarily in Ukraine: a state that after 2013 had protests and chose to align itself with the West. It looks like Biden doesn't want war, but Putin would wanna have another part of Ukraine.

[karbatal]

10 hours ago, promise to try said:

I also think they are comparing their dick and trying to show who´s piss goes more far

I have a doubt, aren´t a few parts of Ukraine very similar to russia (language, culture...)?do these part want to be russia or stay in ukraine?

 

That’s the tricky part: east Ukraine is pro Russian in a very high percentage of the population. If a free and honest referendum is made I’m sure they would gladly become independent or be part of Russia. Which would be far better than be destroyed by a civil war or bombings if you ask me. Of course you and me know the tensions that it provokes in a country and what separatism means.

[Guest]

Just now, karbatal said:

That’s the tricky part: east Ukraine is pro Russian in a very high percentage of the population. If a free and honest referendum is made I’m sure they would gladly become independent or be part of Russia. Which would be far better than be destroyed by a civil war or bombings if you ask me. Of course you and me know the tensions that it provokes in a country and what separatism means.

but if the people that are very pro russia ar clearly located in a zone, this could be a solution.Because the separatism creates tensions, but the extreme centralism too. We don´t have anybody fromthat area in madonnanation to explain things first hand?????

[karbatal]

Anyway let’s hope that the conversation of Moscow with France and Germany which will be taking place brings some solution. It’s clear that the solution will not come from Biden. USA is making now army movements AGAIN in the Indic sea facing Russia and China. Imagine Russia was doing that??????