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terrorist attack in Vienna just a few hours ago


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Only four dead plus the attacker after the initial report. Known Islamist from Vienna who wanted to join Isis but police didn't think he was a threat ūüôĀ could be another attacker still on the loose.

 

 

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Those islamists (even those not deemed a threat) should be stripped of their nationality, trown out in their country of origin and forbidden to ever enter EU. The mosques that preach salafism should be closed down, foreign preachers should be forbidden to enter EU and the remaining islamic centers should be allowed to continue their practice after they embrace human rights, women's rights, LGBTQ rights and the devision of religion and state. Burqas and other religious garments should also be forbidden.

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7 hours ago, elijah said:

Those islamists (even those not deemed a threat) should be stripped of their nationality, trown out in their country of origin and forbidden to ever enter EU. The mosques that preach salafism should be closed down, foreign preachers should be forbidden to enter EU and the remaining islamic centers should be allowed to continue their practice after they embrace human rights, women's rights, LGBTQ rights and the devision of religion and state. Burqas and other religious garments should also be forbidden.

Main problem for LGTB and women's rights in the EU right now are white Christians.

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10 hours ago, elijah said:

Those islamists (even those not deemed a threat) should be stripped of their nationality, trown out in their country of origin and forbidden to ever enter EU. The mosques that preach salafism should be closed down, foreign preachers should be forbidden to enter EU and the remaining islamic centers should be allowed to continue their practice after they embrace human rights, women's rights, LGBTQ rights and the devision of religion and state. Burqas and other religious garments should also be forbidden.

In this particular attack (but also in many previous ones) the terrorist was a native-born citizen, so deportation is tricky...Still, I agree tougher measures need to be introduced. This guy who committed the attack yesterday was known to police and intelligence service, he was arrested when he wanted to leave Austria for Syria to join ISIS in fighting. He was sentenced to prison for 22 months, but released early because he took part in a 'de-radicalization' programme and pretended to have turned away from his beliefs - he tricked authorities and they stopped surveilling him. I know we in the West usually let ourselves guided by humanistic views, "everybody deserves a second chance" etc. but in this situation there is a point reached now where we can't hold on to this any longer.

IMO the moment somebody takes the decision to join a radical islamist organization, and there's conclusive evidence for it, it should be game over - life in prison, and for everybody around that person who actively and intentionally influenced him to take that decision. I know many islamists still won't be deterred from committing heinous crimes like these, but at the very least this would send out a strong and clear message to both the islamists AND the European public at large that governments are taking this seriously. 

Statements of solidarity, expressing how horrible the crime is, lighting candles etc. and then going back to the modus operandi after 2 weeks won't cut it much longer I'm afraid. If Europe doesn't finally tackle these issues surrounding radical islam with all its might, and conveys this to the public convincingly, I fear grave social and political consequences. At the end of the day, the Muslim community is one of the biggest sufferers of all this, as with every further attack, the mistrust and discrimination against them grows as well. 

And, when it comes to politics, we all know how the right-wing parties love to exploit this issue of islamism, and as we also know, it has worked great in many EU countries the last years...And it will continue to work as long as people have the impression that European leaders respond weakly to islamist terror. I'm already dreading the French elections in 2022, you just know this topic will be No. 1 in Le Pen's campaign. The last thing I'd want to see is the majority of EU countries under right-wing nationalistic rule by 2025.

 

3 hours ago, karbatal said:

Main problem for LGTB and women's rights in the EU right now are white Christians.

I'd say it's different throughout Europe. In Poland, yes, for sure. In Western Europe? That's debatable IMO. But in any case, this isn't really a competition of which group causes the biggest problem (and I don't think that was @elijahs point). Any place that has been proven to spread hatred against LGTB and women (and yes, many islamic centers were time and time again proven to do just that) is one place too many.

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12 hours ago, Nonoka said:

 

In this particular attack (but also in many previous ones) the terrorist was a native-born citizen, so deportation is tricky...Still, I agree tougher measures need to be introduced. This guy who committed the attack yesterday was known to police and intelligence service, he was arrested when he wanted to leave Austria for Syria to join ISIS in fighting. He was sentenced to prison for 22 months, but released early because he took part in a 'de-radicalization' programme and pretended to have turned away from his beliefs - he tricked authorities and they stopped surveilling him. I know we in the West usually let ourselves guided by humanistic views, "everybody deserves a second chance" etc. but in this situation there is a point reached now where we can't hold on to this any longer.

IMO the moment somebody takes the decision to join a radical islamist organization, and there's conclusive evidence for it, it should be game over - life in prison, and for everybody around that person who actively and intentionally influenced him to take that decision. I know many islamists still won't be deterred from committing heinous crimes like these, but at the very least this would send out a strong and clear message to both the islamists AND the European public at large that governments are taking this seriously. 

Statements of solidarity, expressing how horrible the crime is, lighting candles etc. and then going back to the modus operandi after 2 weeks won't cut it much longer I'm afraid. If Europe doesn't finally tackle these issues surrounding radical islam with all its might, and conveys this to the public convincingly, I fear grave social and political consequences. At the end of the day, the Muslim community is one of the biggest sufferers of all this, as with every further attack, the mistrust and discrimination against them grows as well. 

And, when it comes to politics, we all know how the right-wing parties love to exploit this issue of islamism, and as we also know, it has worked great in many EU countries the last years...And it will continue to work as long as people have the impression that European leaders respond weakly to islamist terror. I'm already dreading the French elections in 2022, you just know this topic will be No. 1 in Le Pen's campaign. The last thing I'd want to see is the majority of EU countries under right-wing nationalistic rule by 2025.

 

I'd say it's different throughout Europe. In Poland, yes, for sure. In Western Europe? That's debatable IMO. But in any case, this isn't really a competition of which group causes the biggest problem (and I don't think that was @elijahs point). Any place that has been proven to spread hatred against LGTB and women (and yes, many islamic centers were time and time again proven to do just that) is one place too many.

Yes. Then close ALL Catholic churches who are spreading hate against gays and women. 

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21 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Yes. Then close ALL Catholic churches who are spreading hate against gays and women. 

The one thing doesn‚Äėt exclude the other. Any preacher who has been proven to do this should be barred from ever holding religious service again, regardless of the institution.

It‚Äės more than understandable though that the focus right now should be¬†on islamic centers, particulary the ones with salafist and/or foreign ties, as they have been the ideological breeding ground for the majority of¬†terror attacks in Europe the last years.¬†

If we continue to object to the fact¬†‚ÄěIslamism¬†is a massive threat to European society‚Äú with ‚ÄěAll radicalism is a threat‚Äú, and to demands like ‚ÄěWe need tougher measures on islamic centers‚Äú with ‚ÄěWe need tougher measures for all religious institutions‚Äú....we will just¬†go in circles, which will¬†achieve nothing and allow the status quo to continue (and then people are in surprise when right-wing parties continue to be¬†succesful...)

PS Do you understand German a bit? There was an interesting documentary made by ARTE some time ago where they investigated the ties of various islamic centers in Western Europe. It was revealed that Qatar has financed the construction of more than 140 insitutions - including schools and cultural centers - with hidden connections¬†to the Muslim Brotherhood, who support the idea of Sharia law. There are clear signs of a systematic effort by foreign nations to spread the ideas¬†of radical islamism within today‚Äôs¬†European society and recruit people for it through seemingly impartial islamic institutions. I really don‚Äėt think Europe can afford¬†to ignore¬†this elephant in the room much longer, regardless of whatever issues¬†the Catholic church or other problematic institutions also cause.

For anyone interested, here‚Äės the link:

https://programm.ard.de/TV/arte/katar--millionen-f-r-europas-islam/eid_287242017741449

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1 hour ago, karbatal said:

Yes. Then close ALL Catholic churches who are spreading hate against gays and women. 

That‚Äôs ridiculous. Christianity doesn‚Äôt preach gays being thrown out of a big buildings. Christianity is nowhere near as homophobic or dangerous as ‚ė™ÔłŹ.¬†

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50 minutes ago, elijah said:

That‚Äôs ridiculous. Christianity doesn‚Äôt preach gays being thrown out of a big buildings. Christianity is nowhere near as homophobic or dangerous as ‚ė™ÔłŹ.¬†

Please, it's not a question of throwing gays from buildings. We are talking about Europe, where church is responsible of gay hate and misogyny for centuries and we are insulted every Sunday in many temples. Can you believe that only two years ago we gays were told that we are not going to burn in jail for eternity? :rotfl:

Our church is shit

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On 11/4/2020 at 4:12 PM, elijah said:

That‚Äôs ridiculous. Christianity doesn‚Äôt preach gays being thrown out of a big buildings. Christianity is nowhere near as homophobic or dangerous as ‚ė™ÔłŹ.¬†

I hope you get married to a Moslim dude with the beard and all. And I hope he puts a burka on your head and doesn’t allow you to go outside of the house and make you an obedient moslim wife 

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5 hours ago, GOD said:

I hope you get married to a Moslim dude with the beard and all. And I hope he puts a burka on your head and doesn’t allow you to go outside of the house and make you an obedient moslim wife 

indeed. Thats quite a real threat.

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17 hours ago, GOD said:

I hope you get married to a Moslim dude with the beard and all. And I hope he puts a burka on your head and doesn’t allow you to go outside of the house and make you an obedient moslim wife 

:lol:

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