EUROVISION! The aftermath!

[VogueMusic]

1 hour ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

Thanks for your reply.

Regarding art and politics : I think it's wrong to teach art students (or students in general) that art is inherently political. I know it is what is taught now, but it's definitely not my vision of art. Art certainly has not been confrontational or anti-power, except for the last 200 years of modern art, which is only a small fraction of all the history of art. I guess it's a question of perception: either you see art as political and you enjoy Madonna's political interventions (basically because her political views suit yours, not because she is being political); either you don't and you enjoy the artistic merit first, and can applaud the political stance (or find it slightly overbaked).

I know Madonna's heart is in the right place when speaking on world issues, but I take it with a huge grain of salt. She has said for years she does not read newspapers or watch TV or the news, and it shows. When she did the Secret Project interview, she recalled her world tour and how she had been awakened/shocked by what she was seeing in European countries, and she wanted to make these things known to a larger audience. The thing is, everybody (who read the news) already knew. Her take on political issues is incredibly general. It's fine if artists bring a more naive point of view on the complicated messes of our overly politicised world, because that naiveté is important as well. And despite being media-savvy and obviously clever, Madonna has remained in a way childlike, which is an important quality for artists, because they need to be awed and to be imaginative. But in the end, I don't think it's unfair if some people see Madonna very seriously preaching to the converted about complex political issues almost no one understands (even political commentators let alone political leaders!) and roll their eyes a little. She will change no one's opinion on the matter, so what's the point? Maybe I'm just being a contrarian, I don't know.

As for the vocal correction of the official video: it's been the norm for years, not only for Madonna but many other artists. They even sometimes use a prerecorded vocal for the broadcast of singers in award shows rather than the live feed. They must have seen the crooked vocals as a technical error and corrected it. Beauty supersedes ethics 

I don't think it's merely about perception, it's also a matter of history. Art has always reflected the times...thing is, there hasn't always been the freedom to do so. Throughout much of history, the arts were often heavily controlled/censored/even destroyed by government, religion, and the wealthy. The ability, or privilege, to be confrontational and anti-power wasn't always allowed. As for art being inherently political, for me it's not a matter of modern teaching, but a reality of looking at any self-expression in the larger context of the who/what/where/when/how in regards to creation and release, and consumption. Also, "political" depends on how one defines it too.

As for Madonna herself, I don't see her as the naive, sheltered diva, or even child, like some do. I've never taken her as literal on the whole "I don't consume media/news" thing. I always took that as referring to "entertainment news" which really is nothing more than PR fluff and gossip. She's a grown woman, and considering the content of her work, I think she is, at the very least, relatively informed, and consumes some real news sources. I can even understand her feeling the weight of certain things seeing it all while touring vs reading about it at home. I think anyone would have a similar reaction.

As for politics in pop, agreeing with it probably does play a part in if one likes it. Sure, I'll cop to that. But considering how much mindless, self-centered, kiddy garbage has ruled the charts for years now, I think saying something a little more significant is a good thing. At least someone is doing it. To give a damn about where the world is going, to actually want to put out something positive in this world, let alone to just care about things like equality, dignity and humanity is simply a reflection of just trying to be a decent human being, at the very least. Things that can (and should) transcend 'political'. At least to me.

[whyme?]

The general public can be very vicious, and they tend to not forget mess-ups. This is why this whole episode is so distressing. We see how the public destroyed the reputation of big name artists (michael, whitney, the list goes on....although, quite frankly, some deserved it). 

Madonna does not deserve it. So she had one bad night, big deal. Like I said before, I think people secretly are infatuated with her and really like her. She just didn't meet their expectations that night...

I think the performance would have been better if she had time to do a 3rd song. A classic 80s song like La Isla Bonita. 

[Geiger83]

58 minutes ago, maximiliano- said:

Do you really think she's not training her voice anymore? At all? I love the performance but I'm a bit concerned about her voice health. 

 

50 minutes ago, Rebel Saviour said:

Ciao, Maximilian. Personally I think she had issues with ear monitors and couldn't hear herself well.

Guys, I personally don't believe she had issues with the monitors. She sounded already not good at the rehearsl (independent of the quality of the audio clip of the rehearsal one can hear the pitch wasn't good). She has definitely not been training her voice (for years). I am a musician and I have been observing it for a long time now. She has a wonderful voice and some simple training routine would do wonders for her. It is a pity because it looks like she has been neglecting her voice...

[Genevieve Vavance]

51 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Where's a dramatic violin when you need it

Now we moved to age 61 already

[Paul]

Ive been away all weekend and only just saw the performance (in her YT channel). I dont understand the criticism of her performance - she sounds fine. Only the spoken part in the middle (which was lipped) was a bit weird, but i think its meant that way. the flags i only notices because of hearing about them, i wouldnt have even noticed them otherwise. and so what anyway? madonna has always promoted peace, so why not now.

[frzndrwnwrld]

7 minutes ago, whyme? said:

The general public can be very vicious, and they tend to not forget mess-ups. This is why this whole episode is so distressing. We see how the public destroyed the reputation of big name artists (michael, whitney, the list goes on....although, quite frankly, some deserved it). 

Madonna does not deserve it. So she had one bad night, big deal. Like I said before, I think people secretly are infatuated with her and really like her. She just didn't meet their expectations that night...

I think the performance would have been better if she had time to do a 3rd song. A classic 80s song like La Isla Bonita. 

Just doing Medellin and La Isla Bonita would have been perfect. Something to bridge them would be even better, like she did with Dark Ballet.

[frzndrwnwrld]

2 minutes ago, Paul said:

Ive been away all weekend and only just saw the performance (in her YT channel). I dont understand the criticism of her performance - she sounds fine. Only the spoken part in the middle (which was lipped) was a bit weird, but i think its meant that way. the flags i only notices because of hearing about them, i wouldnt have even noticed them otherwise. and so what anyway? madonna has always promoted peace, so why not now.

Yes, most people just watching it on her YouTube channel won't understand what the big deal was and that's a good thing.

[Confessit]

4 minutes ago, whyme? said:

The general public can be very vicious, and they tend to not forget mess-ups. This is why this whole episode is so distressing. We see how the public destroyed the reputation of big name artists (michael, whitney, the list goes on....although, quite frankly, some deserved it). 

Madonna does not deserve it. So she had one bad night, big deal. Like I said before, I think people secretly are infatuated with her and really like her. She just didn't meet their expectations that night...

I think the performance would have been better if she had time to do a 3rd song. A classic 80s song like La Isla Bonita. 

Madonna has made a a career out of wheathering storms though she has gone down in history as one of the most controversial artists of all time.

Bette Davis was once asked by a journalist when comparing her to her beautiful contempories, did you ever set your sights on being a braitiful movie star? 

Bette Davis replied No dear, I set my sights on being memeorbale.

[VogueMusic]

37 minutes ago, Carey said:

a lot of you need to let this go.

the more fuel you give to it, the more it's going to spiral.

she's been taking this kind of flak for nearly 40 years, sometimes the criticism is fair and a lot of the times it isn't (in both cases it is usually misplaced and goes too far into hating but i digress)

we have to learn as a collective not to give this stuff power and more importantly not to take it so personally.

and we also have to learn to accept critical opinions that don't think everything she does is the second coming, i happened to enjoy saturday but many didn't and providing it doesn't become a personal attack on her as a human being, that's valid.

Well said. 

[Kim]

2 minutes ago, Paul said:

Ive been away all weekend and only just saw the performance (in her YT channel). I dont understand the criticism of her performance - she sounds fine. Only the spoken part in the middle (which was lipped) was a bit weird, but i think its meant that way. the flags i only notices because of hearing about them, i wouldnt have even noticed them otherwise. and so what anyway? madonna has always promoted peace, so why not now.

You're watching the 'fixed' version. And yes, the political element was obscure, which is either good or bad depending on your viewpoint.

[Monkey]

I'm still upset. What a waste of opportunity. How a joyfull performance with 2 hits and Medellin (for instance), and good vocals (of course) would have made wonder for her reputation here in Europe as the queen of pop. Instead of that we had this obscure manifesto that nobody understood with bad vocals and an autotuned raggamufin song. Oh well...

[santiago]

KEEP THIS SHIT OUT OF HERE

Edited May 20, 2019 by Kim

[Confessit]

5 minutes ago, Kim said:

You're watching the 'fixed' version. And yes, the political element was obscure, which is either good or bad depending on your viewpoint.

Just so I understand it then please....there is still no offcial upload from Eurovision but Madonnas people have now released the performance?

[LVX]

Just now, Confessit said:

Just so I understand it then please....there is still no offcial upload from Eurovision but Madonnas people have now released the performance?

Correct.

[Kim]

2 minutes ago, Confessit said:

Just so I understand it then please....there is still no offcial upload from Eurovision but Madonnas people have now released the performance?

I don't know or care. Let's just pretend this shambles never happened 

[Confessit]

4 minutes ago, LVX said:

Correct.

Lush.

[Confessit]

3 minutes ago, Kim said:

I don't know or care. Let's just pretend this shambles never happened 

 I know what you mean dear. 

[Crystal Coffin]

20 minutes ago, side_streets said:

You are right. Although you really like her a lot, you are very critical when it comes to this performance. 

Right from the beginning, I was never thrilled to have yet another performance of "Like a Prayer" which is overdone (and therefore has lost much of its mystic appeal) at this point, although I am totally cool with "Future". I agreed wholeheartedly with @karbatal to leave LAP to SAINT CECILIA children's choir or some rubbish like that. That might be a joke but the message was serious and look at the state we are in now

She could have opened with I RISE or MUSIC, and then flowed into the beautiful interlude going all snarky to the Israeli government and yes, ended with "Future". But it's all done, oh well. 

[Confessit]

1 minute ago, tasteinmen said:

The fact there is a whole panel discussing her speaks volumes. At 60, still getting everyone to talk about her, job done?

also, that guy on the right, awful, he clearly just down right hates her. The fan really let Piers have it lol.

Don't get me started.

Your right though I've just addressed this in the UK thread...Piers never watches the Eurovision he hates it but he watched just for Madonna that's the power of an icon right there.

Look, being objective I agree about how she looked that heavy armour and eye patch was all very hard edged and it did distract from her beauty....although I get it she was deleivering a hard message so it suited the mood. 

[Andra]

I can't stop feeling sad about this and for her.  Sad, pissed and confused.  I don't understand how a huge moment like this went so wrong. I don't understand how in the last few years most of what she does becomes yet another opportunity for the public to viciously attack her and for her name to take blow after blow, it's exhausting and downright fucked up.

[Kim]

21 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I'm still upset. What a waste of opportunity. How a joyfull performance with 2 hits and Medellin (for instance), and good vocals (of course) would have made wonder for her reputation here in Europe as the queen of pop. Instead of that we had this obscure manifesto that nobody understood with bad vocals and an autotuned raggamufin song. Oh well...

No. The idea Madonna would have appeared at this vile Hunger Games event while atrocities are being carried out a few miles away and acted like it was a celebration is abhorrent.

What she could have done was a 'light into dark' performance. A good version of LAP to lull the audience into a false sense of security then BAM. She could have recognised (and I'm being kind here) that she had a sore throat or something  so dug out one of her  pre-record "live" tracks and did a Super Bowl, she could have recognised that Quavo is a fucking idiot and not invited him, she could have recognised that Future is the worst of all the new songs so far and so adapted another to fit her message. She could stop banning facial close ups of her performances so the audience can get more visually and emotionally engaged in it  (the eyes are the windows to the soul afterall..)

Just a few examples, but to sing (eg) Holiday. Music and Medellin? Not this year anyway.

[Andra]

Her ignoring everything and continuing to post photos and videos from the performance in spite of the hate... honestly makes me cry.

Yes I'm dramatic, leave me alone.

[MichaelDieker]

The performance was great, so what she went off key like twice, there wasn't even a need to pitch correct it for her Youtube channel, a couple missed notes, LAP went on a little long, but the spoken word interlude and Future were incredible. Yea Quavo is kinda dull. But it's the media trying to make this some giant failure when it clearly wasn't. Madonna is fine, and she's right to be proud of what she did.

[Intervention_78]

I thought the performance was good but for Madonna being good is not good enough. People, specially her fans, have come to expect a lot more from her. She really needs to find another classic to perform, I mean she has a lot to choose from unlike other artists who can only rely on a few tunes. LAP has been done way too many times already. And this guy Quavo, has absolute no stage presence at all. He just seemed to be standing there uncomfortably. She does a whole lot better when it's only her or other female singers (Nikki, Britney, xTina, MIA, etc..). The main thing that I was happy that she didn't bring back was those silly holograms. I really hope we don't have to see those ever again. 

[the-queen]

I’m glad she’s still promoting it. She’s meant to cower and do as she’s told because of some negative feedback? Anyone would think she beheaded dancers live on stage. Big deal. Life goes on.

[Flip The Switch]

[Andra]

Just now, the-queen said:

 I’m glad she’s still promoting it. She’s meant to cower and do as she’s told because of some negative feedback? Anyone would think she beheaded dancers live on stage. Big deal. Life goes on.

If you referred to my post, I'm actually glad she's doing it.

[Msig]

2 hours ago, david86 said:

This version is absolutely beautiful. I don't know what they did to the live broadcast, as images were switched for weird angles of the ceiling lights. You might as well think they(esf) messed up the sound too.

The broadcast directors cutting away from the Palestinian flag as soon as they realized it was there. However, they failed to react until the flag was off screen.

[Django]

Y'all need a chill pill, or a nice joint. 

[Msig]

41 minutes ago, Confessit said:

Just so I understand it then please....there is still no offcial upload from Eurovision but Madonnas people have now released the performance?

Correct. The EBU most likely don't have the rights to upload it on the Eurovision YouTube channel - and that was allegedly one of the contract issues.