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I thought Messiah was a definite Frozen allusion and LIWB certainly aped PDP.

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I absolutely agree. I've run into this sort of person at lease a dozen times since the album came out (I've also run into a dozen people who love the album). At these times, I've swallowed my pride and asked simply, "Why? What is it about the album that you don't connect to?"

They tend to narrow it down to two things: subject matter (BIM, HW, Illuminati... you get it); and, less so, some of the vocals (I've heard many people say they found the LFL chorus grating, for example; BIM...).

When I point out that there are just as many traditionally mature pop songs that are totally Madonna, and that they could just make their own "best of" playlist if they are so turned off by some songs, some of them shrug and others half-heartedly agree. Which I think gets us to a third point: there is simply too much material for some people, and they won't put in the time to pick and choose.

Their loss, no fucking doubt! The only upside to this is that most people do know she has an album out this time around :lol:

I still can't get over the fact that no one in the US knows LFL or GT. These two songs are so rich, and so totally Madonna, that their bombing offends me at a deeply personal level.

The ones who don't like the album are usually the ones who hate the Rebel tracks (BIM, Holy Water etc.) I just don't understand why so many fans don't get BIM and think that it has terrible lyrics and she's trend chasing. They taking everything she does very seriously and don't see the message and humor in the song. If she was preaching about self empowerment on Express Yourself then the BIM campaign is the embodiment of it. "Oh god she's so ridiculous!" hello? This entire song is meant to be ridiculous! And I have seen fans analyzing how bad the lyrics are as if it's a dissertation :rotfl: Musically it's her most trail blazing song in YEARS. She's the very first mainstream artist to dip into PC music.

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The ones who don't like the album are usually the ones who hate the Rebel tracks (BIM, Holy Water etc.) I just don't understand why so many fans don't get BIM and think that it has terrible lyrics and she's trend chasing. They taking everything she does very seriously and don't see the message and humor in the song. If she was preaching about self empowerment on Express Yourself then the BIM campaign is the embodiment of it. "Oh god she's so ridiculous!" hello? This entire song is meant to be ridiculous! And I have seen fans analyzing how bad the lyrics are as if it's a dissertation :rotfl: Musically it's her most trail blazing song in YEARS. She's the very first mainstream artist to dip into PC music.

.

I stopped looking completely at other Madonna forums after reading continual put downs of Madonna. However, I thought they would be more receptive after Rebel Heart was released. However, when I went back to have a look, there they were, going on and on about a few songs they don't like and it was obvious to me that they want to dislike things and did not even properly listen to the album. People gloating about not even wanting to go to her tour etc. Depressing stuff. So in saying all that, I don't understand this logic. Nobody has to love every song on an album but Rebel Headt has so much depth and different songs for everyone. Plus, it there is some songs they don't like, they can easily just skip them. How hard is that to do ? If people are fans of Madonna, surely they should know by now that she has the best variety of music of anyone and unlike other stars, has the ability and bravery to do it all.

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Still a good album and now i love ALL versions of the tracks (demos & released) which makes it even more difficult to make my own playlist of the album. It's her best album in years.

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.

I stopped looking completely at other Madonna forums after reading continual put downs of Madonna. However, I thought they would be more receptive after Rebel Heart was released. However, when I went back to have a look, there they were, going on and on about a few songs they don't like and it was obvious to me that they want to dislike things and did not even properly listen to the album. People gloating about not even wanting to go to her tour etc. Depressing stuff. So in saying all that, I don't understand this logic. Nobody has to love every song on an album but Rebel Headt has so much depth and different songs for everyone. Plus, it there is some songs they don't like, they can easily just skip them. How hard is that to do ? If people are fans of Madonna, surely they should know by now that she has the best variety of music of anyone and unlike other stars, has the ability and bravery to do it all.

I totally agree. I feel like this album paints such a complete picture of who she is as an artist and a woman that I find it a little strange that some people dismiss huge parts of the album. Every song, every theme is a part of her artistic narrative/journey and to complain about a whole set of songs, as a stan, is like dismissing a large part of who she is imo

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So I finally updated my all time favorite Madonna countdown with the Rebel Heart songs. This is a countdown I maintain of all of her officially released tracks, so it's well over 200 titles. For each of her last three albums, only one song entered the all time top 20. But with Rebel Heart, three entries!

Inside Out, my fourth favorite Madonna song of all time

Messiah, my seventh favorite Madonna song of all time.

Joan of Arc, my fourteenth favorite Madonna song of all time.

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So I finally updated my all time favorite Madonna countdown with the Rebel Heart songs. This is a countdown I maintain of all of her officially released tracks, so it's well over 200 titles. For each of her last three albums, only one song entered the all time top 20. But with Rebel Heart, three entries!

Inside Out, my fourth favorite Madonna song of all time

Messiah, my seventh favorite Madonna song of all time.

Joan of Arc, my fourteenth favorite Madonna song of all time.

SomeofShane, love your choices. Inside out, Messiah and Joan of Arc are all favourite songs of mine too. This album is filled with brilliant songs. I never tire of it.

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So I finally updated my all time favorite Madonna countdown with the Rebel Heart songs. This is a countdown I maintain of all of her officially released tracks, so it's well over 200 titles. For each of her last three albums, only one song entered the all time top 20. But with Rebel Heart, three entries!

Inside Out, my fourth favorite Madonna song of all time

Messiah, my seventh favorite Madonna song of all time.

Joan of Arc, my fourteenth favorite Madonna song of all time.

My countdown is always changing with the album. IO and Messiah are always up near top too.

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The ones who don't like the album are usually the ones who hate the Rebel tracks (BIM, Holy Water etc.) I just don't understand why so many fans don't get BIM and think that it has terrible lyrics and she's trend chasing. They taking everything she does very seriously and don't see the message and humor in the song. If she was preaching about self empowerment on Express Yourself then the BIM campaign is the embodiment of it. "Oh god she's so ridiculous!" hello? This entire song is meant to be ridiculous! And I have seen fans analyzing how bad the lyrics are as if it's a dissertation :rotfl: Musically it's her most trail blazing song in YEARS. She's the very first mainstream artist to dip into PC music.

this :clap: :clap: it was called Rebel Heart for a reason and they didnt get it

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The ones who don't like the album are usually the ones who hate the Rebel tracks (BIM, Holy Water etc.) I just don't understand why so many fans don't get BIM and think that it has terrible lyrics and she's trend chasing. They taking everything she does very seriously and don't see the message and humor in the song. If she was preaching about self empowerment on Express Yourself then the BIM campaign is the embodiment of it. "Oh god she's so ridiculous!" hello? This entire song is meant to be ridiculous! And I have seen fans analyzing how bad the lyrics are as if it's a dissertation :rotfl: Musically it's her most trail blazing song in YEARS. She's the very first mainstream artist to dip into PC music.

I disagree. I like BIM enough as a funny, energetic type of a song, but to call it rebellious is exaggerated. It's a song about having a party. There's nothing rebellious about that (except if you're a teen and you have to "rebel" against your parents). I don't think it's the embodiment of anything except current pop culture, nor that the lyrics are bad: they're appropriate for what the song is. Trailblazing? I don't see it. Holy Water is much more interesting both musically and lyrically. It's actually one of my RH favorite songs and is actually rebellious, because it reacts to a social/moral authority.

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I disagree. I like BIM enough as a funny, energetic type of a song, but to call it rebellious is exaggerated. It's a song about having a party. There's nothing rebellious about that (except if you're a teen and you have to "rebel" against your parents). I don't think it's the embodiment of anything except current pop culture, nor that the lyrics are bad: they're appropriate for what the song is. Trailblazing? I don't see it. Holy Water is much more interesting both musically and lyrically. It's actually one of my RH favorite songs and is actually rebellious, because it reacts to a social/moral authority.

I disagree. The message of BIM (and most rebel tracks) has a lot to do with her as a 56 year old pop star. BIM wouldn't have made any sense if it were a 28 year old Madonna singing it. The rebel side of this campaign is basically her just "playing" the age cards and INTENTIONALLY causing strong reactions. She could've sung something transparent like "I'm a 56 year old hag who still loves to party! I fight ageism unapologetically!" to make sure that the dumbest person on earth can understand her message, but that's just not the way Maodnna conveys her art. She doesn't preach, she provokes. It really is just the same situation with the Erotica era of which her message didn't become clear and understood by most people until decades later. You may think I'm overanalyzing but if you read her Rebel Heart interviews (the ones she did before the era started), she talked a lot about ageism, which makes me think that "age" was an important element on the rebel songs, she just didn't make it very explicit.

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I still listen to all or parts of the album almost every day. It is a brilliant album. The one song that I listen to almost every night is Wash All Over Me. It is so hypnotic and beautiful. The bliss of the melody, the lyrics, and her vocals are all sublime. The track is so full of different emotions that however I feel at the moment, so does the song.

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My only complaint, which is absurd, is that it's a bit too long. I love that it's so long, because that means more and more great tracks. But i love listening to the albums as a whole and this time it's incredibly difficult.

I always end up turning it off in Iconic because I have to leave or read or something.

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I disagree. I like BIM enough as a funny, energetic type of a song, but to call it rebellious is exaggerated. It's a song about having a party. There's nothing rebellious about that (except if you're a teen and you have to "rebel" against your parents). I don't think it's the embodiment of anything except current pop culture, nor that the lyrics are bad: they're appropriate for what the song is. Trailblazing? I don't see it. Holy Water is much more interesting both musically and lyrically. It's actually one of my RH favorite songs and is actually rebellious, because it reacts to a social/moral authority.

You miss the point.

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You miss the point.

:lmao:

***

And silence me with BITTERNESS AND LIES :smile:

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Inside Out, my fourth favorite Madonna song of all time

:excl: IT REALLY IS A GEM OF AN ALBUM CUT. I need a live performance, or an interlude at least.

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And silence me with BITTERNESS AND LIES :smile:

oh shut up, you, with that ! :lol:

tumblr_nq90e0n8vS1qbnoiyo1_500.gif

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'Joan of Arc' was mentioned on a buzzfeed article about great songs of the Summer to check out... I keep seeing this track mentioned in casual places and casual fans liking it a lot.

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I disagree. The message of BIM (and most rebel tracks) has a lot to do with her as a 56 year old pop star. BIM wouldn't have made any sense if it were a 28 year old Madonna singing it. The rebel side of this campaign is basically her just "playing" the age cards and INTENTIONALLY causing strong reactions. She could've sung something transparent like "I'm a 56 year old hag who still loves to party! I fight ageism unapologetically!" to make sure that the dumbest person on earth can understand her message, but that's just not the way Maodnna conveys her art. She doesn't preach, she provokes. It really is just the same situation with the Erotica era of which her message didn't become clear and understood by most people until decades later. You may think I'm overanalyzing but if you read her Rebel Heart interviews (the ones she did before the era started), she talked a lot about ageism, which makes me think that "age" was an important element on the rebel songs, she just didn't make it very explicit.

I agree with you only in terms of these being Madonna's intentions. But I don't agree that the execution of BIM (song/video) completely succeeds in conveying what you or Madonna or many others here think it so brilliantly conveys. Yes, some people may not get the message at all, but many other do get it. They just don't buy it, don't like it, don't believe it. I've heard many people say that they like the song but that she is creepy or trying too hard or don't even believe that she is a party person at all. Explaining that this is kind of the point usually doesn't make them go running to their itunes account. They still judge her to be creepy, tryhard, phony. Many other people have told me that they love that she's fighting ageism but think the song is too dumb "for Madonna" (these are also the people that always end their Madonna backstabbing essays with, "She looks great, though!"). Again, if you say that's kind of the point, they obviously are not going to all of a sudden start playing the song. (I should add I mostly talk to twenty- and thirty-somethings, no idea how this translates to younger people.)

My only point is that it's not that black or white. Most people probably fall somewhere in the middle. (To be clear, I fall in this category but mostly with MNation in that I love the song and I love the video; I just wish the lyrics and vocals were a little less moronic, but I think that's more a matter of taste than of morals; her vitality and curiosity and energy continue to influence and help me so much).

As for preaching... Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but I don't think there's a single pop act in music who is preachier than her. She's also incredibly literal. But she can also be just as obscure and symbolic, usually within the same song or performance. That's why she's the greatest pop legend that has ever lived.

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I disagree. The message of BIM (and most rebel tracks) has a lot to do with her as a 56 year old pop star. BIM wouldn't have made any sense if it were a 28 year old Madonna singing it. The rebel side of this campaign is basically her just "playing" the age cards and INTENTIONALLY causing strong reactions. She could've sung something transparent like "I'm a 56 year old hag who still loves to party! I fight ageism unapologetically!" to make sure that the dumbest person on earth can understand her message, but that's just not the way Maodnna conveys her art. She doesn't preach, she provokes. It really is just the same situation with the Erotica era of which her message didn't become clear and understood by most people until decades later. You may think I'm overanalyzing but if you read her Rebel Heart interviews (the ones she did before the era started), she talked a lot about ageism, which makes me think that "age" was an important element on the rebel songs, she just didn't make it very explicit.

Yes,yes & yes!

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I agree with you only in terms of these being Madonna's intentions. But I don't agree that the execution of BIM (song/video) completely succeeds in conveying what you or Madonna or many others here think it so brilliantly conveys. Yes, some people may not get the message at all, but many other do get it. They just don't buy it, don't like it, don't believe it. I've heard many people say that they like the song but that she is creepy or trying too hard or don't even believe that she is a party person at all. Explaining that this is kind of the point usually doesn't make them go running to their itunes account. They still judge her to be creepy, tryhard, phony. Many other people have told me that they love that she's fighting ageism but think the song is too dumb "for Madonna" (these are also the people that always end their Madonna backstabbing essays with, "She looks great, though!"). Again, if you say that's kind of the point, they obviously are not going to all of a sudden start playing the song. (I should add I mostly talk to twenty- and thirty-somethings, no idea how this translates to younger people.)

My only point is that it's not that black or white. Most people probably fall somewhere in the middle. (To be clear, I fall in this category but mostly with MNation in that I love the song and I love the video; I just wish the lyrics and vocals were a little less moronic, but I think that's more a matter of taste than of morals; her vitality and curiosity and energy continue to influence and help me so much).

As for preaching... Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but I don't think there's a single pop act in music who is preachier than her. She's also incredibly literal. But she can also be just as obscure and symbolic, usually within the same song or performance. That's why she's the greatest pop legend that has ever lived.

I feel the same way.

The greatness and downfall of BIM is that it covneys in less than 5 minures (both song and video) everything that Madonna stands for as of now in the collective conscious. A try hard who wants to recapture her 80s freshness and 90s edge while still trying to look young. All while gloryfing the current celebrity culture of being something for the sake of being in the spotlight.

If anything, BIM went from blandness to greatness by becoming a single. As many other Madonna songs in the past. Hung up itself comes to my mind... Awesome music/production/video, kinda lame lyrics, but a whole lotta message to convey to the audiences. This time, though, the pill's too hard to swallow, I think, and there's no glorious ABBA sample.

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I think she has succeeded so much with BIM, because no matter what she does she will be labelled wrong. So she went for the in your face strategy and clearly won

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I've been saying it since December but BIM is a Madonna classic.

Of course I think that's true of all three lead singles (which is wild bc 4 Minutes is probably the last classic shes put out but it almost goes back to HU).

RH really is an Iconic era and one fans will gush about years from now, we got so lucky

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The entire Rebel Heart song is distorted like Voices in HC.

Messiah is mostly fine but the second chorus has a terrible blow out sound.

As much as I love the record its sloppy mixing/mastering is definitely on par with MDNA

Living For Love: over-mixed vocals in the verses

Ghosttown: the paper burning/mic switching on sounds (no it's NOT intentional)

Bitch I'm Madonna: volume fluctuation

Hold Tight: drowned out vocals and the entire song is too quiet

Iconic: over-mixed vocals

HBC: obvious clipping

Body Shop: muffled vocals

Holy Water: Vogue instrumentals in the background WTF

Wash All Over Me: over-mixed vocals and the entire song is too quiet

Messiah: blow out sound

Rebel Heart: distorted drums

I'm no sound-freak but half of the album has major mixing issues :dazed:

But her albums since American Life have always been poorly mixed/mastered so I'm used to it :popcorn2:

The mixing issue reminds me of "Revolver" on Celebration. The vocals are too low in the mix. It's odd that they don't put more effort into making the mixes perfect. I don't remember this issues with older albums......or am I just too picky now? :o

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The mixing issue reminds me of "Revolver" on Celebration. The vocals are too low in the mix. It's odd that they don't put more effort into making the mixes perfect. I don't remember this issues with older albums......or am I just too picky now? :o

I think the vocal production/mixing is much better than on MDNA, but the overall mastering is very inconsistent and don't get me started on obvious editing mistakes. How can the people who are responsible for that not notice those things? I mean, that's their job, right? :D

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Guest Medoner

After all this hassle and the massive load of music and stuff we got all year mixed with my constant mood changes and weak decisioning skills ive finally got my opinion on a hold for the album

- it is one of the best Madonna albums everr..

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I'm not that damn picky, yet I'm also not an expert. I feel this is her most melodically effort in years and the lyrics are some of the best in years. The production is polished along with her vocals that emit emotions throughout.

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And Living for Love still one of her greatest songs.

I have to post this: I SO FVCKING AGREE!

LFL is an orgasm. It's quintessential Madonna, yet new and different. I haven't been this fond of a 1st single since Music. It's my favorite Madona song of the 2010s so far, hands down.

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