karbatal Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 30 minutes ago, elijah said: Which Palestine at this point? Gaza is self governing I think and the West Bank… well I don’t know how Israel and Palestine would divide that… Good luck! And how and when will you accept Palestine as free? Not to shift the blame, but many times the Palestine had a chance to have its state, but they never accepted it because they want all of it. Well no matter how they came to the holy land, how do Palestinian expect 10 mill Jews to evacuate “their land” (at this point)? I think the viable solution would probably be a federation between those two with a jew as a president and a Palestinian as vice president, self governing parts with central government like Belgium. All else would not be accepted by the Palestinians I would assume. How can you say that? You are using the same rethoric as Putin in Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 They are even proud of it. Horrible crimes can’t be answered with horrible crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acediace Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 hours ago, ULIZOS said: Free Palestine Free Israel and Palestine fron Hamas and all other terror organizations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Acediace said: Free Israel and Palestine fron Hamas and all other terror organizations https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyNjJYoOYrZ/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acediace Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, debord said: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyNjJYoOYrZ/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyMBXr8Is87/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Yeah I can do this too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Acediace said: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyMBXr8Is87/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Yeah I can do this too What does just repeating that violence occurred bring to the discussion? Unless you're also going to post about the over 10,000 Palestinians murdered in the past 20 years and the countless more maimed, injured, assaulted, raped and harassed, we need to do some other thinking right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acediace Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, karbatal said: They are even proud of it. Horrible crimes can’t be answered with horrible crimes. Proud??? You think that we are happy for this??? WKAE THE FUCK UP FROM THE NARRATIVE THAT YOU USE TO FRO YOUR COMFORTABLE CHAIR in I don't know where the fuck it is. WE ARE DEALING WITH FUCKING ISIS. none of us fucking happy for this!!! FUCKING NONEEEE!!!! When this barbaric "freedom fighters" murdered children and woman an kidnapped innocent people, they weren't like "yeah this is how we are gonna be free". THEY KNEW.THEY FUCKING KNEW, that the response from Israel is gonna be this. THEY KNEW!!! Hamas=Isis is the real problem of the Palestinian people. They know what they are doing. I just can't with people around the world thinking they know a glimpse of the history of Israel showing maps from 1948, screaming "occupation occupation occupation " knowing nothing about what's going on here for decades. Not that I'm expecting that my messages will change your minds. I really don't give a fuck, it's just that I have the need to focus on unless shit because I can see and hear about all of happened anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadFan Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 hours ago, ULIZOS said: Free Palestine From Hamas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Just now, MadFan said: From Hamas... Nah, from apartheid and occupation. Which will also free Israelis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acediace Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, debord said: Nah, from apartheid and occupation. Which will also free Israelis. No honey. Israelis are free. The thing thats prevents us from true freedom and happiness is Palestinian terrorists and Iran. Go visit Gaza... I'm sure that they will accept gay madonna fan with open arms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Acediace said: Bo honey. Israelis are free. The thing thats prevents us from true freedom and happiness is Palestinian terrorists and Iran. Go visit Gaza... I'm sure that they will accept gay madonna fan with open arms The thing that prevents peace is occupation, as Hannah Arendt predicted. And weirdly enough I don't think the human rights of a region, or opposition to apartheid, relies on their attitudes to gay Madonna fans. Given Israel is fond of blackmailing the queer Palestinians it discovers through its mass surveillance of the Palestinian people I don't think its leaders do either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadFan Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, debord said: Nah, from apartheid and occupation. Which will also free Israelis. I keep seeing these buzz words thrown around this extremely complicated issue (Israel bad, Palestine good!) and it's beyond tedious at this point. This is a perspective which ignores thousands of years of history throughout the region and the nature of wars. The Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Macedonians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks, Ottomans, and others have been up and down that area. Litigating lineage and historical claims is how they will stay in a perpetual conflict. What’s most important is the here and now. Now that Jews and Palestinians share the land, which is the best path forward? That’s what everyone should be focused on and putting their energy toward solving. The best analogy I can think of is what would happen if the US tried to deport all 11 million illegal immigrants? Even Republican president Reagan couldn’t see a way through it, so he ended up giving amnesty. Granting that the Jews are strangers to the land (and that’s a huge grant), then they would have arrived in British Palestine in considerable numbers as refugees, following their expulsion from Europe via pogroms and the Holocaust. Generations later, nearly all of them were born there - ergo, it's their home. So how exactly do you “undo” that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Just now, MadFan said: I keep seeing these buzz words thrown around this extremely complicated issue (Israel bad, Palestine good!) and it's beyond tedious at this point. This is a perspective which ignores thousands of years of history throughout the region and the nature of wars. The Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Macedonians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks, Ottomans, and others have been up and down that area. Litigating lineage and historical claims is how they will stay in a perpetual conflict. What’s most important is the here and now. Now that Jews and Palestinians share the land, which is the best path forward? That’s what everyone should be focused on and putting their energy toward solving. The best analogy I can think of is what would happen if the US tried to deport all 11 million illegal immigrants? Even Republican president Reagan couldn’t see a way through it, so he ended up giving amnesty. Granting that the Jews are strangers to the land (and that’s a huge grant), then they would have arrived in British Palestine in considerable numbers as refugees, following their expulsion from Europe via pogroms and the Holocaust. Generations later, nearly all of them were born there - ergo, it's their home. So how exactly do you “undo” that? Apartheid is not a "buzzword". It was only recognising apartheid in South Africa which helped lead to its end. I wholeheartedly agree people should share the land, the power imbalance in who is a block on that is not what you're told it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acediace Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyLsnquNaVq/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Acediace said: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyLsnquNaVq/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== You keep posting this stuff and ignoring that the violence meted out against Palestinians by Israel is infinitely greater. Indeed as we are seeing right now as it yet again engages in illegal collective punishment to satisfy an unhjnged nationalist fervour. Just repeatedly pointing that out goes nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme? Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 53 minutes ago, debord said: You keep posting this stuff and ignoring that the violence meted out against Palestinians by Israel is infinitely greater. Indeed as we are seeing right now as it yet again engages in illegal collective punishment to satisfy an unhjnged nationalist fervour. Just repeatedly pointing that out goes nowhere. What do you think drives this nationalism? Decades and decades of Islamic terror, suicide bombings on buses and cafes, stabbings, shootings, tens of thousands of rocket launches on innocent civilians, package bombs, murders, and now the horrific events on Saturday - the second largest terror attack in history. You call this “resistance”!? I can’t believe someone on this message board says that. That’s bullshit. They want every Jew in Israel dead - plain and simple. You open that border and trust me, that country israel won’t exist anymore. It’ll turn into an horrid place to live. The Palestinians need to change themselves, their thinking, and their leadership. So done with blaming Israel for everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, whyme? said: What do you think drives this nationalism? Decades and decades of Islamic terror, suicide bombings on buses and cafes, stabbings, shootings, tens of thousands of rocket launches on innocent civilians, package bombs, murders, and now the horrific events on Saturday - the second largest terror attack in history. You call this “resistance”!? I can’t believe someone on this message board says that. That’s bullshit. They want every Jew in Israel dead - plain and simple. You open that border and trust me, that country israel won’t exist anymore. It’ll turn into an horrid place to live. The Palestinians need to change themselves, their thinking, and their leadership. So done with blaming Israel for everything! Um....nationalism is the very root of the Israeli state. I can keep repeating that decades of violence has been meted out, on a much larger scale, until the cows come home. The first step towards peace is the end of the occupation. And I'm so done with folk who've evidently never done the slightest bit of research into history just aggressively repeating racist tropes about unreasonable, uncivilised Muslims and thinking that gives moral authority just cos it aligns with a mindset at the core of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyme? Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, debord said: Um....nationalism is the very root of the Israeli state. I can keep repeating that decades of violence has been meted out, on a much larger scale, until the cows come home. The first step towards peace is the end of the occupation. And I'm so done with folk who've evidently never done the slightest bit of research into history just aggressively repeating racist tropes about unreasonable, uncivilised Muslims and thinking that gives moral authority just cos it aligns with a mindset at the core of power. And what about your tropes saying Israeli Jews are racist, rapists, ethnic cleansers, occupiers!? Stop the bullshit. That sounds like shit trump said about Mexicans. I just can’t. And don’t tell us on this board to go do our research as if we don’t know anything. What a dumb thing to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, whyme? said: And what about your tropes saying Israeli Jews are racist, rapists, ethnic cleansers, occupiers!? Stop the bullshit. That sounds like shit trump said about Mexicans. I just can’t. It says a lot that you have go resort to this nonsense. I haven't said a single thing about "Israeli Jews". Plenty of Jewish people, inside Israel and around the world, oppose apartheid. I have pointed out, in response to repeated descriptions of Hamas violence, that the Israeli state has carried out the same and on a much larger scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acediace Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 34 minutes ago, whyme? said: What do you think drives this nationalism? Decades and decades of Islamic terror, suicide bombings on buses and cafes, stabbings, shootings, tens of thousands of rocket launches on innocent civilians, package bombs, murders, and now the horrific events on Saturday - the second largest terror attack in history. You call this “resistance”!? I can’t believe someone on this message board says that. That’s bullshit. They want every Jew in Israel dead - plain and simple. You open that border and trust me, that country israel won’t exist anymore. It’ll turn into an horrid place to live. The Palestinians need to change themselves, their thinking, and their leadership. So done with blaming Israel for everything! This. Fucking this. And we really saw Saturday that literally if the border is open, Israel is no more. But this reality is just don't fit the narrative of "Israel - strong bad evil occupation, Palestinians - poor weak victims" And after year of the media showing *only* the actions of Israel while ignoring our victims and their constant terror action all over Israel,not only people keep with that fucked up "oh oh its so provocative to be with Palestine, nobody ever support them", people just can't deal with the fact that the Palestine is a failed group that all they did in these years is developing their terror organizations. No other country will deal differently with situation like this. You blame Israel for all of it? Where is the world? Where is Egypt, Jordan or Iran? What the fuck they did to help the Palestinian people? What your country did? Even Israel has to give them water and electricity while getting rockets from them for 23 years, and you people keep staying in the narrative that stuck deep in your mind Wake the fuck up. Even Palestinian people that live in Israel don't want anything to do with Gaza anymore. Wake the fuck up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acediace Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyNHTxDOWv-/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 38 minutes ago, Acediace said: This. Fucking this. And we really saw Saturday that literally if the border is open, Israel is no more. But this reality is just don't fit the narrative of "Israel - strong bad evil occupation, Palestinians - poor weak victims" And after year of the media showing *only* the actions of Israel while ignoring our victims and their constant terror action all over Israel,not only people keep with that fucked up "oh oh its so provocative to be with Palestine, nobody ever support them", people just can't deal with the fact that the Palestine is a failed group that all they did in these years is developing their terror organizations. No other country will deal differently with situation like this. You blame Israel for all of it? Where is the world? Where is Egypt, Jordan or Iran? What the fuck they did to help the Palestinian people? What your country did? Even Israel has to give them water and electricity while getting rockets from them for 23 years, and you people keep staying in the narrative that stuck deep in your mind Wake the fuck up. Even Palestinian people that live in Israel don't want anything to do with Gaza anymore. Wake the fuck up "Israel has to give them water and electricity" it's a blockade. That's kinda the point. And the idea the media disproportionately covers Israeli crimes as opposed to Palestinian ones is so divorced from the reality that it's laughable. Everyone in the world knows what Hamas did a few days ago. Almost no-one will know what has been happening in 2023 and the hundreds of Palestinea murdered unless they are already paying attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, Acediace said: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyNHTxDOWv-/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== "Following Jesus of Nazareth" I mean could you be more on the nose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acediace Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, debord said: "Israel has to give them water and electricity" it's a blockade. That's kinda the point. And the idea the media disproportionately covers Israeli crimes as opposed to Palestinian ones is so divorced from the reality that it's laughable. Everyone in the world knows what Hamas did a few days ago. Almost no-one will know what has been happening in 2023 and the hundreds of Palestinea murdered unless they are already paying attention. Yeah? And I'm sure that you know what the Palestinians terrorist did in 2023 (before all of this) and how many israeli were murdered by terror actions. You know small little cool thing like stabbing and shooting. I'm sure the media that you consumed show that to you. This is exactly like what I've said before, you people have no fucking idea what the fuck is the true reality over year. People keep saying "oh oh oh the WOrld IS ÀlwAys WitH ISrahell But NEver with Palestine, " while, they never even heat about our victims. FUCKING NEVER. only when Istael is responding. This time it's just so horrible that you can't deny this. But this is the fucking reality over here. 9 minutes ago, debord said: "Following Jesus of Nazareth" I mean could you be more on the nose Yes is a bit too religious for me but that no the main message of the video right? There are so many pro Palestinian people that celebrating this. That bitch in the video is nothing less than a terrorist, that fucking bitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acediace Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyI8mNpIbHA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijah Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 53 minutes ago, debord said: You should read about the proposed partition plans for Palestine back in the day and wonder why you would no doubt agree that Ukraine should not have to give up any of its territory, but you blame the Palestinians for not eagerly doing the same on very bad terms. It's also telling to just blame Palestine for being unreasonable when Israel has been continuing ethnic cleansing with absolutely no-one who is suddenly piping up now about violence condemning it. The basis of the "peace agreement" was meant to be a two-state solution but Israel has made that impossible. It's clear that a single democratic state with equal rights for all is the only remotely viable path at this point. I ve read extensively on the matter, thank you very much. I dont see any paralels between Ukraine and Palestine by the way. The HUGE difference: RU recognized UKR in their international borders back in 1991. Untill 2013 RU didnt have any pretensions against UKR territory. Now Palestine was never recognized by Israel, nor was Israel ever regognized by the Palestine... They were never two mutually recognized states living side by side UNLIKE Russia and Ukraine (basically existing by each side and in friendly relations from 1991 till 2013). So, really, I see no paralels in those situations. Sure, there are RU minorities within UKR, but I really wonder where would those prefer to live in presently IF a democratic referendum is held: I would assume UKR in the vast majority. Now I am not urging Palestinians to give up their land. I never was. I was merely making an observation that the Palestinians had multiple times the chance to have their independant state (from the 40ties onward) and UNFORTUNATELY with each passing year their proposed territory shrinks. I am not justifying Israels actions in West Bank, thats for sure. What I am saying is that Israel and Palestine have not recognized each other as a state for decades... Israel is the obvious stronger side in this conflict and is using the time to enlarge the territories it was assigned in the 40ties. Anyways, Israel had to fight wars and was victorious in all of them and gained control of most of the Palestinian assigned territories. At this point neither seems ready to back down and thats why I see only a federal state as a viable solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijah Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 4 hours ago, karbatal said: How can you say that? You are using the same rethoric as Putin in Ukraine. How exacly? I dont see your logic. Please elaborate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runa Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Since 2008, 6407 Palestinians were killed while 308 Israelis were killed in the context of the occupation and conflict. Those are official numbers from the United Nations. FACTS. Not Instagram posts from nobodies. That was before the attack, obviously. Having said that, I condemn the Hamas attack against Israel. If they wanted to make things worse for Palestinians, well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acediace Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 25 minutes ago, runa said: Since 2008, 6407 Palestinians were killed while 308 Israelis were killed in the context of the occupation and conflict. Those are official numbers from the United Nations. FACTS. Not Instagram posts from nobodies. https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties. That was before the attack, obviously. Having said that, I condemn the Hamas attack against Israel. If they wanted to make things worse for Palestinians, well done. Some of these nobodies are people from Israel who went through the attacks that you condemn or know somebody that was brutally murdered, butchered, burned, kidnapped and raped. Don't call them nobodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debord Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Acediace said: Yeah? And I'm sure that you know what the Palestinians terrorist did in 2023 (before all of this) and how many israeli were murdered by terror actions. You know small little cool thing like stabbing and shooting. I'm sure the media that you consumed show that to you. This is exactly like what I've said before, you people have no fucking idea what the fuck is the true reality over year. People keep saying "oh oh oh the WOrld IS ÀlwAys WitH ISrahell But NEver with Palestine, " while, they never even heat about our victims. FUCKING NEVER. only when Istael is responding. This time it's just so horrible that you can't deny this. But this is the fucking reality over here. Yes is a bit too religious for me but that no the main message of the video right? There are so many pro Palestinian people that celebrating this. That bitch in the video is nothing less than a terrorist, that fucking bitch Just constantly repeating that there is violence and swearing isn't an argument. And 'the media that I consumed'? If I based my views on Israel/Palestine solely on the media, I would be a rabid supporter of Israel. We can see right now that our governments are all looking the other way as Israel commits horrific war crimes, just as they look the other way as it commits ethnic cleansing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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