Israel and Hamas war

[Camacho]

 

[sotos8]

Τhis has made me sick ,first Ukraine now Armenia and Israel ,horror everywhere 

[whyme?]

What happened yesterday in Israel was nothing short of a Pogrom - antisemitic attack against Jews. Almost 1,000 dead so far - it is absolutely unacceptable that Palestinian terrorists murdered hundreds of Jewish civilians in cold blood, kidnapped woman children and old ladies!!!! WTF is this world coming to!? Why regular people? Young girls, teenagers, people partying is a desert music festival (that was promoting peace!!), they went house to house, slaughtering innocent families. This is like their 9/11.
I see Madonna has posted about this. I know Israelis and palestinians have gone through this forever, but I'm sorry, this is abhorrent!

 

 

[whyme?]

What exactly do these Hamas terrorists want from kidnapping this old lady!? jesus... And this poor israeli girl was clearly just raped up the ass :(

[karbatal]

We are already discussing this in the instagram thread. It is true that ot should be discussed here. BTW the picture of the children in cages is fake. Meanwhile 78 Palestinian children had died in the last 24 hours because of the indiscriminate bombings in Gaza. 

[debord]

14 minutes ago, karbatal said:

We are already discussing this in the instagram thread. It is true that ot should be discussed here. BTW the picture of the children in cages is fake. Meanwhile 78 Palestinian children had died in the last 24 hours because of the indiscriminate bombings in Gaza. 

There's also footage of violence against Palestinians on pretty much a daily basis so you really have to ask questions when suddenly people notice.

[karbatal]

Everything about this is absolutely horrifying. Those poor people in the concert, those poor innocent people in both countries. I feel so bad with all the information pouring. Everything is so gratuitous and evil from the terror group amd from those Israel rulers. Pure evil.

[Genevieve Vavance]

10 hours ago, debord said:

There's also footage of violence against Palestinians on pretty much a daily basis so you really have to ask questions when suddenly people notice.

of multiple disgusting men raping an innocent woman from Germany in the ass until she bleeds, then shooting her in the head and desecrating her lifeless body and spitting on it??

[debord]

Just now, Genevieve Vavance said:

of multiple disgusting men raping an innocent woman from Germany in the ass until she bleeds, then shooting her in the head and desecrating her lifeless body and spitting on it??

Yes, sexual violence is a common "tactic" used against Palestinian men and women, and there are plenty of videos of desecration of Palestinian bodies.

[elijah]

Hamas is a godawful organization, that should be eradicated. 

I wonder how peace could ever be acheved in Israel. There is too much hate on both sides. Maybe a dual state? Federal state, where one can veto the other? Because I dont know how the West Bank would be given to Palestina as there are many Israeli settlements already...

[debord]

20 minutes ago, elijah said:

Exactly. I am shocked and amazed at people who have never set foot in Eastern Europe, yet preach Eastern Europeans what NATO is/should be for them. NATO is first and foremost a shield against eventual Russian agression. The war in Ukraine prooved that the Eastern Europeans who have always been uneasy about the unpredictability of Russian agression (history!), were right to want to join as fast as they can. Its clear what Putin does to a small country near Russia's border just cause he has nuclear bombs and so that he might project a RU might or for a land grab (it makes him popular in RU) - Georgia, Ukraine just to name two. The agreesion and change of course is obvious post 2007 Putin Munich conference speech.

NATO was never agressive towards Russia. EU wanted to live peacefully with Russia. At one point there was a talk of RU joining NATO (2001). Certainly there was a round table with NATO. Untill recently. Germany and France were against any measures targeting Russia till Cremea debacle. Lets not rewrite history. Putin dislikes the West and wants USSR revived.

Firstly, folk really need to get over this notion that unless you're just shrieking 'HAMAS ARE EVIL! PUTIN IS EVIL!' repeatedly, you are 'justifying' them. I raised the nuances of the situation in Ukraine in response to the suggestion that Israel apartheid is 'complicated' while what's happening in Ukraine is not. I am no fan of Putin.

Now to repeat myself, NATO was created solely as a counterweight about the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is not modern Russia. And modern Russia isn't even, apparently, what it was for much of the 00s when Western governments helped put Putin in power and viewed him as an ally. The treatment of Putin is akin to something from 1984, where he went from an ally of the west to an evil bogeyman at dizzying speed. 

NATO expansion east, in violation of assurances given to the then-USSR, happened at a time when Yeltsin's Russia was a weak, crumbling state. It posed no threat. The reason it happened was to expand the sphere of influence of the USA and try to ensure no revival of Russian power, taking advantage of the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. The USA has its own interests, which is why it does everything it can to undermine states around it which do not align with them, yet it faces little of the opproprium for this that Putin does. And yes, in the early 00s Putin floated the idea of Russia joining NATO. Discussions evidently developed and there were closer partnerships agreed but accounts differ as to why it never happened - some academics believe that the USA was arrogant as Russia seemed like a spent force at the time, others believe that Russia ultimately rejected it.

What's in no dispute is that people have been warning for decades that NATO expansion east would lead to war. George Kennan, credited with being the architect of the USA's containment policy, predicted in 1998 that Russia would "gradually react adversely" to NATO expansion and it would be a "tragic mistake". William J Burns, who is the current director of the CIA, has warned for years, beginning in the 90s, the NATO expansion would lead to an aggressive response from Russia. In 1997 50 eminent foreign policy experts wrote an open letter to President Clinton warning that NATO expansion east was a "policy error of historic proportions". The Russian Ambassador to the USA warned in 2008 that Ukraine entering NATO would be a "red line" for Russia. NATO Secretary Jens Stoltenberg told the EU Parliament THIS YEAR that Russia had sent a draft treaty in 2021 where NATO would promise to further eastern expansion, promising not to invade Ukraine if it was signed. 

Putin doesn't want the USSR revised. Putin is not a communist. He explicitly said that while many people have fond feelings for the USSR, if they wanted it revived "they had no brains".

To repeat: I do not 'justify' Putin. I do not support him. I do not support the invasion. I merely give context and refuse to treat foreign affairs like it's a game of goodies and baddies, when our own governments do pretty much everything we loudly condemn in others.

[karbatal]

6 hours ago, Genevieve Vavance said:

of multiple disgusting men raping an innocent woman from Germany in the ass until she bleeds, then shooting her in the head and desecrating her lifeless body and spitting on it??

A refugee camp has been bombed by Israel today. Women and children dead. Their lives are as important as any German citizen. If people condemn Hamas they should confemn Israel too. They are both indiscriminate killers 
 

 

[karbatal]

And people should remember that Hamas was armed and supported by Israel in the 80s to fight against the Arafats OLP. Just like USA did with the Talibans in the Afghan war in the 80s. Israel is a terror state and the Israeli people are their first victims. Israel people deserve more than that terrorist elite ruling their country. 

[karbatal]

1 hour ago, elijah said:

Hamas is a godawful organization, that should be eradicated. 

I wonder how peace could ever be acheved in Israel. There is too much hate on both sides. Maybe a dual state? Federal state, where one can veto the other? Because I dont know how the West Bank would be given to Palestina as there are many Israeli settlements already...

First they should stop stealing the lands. The lands with WATER. But of course that’s not in the news when it happens. Israel is the bully who is friends with the principal. 

[sotos8]

The Root of Violence Is Oppression.

Right now, Palestinians, Israelis and all of us with family on the ground are terrified for loved ones. We grieve the lives of those already lost and remain committed to a future where every life is precious, and all people live in freedom and safety.  

Following 16 years of Israeli military blockade, Palestinian fighters from Gaza launched an unprecedented assault, in which hundreds of Israelis were killed and wounded, and civilians kidnapped. The Israeli government declared war, launching airstrikes, killing hundreds of Palestinians and wounding thousands, bombing residential buildings and threatening to commit war crimes against besieged Palestinians in Gaza. 

The Israeli government may have just declared war, but its war on Palestinians started over 75 years ago. Israeli apartheid and occupation — and United States complicity in that oppression — are the source of all this violence. Reality is shaped by when you start the clock. 

For the past year, the most racist, fundamentalist, far-right government in Israeli history has ruthlessly escalated its military occupation over Palestinians in the name of Jewish supremacy with violent expulsions and home demolitions, mass killings, military raids on refugee camps, unrelenting siege and daily humiliation. In recent weeks, Israeli forces repeatedly stormed the holiest Muslim sites in Jerusalem. 

For 16 years, the Israeli government has suffocated Palestinians in Gaza under a draconian air, sea and land military blockade, imprisoning and starving two million people and denying them medical aid. The Israeli government routinely massacres Palestinians in Gaza; ten-year-olds who live in Gaza have already been traumatized by seven major bombing campaigns in their short lives. 

For 75 years, the Israeli government has maintained a military occupation over Palestinians, operating an apartheid regime. Palestinian children are dragged from their beds in pre-dawn raids by Israeli soldiers and held without charge in Israeli military prisons. Palestinians homes are torched by mobs of Israeli settlers, or destroyed by the Israeli army. Entire Palestinian villages are forced to flee, abandoning the homes and orchards and land that were in their family for generations.

The bloodshed of today and the past 75 years traces back directly to U.S. complicity in the oppression and horror caused by Israel’s military occupation. The U.S. government consistently enables Israeli violence and bears blame for this moment. The unchecked military funding, diplomatic cover, and billions of dollars of private money flowing from the U.S. enables and empowers Israel’s apartheid regime. Those who continue calling for “ironclad” U.S. support for the Israeli military are only paving the path to more violence. 

From the U.S., there are no sidelines.  We will uproot complicity where we are: we demand that the U.S. government immediately take steps to withdraw military funding to Israel and to hold the Israeli government accountable for its gross violations of human rights and war crimes against Palestinians. We commit to escalating our campaigns for boycott, divestment and sanctions to end the billions pouring into the Israeli war machine from corporations and private foundations.

Inevitably, oppressed people everywhere will seek — and gain — their freedom. We all deserve liberation, safety, and equality. The only way to get there is by uprooting the sources of the violence, beginning with our own government’s complicity.

 

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/10/statement23-10-07/

[Acediace]

I can't deal with people talking nonsense, speaking with zero knowledge of what's happening in this area. I live here. I know this reality. You don't live here. none of you grew up with memories of exploding buses, with rockets flying into your neighborhoods. You talking about oppression bullshit. Israel left Gaze in 2005 in order to move toward peace. These fucking terrorist monsters spend all of their money on terror and keep growing. PEOPLE SINCE 2000 KEPT GETTING ROCKETS TO THEIR HOMES FROM GAZA IN THE PLACES WHERE THE HORRIFIC EVENTS WERE. SINCE 2009 THE CITY I LIVE IN STARTED TO JOIN THIS TERROR CYCLE. 
YOU FUCKING DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!
of course, the blame is on the Israeli government all these years that let this thing go on and on and on, but people can't deny that Israel is facing terrorism.
I'm afraid to get out of the house. I'm afraid the army is gonna call me to join the war. I'm afraid for my family and friends' lives. I can't stop thinking about all of these people that the monsters reached them. there is a Kibbutz that was completely destroyed, with nothing left of it... 

A young woman was at the party that was that night. they murdered her, dragged her naked body to Gaza "celebrated" her naked dead body on the street, assaulted her body, and filmed all of this and uploaded this on social media so Israelis would see it. She was from Germany, her mother made a video begging that her daughter's body would returned to her...Think about this case and imagine 1000 more like this ( as for now, we still don't know everything and there are more than 100 people kidnapped in Gaza)... you people talking about oppression... They are fucking monsters...

I have a Palestinian friend from college, and I've heard many Palestinians from Israel saying that from now on they consider themselves Israeli and not Palestinians
their attackers killed many arab people in Israel too

You don't know shit

[elijah]

3 hours ago, debord said:

Firstly, folk really need to get over this notion that unless you're just shrieking 'HAMAS ARE EVIL! PUTIN IS EVIL!' repeatedly, you are 'justifying' them. I raised the nuances of the situation in Ukraine in response to the suggestion that Israel apartheid is 'complicated' while what's happening in Ukraine is not. I am no fan of Putin.

Now to repeat myself, NATO was created solely as a counterweight about the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is not modern Russia. And modern Russia isn't even, apparently, what it was for much of the 00s when Western governments helped put Putin in power and viewed him as an ally. The treatment of Putin is akin to something from 1984, where he went from an ally of the west to an evil bogeyman at dizzying speed. 

NATO expansion east, in violation of assurances given to the then-USSR, happened at a time when Yeltsin's Russia was a weak, crumbling state. It posed no threat. The reason it happened was to expand the sphere of influence of the USA and try to ensure no revival of Russian power, taking advantage of the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. The USA has its own interests, which is why it does everything it can to undermine states around it which do not align with them, yet it faces little of the opproprium for this that Putin does. And yes, in the early 00s Putin floated the idea of Russia joining NATO. Discussions evidently developed and there were closer partnerships agreed but accounts differ as to why it never happened - some academics believe that the USA was arrogant as Russia seemed like a spent force at the time, others believe that Russia ultimately rejected it.

What's in no dispute is that people have been warning for decades that NATO expansion east would lead to war. George Kennan, credited with being the architect of the USA's containment policy, predicted in 1998 that Russia would "gradually react adversely" to NATO expansion and it would be a "tragic mistake". William J Burns, who is the current director of the CIA, has warned for years, beginning in the 90s, the NATO expansion would lead to an aggressive response from Russia. In 1997 50 eminent foreign policy experts wrote an open letter to President Clinton warning that NATO expansion east was a "policy error of historic proportions". The Russian Ambassador to the USA warned in 2008 that Ukraine entering NATO would be a "red line" for Russia. NATO Secretary Jens Stoltenberg told the EU Parliament THIS YEAR that Russia had sent a draft treaty in 2021 where NATO would promise to further eastern expansion, promising not to invade Ukraine if it was signed. 

Putin doesn't want the USSR revised. Putin is not a communist. He explicitly said that while many people have fond feelings for the USSR, if they wanted it revived "they had no brains".

To repeat: I do not 'justify' Putin. I do not support him. I do not support the invasion. I merely give context and refuse to treat foreign affairs like it's a game of goodies and baddies, when our own governments do pretty much everything we loudly condemn in others.

Sorry, but to teach a Bulgarian what USSR or Russia was and is is pretty funny. I perfectly well know what the Russian empire was, what USSR was, what Russia is presently. Actually, most Eastern Europeans, especially those coming from ex communist states, are the ones who have LIVED the RU influence.

No official/documented assurances for not expanding NATO were given to USSR. Gorbachov says that was discussed, but nothing written down came out of it. RU didn't protest NATO expansion post 97, into Eastern Europe, until 2008 promise that Georgia and Ukraine would be accepted.

I wasn't commenting on WHY NATO was created. Of course NATO WAS created, because of USSR. I was commenting on the fact that post communism for most Eastern Europeans NATO guaranteed freedom, investment, development. It was a guarantee that RU would not invade tommorow. And most Eastern Europeans might have looked hysterical in the 90ties for a Western European (Poland warned Germano-french EU engine of the dangers of stronger Russia) but in the end they were right to push for entering into NATO. If they didn't, they might have been the next Georgia, Ukraine or Moldova, that didn't manage to enter into NATO before the respective RU aggression. USA didn't press the Eastern Europeans to join NATO. All of the states joined willingly, because they wanted protection from RU. And as it turned out: rightfully so. The fact that Ukraine wanted NATO/EU integration post 2008/2013 shouldn't come as a surprise: it is bordering several NATO/EU states and it is very easy to see how Poland or Romania or Hungary have developed especially after EU accession. It is not shocking UKR wants the same. Historically UKR have been for centuries in the Polish-lithuanian commonwealth. Both Poland & Lithuania are wishing EU since 2004. 

The fact that some US analisysts or CIA officers have warned NATO expansion could lead to war doesn't mean NATO isn't vital for many states and millions of ppl. Ukraine war proved how important NATO membership is still in 2023. Its no wonder FIN and SWE are joining NATO. I am convinced NATO expansion benefitted Europe immensely, especially Eastern Europe with its fragile democracy. NATO was not aggressive towards RU until last year.

The draft treaty RU sent to USA (mind you, in RU eyes Europe shouldn't have a seat on the negotiating table, although their proposal concerns devision of Europe) in late 2021 demanded that NATO returns to its pre 1997 borders: meaning pre Eastern European expansion. No Eastern European nation could have been OK with it and I m shocked you don't understand this. Or act like you don't understand it. Or like it was a sane or acceptable proposal.

Putin wants USSR revived. And yes, he isn't a communists, he wants the oligarchists, fashist, "conservative", anti liberal, antidemocratic regime (= antihuman) that is now in power in RU to be implemented in Eastern Europe too, in previous USSR/Warsaw pact borders. Putin has said countless times that the biggest geopolitical mistake of 20 century was USSR dissolution. No matter what he says, he is a liar. We should look at his actions, not his words. The fact that he invaded a free country is a proof he has zero respect for international law and sovereignty of any state, that he deems weaker than RU. The way RU acts in 2022-2023 is dangerous and unacceptable, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it.

[karbatal]

Meanwhile the EU suspends the humanitarian help to Palestine. Of course hungry children and poor people are to blame. 

[karbatal]

49 minutes ago, Acediace said:

I can't deal with people talking nonsense, speaking with zero knowledge of what's happening in this area. I live here. I know this reality. You don't live here. none of you grew up with memories of exploding buses, with rockets flying into your neighborhoods. You talking about oppression bullshit. Israel left Gaze in 2005 in order to move toward peace. These fucking terrorist monsters spend all of their money on terror and keep growing. PEOPLE SINCE 2000 KEPT GETTING ROCKETS TO THEIR HOMES FROM GAZA IN THE PLACES WHERE THE HORRIFIC EVENTS WERE. SINCE 2009 THE CITY I LIVE IN STARTED TO JOIN THIS TERROR CYCLE. 
YOU FUCKING DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!
of course, the blame is on the Israeli government all these years that let this thing go on and on and on, but people can't deny that Israel is facing terrorism.
I'm afraid to get out of the house. I'm afraid the army is gonna call me to join the war. I'm afraid for my family and friends' lives. I can't stop thinking about all of these people that the monsters reached them. there is a Kibbutz that was completely destroyed, with nothing left of it... 

A young woman was at the party that was that night. they murdered her, dragged her naked body to Gaza "celebrated" her naked dead body on the street, assaulted her body, and filmed all of this and uploaded this on social media so Israelis would see it. She was from Germany, her mother made a video begging that her daughter's body would returned to her...Think about this case and imagine 1000 more like this ( as for now, we still don't know everything and there are more than 100 people kidnapped in Gaza)... you people talking about oppression... They are fucking monsters...

I have a Palestinian friend from college, and I've heard many Palestinians from Israel saying that from now on they consider themselves Israeli and not Palestinians
their attackers killed many arab people in Israel too

You don't know shit

Your opinion is very important because you live there. We simply add what nobody in western governments seem to remember. Every one of us think that Hamas are evils and what they did is horrifying. We simply comment that the solution is not bombing innocent people and kill children. That was not the solution either after 11S when the USA went to bomb Afghanistan.

In 2004 Al Qaeda Moroccan killed 204 people in Madrid in a terror attack. We did not bombed innocent people in Morocco.

[debord]

3 minutes ago, elijah said:

Sorry, but to teach a Bulgarian what USSR or Russia was and is is pretty funny. I perfectly well know what the Russian empire was, what USSR was, what Russia is presently. Actually, most Eastern Europeans, especially those coming from ex communist states, are the ones who have LIVED the RU influence.

No official/documented assurances for not expanding NATO were given to USSR. Gorbachov says that was discussed, but nothing written down came out of it. RU didn't protest NATO expansion post 97, into Eastern Europe, until 2008 promise that Georgia and Ukraine would be accepted.

I wasn't commenting on WHY NATO was created. Of course NATO WAS created, because of USSR. I was commenting on the fact that post communism for most Eastern Europeans NATO guaranteed freedom, investment, development. It was a guarantee that RU would not invade tommorow. And most Eastern Europeans might have looked hysterical in the 90ties for a Western European (Poland warned Germano-french EU engine of the dangers of stronger Russia) but in the end they were right to push for entering into NATO. If they didn't, they might have been the next Georgia, Ukraine or Moldova, that didn't manage to enter into NATO before the respective RU aggression. USA didn't press the Eastern Europeans to join NATO. All of the states joined willingly, because they wanted protection from RU. And as it turned out: rightfully so. The fact that Ukraine wanted NATO/EU integration post 2008/2013 shouldn't come as a surprise: it is bordering several NATO/EU states and it is very easy to see how Poland or Romania or Hungary have developed especially after EU accession. It is not shocking UKR wants the same. Historically UKR have been for centuries in the Polish-lithuanian commonwealth. Both Poland & Lithuania are wishing EU since 2004. 

The fact that some US analisysts or CIA officers have warned NATO expansion could lead to war doesn't mean NATO isn't vital for many states and millions of ppl. Ukraine war proved how important NATO membership is still in 2023. Its no wonder FIN and SWE are joining NATO. I am convinced NATO expansion benefitted Europe immensely, especially Eastern Europe with its fragile democracy. NATO was not aggressive towards RU until last year.

The draft treaty RU sent to USA (mind you, in RU eyes Europe shouldn't have a seat on the negotiating table, although their proposal concerns devision of Europe) in late 2021 demanded that NATO returns to its pre 1997 borders: meaning pre Eastern European expansion. No Eastern European nation could have been OK with it and I m shocked you don't understand this. Or act like you don't understand it. Or like it was a sane or acceptable proposal.

Putin wants USSR revived. And yes, he isn't a communists, he wants the oligarchists, fashist, "conservative", anti liberal, antidemocratic regime (= antihuman) that is now in power in RU to be implemented in Eastern Europe too, in previous USSR/Warsaw pact borders. Putin has said countless times that the biggest geopolitical mistake of 20 century was USSR dissolution. No matter what he says, he is a liar. We should look at his actions, not his words. The fact that he invaded a free country is a proof he has zero respect for international law and sovereignty of any state, that he deems weaker than RU. The way RU acts in 2022-2023 is dangerous and unacceptable, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it.

Not true that the assurances given to the USSR re: NATO have no evidence - the National Security Archives at George Washington Uni released documentary evidence in 2017. But we can go back and forth on the reality of NATO until the end of time - the fact remains that anyone who thinks it's about guaranteeing 'democracy' or 'freedom' simply needs to look at the behaviour of the USA (and other western countries - the British Empire was still a thing, albeit in its dying days, when NATO was created!) The USA has invaded 'free countries' and continues to meddle in the affairs of sovereign states around the world. I already said I don't support Russia. I just don't buy into the simplistic goodie/baddie narrative. Look at how American responds whenever any country anywhere close to it elects a socialist government and then tell me that Russia not wanting countries at its border in NATO is somehow wildly different.

And my family background is Lithuanian, btw.

[karbatal]

Just an example. Referring to innocent people who are not part of Hamas as animals. Fucking CUNT. In the Gaza Strip live ONE MILLION children. They are as evil as Hamas.

 

[karbatal]

At least we still have United Nations asking for help for the innocent people who are not part of any terrorist group. The mother however is clear: “I know we are going to die”.

 

[debord]

58 minutes ago, Acediace said:

I can't deal with people talking nonsense, speaking with zero knowledge of what's happening in this area. I live here. I know this reality. You don't live here. none of you grew up with memories of exploding buses, with rockets flying into your neighborhoods. You talking about oppression bullshit. Israel left Gaze in 2005 in order to move toward peace. These fucking terrorist monsters spend all of their money on terror and keep growing. PEOPLE SINCE 2000 KEPT GETTING ROCKETS TO THEIR HOMES FROM GAZA IN THE PLACES WHERE THE HORRIFIC EVENTS WERE. SINCE 2009 THE CITY I LIVE IN STARTED TO JOIN THIS TERROR CYCLE. 
YOU FUCKING DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!
of course, the blame is on the Israeli government all these years that let this thing go on and on and on, but people can't deny that Israel is facing terrorism.
I'm afraid to get out of the house. I'm afraid the army is gonna call me to join the war. I'm afraid for my family and friends' lives. I can't stop thinking about all of these people that the monsters reached them. there is a Kibbutz that was completely destroyed, with nothing left of it... 

A young woman was at the party that was that night. they murdered her, dragged her naked body to Gaza "celebrated" her naked dead body on the street, assaulted her body, and filmed all of this and uploaded this on social media so Israelis would see it. She was from Germany, her mother made a video begging that her daughter's body would returned to her...Think about this case and imagine 1000 more like this ( as for now, we still don't know everything and there are more than 100 people kidnapped in Gaza)... you people talking about oppression... They are fucking monsters...

I have a Palestinian friend from college, and I've heard many Palestinians from Israel saying that from now on they consider themselves Israeli and not Palestinians
their attackers killed many arab people in Israel too

You don't know shit

I'm sorry but you living in Israel means you know the feeling of what you're experiencing, not that you necessarily have an authority on the politics. Clearly much of Israel has kept voting in governments which want to continue the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the blockade of Gaza (recognised as occupation by the UN and more). That's wrong, and while I can understand your fears the behaviour of Hamas doesn't make it right.

[whyme?]

3 hours ago, Acediace said:

I can't deal with people talking nonsense, speaking with zero knowledge of what's happening in this area. I live here. I know this reality. You don't live here. none of you grew up with memories of exploding buses, with rockets flying into your neighborhoods. You talking about oppression bullshit. Israel left Gaze in 2005 in order to move toward peace. These fucking terrorist monsters spend all of their money on terror and keep growing. PEOPLE SINCE 2000 KEPT GETTING ROCKETS TO THEIR HOMES FROM GAZA IN THE PLACES WHERE THE HORRIFIC EVENTS WERE. SINCE 2009 THE CITY I LIVE IN STARTED TO JOIN THIS TERROR CYCLE. 
YOU FUCKING DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!
of course, the blame is on the Israeli government all these years that let this thing go on and on and on, but people can't deny that Israel is facing terrorism.
I'm afraid to get out of the house. I'm afraid the army is gonna call me to join the war. I'm afraid for my family and friends' lives. I can't stop thinking about all of these people that the monsters reached them. there is a Kibbutz that was completely destroyed, with nothing left of it... 

A young woman was at the party that was that night. they murdered her, dragged her naked body to Gaza "celebrated" her naked dead body on the street, assaulted her body, and filmed all of this and uploaded this on social media so Israelis would see it. She was from Germany, her mother made a video begging that her daughter's body would returned to her...Think about this case and imagine 1000 more like this ( as for now, we still don't know everything and there are more than 100 people kidnapped in Gaza)... you people talking about oppression... They are fucking monsters...

I have a Palestinian friend from college, and I've heard many Palestinians from Israel saying that from now on they consider themselves Israeli and not Palestinians
their attackers killed many arab people in Israel too

You don't know shit

Hope you’ll be safe and sound. What happened in Israel is like September 11th. It’s horrific. More Jews died two days ago than in any single day in the last 80 years - since the Holocaust. We can’t accept this hatred in our world anymore. 

[ULIZOS]

11 hours ago, Acediace said:

I can't deal with people talking nonsense, speaking with zero knowledge of what's happening in this area. I live here. I know this reality. You don't live here. none of you grew up with memories of exploding buses, with rockets flying into your neighborhoods. You talking about oppression bullshit. Israel left Gaze in 2005 in order to move toward peace. These fucking terrorist monsters spend all of their money on terror and keep growing. PEOPLE SINCE 2000 KEPT GETTING ROCKETS TO THEIR HOMES FROM GAZA IN THE PLACES WHERE THE HORRIFIC EVENTS WERE. SINCE 2009 THE CITY I LIVE IN STARTED TO JOIN THIS TERROR CYCLE. 
YOU FUCKING DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!
of course, the blame is on the Israeli government all these years that let this thing go on and on and on, but people can't deny that Israel is facing terrorism.
I'm afraid to get out of the house. I'm afraid the army is gonna call me to join the war. I'm afraid for my family and friends' lives. I can't stop thinking about all of these people that the monsters reached them. there is a Kibbutz that was completely destroyed, with nothing left of it... 

A young woman was at the party that was that night. they murdered her, dragged her naked body to Gaza "celebrated" her naked dead body on the street, assaulted her body, and filmed all of this and uploaded this on social media so Israelis would see it. She was from Germany, her mother made a video begging that her daughter's body would returned to her...Think about this case and imagine 1000 more like this ( as for now, we still don't know everything and there are more than 100 people kidnapped in Gaza)... you people talking about oppression... They are fucking monsters...

I have a Palestinian friend from college, and I've heard many Palestinians from Israel saying that from now on they consider themselves Israeli and not Palestinians
their attackers killed many arab people in Israel too

You don't know shit

Free Palestine  

[promise to try]

10 hours ago, karbatal said:

Meanwhile the EU suspends the humanitarian help to Palestine. Of course hungry children and poor people are to blame. 

I have read that thanks to some countries (Ireland, spain, and I don´t remember the third) the help is not going to be suspended.But that doesn´t mean that the aid is going to get to gaza.

This situation is hell on earth in so many levels. Is pure shit. I hope, I wish nobody dies, but I´m afraid it doesn´t look good, for anybody there.

[promise to try]

11 hours ago, elijah said:

Sorry, but to teach a Bulgarian what USSR or Russia was and is is pretty funny. I perfectly well know what the Russian empire was, what USSR was, what Russia is presently. Actually, most Eastern Europeans, especially those coming from ex communist states, are the ones who have LIVED the RU influence.

No official/documented assurances for not expanding NATO were given to USSR. Gorbachov says that was discussed, but nothing written down came out of it. RU didn't protest NATO expansion post 97, into Eastern Europe, until 2008 promise that Georgia and Ukraine would be accepted.

 

this is really ineteresting.I think it was a huge mistake by gorbachov, it seems so clear to me,that I don´t get how come nobody wrote and signed something about that possible situation.I mean, one thing is to end the USSR and other to have the USA´s missils so close to Moscow. NATO has been the biggest asset the USA has had to control the world and do whatever they wanted to do anywhere 

[elijah]

37 minutes ago, promise to try said:

this is really ineteresting.I think it was a huge mistake by gorbachov, it seems so clear to me,that I don´t get how come nobody wrote and signed something about that possible situation.I mean, one thing is to end the USSR and other to have the USA´s missils so close to Moscow. NATO has been the biggest asset the USA has had to control the world and do whatever they wanted to do anywhere 

It’s the view of a Spanish citizen tucked nicely in the West and NATO embrace since the 70ties. Now imagine being Georgian or Ukrainian or Moldovan who were on the brink of joining NATO and now get zero arm forces in case of RU invasion. I think bordering RU could change one’s perspective. Ask FIN or SWE. Anyways I think it’s logical at the time neither RU nor NATO seeked any arrangement regarding enlargement. At the time neither view each other as the enemy. Eastern Europe was left to decide its fate and that’s why you have states like Serbia not wanting to join NATO and no one’s pressuring them. As I said there were talks of RU joining NATO and eu and at that time I thought they would. However after 2002 Dugin came up with the idea of Russian world just in time when Putin s two terms as a president envisioned in the RU constitution were coming to an end. He became brutal in order to preserve power. It all came tumbling down in 2013 with the maidan Ukrainian protest where it was obvious Ukraine is heading to the west and has chosen democratic path. Ukr with all its huge problems have always had free elections since 1991 unlike RU. That and the fear he could end up as Sadam made Russian people prisoners of him. Of course most were manipulated to hate the west. Indeed until recently NATO wasn’t used against RU. And I hope it never will be. It certainly would never attack RU first and Putin knows it. He simply wanna stay in power indefinitely to “save RU”…

[elijah]

1 hour ago, ULIZOS said:

Free Palestine  

Which Palestine at this point? Gaza is self governing I think and the West Bank… well I don’t know how Israel and Palestine would divide that… Good luck! And how and when will you accept Palestine as free? Not to shift the blame, but many times the Palestine had a chance to have its state, but they never accepted it because they want all of it. Well no matter how they came to the holy land, how do Palestinian expect 10 mill Jews to evacuate “their land” (at this point)? I think the viable solution would probably be a federation between those two with a jew as a president and a Palestinian as vice president, self governing parts with central government like Belgium. All else would not be accepted by the Palestinians I would assume.

[debord]

15 minutes ago, elijah said:

Which Palestine at this point? Gaza is self governing I think and the West Bank… well I don’t know how Israel and Palestine would divide that… Good luck! And how and when will you accept Palestine as free? Not to shift the blame, but many times the Palestine had a chance to have its state, but they never accepted it because they want all of it. Well no matter how they came to the holy land, how do Palestinian expect 10 mill Jews to evacuate “their land” (at this point)? I think the viable solution would probably be a federation between those two with a jew as a president and a Palestinian as vice president, self governing parts with central government like Belgium. All else would not be accepted by the Palestinians I would assume.

You should read about the proposed partition plans for Palestine back in the day and wonder why you would no doubt agree that Ukraine should not have to give up any of its territory, but you blame the Palestinians for not eagerly doing the same on very bad terms. It's also telling to just blame Palestine for being unreasonable when Israel has been continuing ethnic cleansing with absolutely no-one who is suddenly piping up now about violence condemning it.

The basis of the "peace agreement" was meant to be a two-state solution but Israel has made that impossible. It's clear that a single democratic state with equal rights for all is the only remotely viable path at this point.