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10 minutes ago, promise to try said:

sorry but I haven´t seen anything about it on the news here...which two groups are fighting? I´m asking this out of ignorance

Jews and Arabs Inside Israel, not between Israelis and Palestinians from Gaza or the East Bank. And we are talking about mixed cities that have lived in peace and quiet for many years....
I'm sure you gonna hear about it and see it soon, So many horrible videos and pictures... True madness...  You would've thought that a global pandemic will make people cherish life more... guess not

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33 minutes ago, promise to try said:

sorry but I haven´t seen anything about it on the news here...which two groups are fighting? I´m asking this out of ignorance

Is it not in the Spanish news?????? I only watch Euronews now so I don't follow Spanish news but normally these issues are widely covered! 

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After 20 years of working as a journalist (now not anymore) I've seen a pattern in this conflict. Israel always provokes Palestine and when Hamas responds they clutch pearls and kill dozens and dozens. 
 

The blatant racism against Muslims is incredibly nauseating, especially considering that most living in Israel are descendants of people who were prosecuted during Nazism. The fact that they didn't learn the lesson of how religion can't be a target to discriminate and kill makes you wonder. 
 

After a whole century of unfair and fabricated wars in the Persian gulf area, and the racism in West countries, I'm surprised radicals aren't bombing us all each day. Muslims are suffering so much. It's really unfair.

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50 minutes ago, karbatal said:

After 20 years of working as a journalist (now not anymore) I've seen a pattern in this conflict. Israel always provokes Palestine and when Hamas responds they clutch pearls and kill dozens and dozens. 
 

The blatant racism against Muslims is incredibly nauseating, especially considering that most living in Israel are descendants of people who were prosecuted during Nazism. The fact that they didn't learn the lesson of how religion can't be a target to discriminate and kill makes you wonder. 
 

After a whole century of unfair and fabricated wars in the Persian gulf area, and the racism in West countries, I'm surprised radicals aren't bombing us all each day. Muslims are suffering so much. It's really unfair.

And as someone who live here and the memories of his childhood are - buses exploding, terrorist exploding themself at restaurants and rcokets being sent to his neighborhood, I can tell you that The Palestinian side provokes Israel side too... "provokes" is a very small word to explain this....
Hamas is a terror organization that specificly taget civilians... Hamas  are not those who "responds". they are those that causes the problam and they DO NOT care about Palestinians too... especially not Gaza

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1 minute ago, Acediace said:

And as someone who live here and the memories of his childhood are - buses exploding, terrorist exploding themself at restaurants and rcokets being sent to his neighborhood, I can tell you that The Palestinian side provokes Israel side too... "provokes" is a very small word to explain this....
Hamas is a terror organization that specificly taget civilians... Hamas  are not those who "responds". they are those that causes the problam and they DO NOT care about Palestinians too... especially not Gaza

I only know about what reporters say, which of course is far less than what a person living there experiences. And I love learning. 

What is reported normally is this. This is an example of what happened in the year 2000. Being my first month as journalist in the newspaper it impressed me very much:

- Things are quiet (in terms of international news) 

- Ariel Sharon goes to the Mosque Esplanade (is that the name in English?) on a Muslim sacred day. It's packed with Muslims.

- A tumult is made. 

- Teen-agers throw stones.

- The counter attack is brutal. 

- Children are killed. Palestinian families call for revenge. 

- Bombings from Palestinian terrorists 

- Far bigger and violent counter attack. 

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21 minutes ago, karbatal said:

I only know about what reporters say, which of course is far less than what a person living there experiences. And I love learning. 

What is reported normally is this. This is an example of what happened in the year 2000. Being my first month as journalist in the newspaper it impressed me very much:

- Things are quiet (in terms of international news) 

- Ariel Sharon goes to the Mosque Esplanade (is that the name in English?) on a Muslim sacred day. It's packed with Muslims.

- A tumult is made. 

- Teen-agers throw stones.

- The counter attack is brutal. 

- Children are killed. Palestinian families call for revenge. 

- Bombings from Palestinian terrorists 

- Far bigger and violent counter attack. 

I agree that ther is something problematic  about what's being reported and what's not... I dont really blame ignorance about what's happening here from people around the world, Its the media fault. But people need to understand that and take...

I also totally agree that theres provocative acts from the Israeli side. The "leaders" from the Israeli far right have done stupid action especially recently that raised the heat of everything that's happening these days...

I only wish for better days. Cause I am truly horrified from recent events. With Hamas what's happening will stop eventually (for some time)... but the situation between Jews and arabs  inside Israel won't... I wish that there will be true leaders as soon as possible in Israel that will actually care and do something to fix all this. It's about fucking time

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14 minutes ago, Acediace said:

I agree that ther is something problematic  about what's being reported and what's not... I dont really blame ignorance about what's happening here from people around the world, Its the media fault. But people need to understand that and take...

I also totally agree that theres provocative acts from the Israeli side. The "leaders" from the Israeli far right have done stupid action especially recently that raised the heat of everything that's happening these days...

I only wish for better days. Cause I am truly horrified from recent events. With Hamas what's happening will stop eventually (for some time)... but the situation between Jews and arabs  inside Israel won't... I wish that there will be true leaders as soon as possible in Israel that will actually care and do something to fix all this. It's about fucking time

In the end it's people who suffer on both sides. And leaders are the ones who are to blame. 

Spain had a terrorist group which killed more than a thousand people for 40 years. It disappeared only five or so years ago. Most  of the victims were innocent people.  And the roots of the problem were incredibly complicated. People from both sides suffering. Once terrorism steps in, things get violent and full of complicated actors. 

I hope you stay safe.

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It's difficult to get a handle on what's going on here from outside but I do know that the very worst worst worst people in the west support Israel no matter what, and I do wonder why that is.

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The biggest problem in the whole discussion has always been and still is, it is impossible to criticize the State of Israel, its politics and actions, without being put in the anti-semitic corner. Of course, it all is result of the Holocaust. Especially in Germany, at least in politics, there is no open criticism when it comes to Israels policies in the region. It's a no go. The level of self-censorship is astounding. Of course, it is not helpful in any way. 

I would like to believe that the majority of people, especially the younger generations in Israel are sick and tired of this conflict. They most likely are in not in favor of Israels policies regarding Palestine and the constant annexion of Palestinian land for new settlements. I don't know if those younger generations are not as politically involved (I don't think so, there have been several demonstrations to vote out Netanyahu), but they are obviously not in power. In power are the conservative and ultra-conservative parties. And who are the ultra-conservatives? Are they the descendants of the Holcocaust survivors? No. The overall majority are immigrants from Russia. They are also the ones living in the illegal settlements. They are the ones rejecting any social progress on all levels. They are very much acting in their very own interest, not necessarily the State of Israel and its citizens. And unfortunately this particular group has way too much influence in the Israeli parliament and government. This group of people that see themselves as something special, a group that does not even want to be part of society and rejects the social norms of a modern society, has this amount of power. To make matters worse, they most likely don't even see themselves as Israelis, the see themselves merely as Jews. And because of that, it all comes down to religion when infact this conflict cannot be solved as long as the parties involved start to have discussions as two independent states. And any party needs to adress mistakes make on their sides first. But I doubt that Israel will ever do that because from their perspective everything they do, is to defend the existence of State of Israel, even when other countries and human rights organisations say Israels actions and provocations are often the reason for this conflict to never end. 

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28 minutes ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

The biggest problem in the whole discussion has always been and still is, it is impossible to criticize the State of Israel, its politics and actions, without being put in the anti-semitic corner. Of course, it all is result of the Holocaust. Especially in Germany, at least in politics, there is no open criticism when it comes to Israels policies in the region. It's a no go. The level of self-censorship is astounding. Of course, it is not helpful in any way. 

I would like to believe that the majority of people, especially the younger generations in Israel are sick and tired of this conflict. They most likely are in not in favor of Israels policies regarding Palestine and the constant annexion of Palestinian land for new settlements. I don't know if those younger generations are not as politically involved (I don't think so, there have been several demonstrations to vote out Netanyahu), but they are obviously not in power. In power are the conservative and ultra-conservative parties. And who are the ultra-conservatives? Are they the descendants of the Holcocaust survivors? No. The overall majority are immigrants from Russia. They are also the ones living in the illegal settlements. They are the ones rejecting any social progress on all levels. They are very much acting in their very own interest, not necessarily the State of Israel and its citizens. And unfortunately this particular group has way too much influence in the Israeli parliament and government. This group of people that see themselves as something special, a group that does not even want to be part of society and rejects the social norms of a modern society, has this amount of power. To make matters worse, they most likely don't even see themselves as Israelis, the see themselves merely as Jews. And because of that, it all comes down to religion when infact this conflict cannot be solved as long as the parties involved start to have discussions as two independent states. And any party needs to adress mistakes make on their sides first. But I doubt that Israel will ever do that because from their perspective everything they do, is to defend the existence of State of Israel, even when other countries and human rights organisations say Israels actions and provocations are often the reason for this conflict to never end. 

Of course younger generations in Israel are sick and tired of all of it. not only young people... I think that the main reason Netanyahu is being  voted again ans again is because of fear... for some reasone some people feel that he bring security ... why? i don't know. Israel is having conflict with Hamas every few years, people are dying and still "he bring secuity"... Its fucked up.  see this as the same thing that happend with trump in usa... there are more and more voices of people that are sick and tired and want Netanyahu out, but the election system here is fucked up too. Many people also want to limit the years that one man can be prime-minister just like the president in usa...
Fuckd up reality. We all want things to change here... There is hope now because of recent elections... but who knows... We'll have to see after the current conflict will be resolved

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https://www.elcorreo.com/internacional/oriente-proximo/marcado-casa-pueden-20210513184607-ntrc.html

 

weird, I had never heard about the arab minority in israel, and now this news appears in the news. In this case, some members of the arabic minority from israel are scared because they have written a sign in their house and they fear an attack.

 acediace, I really hope things don´t go further with this!

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1 hour ago, promise to try said:

https://www.elcorreo.com/internacional/oriente-proximo/marcado-casa-pueden-20210513184607-ntrc.html

 

weird, I had never heard about the arab minority in israel, and now this news appears in the news. In this case, some members of the arabic minority from israel are scared because they have written a sign in their house and they fear an attack.

 acediace, I really hope things don´t go further with this!

I have a feeling it's gonna get worst unfortunately... there are so many acts of violence between Israelis Jews and Arabs... Lynches on people, Synagogues are burning down, vandalism in stores... It's really fucked up. It's not everywhere, but it very concerning... and so many people express hate right now... It's like people are blind with hate... Scary shit... hope it will get better... There will be a truce eventually between Israel and Hamas, but the situation between Arab and Jews In Israel will take time to fix 

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9 hours ago, Acediace said:

I have a feeling it's gonna get worst unfortunately... there are so many acts of violence between Israelis Jews and Arabs... Lynches on people, Synagogues are burning down, vandalism in stores... It's really fucked up. It's not everywhere, but it very concerning... and so many people express hate right now... It's like people are blind with hate... Scary shit... hope it will get better... There will be a truce eventually between Israel and Hamas, but the situation between Arab and Jews In Israel will take time to fix 

Well, if the bombing in Palestine is so overwhelming that 18 children have died already and the Israel Government says they are going to send the troops to the Territories... I guess the thing is really escalating. 

I have been humming this song these days. Israeli singer Noa explaining the conflict in a song. Hawk and Sparrow. 

 

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12 hours ago, Acediace said:

I have a feeling it's gonna get worst unfortunately... there are so many acts of violence between Israelis Jews and Arabs... Lynches on people, Synagogues are burning down, vandalism in stores... It's really fucked up. It's not everywhere, but it very concerning... and so many people express hate right now... It's like people are blind with hate... Scary shit... hope it will get better... There will be a truce eventually between Israel and Hamas, but the situation between Arab and Jews In Israel will take time to fix 

Which Israeli town do you live in - I guess it's a mixed area? 

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3 hours ago, Crystal Coffin said:

Which Israeli town do you live in - I guess it's a mixed area? 

yes its mostly in the mixed areas, places that Jews and Arabs live peacefully in harmony. 
I live in the south, the areas that get the most rockets from Gaza. So around here the problem is in the roads... people get rocks thrown at their cars and stuff like that... But there's also a lot of heat in streets in many cities...   lots of extremists from both groups that cause lots of violence.  And to think that  its all after (and during)  the mass of Covid. thanks to the vaccine the situation with covid is so much better here, but it feels like its a cycle after cycle. Fucked up 

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1 hour ago, Acediace said:

yes its mostly in the mixed areas, places that Jews and Arabs live peacefully in harmony. 
I live in the south, the areas that get the most rockets from Gaza. So around here the problem is in the roads... people get rocks thrown at their cars and stuff like that... But there's also a lot of heat in streets in many cities...   lots of extremists from both groups that cause lots of violence.  And to think that  its all after (and during)  the mass of Covid. thanks to the vaccine the situation with covid is so much better here, but it feels like its a cycle after cycle. Fucked up 

I am very sorry to hear that. Especially if normally the situation is peaceful and in harmony. 
 

I hope this gets better. Please keep us updated.

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Isn't Israel a totally made up country by the Western world in the Palestine land in the first place? And why have they been building houses in the Palestinian side in recent years? Nothing against the Israeli public but unfortunately I hate the Israeli state. 

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18 hours ago, smirnoff_ice said:

Isn't Israel a totally made up country by the Western world in the Palestine land in the first place? And why have they been building houses in the Palestinian side in recent years? Nothing against the Israeli public but unfortunately I hate the Israeli state. 

"Made up country" is a very twisted and hostile thing to say. Because on the flip side, one can argue that palestinians are a made up people, that there never was such an ethnic group, kingdom or nation, and that in fact they are really ex-egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians. While that's technically true, I would never deny their existence or right to have a country. I also wouldn't deny Israel's right to exist and have a country. 

 

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I hate how media distorts the message. Today in Euronews the main piece was the attack to synagogues in Germany. Of course hate crimes are to be reported, but more than 30 children have died in Gaza. It's not precisely the anti-Semitism what should be making the main news!! 

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On 5/14/2021 at 10:20 AM, smirnoff_ice said:

Isn't Israel a totally made up country by the Western world in the Palestine land in the first place? And why have they been building houses in the Palestinian side in recent years? Nothing against the Israeli public but unfortunately I hate the Israeli state. 

 

I think that is the crux of the problem, and one that there is now no good solution to. 

Of course, Israel cannot just 'leave' the land that is already settled by their people. Citizens of Israel deserve safety and a 'home'. 

At the same time, if any country's lands were partitioned, and given to other people (eg. if someone gave 40% of United States lands to an ethnic/religious group to form a new country) - the original inhabitants would be outraged. 

It is a bad situation. 

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9 hours ago, air1975 said:

 

I think that is the crux of the problem, and one that there is now no good solution to. 

Of course, Israel cannot just 'leave' the land that is already settled by their people. Citizens of Israel deserve safety and a 'home'. 

At the same time, if any country's lands were partitioned, and given to other people (eg. if someone gave 40% of United States lands to an ethnic/religious group to form a new country) - the original inhabitants would be outraged. 

It is a bad situation. 

But weren't there alot of Jews in 1947 already living in what is Israel today? The movement of the Jews to return to the holy land and to reestablish Israel is at least a century and half old and there was a big resettlement of Jews in the Middle East happening already. And honestly, the Palestinians probably descend from the Hannan Jews anyways and those two nations are basically brothers... And at the time of the establishment of Israel the territory was ruled by UK and there was no Palestine or am I wrong?

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16 minutes ago, elijah said:

But weren't there alot of Jews in 1947 already living in what is Israel today? The movement of the Jews to return to the holy land and to reestablish Israel is at least a century and half old and there was a big resettlement of Jews in the Middle East happening already. And honestly, the Palestinians probably descend from the Hannan Jews anyways and those two nations are basically brothers... And at the time of the establishment of Israel the territory was ruled by UK and there was no Palestine or am I wrong?

It's all about religion. 

In most countries there's a mix of cultures. The problem comes from considering the country yours by God's appointment. 

It's as if Muslims came back to Spain after a war and took what was part of Muslim Spain 1300 years ago. And we had to flee and live in refugee camps. 

A country can't be created by force or simply based on cultural heritage, no matter who was there first and especially no matter how much pain the new folk occupying has suffered. 

And if you add that the land is sacred for three different religions... Then you will have a chronic problem that will never ever be solved unless one part leaves. Hence the efforts for decades to make all Palestinians leave the land. 

Horrifying.

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And by the way that's exactly what happened in Spain from the year 1000 to 1492: Christians who were cornered in the Pyrenees and the north coast wanted the land back, and they thought it belonged to them because they prayed to the true God. Even though Muslims had lived in Spain for 700 years. 

The result was a 400 hundred years process of wars and death and Inquisition. Jews expelled and Muslims converted and forced to live in ghettos. Until they disappeared into a new mixed country called Spain. 

Horrible. Especially considering that Muslims were incredibly advanced and  studied astronomy, philosophy and mathematics. And the Christians destroyed most knowledge. Jews were forced to leave the country. Now they are the Sefarad, a wonderful folk living in different Muslim countries who still speak ancient Spanish and still keep their beautiful culture.

That's human race. Sadly it keeps happening. 

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1 hour ago, Kim said:

Good old Sleepy Joe, eh? :sick:

 

Reminds me of the Obama era, when Muslim countries where destroyed while he was applauded because he loved his wife and was cool. 

Not very surprising, to be fair. 

There hasn't been a clear message of condemn for the killing of dozens of children in Europe either. Or at least I don't recall.

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3 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Reminds me of the Obama era, when Muslim countries where destroyed while he was applauded because he loved his wife and was cool. 

Not very surprising, to be fair. 

There hasn't been a clear message of condemn for the killing of dozens of children in Europe either. Or at least I don't recall.

Oh not too surprising, just slightly so at how brazen it is.

Who else are they (and the British) gonna sell the same weapons (that are doing the killing) to if they fall out with Israel over the pesky annoyance of dead civilians, blown up buildings and silenced journalists?

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1 minute ago, Kim said:

Oh not too surprising, just slightly so at how brazen it is.

Who else are they (and the British) gonna sell the same weapons (that are doing the killing) to if they fall out with Israel over the pesky annoyance of dead civilians, blown up buildings and silenced journalists?

We should take example from Italians. This and what you posted about Scottish people stopping deportations gives me so much hope! 

 

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