madonnasuperfan01 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'm def. with what a few of you said re: Aisha's comments. Much more than not she's been very complimentary and defended M on many occasions (as have the rest of the panel). She's clearly a fan and has been vocal about the 'respect' she has for her but mainly for her as an entertainer, iconic/legendary status and brilliant biz skills. Her tone during todays discussion wasn't dissing or hating- just being objective (in her mind/opinion) re: Ms vocals and the simplicity of her earlier songs. I def. don't think she finished her point (which was prob. gonna end praising what her career turned into and why etc..). Then, Sharon (of course) abruptly cut her off. Sharon more than all of them combined is the biggest bi-polar flop flopper when it comes to anything Madonna. I think the only reason she was more toned down for a while w/ the hating was 'cause her daughter got that major gig for the Material Girl clothing line (aka M was her daughters *employer*...so duh)! lol. So basically, she sees Madonna as a good businesswoman with no real talent, like all the others. I'm so happy Madonna got "fans" like that (sarcasm). Madonna's voice is ALWAYS discredited and i'm so sick of that. She proved a lot of times that she can sing. Yet people still want to dismiss it (even her own fans). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacho Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madgemusic85 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Disposable, really? Holiday, Like A Virgin, Material Girl, Into The Groove, Vogue, Like A Prayer, La Isla Bonita, Papa Don't Preach. Those songs are pop classics. Obviously jealousy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VogueMusic Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 You don't last 30+ years and become the most successful female artist in the history of contemporary music by just being a good business person...let alone, "not being able to sing." No. It's just basic logic. It just doesn't work that way, no matter what propaganda the industry/media/public continue to sell, and believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jan Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 You don't last 30+ years and become the most successful female artist in the history of contemporary music by just being a good business person...let alone, not being able to sing. No. It's just basic logic. It just doesn't work that way, no matter what propaganda the industry/media/public continue to sell, and believe. Yes, something that always amazes me. I doubt that any passionate Madonna fan likes her because she is a good business woman. We are all here for the music first and foremost and that is what it has always been about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijah Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Having in mind how the media has been hating on Madonna since at least 2002 and yet she has had great success with COADF and even with subpar singles (4 Minutes, GMAYL) she had one of the biggest records at 2008/2012, I am still at a loss how she is this media genius... I say that lately IN SPITE OF THE PRESS she has been successful... If she had the media confort of Gaga even in her slump, she d be even more successsful. As for the talents: its all subjective, not a fact: Gaga might have a strong voice, but it is etremely irritating and unpleasant for my ears and her songwriting is shit. While I believe Madonna is etremely vertisile, she can simply sing anything and sound good with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Madonna's music has always been great. Classic song after classic song. Even before it was known Madonna would stand the test of time everyone knew the songs were great. How many songs from Rihanna, Katy Perry, Britney, Gaga, Justin Timberlake and Beyoncé can we say are classics? Let alone Bieber and Miley Cyrus who let's face it, are undeniably crap. The notion that "we don't know if Miley will stand the test of time" is stupid. We know she won't. She's shit. The reasons people wrote Madonna off in her early years are very different to the reasons they write Miley and co off. I'm sorry but even drawing comparisons is just dumb. She's not in the same league or even close. There's no comparison. She's just copying the Madonna template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 As for vocals who really cares how Madonna rates as a vocalist. The need in our society to rate everything and pit people against eachother on talent show contest etc etc really takes the artistry out of music. Madonna is not just a singer, she's not just a performer, she's not just a business woman, first and foremost she's an ARTIST. Something these other nothings are not. What she does starts at that and how she rates as a singer etc is irrelevant. It always has been and she's always said it herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmmmm Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Lionel Ritchie loves her, a lot of music artists love her too. She is well respected within the music community. These are just washed up has beens that reek of pure jealousy, let's not care for these bitter ass people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Did he say something true? Absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vocalism Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 "Where is the Michael Jackson?" BARF. Dear god, yes he was talented and made some great music, but I'm sorry, he is so fucking overrated. There are so many artists who are/were as good or better, both male and FEMALE, who don't get the respect he gets. I really do believe that if Madonna had ended her career after ROL, or continued making music in that vein and kept her clothes on and wasn't as provocative, she would be much more respected, and I think that includes, oddly, her singing voice. I am NOT saying that I would have wanted her to do that, or that she should have done that, but I believe that it's a sad fact that her image has contributed to the level of respect she gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Coffin Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 What? That made me hate MJ even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonoka Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 They mention MJ because he's basically the most appreciated pop artist out there. Nothing wrong with that IMO, he finally gets the praise he deserves. What happened though that made people truly recognize his talent? He died, and under very tragic circumstances while at that. And that's the faith M would need to suffer too to get the recognition she deserves. Yes, this is incredibly morbid, but I believe it's true. Let's say she won't be here with us the next day anymore, I'd bet you'd be hearing every single media outlet suddenly praising her for everything and anything she ever did. And only then people will appreciate her true genius. It was exactly the same with MJ and it was the same with many other artists as well. It is sad, but that's how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vocalism Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 They've been recognizing his talent and praising him for decades. Even before his death. If he were still alive, I'm certain his name still would have come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rachelle of London Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 He's the biggest selling solo artist after Elvis and above Madonna of course his name would pop up. Personal opinions aside Madonna, MJ, The Beatles, Elvis etc will always be compared due to their amazing record sales. Its as simple as that. Meanwhile Sharon and co wish they had an ounce of their relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Rent-a-gob daytime TV trash paid to have 'controversial' differing opinions. Is it really worth even discussing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genevieve Vavance Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 What? That made me hate MJ even more. me too, and omg I hate Sharon O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonoka Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 They've been recognizing his talent and praising him for decades. Even before his death. If he were still alive, I'm certain his name still would have come up. I don't think so. Back in the 80's and 90's, sure, but if we're talking recent years, I don't think there ever was an artist who got so much shit from the media (along with the public eating it ALL up) like he did, M aside of course. But regardless of whether this was the case or not, his death did put his public image on an extreme upswing, which is something that's undeniable. M too does get appreciation nowadays, but I'm more than confident it'd be so much more if she suffered that unfortunate faith her peer did. I do wish M would at least be left alone from the media if they already can't appreciate her achievements, but I've learn to accept that it just won't happen. But having said that, M has demonstrated more than once that she doesn't give a fuck about people bashing her, so in this regard, I do agree with Kim...why do we even discuss what those nothings said about M? We know better than them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madonnasuperfan01 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 "Where is the Michael Jackson?" BARF. Dear god, yes he was talented and made some great music, but I'm sorry, he is so fucking overrated. There are so many artists who are/were as good or better, both male and FEMALE, who don't get the respect he gets. I really do believe that if Madonna had ended her career after ROL, or continued making music in that vein and kept her clothes on and wasn't as provocative, she would be much more respected, and I think that includes, oddly, her singing voice. I am NOT saying that I would have wanted her to do that, or that she should have done that, but I believe that it's a sad fact that her image has contributed to the level of respect she gets. I'm SO glad i'm not the only one thinking that. He's always been the very definition of overrated, he's nowhere near close to being the best artist that ever lived. Prince alone is WAY more talented than him. People are talking like that about MJ because he got the best selling album of all time. But that's not a proof of quality. There's an awful lot of albums out there better than Thriller. And even when everyone was sure he was a pedophile, they still talked about how talented he was and how much his music and performances were better than everyone else's. Madonna NEVER got this kind of acclaim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frzndrwnwrld Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I never understood people's obsession with Michael Jackson. He had Thriller....... that's it! You can not compare that to Madonna's extensive catalog of music and hits. It boggles my mind that she isn't respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonoka Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 You know what, how about we leave the MJ talk out of the discussion? There's already been too many threads here going down the drain because they ended up in pointless debates about him. The thing is, everyone has opinions on artists, but that's what they are - opinions. There are no facts when it comes to liking or disliking an artist, whether an artist is overrated or underrated. It's all based on personal perception. Some might find Thriller or MJ in general overrated, fine, some think the absolute opposite though. I could write a thousand points why I consider the immense praise for him absolutely adequate, for example. Really, we're just running in circles here. This MJ discussion is pointless and it's going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I can't even These women are so dumb and uneducated. Look at how they speak, how they present themselves. Beyond coarse. There's nothing to comment about them "reflecting" on Lionel's intelligent and appropriate remarks. And that woman saying songs like Borderline etc are "simple" Certainly "simple" when you compare them to an Erotica or ROL or COADF track. But Madonna's songs from her first period are all incredibly well-crafted songs that have stood the test of time unlike most of the disposable trash that clogs the charts nowadays. Borderline is an outstanding pop classic, she has no fucking arguments. And regarding her voice, I never hear anyone saying how Dave Gahan has a much better voice than Bono, wonder why And besides, God, that "Madonna can't sing argument" is just desperate and tired at this point. She has proven she can sing countless times and it's one of few succesful recording acts in pop that actually does bother to sing live. Unless she's being a contortionist or doing a GGW number. It's not like she's been putting her records on and going out in front of 70,000 people simply mouthing the words for 30 odd years (which many other pop acts are accustomed to) I wish those silly hens would stop for 2 seconds to think before opening their ugly holes. And wow the women of this show makes the Ladies of The View seem intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerGirl Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I am going ignore the comments about Madonna's voice and go straight to the one about her music. Yes, her first two albums were mainly bubbelgum pop, but by the third album she had already taken a turn towards a more mature sound. Justin released his first album in 2010 and has yet to do anything of substance. He just keeps acting like an asshole. AND he's already flopping. Miley has released four albums (if you don't count Hannah Montana), and I guess she is more concerned about her career than Justin so it's hard to predict where it will go, but she hasn't delivered something classic yet. W H Y do they keep acting like Madonna is anything like them? We already knew by her third album that she was developing her sound, songwriting, image etc. into something more substantial and mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VogueMusic Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I can't even believe Madonna's name is even being mentioned next to these current pop tarts like Miley and Justin, etc... You see folks putting Steven Tyler or Mick Jagger or Bowie in the same sentences as One Direction? As said above, where are these types of conversations comparing all the male "vocalists"...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I can't even watch the tape because I can't. From what I read they sre talking about Madonna's early hits like Borderline which are classics? I find it so annoying that when someone pays Madonna a compliment there seems to be an effort to knock it down. This is from women too. If you cannot tell the difference in quality of today's songs and Madonna's early hits then you shouldn't be talking about music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I find it so annoying that when someone pays Madonna a compliment there seems to be an effort to knock it down. This is from women too. If you cannot tell the difference in quality of today's songs and Madonna's early hits then you shouldn't be talking about music This It's so fucking annoying indeed. And how can you contradict the obvious? People remember Borderline today more than they will I Kissed A Girl 30 years down the line. If they can't have a conversation about music which doesn't feel like an insult to common sense and intelligence, imagine them talking about politics. I really can't. A bunch if hens really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I can't even believe Madonna's name is even being mentioned next to these current pop tarts like Miley and Justin, etc... You see folks putting Steven Tyler or Mick Jagger or Bowie in the same sentences as One Direction? As said above, where are these types of conversations comparing all the male "vocalists"...? Yeah well I always wonder that myself. I also find it annoying that in defending Madonna I need to critique some male artists I admire and examine and compare them which I don't want to do because I like or dislike an artist based on my feelings and do not want to judge their work based on someone else's criteria. It's more frustrating that they single her out in their limitations to appreciate art snd music (or their limitations in appreciating women) than what they actually say. I love Madonna's voice and it does stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I can't even believe Madonna's name is even being mentioned next to these current pop tarts like Miley and Justin, etc... You see folks putting Steven Tyler or Mick Jagger or Bowie in the same sentences as One Direction? Just for the record One Direction have repeatedly been compared to The Beatles in terms of popularity and "fan hysteria." Bottom line is the media just loves to compare things and claim everything is the "new this" and the "new that." It's part of process of hyping these nothing's up. The fact is, it isn't. Anyone with any ounce of intelligence can see that. Elvis, The Beatles, Michael Jackson and Madonna are all one of a kind and that's why they're untouchable. People that claim otherwise are just dumb really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madonnasuperfan01 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I can't even believe Madonna's name is even being mentioned next to these current pop tarts like Miley and Justin, etc... You see folks putting Steven Tyler or Mick Jagger or Bowie in the same sentences as One Direction? As said above, where are these types of conversations comparing all the male "vocalists"...? EXACTLY. It's extremely annoying. All those male artists are extremely respected and nobody ever question their music and talent yet Madonna is still constantly called talentless and is compared to some current generic pop tart I mean, have you guys seen how quick Gaga has being called "the new and better Madonna"? She was nothing but a generic electro-pop girl with Halloween costumes yet people were ready to completely write off Madonna because of her. Really show how little respect she's getting if people think she's that disposable. That's why i always thought Madonna is underrated, she should have WAY more respect. She changed the music scene, did a LOT of amazing timeless music and proved her talent. There's no logical reason to hate her like that, mostly when you have a lot of mainstream artists who are clearly less talented than her yet got more acclamation for some weird reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I think Madonna gets a lot of respect from people though as well. It's just these haters that scream the loudest. And strangely enough alot of the time they are female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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