XXL Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 How old are you babe? I ask because you can't imagine just how many times critics said from 1985 to 1990 that Madonna had to try too hard to be sensual and sexy, while Marylin only had to blink. She was seen as some slut on stage, because no other popstar has ever behave like that. I am 30 I "laughed" because you're comparing pop stars' controversies of today to the controversy generated by LAP, JML, Erotica etc and within an 80s to mid 90s cultural and social context. Nothing that is done today has the same impact. By the time the late 90s rolled around even Marylin Manson's work wasn't getting that many people to be upset There is nothing controversial about pop stars of today. You might be a few years older than me so you should remember even better about that period. And in Europe people, I mean people aged 20-40 were very tintillated about the whole SEX thing, of course she got bashed for it here too but in the US she came up a wall of media venom like no other huge mainstream artist ever before and she deliberately, very bravely put herself in such a scenario, she didn't care about not being liked and by 1992 after LAP, Vogue, BAT, The Immaculate Collection, These Used To be my Playground etc she was the top living celebrity in the world together with Michael Rihanna or any other pop act of today lol, wearing latex or S&M imagery is not considered controversial anymore especially when it's just a form of mimicking/flashing but there isn't any theme or developed concept behind it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp_QlX1Tb1k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 She’s a bad enemy to have. I don’t want her to know anything about me, because she’ll steal what she can. What I have is mine and she can’t f**kin’ have it. She’s not going to be able to write lyrics like me, and even if she does get up onstage with a guitar, it’s not going to last. I don’t care how vain and arrogant this sounds, but just watch: In her next video, Madonna’s going to have roots. She’s going to have smeared eyeliner. And that’s me. ~ Courtney Love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 The history of women in popular music can, pretty much, be divided into before and after Madonna - Susan Sarandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt420 Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I truly didn't know Rihanna was considered to be that controversial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I truly didn't know Rihanna was considered to be that controversial I know Back then Madonna was so direct and bold that she was shocking to many people. I'm sure that Marlene could be shocked at her behaviour. Now it seems "normal", but to simmulate masturbation on stage back then was like a lightning bolt! And sensuality and erotism was more related to Brigitte Bardot or Marylin than Madonna. Back then Madonna seemed like Rihanna now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacket Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 "No one does grilled cheese like Madonna!" - tshirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I know Well, that was my opinion. If you think that Madonna was highly respected as an artist during the 80s, that's yours. That was many years ago and people that didn't live that era don't know just how easy it was to tell Madonna off and label her as "a publicity stunt that uses controversy to sell records". Meanwhile, if people want to ignore the fact that Rihanna has been critisize for slutting up the pop stardom, than it's up to you too. Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Absolutely embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jan Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Mia Wasikowska's comment about Madonna listed below. Madonna. She’s the icon. She’s wholly her own person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madonnasuperfan01 Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Well, that was my opinion. If you think that Madonna was highly respected as an artist during the 80s, that's yours. That was many years ago and people that didn't live that era don't know just how easy it was to tell Madonna off and label her as "a publicity stunt that uses controversy to sell records". Meanwhile, if people want to ignore the fact that Rihanna has been critisize for slutting up the pop stardom, than it's up to you too. Bye PLEASE, Rihanna gets a free pass for almost everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 PLEASE, Rihanna gets a free pass for almost everything I love how Karbatal thinks Rihanna is slutting it up just like Madonna did in the early 90s. I am afraid he knows too well though what Madonna's Erotica truly represented in 1992. The point is that other than the Latex suits and "provocative" attire there is nothing provocative in Rihanna as a person. It isn't an opinion that Madonna was respected as an artist both in the 80s and the 90s. Respected as someone who writes and produces her own work to begin with, respected in terms of pioneering performance spectaculars, She was the first female act ever to fill stadiums consecutively, so that's respect right there Academics don't write anything about pop stars of today, they're just a product to sell other products. Madonna had people in the media and in academia furious at her subverting the traditional role of women in society. Can you imagine Camille Paglia commenting on Rihanna and how innovative is her S&M mask? Maybe it's best to stick to complimenting and commenting on the incredible thought provoking piece of totally non crass/cheesy and pandering like no other of a soap star (literally as consistent as soap) in a bra, her face swollen with botox at 32, gently whispering on the sand, surrounded by towels and a bunch of tanned, hairless, semi-muscled, effeminate men in colorful spandex (worst gay stereotype EVER). I mean talk about cultural relevance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Richard of Richard & Judy asking Nicolas Calloway: "Most people start taking their clothes off and then they buy some fame for themselves ..... but Madonna is actually doing the contrary... her career is very much established now, why is she doing this SEX book?" And therein lies everything that needs to be said about what was controversial 20 years ago and what is marketed as being controversial today (Controversy LITE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 When was this? Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I love how Karbatal thinks Rihanna is slutting it up just like Madonna did in the early 90s. I am afraid he knows too well though what Madonna's Erotica truly represented in 1992. The point is that other than the Latex suits and "provocative" attire there is nothing provocative in Rihanna as a person. It isn't an opinion that Madonna was respected as an artist both in the 80s and the 90s. Respected as someone who writes and produces her own work to begin with, respected in terms of pioneering performance spectaculars, She was the first female act ever to fill stadiums consecutively, so that's respect right there Academics don't write anything about pop stars of today, they're just a product to sell other products. Madonna had people in the media and in academia furious at her subverting the traditional role of women in society. Can you imagine Camille Paglia commenting on Rihanna and how innovative is her S&M mask? Maybe it's best to stick to complimenting and commenting on the incredible thought provoking piece of totally non crass/cheesy and pandering like no other of a soap star (literally as consistent as soap) in a bra, her face swollen with botox at 32, gently whispering on the sand, surrounded by towels and a bunch of tanned, hairless, semi-muscled, effeminate men in colorful spandex (worst gay stereotype EVER). I mean talk about cultural relevance I like disagreeing with you. And that was a nice answer. I like you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 What is the hair incident in BAT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VogueMusic Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 She’s a bad enemy to have. I don’t want her to know anything about me, because she’ll steal what she can. What I have is mine and she can’t f**kin’ have it. She’s not going to be able to write lyrics like me, and even if she does get up onstage with a guitar, it’s not going to last. I don’t care how vain and arrogant this sounds, but just watch: In her next video, Madonna’s going to have roots. She’s going to have smeared eyeliner. And that’s me. ~ Courtney Love When did she say this? I love how Karbatal thinks Rihanna is slutting it up just like Madonna did in the early 90s. I am afraid he knows too well though what Madonna's Erotica truly represented in 1992. The point is that other than the Latex suits and "provocative" attire there is nothing provocative in Rihanna as a person. It isn't an opinion that Madonna was respected as an artist both in the 80s and the 90s. Respected as someone who writes and produces her own work to begin with, respected in terms of pioneering performance spectaculars, She was the first female act ever to fill stadiums consecutively, so that's respect right there Academics don't write anything about pop stars of today, they're just a product to sell other products. Madonna had people in the media and in academia furious at her subverting the traditional role of women in society. Can you imagine Camille Paglia commenting on Rihanna and how innovative is her S&M mask? Maybe it's best to stick to complimenting and commenting on the incredible thought provoking piece of totally non crass/cheesy and pandering like no other of a soap star (literally as consistent as soap) in a bra, her face swollen with botox at 32, gently whispering on the sand, surrounded by towels and a bunch of tanned, hairless, semi-muscled, effeminate men in colorful spandex (worst gay stereotype EVER). I mean talk about cultural relevance :clap: :clap: Madonna's criticism, in the context of the 80s and 90s (and even now), was completely different, and on a whole other level, than what the pop tarts of today go through, esp. Rihanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt420 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Well, that was my opinion. If you think that Madonna was highly respected as an artist during the 80s, that's yours. That was many years ago and people that didn't live that era don't know just how easy it was to tell Madonna off and label her as "a publicity stunt that uses controversy to sell records". Meanwhile, if people want to ignore the fact that Rihanna has been critisize for slutting up the pop stardom, than it's up to you too. Bye Madonna definitely got written off a lot in the 80's, but at the same time it was undeniable that she was THE female pop star to keep up with, not just in charts/sales but as far as having her finger on the pulse of pop culture. She did garner some true respect for her artistry though in 1989 with LAP. Rihanna has definitely had a consistent string of hits, but I don't think she has at any point been THE female artist to keep up with as Madonna was in the 80's. Madonna was a HUGE talking point amongst the general public, critics, tabloids and scholars, Rihanna isn't quite the talking point that Madonna was at her peak. Madonna's controversies would make headline news (and not just on the entertainment networks), they were unavoidable. I'm not saying Rihanna hasn't gotten criticized for dressing sexy, but it's no more criticism than Britney got in her hey day, Miley gets now. The only major story of Rihanna's career that even comes close to matching the level of publicity Madonna used to get back in the day is when Chris Brown beat her. That's the most I've heard the general public and media talk about Rihanna. Come on karby! You actually REMEMBER those days. You don't actually think Rihanna gets the same amount of flack Madonna did at her peak of provocation!?? Madonna was breaking social taboos and Rihanna is now able to play dress up in sexy clothes with fairly mild criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Matter Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but doesn't this comment rather imply Marlene did not like Madonna?You're right, judging by that quote Marlene obviously didn't like Madonna.Helen Mirren liking Madonna's sex book hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Matter Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Richard of Richard & Judy asking Nicolas Calloway: "Most people start taking their clothes off and then they buy some fame for themselves ..... but Madonna is actually doing the contrary... her career is very much established now, why is she doing this SEX book?" And therein lies everything that needs to be said about what was controversial 20 years ago and what is marketed as being controversial today (Controversy LITE) OMG I enjoyed this interview so much I wish I was a fan back then but I was 8 or so lolI can't believe that guy said YES, I would let my 11 y.o. daughter see the SEX book :-) loooool sweet but dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Where is the Glenn Close quote? I need it to start my Erotica Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Not4Pussies Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 What did Bowie say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunkbysix Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 What did Bowie say? It would be my guess that Madonna is not a very happy woman. From my own experience, having gone through persona changes like that, that kind of clawing need to be the center of attention is not a pleasant place to be. ~ David Bowie, 1992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 There's nothing negative in that quote though and he's socialised with her several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 just wait til Courtney's bio hits the shelves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Just wait til Courtney's bio hits the shelves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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