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BREXIT / British Politics thread - cont

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On 1/27/2019 at 1:20 PM, Raider of the lost Ark said:

Fasten your seatbelt, it's gonna be a bumpy ride. 

But we should stay civilized. Therefore Europe would like to thank you for all the banks, insurances and companies that move their headquarters to Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt because they are no longer able to do business with the EU from the City of London. We would like to thank you for the heavily needed workforce in healthcare and care for the elders by kicking all those Wonderful Polish and Baltic workers out. We would like to thank you for strenghtening European universities and research institutes by sending top people, because staff has no longer access to European research funds at British research hubs. And the list goes on. So much to be thankful for. Be proud of yourselves, you did it all on your own. Of couse, when the shit hits the fan, there will be mass amnesia and all of the UK will claim it's all the evil EUs fault. But that's fine. We are used to this fairytale. 

By the way, Scotland and Northern Ireland are very welcome in the EU, if they want to join. Wales? Well, I guess they really need to come crawling. They were especially ungrateful considering the EU probably did more for Wales than the British government ever has. 

Omg! Yesss to all of this!!!

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So a majority in Parliament have voted for May to go back to Brussels and have the backstop replaced by “alternative arrangements”. Even though the EU have categorically stated that renegotiation is impossible and that the backstop is an essential part of the Withdrawal Agreement.

It is of course a fudge, a face saver for Mrs May and her government. It just won't work, and we'll back again for further excruciating debates on the 'deal.'

Rejection by the EU of an alternative to the backstop will end with parliament coming to the conclusion that Art 50 needs to be extended by up to a year. 9 months is too short a time given the likelihood of a general election and a further referendum.

In all of this, I'd prefer to listen to Dominic Grieve, QC. He's been a very dependable commentator throughout this entire and deeply flawed process.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47052227

Allow me to sum up where we are at the moment

David Cameron made a promise he didn’t think he’d have to keep to have a referendum he didn’t think he would lose. Boris Johnson decided to back the side he didn’t believe in because he didn’t think it would win. Then Gove, who said he wouldn’t run, did, and Boris who said he would run, said he wouldn’t, and Theresa May who didn’t vote for Brexit got the job of making it happen.

She called the election she said she wouldn’t and lost the majority David Cameron hadn’t expected to win in the first place. She triggered Article 50 when we didn’t need to and said we would talk about trade at the same time as the divorce deal and the EU said they wouldn’t so we didn’t.

People thought she wouldn’t get the divorce settled but she did, but only by agreeing to separate arrangements for Northern Ireland when she had promised the DUP she wouldn’t. Then the Cabinet agreed a deal but they hadn’t, and David Davis who was Brexit Secretary but wasn’t said it wasn’t what people had voted for and he couldn’t support what he had just supported and left.

Boris Johnson who hadn’t left then wished that he had and did, but it was a bit late for that. Dominic Raab become the new Brexit secretary. People thought Theresa May wouldn’t get a withdrawal agreement negotiated, but once she had they wished that she hadn’t, because hardly anybody liked it whether they wanted to leave or not.

Jacob Rees-Mogg kept threatening a vote of no confidence in her but not enough people were confident enough people would not have confidence in her to confidently call a no confidence vote. Dominic Raab said he hadn’t really been Brexit Secretary either and resigned, and somebody else took the job but it probably isn’t worth remembering who they are as they’re not really doing the job either as Olly Robbins is.

Then Theresa May said she would call a vote and didn’t, that she wouldn’t release some legal advice but had to, that she would get some concessions but didn’t, and got cross that Juncker was calling her nebulous when he wasn’t but probably should have been.

At some point Jacob Rees Mogg and others called a vote of no-confidence in her, which she won by promising to leave, so she can stay. But they said she had really lost it and should go, at the same time as saying that people who voted Leave knew what they were voting for which they couldn’t possibly have because we still don’t know now, and that we should leave the vote to Leave vote alone but have no confidence in the no-confidence vote which won by more.

The government also argued in court against us being able to say we didn’t want to leave after all but it turned out we could. May named a date for the vote on her agreement which nobody expected to pass, while pretending that no deal which nobody wants is still possible (even though we know we can just say we are not leaving), and that we can’t have a second referendum because having a democratic vote is undemocratic. And of course as expected she loses. Some people are talking about a managed no-deal which is not a deal but is not no-deal either.

Thank goodness for strong and stable government.

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They want May to get a deal were there's no border on Northern Ireland, there's a common market for free and there's not a single EU law that affects the UK. 

Why on Earth they feel they have the right to get all that is a mystery 😂😂😂 They can send May back as many times as they want but it would be nice if any of them read a book and learn anything about the EU. 

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And there are still some British politicians who claim Germany and France will cave in the very last minute "because those countries need the UK". Obviously they still have not understood how it works, that every EU member needs to agree to such deal. It really shows how unprepared the UK really is in case of a hard Brexit. It's frightening. 

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I wonder how many British politicians actually think that this vote changed anything, and how many are just going along with the obviously incorrect "this is meaningful“ narrative because they have no idea what else to do. 

It’s similar to the "Dealing with the UK is such a privilege, the EU will come round and realize that and fulfill our demands any day now, seriously!“ thinking from the likes of Boris Johnson. Does he actually think so or does he just say that because he knows it’s popular with Daily Mail readers? I suppose it doesn’t matter in the end, but still, I’m curious.

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18 hours ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

And there are still some British politicians who claim Germany and France will cave in the very last minute "because those countries need the UK". Obviously they still have not understood how it works, that every EU member needs to agree to such deal. It really shows how unprepared the UK really is in case of a hard Brexit. It's frightening. 

I read somewhere that Germany will be the most affected country. We all will lose a lot, tbqh, because Spain exports so many agricultural items, for example. This is not benefiting anybody. 

What we shouldn't expect anytime soon is a Nethernexit. The country is LOADED with all this Brexit thinngs. Most firms and such are moving from UK to the Netherlands to keep working in the common market! Even EU agencies. 

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On 1/26/2019 at 9:34 PM, windsor67 said:

Stop it with the exaggeration about brexit 

🇬🇧 will be better off in the long run and the disruptions will be minimal

i love Europe and its utopia but the U.K. does not belong, and the U.K. certainly does not need any lessons about democracy and human rights from Brussels. The U.K. is the mother of modern democracy and was always there when all these countries were having their nationalist quarrels. 

No country in the world is more multicultural than the U.K. 

europe is rife with far right parties. Extremism never made a mark in the U.K. unlike mainland europe

brexit is about independence, being able to do your own trade deal, it is about opening oneself to the world

meanwhile all the European countries have a far right party that gets a lot of votes, even Spain where the PP incorporated francoists 

not everything is black and white

and I despise the antisemitism from so many people who are left wing

 

Right at this very moment parliamentary sovereignty is being undermined by an extreme right wing faction of the Tory party, our EU friends and neighbours are leaving in droves, the disabled and poor are being marginalised and punished like never before bY the most right wing govt in living memory, a Home Office that is actively RACIST.... The UK is literally a laughing stock across the world... and here's yer typical little-englander Brexit voting xenophobic twit who doesn't have a clue what's going on in his own country.

I really do despair. Get us normal people away from here, PLEASE!

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7 hours ago, karbatal said:

I read somewhere that Germany will be the most affected country. We all will lose a lot, tbqh, because Spain exports so many agricultural items, for example. This is not benefiting anybody. 

What we shouldn't expect anytime soon is a Nethernexit. The country is LOADED with all this Brexit thinngs. Most firms and such are moving from UK to the Netherlands to keep working in the common market! Even EU agencies. 

We will have to wait and see what happens. But that does not mean Germany is not prepared. I'm pretty sure, preparations started immediately after the Brexit vote. You know, if Germany wants one thing above everything  else, it's stability. Of course, Germany will no longer export so much to the UK but I don't think it will be a desaster of epic proportions. Afterall there are certain industrial things where Germany is the sole producer or the producer of the premium product. If people want it, they will pay for it, even if it's more expensive. That's why I always found Trumps threats about higher taxes for German cars laugable. As if someone in the US who can afford an expensive Audi, Mercedes, BMW or Porsche cares about a few thousand dollars more. 

I also think that Spain should not really worry about their agriculture or tourism. The UK will still buy fruits and vegetables from Spain. Where else are they supposed to get these things? From the US? That will be just as expensive. And keep in mind they don't have trade deals immediately after the Brexit. UK citizens will still travel to Spain. A 2 Hours flight to get in the sun. What's the alternative? UK citizens will end up paying more when the pound crashes but will they stop travelling or buying Spanish fruit and vegetable. I don't think so. 

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3 hours ago, Kim said:

Right at this very moment parliamentary sovereignty is being undermined by an extreme right wing faction of the Tory party, our EU friends and neighbours are leaving in droves, the disabled and poor are being marginalised and punished like never before bY the most right wing govt in living memory, a Home Office that is actively RACIST.... The UK is literally a laughing stock across the world... and here's yer typical little-englander Brexit voting xenophobic twit who doesn't have a clue what's going on in his own country.

I really do despair. Get us normal people away from here, PLEASE!

Extreme right wing? Eu citizens leaving in droves lol what world are you leaving in. Far right politics and fascism are European, they are sprouting all over that continent, there is no such thing in the U.K.. and no European citizen is asked to leave the U.K., all eu citizens are guaranteed right to stay once the U.K. frees itself and they will be welcome after we leave. The U.K. is number one in soft power, the 5th richest nation, the least racist and most multicultural.country on the continent.The Eu is just about principles of free movement and low growth that serves the French and German economies. Both the Eu and the U.K. will hurt in the case of a no deal but the one who gets to lose the most is the Eu. Stop reading the Guardian . Brexit is an opening  to the world

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1 hour ago, windsor67 said:

Extreme right wing? Eu citizens leaving in droves lol what world are you leaving in. Far right politics and fascism are European, they are sprouting all over that continent, there is no such thing in the U.K.. and no European citizen is asked to leave the U.K., all eu citizens are guaranteed right to stay once the U.K. frees itself and they will be welcome after we leave. The U.K. is number one in soft power, the 5th richest nation, the least racist and most multicultural.country on the continent.The Eu is just about principles of free movement and low growth that serves the French and German economies. Both the Eu and the U.K. will hurt in the case of a no deal but the one who gets to lose the most is the Eu. Stop reading the Guardian . Brexit is an opening  to the world

You're either a troll, mentally ill, or a sicko Tory bastard. Either way, you can go fuck yourself.

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4 hours ago, windsor67 said:

Brexit is an opening  to the world

Well, that‘s a first. Can you explain how leaving a 28 state organization (and structuring xenophobic arguments around it) is opening itself up to the world? :wacko: 

Britain is suddenly going to strike groundbreaking partnerships and befriend new nations now that they laid off their chains, or what? Are they going to conquer India again?

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5 hours ago, windsor67 said:

Extreme right wing? Eu citizens leaving in droves lol what world are you leaving in. Far right politics and fascism are European, they are sprouting all over that continent, there is no such thing in the U.K.. and no European citizen is asked to leave the U.K., all eu citizens are guaranteed right to stay once the U.K. frees itself and they will be welcome after we leave. The U.K. is number one in soft power, the 5th richest nation, the least racist and most multicultural.country on the continent.The Eu is just about principles of free movement and low growth that serves the French and German economies. Both the Eu and the U.K. will hurt in the case of a no deal but the one who gets to lose the most is the Eu. Stop reading the Guardian . Brexit is an opening  to the world

You sound like Anne Coulter when she said that the wall wasn't racist or anything, it was a protection for the middle class and poor American wages. Its fascinating (and frightening) how increasingly  the alt right tries to present a ridiculous (often racist/homophobic) idea as having a humanistic reasons. 

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12 hours ago, Kim said:

Right at this very moment parliamentary sovereignty is being undermined by an extreme right wing faction of the Tory party, our EU friends and neighbours are leaving in droves, the disabled and poor are being marginalised and punished like never before bY the most right wing govt in living memory, a Home Office that is actively RACIST.... The UK is literally a laughing stock across the world... and here's yer typical little-englander Brexit voting xenophobic twit who doesn't have a clue what's going on in his own country.

I really do despair. Get us normal people away from here, PLEASE!

It is obvious that the Tory Party is extreme right wing. Anybody even slightly left of centre that I read about from the UK drums that home repeatedly.   The fact the opposition in England is so moderate gives them no opposition either.  You are right too about the rest of the world laughing.  I only have to watch our news here and also political correspondents from the UK who all groan about Brexit and talk of the absolute mess it is. 

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26 minutes ago, Jazzy Jan said:

It is obvious that the Tory Party is extreme right wing. Anybody even slightly left of centre that I read about from the UK drums that home repeatedly.   The fact the opposition in England is so moderate gives them no opposition either.  You are right too about the rest of the world laughing.  I only have to watch our news here and also political correspondents from the UK who all groan about Brexit and talk of the absolute mess it is

here it´s the same, that´s why it´s interesting to read opinions that believe brexit "it´s an open world".I may be very simple, but, where are they going to sell their production? where are they going to buy something that they don´t produce as cheap as when they were in  the EU, without borders? and what will happen with scotland?

the only positive thing that this brexit can have, for us remaining inside, is that people will feel more united now that one country clearly despises it (us? I really don´t know if the brexiters hate more EU´s laws or the european emigrants).

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She is hilarious - Miriam Margolyes on Brexit - go to 3.19

 

 

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4 hours ago, elijah said:

You sound like Anne Coulter when she said that the wall wasn't racist or anything, it was a protection for the middle class and poor American wages. Its fascinating (and frightening) how increasingly  the alt right tries to present a ridiculous (often racist/homophobic) idea as having a humanistic reasons. 

Exactly. 

And to say that all EU citizens are welcome after Brexit.... As Kim says, he's either a troll or mentally ill.

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1 hour ago, promise to try said:

here it´s the same, that´s why it´s interesting to read opinions that believe brexit "it´s an open world".I may be very simple, but, where are they going to sell their production? where are they going to buy something that they don´t produce as cheap as when they were in  the EU, without borders? and what will happen with scotland?

the only positive thing that this brexit can have, for us remaining inside, is that people will feel more united now that one country clearly despises it (us? I really don´t know if the brexiters hate more EU´s laws or the european emigrants).

They will depend on the World Treat Organisation, which is pure shit and has far less guarantees for consumers and firms, but hey, they will be free from the EU! Bourocrats won't tell them how to make their sausages! 

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The tory party and DUP want an iron-hard Brexit, to give the Queen all her old powers back, and to go to war.

Capture the Norwegian oil derricks and pillage their fishing fleet, invade the north of France, make an alliance with Russia against German aggression, and make the Low Countries pay tribute to us because we're British.

Bring the good old days back of the Empire. Woooooooooahhhh

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8 hours ago, BrendanT1993 said:

The tory party and DUP want an iron-hard Brexit, to give the Queen all her old powers back, and to go to war.

Capture the Norwegian oil derricks and pillage their fishing fleet, invade the north of France, make an alliance with Russia against German aggression, and make the Low Countries pay tribute to us because we're British.

Bring the good old days back of the Empire. Woooooooooahhhh

Except this is 2019. A country (england) in chaos because of 2 inches of snow last night, it's main airport brought to a standstill over christmas because of a drone, its inhabitants calling the police en masse because KFC ran out of chicken last year (yes, really). A joke.

 

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Some things are better explained with an image :rotfl:

Снимка на Marc Hasan Bieri.

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31 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Some things are better explained with an image :rotfl:

Treeza's on her way on a WWII warplane to sort you foreigners out!! - according to the BBC's "accidental" addition to their main news report the other night....

 

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55 minutes ago, Suedey said:

Weather guy's cute tho

I take it you already have SETTLED STATUS dear?  :geek:

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French TV should include accidentally images of Charles de Gaulle in 1967 refusing to include UK in the EU :chuckle:

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Pretty much sums it up. What a shower of useless fucking cunts.

 

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23 hours ago, Kim said:

I take it you already have SETTLED STATUS dear?  :geek:

British born hun :wow:

 

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11 hours ago, karbatal said:

French TV should include accidentally images of Charles de Gaulle in 1967 refusing to include UK in the EU :chuckle:

Well, we can definitely say he was a visionary.

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There is no reasonable discussion to be had with you all, you are Manichaeism personified, anyone who does not agree with you is a fascist, this is sad that the left has become so irrelevant. Momentum Corbin Diane Abbott what a joke.

yes I am a Tory, yes I support brexit, yes I welcome anyone who really wants to come to this country yes I think this country is the least racist , yes I think that anyone from anywhere will have more chance for a better life than anywhere in Europe, yes I love Europe, yes I believe borders matter, we are all equal but we are different, and I believe differences are beautiful. The Eu would not even exist without the U.K., it’s all about the French and the Germans with the southern countries paying the price. The U.K. is reaching full employment while the Eu economy is regressing, Italy is broke, France has those stupid yellow vests spreading violence every weekend. 

I will ignore this discussion from now on because there is no discussion one can have on the subject nowadays. Just go on with your circle jerk of the permanently offended. It it makes you feel better it can’t be that bad

adios

giphy.gif

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12 minutes ago, elijah said:

Well, we can definitely say he was a visionary.

He was a disgusting Anglophobe, he could not bear that his country was overall nazi friendly, despite the very few who were resisting. He was anti American, anti British, he governed spreading the tale that France resisted, created this president/king that is still plaguing France 

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Save the drama for your May-ma

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