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Donald Trump elected U.S. president ūüöĹ

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10 minutes ago, tumbleweedt said:

I understand what you are saying. But do politicians on the other side of the political spectrum denounce their unsavory supporters? For example, in my country political violence overwhelmingly comes from the extreme left, who for instance use violence against peaceful Pegida protesters. Not only do left wing parties FAIL to denounce these actions, but these violent mobs are even LED by local level politicians of far left parties. 

Inciting violence is never a good thing. Relying on violence is never a good thing. Left parties have blood in their hands, too. I don't stand by it either. 

I would never say those people are right.. but if I have to put it in two groups anarchists on the far left and racists, bigots, nazis, fascists on the far right I wouldn't choose any of them. The big difference between the two is while anarchy has always been anti politics and anti constitutional in the first place no sane politician would gain anything by supporting them.. in fact those people although thought to be supporting left parties are actually apolitical and don't vote! I'm 100% sure they're all protesting Trump on the streets now but how many of them went to vote for Hillary? I bet no one! But racists did go to vote this time. And they voted for Trump! And they will vote for Le Pens.. that's my point. 

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13 minutes ago, MeakMaker said:

Inciting violence is never a good thing. Relying on violence is never a good thing. Left parties have blood in their hands, too. I don't stand by it either. 

I would never say those people are right.. but if I have to put it in two groups anarchists on the far left and racists, bigots, nazis, fascists on the far right I wouldn't choose any of them. The big difference between the two is while anarchy has always been anti politics and anti constitutional in the first place no sane politician would gain anything by supporting them.. in fact those people although thought to be supporting left parties are actually apolitical and don't vote! Racists did go to vote this time. And they voted for Trump! And they will vote for Le Pens.. that's my point. 

I see your point. And I agree with you: violence only begets violence. Maybe in other countries the far left does not vote / have no viable candidates or parties to vote for. In my country however, these socalled anti-fascists of the international socialists most certainly show their political allegiance, even while resorting to violence. These groups are even accompanied and cheered on by elected officials. The mainstream media does not cover this at all. They even make it seem as if the right wing is responsible. "X number of arrests at Pegida demonstration". Turns out most of them are of left wing protesters trying to physically deny other people from exercising their democratic right to participate in peaceful, officially sanctioned demonstrations.

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at least the german speaking media I read, talk both about violence from the far right (when houses planned to accomodate refugees are burnt down or mosques/synagogues are damaged), as well as from the far left (when once again they think it is "fun" to burn or destroy cars - or damage houses of political opponents - and you are right, both sucks. But both sides are nowadays supported from parties of the political spectrum.

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20 minutes ago, beta_test said:

at least the german speaking media I read, talk both about violence from the far right (when houses planned to accomodate refugees are burnt down or mosques/synagogues are damaged), as well as from the far left (when once again they think it is "fun" to burn or destroy cars - or damage houses of political opponents - and you are right, both sucks. But both sides are nowadays supported from parties of the political spectrum.

I'm in the Netherlands. There certainly is vandalism by right wing sympathizers, but the overwhelming majority of political violence comes from the left wing. It's been like this for decades. It doesn't help their cause and may even have the opposite effect.

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37 minutes ago, tumbleweedt said:

I'm in the Netherlands. There certainly is vandalism by right wing sympathizers, but the overwhelming majority of political violence comes from the left wing. It's been like this for decades. It doesn't help their cause and may even have the opposite effect.

so are you supporting geert wilders?

 

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5 hours ago, Hector said:

:cries: at the SNL opening with Kate McKinnon as Hillary Clinton covering "Hallelujah" by Leonard Cohen who passsd away this week at age 82. 

 

That was quite beautiful. Especially the last (new) verse.

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15 hours ago, ULIZOS said:

This is bullshit. The way I would get bashed by GetUnconcious, just as an example, for supporting Bernie Sanders, really got to me. He told me "you're Mexican, what would you know. Leave politics to the big boys." I stopped talking about Bernie Sanders, but what I should've done is gotten louder and REALLY gotten under Hillary's supporters' skin. 

NOBODY heard out anybody during this election. NOBODY in the LA, San Francisco and NYC bubbles of "love" and LGBT rights and recycling and banning plsatic bags ever took a second our of their privileged lives to hear out that other massive side of America whose communities have been devastated by politics over the last 3 decades and that NOBODY has stepped up to to help. Some of those people turned to Trump and others turned to Bernie. And the DNC bashed Bernie's supporters just as much as they bashed Trump's supporters and guess what? They ended up with 6 million less votes than Obama got during last elections when everyone was certain he was going to lose. 

This is what I and millions of people felt like. We were shut up, laughed at, written off as "idealists" and "dreamers" and now you guys are pretending like nobody was talking about this 6 months ago. "Where were you guys before?" "Won't ANYONE THINK OF THE GAYS?!?!?!" 

Give me a damn break. 

tumblr_nk7f2rqb0p1rijmvyo1_540.gif?w=650

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People want to be heard.  Traditional politics and media snub them.  then some whisperer comes and voila,  you got Trump,  Brexit...

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Would we see these protests, financially supported by George Soros, if things were reversed and Trump had won the popular vote by the same margins,and Hill had become President elect?

Of course not!  People who say otherwise are lying. Never heard one Dem mention of the 'corrupt electoral system' before this event. Rather transparent if you ask me.

 

 

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@Love Spent this George Soros satanist funded protests against the secular nationalist governments in middle east :scared: 

& created 6th april chaos movements in cairo.

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17 minutes ago, Love Spent said:

Would we see these protests, financially supported by George Soros, if things were reversed and Trump had won the popular vote by the same margins,and Hill had become President elect?

Of course not!  People who say otherwise are lying. Never heard one Dem mention of the 'corrupt  electoral system' before this event.

 

 

Before which event?  A racist, misogynist, pussy grabbing, lying, bankrupt, obnoxious, narcissist, moronic, xenophobic, homophobic, bigot clown was elected president?  That event?

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29 minutes ago, tumbleweedt said:

Why do you ask?

Don't b ridiculous, u know damn well what she means.

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4 minutes ago, acko said:

Don't b ridiculous, u know damn well what she means.

Be careful not to assume too much. But, please tell me, if you think you know.

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38 minutes ago, Love Spent said:

Would we see these protests, financially supported by George Soros, if things were reversed and Trump had won the popular vote by the same margins,and Hill had become President elect?

Of course not!  People who say otherwise are lying. Never heard one Dem mention of the 'corrupt electoral system' before this event. Rather transparent if you ask me.

 

 

lol that corrupt system is what got HC to head the DNC for this election in the first place :lmao:

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4 hours ago, MeakMaker said:

 People are missing the point here...

Mayberacistns and even Trump are not racist and Im sure it would be anti constitutional for both Le Pens and Trump to be racist or declare themselves racist. They will always have to be careful about what theyre saying. For now anyways.

The problems I have with those two is the fact that true racists or nazi sympathisers are supporting them! And they both have never denounced that! They have never denounced those people or groups. How can you stand there representing your little party knowing that it's supported and promoted and financed by that sort of people! 

They would never in a million of years admit to be racist in this time and age but wait until they get some power.. Did president Trump denounce the KKK celebrating his victory? Or is he actually proud they're standing by him? Does he feel good knowing those people give him the vote? If so why?

Marie Le Pens supporters are the worst. In England we have little political associations like EDL. They're a bunch of hateful racists! And Farage is their idol!! Doesn't that ring alarm bells to you? 

Why no one is calling them out for it? Where's the so called status quo?! Of course these people will never admit to their extremist ideas... it's their supporters who are doing that job for them! 

 

Trump says we are going to build a wall... and they shout Build That Wall or USA! Trump says Muslims have to go and the crowds are cheering and keep shouting USA! I mean they're just selling hate. Those are not solutions! Those are not righteous, assuring policies! But the average hateful racist will buy it and go vote Trump. That's why Trump has to go... he represents a group of peeps who shouldn't have a say; should have been long gone by now! 

You're making a very good point. If they want us to believe they are not racist (lol), they should at least distance themselves from these embarrassing supporters and they don't do it....

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5 minutes ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

lol that corrupt system is what got HC to head the DNC for this election in the first place :lmao:

:roadrunner:

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I know many people who supported Hillary since they thought her plans are more realistic to get through congress, in case she would have been elected (it was pretty much clear the house wouldn't flip). I assume Bernie wouldn't have been better off with a House lead by republicans with his plans. Now, we won't know what would have happened in terms of protests, if Clinton would have won over Trump - but with his rethoric of maybe not accepting the result of the elections in case he would lose (which Clinton has done a few hours after it was clear she lost, and her campaign admitted right away she didn't win), I doubt his people would have just gone home without any protesting and yelling either.

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45 minutes ago, acko said:

Don't b ridiculous, u know damn well what she means.

Acko be careful, you may open a can of worms here. But the fact that tumbleweedt is not answering this very simple question is interesting. To say the least. To me it's highly confusing because tumbleweedt says his/her (sorry don't know) job is to teach refugees the countries language. Something someone in favor Wilders certainly wouldn't do. On the other hand tumbleweedt obviously has kind of of sympathy for the "peaceful Pegida demonstrations". In a way that's kind of conflicting information.

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Donald Trump's populist wave sweeps through Europe

BERLIN ‚ÄĒ As Western Europe gears up for a string of elections over the next year, right-wing¬†parties are¬†seizing¬†on Donald Trump's¬†victory as proof that a strong nationalistic¬†stance against¬†trade and¬†immigration will propel¬†them into power.

A wave of populism already has spread to Eastern Europe, where countries that include Croatia, Hungary, Poland and Slovenia have rightest governments.

Further west, Austria next month could elect Europe's first far-right head of state since World War II . Norbert Hofer of the Freedom Party narrowly lost a race for the largely ceremonial post in April, but a new election was ordered because of alleged irregularities in counting mailed-in ballots.

France, Germany and the Netherlands, which hold general elections in 2017, also have seen a U.S.-style shift in support from mainstream parties to anti-establishment nationalists. The trend comes amid growing anxiety over weak job prospects tied to globalization, as well as a migrant crisis seen as a threat to security and a drain on social welfare benefits.

Many Europeans blame the problems on decades of membership in the European Union, which they feel is oblivious to their concerns about the free flow of labor and migration within the 28-nation bloc.

"People are sick and tired of politicians who refused to listen to their worries about rising immigration, the loss of law and order, taxes being spent abroad while domestic needs are rising, trade agreements that harm employment at home," said Geert Wilders, a Dutch lawmaker and leader of the Netherlands' far-right Party for Freedom.

"We are witnessing a Patriotic Spring, in America as well as in Europe," he told USA TODAY. "Our people have the same worries as the American people. The Trump victory proves that change is possible. There is no doubt this will encourage the Dutch people to vote for change as well."

Wouter Dol of the Netherlands Institute for Multiparty Democracy, a group that helps young democracies organize elections, said Wilders paints himself as a political outsider like Trump despite being a seasoned politician with more than a decade of lawmaking experience.

Netherlands

Wilders is expected to mount a serious challenge to Prime Minister Mark Rutte's conservative-liberal People's Party for Freedom and Democracy in March elections. "The traditional parties have not been sensing the temperature of society very well," said Dol.

Trump's backers identify with his vow to reject the political elite and take back control of American institutions and policy that he claims have been undermined by years of corrupt and inefficient government. "The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer," Trump declared in his victory speech early Wednesday.

Similar themes fueled the frustration that led to Brexit in June, when British voters defied nearly all the polls and expert predictions by rejecting more than 40 years of EU membership. Indeed, when Trump visited the United Kingdom the day after the vote to open a new golf course in Scotland, he said: "They took their country back, just like we will take America back." In August, he joked of calling himself "Mr. Brexit." In October, Trump said he would deliver "Brexit times five."

"This is part of a world-wide phenomenon. It's in the U.S., Europe, but also in Russia, Turkey, China," said Michael Wohlgemuth, director of the Berlin office of Open Europe, a research organization. "There's pretty much a similar pattern everywhere you look, and a lot of it is about identity politics," he added.

Europe's nationalists and far-right leaders were among the first to congratulate President-elect Trump on his upset victory over heavily favored Hillary Clinton.

"What great news. Democracy is still alive," Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán wrote on his Facebook page. In Italy, the head of the anti-establishment Five Star Movement party, Beppe Grillo, said in a blog post that the result showed many people who opposed Trump were "anchored to a world that no longer exists." Grillo is a former comedian-turned-populist who has piled pressure on the center-left government of Prime Minister Matteo Renzi ahead of a December referendum on constitutional reform.

"Voters across the Western world want nation-state democracy, proper border controls and to be in charge of their own lives," said Nigel Farage, the interim leader of the U.K. Independence Party and one of the architects of Brexit. "Prepare for further political shocks in the years to come."

France

One of those shocks could come in France next spring. Polls in French media show Marine Le Pen, leader of the far-right National Front, will comfortably sail into the second round of a presidential election for the first time, although she might not emerge the ultimate winner. "Nothing is immutable," Le Pen said after Trump's win. Her father, party founder Jean-Marie Le Pen, said on Twitter: "Today, the United States, tomorrow France."

Approval ratings for France's current president, socialist Francois Hollande, are abysmal in the wake of a string of terror attacks.

Emilia Palonen, a political scientist at the University of Helsinki whose research focuses on European nationalism, said that while the continent's far-right groups have reacted with glee to a Trump administration, they won't necessarily benefit from it. She said there's always the chance that backlash against Trump could weaken U.S. and European ties, especially if he makes good on his promise to withdraw support for NATO if the military alliance's members don't meet their funding obligations.

"It's not all one-way," she added. "Trump has learned a lot about populism from his European colleagues." She mentioned Orbán's decision to build a razor-wire wall along Hungary's borders to deter migrants, a heavily-criticized move that echoes the president-elect's desire to construct a "great, great wall" along the southern U.S. border and make Mexico pay for it.

Germany

In Germany, where Chancellor Angela Merkel must call an election before October,¬†Wohlgemuth from Open Europe said that despite recent gains in state and local elections by the right-wing and anti-EU¬†Alternative f√ľr Deutschland¬†party (AfD), Germans are¬†unlikely to vote to "pull up the draw-bridge"¬†next year.

"Nationalism and Germany in a post-World War II world do not go together very well," he said. "You won't see AfD as part of any government. We believe in principles and values and not emotional rhetoric."

Ronald Gläser, a recently-elected AfD lawmaker in Berlin, said his party shares some "convictions" with Trump, such as its belief that "the global warming ideology is a dangerous religion."

Gläser said he hoped Trump would make good on a proposal to reduce U.S. forces from around the world and make America more isolationist. "Germans don't want to be spied on by the National Security Agency and we don't appreciate American wars overseas."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/11/13/donald-trump-victory-hailed-europe-populists/93580556/

 

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1 hour ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

Acko be careful, you may open a can of worms here. But the fact that tumbleweedt is not answering this very simple question is interesting. To say the least. To me it's highly confusing because tumbleweedt says his/her (sorry don't know) job is to teach refugees the countries language. Something someone in favor Wilders certainly wouldn't do. On the other hand tumbleweedt obviously has kind of of sympathy for the "peaceful Pegida demonstrations". In a way that's kind of conflicting information.

The reason I haven't immediately answered the question is to try to draw out potential preconceived notions, such as "Wilders voters certainly would not help refugees". Judging from your posts, it is clear that justice and equality really matter to you. I don't know you, but I interpret your posts as motivated by a wish to make things better for all. As I wrote in an earlier post in this thread, I really dislike demonization in general and in political discussions in particular. It's a trap I also fall into myself, of course. But it's a tendency that shuts down debate. The discussion shifts away from the issue at hand. People tune out. I see it all around: raise some concerns about certain issues and people are immediately labeled Wilders-voters (PVV'er in Dutch based on the abbreviation of his political party). This way the exchange of ideas is shut down and the other side is branded a morally wrong person, who MUST be a racist, fascist, or "Islamophobe". This silencing of debate increases division. 

I don't have to be a supporter of Pegida to defend their right to peaceful demonstrations. When you start breaking the law to fight your opponents - or condoning others to do so - you risk becoming what you despise most. Your opponents may even gain from it.

(just to be sure: I do NOT take your statements as a personal attack / you branding ME a morally wrong person. I understand you mean well. I haven't voted for him. Last time I voted for the animal rights party and before that I voted for the socialist party PvdA).

So that's why I asked @Nikki why she asked me that question, to which she hasn't yet replied. Now, I could fall in the trap of speculating why she hasn't. But I won't.

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1 hour ago, Love Spent said:

Of course not!  People who say otherwise are lying. Never heard one Dem mention of the 'corrupt electoral system' before this event. Rather transparent if you ask me.

 

Who are you? Pippi Longstocking? You make the world as you would like to see it? Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous. Just because YOU have never heard the democrats mention the issues with the electoral vote doesn't mean they have not discussed it. And maybe you are a teenager and missed what was going on during the 2000 elections. The very same problem like 2016. No one in the democratic party would have a problem to change the system to purely public vote because the electoral vote only serves the republican party. Considering the electoral votes are supposed to represent the number of citizens of the single states than the electoral votes of the blue states are underrepresented or in other words, the number of electoral votes of the red states is no longer justified by the number the citizens in these states. There is a simple mathematical reason why Republicans want to stick to this system and have so far fought against every attempt to challenge this system. And if no one from the democratic party or any other lawmaker seriously goes after a change then this is because of a rather pragmatic reason. The way US politics work, with its two party system, this is a fight you cannot win. The hurdles to overcome this system are way too high in a system that ranks interests over common sense. There are only two options. 1) you have to change an amendment of the constitution -> not gonna happen with Republicans or 2) states must change their voting rules from "the winner gets all the votes" to splitting the electoral vote based on the public vote -> not gonna happen with the red states.

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