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DanM

Guy Oseary's interview with Billboard about the leak

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I agree with Glinda. I also don't understand the mentality that dictates "well it's out there, so of course we must listen." No. You don't have to. Show some restraint and wait for the finished product. Respect the wishes of the artist who has given us so much.

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Guest Rachelle of London

I think your comments are very harsh and unfair. What makes you think you have to wait forever if you don't get these demos now? The album is going to be released in the spring, which is hardly forever. Fans think they have the right to everything a person has ever recorded, but I don't think they do. Maybe I see it differently because I"m a writer in my job. I do lots of rough drafts of my projects. I really don't want the whole world to see my drafts before I'm ready to present the finished product. I don't feel I have to delete the drafts because it's my work process and maybe I haven't decided yet which parts I am going to keep and which ones I am going to change. I would never occur to me someone would try to steal my unfinished work. Maybe fans don't care if the demos aren't perfect, but maybe Madonna does. Maybe she doesn't want people to hear stuff she isn't happy with. Isn't that her right to control what part of her own work people have a chance to hear. She created it.

No one is stopping fans from discussing the leaked material. There is a whole lengthy thread on here about them.

Most of the demos were taken and were recorded much earlier in the process. She has reworked them and that's why she didn't want people to hear the early version. You act like you begrudge her for taking a ski vacation when she has worked very hard on this album to give us her best work.

:clap:

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I think your comments are very harsh and unfair. What makes you think you have to wait forever if you don't get these demos now? The album is going to be released in the spring, which is hardly forever. Fans think they have the right to everything a person has ever recorded, but I don't think they do. Maybe I see it differently because I"m a writer in my job. I do lots of rough drafts of my projects. I really don't want the whole world to see my drafts before I'm ready to present the finished product. I don't feel I have to delete the drafts because it's my work process and maybe I haven't decided yet which parts I am going to keep and which ones I am going to change. I would never occur to me someone would try to steal my unfinished work. Maybe fans don't care if the demos aren't perfect, but maybe Madonna does. Maybe she doesn't want people to hear stuff she isn't happy with. Isn't that her right to control what part of her own work people have a chance to hear. She created it.

No one is stopping fans from discussing the leaked material. There is a whole lengthy thread on here about them.

Most of the demos were taken and were recorded much earlier in the process. She has reworked them and that's why she didn't want people to hear the early version. You act like you begrudge her for taking a ski vacation when she has worked very hard on this album to give us her best work.

THANK YOU! :wow::thumbsup:

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I agree with Glinda. I also don't understand the mentality that dictates "well it's out there, so of course we must listen." No. You don't have to. Show some restraint and wait for the finished product. Respect the wishes of the artist who has given us so much.

#UnapologeticFan

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At this point, it doesn't matter what happens behind the scenes. Guy is her manager. He makes MILLIONS off of Madonna's hard work and I really don't care what anyone says here but, in my opinion, Madonna deserves someone MUCH better than Guy. This issue isn't an exception, it's something that's been going on for years, for over a decade, and Guy is her manager so regardless of who's actually leaking all of Madonna's work, literally, ALL of Madonna's work, at the end of the day it's his responsibility. And yes, it pisses me off to read that article and see him playing the victim in all of this. Fuck him.

I love it when you are PMS-ing :lol:

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I think your comments are very harsh and unfair. What makes you think you have to wait forever if you don't get these demos now? The album is going to be released in the spring, which is hardly forever. Fans think they have the right to everything a person has ever recorded, but I don't think they do. Maybe I see it differently because I"m a writer in my job. I do lots of rough drafts of my projects. I really don't want the whole world to see my drafts before I'm ready to present the finished product. I don't feel I have to delete the drafts because it's my work process and maybe I haven't decided yet which parts I am going to keep and which ones I am going to change. I would never occur to me someone would try to steal my unfinished work. Maybe fans don't care if the demos aren't perfect, but maybe Madonna does. Maybe she doesn't want people to hear stuff she isn't happy with. Isn't that her right to control what part of her own work people have a chance to hear. She created it.

No one is stopping fans from discussing the leaked material. There is a whole lengthy thread on here about them.

Most of the demos were taken and were recorded much earlier in the process. She has reworked them and that's why she didn't want people to hear the early version. You act like you begrudge her for taking a ski vacation when she has worked very hard on this album to give us her best work.

So I guess, as an artist yourself, you've decided not to listen to any of the leaked music in respect for Madonna's art. You have incredible restraint. Shame on whoever leaked the material. Personally, if it's not going to be released to purchase, I don't even want to know of its existence. But what do I know? I am just a fan of the music. :/

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Lol at him saying 'our music' was stolen. Take a seat, Guy.

Yeah. My eyes rolled back into my head when I read that. lol

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I think your comments are very harsh and unfair. What makes you think you have to wait forever if you don't get these demos now? The album is going to be released in the spring, which is hardly forever. Fans think they have the right to everything a person has ever recorded, but I don't think they do. Maybe I see it differently because I"m a writer in my job. I do lots of rough drafts of my projects. I really don't want the whole world to see my drafts before I'm ready to present the finished product. I don't feel I have to delete the drafts because it's my work process and maybe I haven't decided yet which parts I am going to keep and which ones I am going to change. I would never occur to me someone would try to steal my unfinished work. Maybe fans don't care if the demos aren't perfect, but maybe Madonna does. Maybe she doesn't want people to hear stuff she isn't happy with. Isn't that her right to control what part of her own work people have a chance to hear. She created it.

No one is stopping fans from discussing the leaked material. There is a whole lengthy thread on here about them.

Most of the demos were taken and were recorded much earlier in the process. She has reworked them and that's why she didn't want people to hear the early version. You act like you begrudge her for taking a ski vacation when she has worked very hard on this album to give us her best work.

Wow! I've taken an extremely selfish approach to these leaked demos and have listened to everything that's available and I still agree with everything you're saying here. Maybe that's totally hypocritical but you make an excellent point. :clap:

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I think your comments are very harsh and unfair. What makes you think you have to wait forever if you don't get these demos now? The album is going to be released in the spring, which is hardly forever. Fans think they have the right to everything a person has ever recorded, but I don't think they do. Maybe I see it differently because I"m a writer in my job. I do lots of rough drafts of my projects. I really don't want the whole world to see my drafts before I'm ready to present the finished product. I don't feel I have to delete the drafts because it's my work process and maybe I haven't decided yet which parts I am going to keep and which ones I am going to change. I would never occur to me someone would try to steal my unfinished work. Maybe fans don't care if the demos aren't perfect, but maybe Madonna does. Maybe she doesn't want people to hear stuff she isn't happy with. Isn't that her right to control what part of her own work people have a chance to hear. She created it.

No one is stopping fans from discussing the leaked material. There is a whole lengthy thread on here about them.

Most of the demos were taken and were recorded much earlier in the process. She has reworked them and that's why she didn't want people to hear the early version. You act like you begrudge her for taking a ski vacation when she has worked very hard on this album to give us her best work.

It's really interesting that's your take on it, because I work in the arts and am an artist, but I regularly post versions of incomplete or drafted works. In my case I like being able to share varied incarnations of an idea or of ideas with people who follow them. I suppose it's because of this that I listened to the leaks: I find it fascinating to see Madonna (who I have such respect for as an artist)'s creative process. It is important to bear in mind that they are unfinished and in progress, but it really enriches the experience for me.

Being able to listen to Devil Pray on the leaks made listening to the album version an incredible experience, to know that this lovely folky song had been transformed into this transcendent experience, and being able to, by comparing, see how that was done.

It isn't morally perfect, I accept that, but to me they are there, I haven't stolen them, and it gives me a larger experience to listen.

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I think your comments are very harsh and unfair. What makes you think you have to wait forever if you don't get these demos now? The album is going to be released in the spring, which is hardly forever. Fans think they have the right to everything a person has ever recorded, but I don't think they do. Maybe I see it differently because I"m a writer in my job. I do lots of rough drafts of my projects. I really don't want the whole world to see my drafts before I'm ready to present the finished product. I don't feel I have to delete the drafts because it's my work process and maybe I haven't decided yet which parts I am going to keep and which ones I am going to change. I would never occur to me someone would try to steal my unfinished work. Maybe fans don't care if the demos aren't perfect, but maybe Madonna does. Maybe she doesn't want people to hear stuff she isn't happy with. Isn't that her right to control what part of her own work people have a chance to hear. She created it.

No one is stopping fans from discussing the leaked material. There is a whole lengthy thread on here about them.

Most of the demos were taken and were recorded much earlier in the process. She has reworked them and that's why she didn't want people to hear the early version. You act like you begrudge her for taking a ski vacation when she has worked very hard on this album to give us her best work.

:clap: QUEEN! :clap:

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Guest MadonnaBeLove

Why is it ridiculous that Madonna would pray for the possibility that itunes would be able to relase her work early? Madonna has made no secret that prayer is important to her. Of course prayer would apply when something like this goes down. She may be famous, but she is a human being first. Prayer is not new to her - it's been integral personally and professionally for decades now. She's certainly been an example of a trailblazer in the arena of Spiritual Education, Equality and Human Rights. She has inspired me so much in these areas. Society at large seems to act like celebrites should stop making a big deal about leaks, that this is "the age of the internet" and leaks are just "part of the job" but I think all human beings have a right to basic freedom of choice, privacy and respect. For some it might mean experiencing something simular before they can relate to it. Perhaps someone in your life may have posted photos on Social Media you had no intention of making public? Maybe you've made the mistake of accidently hitting send on an email that you were really only intending to be a draft vent session to get feelings out? People usually feel defferently when they can relate. I certainly wouldn't want any website content or book content to go out to potential clients before I felt ready to release it. How famous Madonna is, or how much money she makes as a result of her efforts, really is not the point. She's not public property because she's a celebrity.

Edited by MadonnaBeLove

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I agree with Glinda. I also don't understand the mentality that dictates "well it's out there, so of course we must listen." No. You don't have to. Show some restraint and wait for the finished product. Respect the wishes of the artist who has given us so much.

Oh brother. We're back on this? I thought the separation of demo/non-demo threads put a stop to the ridiculous bickering over this. Stop judging other fans for listening or not listening. Listening is not the same thing as stealing or spreading. And stop equating listening to disrespecting Madonna. She's not your mother. She's a fucking pop singer. Get a grip and some perspective.

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^ You can't expect everyone to have the same experience of Madonna as you do. I don't understand what it is you don't get about showing an ounce of respect to someone people have become emotionally connected to for so long. If you choose not to become emotionally connected that is your choice but others shouldn't be told to get a grip because they care about another human being.

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^ You can't expect everyone to have the same experience of Madonna as you do. I don't understand what it is you don't get about showing an ounce of respect to someone people have become emotionally connected to for so long. If you choose not to become emotionally connected that is your choice but others shouldn't be told to get a grip because they care about another human being.

Thank you!

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Wow! I've taken an extremely selfish approach to these leaked demos and have listened to everything that's available and I still agree with everything you're saying here. Maybe that's totally hypocritical but you make an excellent point. :clap:

I think the same as you. I see why she's upset and I don't question her right to feel that way, but I've listened to most of the demos as well. I don't have a problem with people listening to them. It's more when people question her sincerity and motives and act like it's all a stunt that gives me a problem.

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Oh brother. We're back on this? I thought the separation of demo/non-demo threads put a stop to the ridiculous bickering over this. Stop judging other fans for listening or not listening. Listening is not the same thing as stealing or spreading. And stop equating listening to disrespecting Madonna. She's not your mother. She's a fucking pop singer. Get a grip and some perspective.

To clarify, I don't judge people for listening. I've listened to most of the demos myself. But at the same time I do understand why she feels upset they were leaked out and she has the right to feel that way. And I don't agree with the people who say she purposely leaked them to get more publicity.

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Oh brother. We're back on this? I thought the separation of demo/non-demo threads put a stop to the ridiculous bickering over this. Stop judging other fans for listening or not listening. Listening is not the same thing as stealing or spreading. And stop equating listening to disrespecting Madonna. She's not your mother. She's a fucking pop singer. Get a grip and some perspective.

I've listened to all the demos, but I have to say that Ive felt bittersweet about it this time. Maybe it makes me a hypocrite, but I feel Madonna is completely justified in feeling the way she feels. Shes made it clear she doesn't like that people are hearing incomplete songs so the fans that are respecting her wishes are not being irrational in any way. I don't understand the defiant attitude. Madonna shouldn't be allowed her fundamental rights as a human being because she's a pop star and we don't personally know her? That's a bit ridiculous.

The way I see it, the leaks are so widespread and it's impossible to turn back at this point so I don't feel like that not listening is going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things. With that said, I would be ashamed if Madonna knew I have been listening to these songs basically on loop for two weeks. Again, this whole thing is very bittersweet but some of us are getting carried away with this sense of entitlement.

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I've listened to all the demos, but I have to say that Ive felt bittersweet about it this time. Maybe it makes me a hypocrite, but I feel Madonna is completely justified in feeling the way she feels. Shes made it clear she doesn't like that people are hearing incomplete songs so the fans that are respecting her wishes are not being irrational in any way. I don't understand the defiant attitude. Madonna shouldn't be allowed her fundamental rights as a human being because she's a pop star and we don't personally know her? That's a bit ridiculous.

The way I see it, the leaks are so widespread and it's impossible to turn back at this point so I don't feel like that not listening is going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things. With that said, I would be ashamed if Madonna knew I have been listening to these songs basically on loop for two weeks. Again, this whole thing is very bittersweet but some of us are getting carried away with this sense of entitlement.

Totally agree with you. I guess I"m a hypocrite too! I have listened but I feel she has the right to feel violated. Most of the demos I have listened to only once or twice and I didn't actually download them. I haven't been listening to them constantly because I do want the album to be fresh and new for me and experience in the way she intended.

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Oh brother. We're back on this? I thought the separation of demo/non-demo threads put a stop to the ridiculous bickering over this. Stop judging other fans for listening or not listening. Listening is not the same thing as stealing or spreading. And stop equating listening to disrespecting Madonna. She's not your mother. She's a fucking pop singer. Get a grip and some perspective.

Nicely put! I agree completely!

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Some people feel better fans and worthy of Madonna by not listening. As if she were going to love her more or something. Reminds me to when i was a kid and my brothers and I tried to catch our mother's atention.

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^ You can't expect everyone to have the same experience of Madonna as you do. I don't understand what it is you don't get about showing an ounce of respect to someone people have become emotionally connected to for so long. If you choose not to become emotionally connected that is your choice but others shouldn't be told to get a grip because they care about another human being.

Huh? I am not judging fans who believe that listening to the demos disrespects Madonna, I am telling people on BOTH SIDES to stop judging each other for listening or not listening, which is exactly what you're doing. What is so hard to comprehend about that? I've been emotionally connected to Madonna and her music since I was 10 years old. I respect Madonna by not stealing her music. I respect her by continuing to support her and keeping an open mind to what she says and does as an artist even when I disagree or dislike something she's done in the past. I respect her by defending her to friends and strangers who try to dismiss or belittle her. If you choose to interpret respecting Madonna by not listening to the demos, then good for you!

To clarify, I don't judge people for listening. I've listened to most of the demos myself. But at the same time I do understand why she feels upset they were leaked out and she has the right to feel that way. And I don't agree with the people who say she purposely leaked them to get more publicity.

My comment wasn't directed at you personally. I agree with everything you just said.

I've listened to all the demos, but I have to say that Ive felt bittersweet about it this time. Maybe it makes me a hypocrite, but I feel Madonna is completely justified in feeling the way she feels. Shes made it clear she doesn't like that people are hearing incomplete songs so the fans that are respecting her wishes are not being irrational in any way. I don't understand the defiant attitude. Madonna shouldn't be allowed her fundamental rights as a human being because she's a pop star and we don't personally know her? That's a bit ridiculous.

The way I see it, the leaks are so widespread and it's impossible to turn back at this point so I don't feel like that not listening is going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things. With that said, I would be ashamed if Madonna knew I have been listening to these songs basically on loop for two weeks. Again, this whole thing is very bittersweet but some of us are getting carried away with this sense of entitlement.

I never said she wasn't completely justified in feeling the way she feels, I never said respecting her wishes was irrational, and I never said she shouldn't be allowed her fundamental rights as a human being. What I DID say, for the umpteenth time, was that fans should stop judging each other listening or not listening. And while I do feel bittersweet about listening to them, I don't feel like a hypocrite (I never said I wouldn't listen or that others shouldn't) and I wouldn't feel ashamed if Madonna knew I've listened. I'm a fan who has supported her for the majority of my life, but she doesn't know me from Adam. The ones who should feel ashamed are the thieves in her inner circle, the ones she KNOWS, the fans or non-fans who leaked the demos, and the fans who are judging each other for something they had no involvement in. Period.

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Well I wasn't responding to "I've been emotionally connected to Madonna and her music since I was 10 years old." I was responding to "She's a fucking pop singer,"

and telling people to get a grip.

I mean you change your tune..so it is what it is.

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Well, I stand by my statement that Madonna is a pop singer. LOL.

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Well, I stand by my statement that Madonna is a pop singer. LOL.

She is a pop singer but she also affects people on a deep emotional level. She does pop music but she does affect people more deeply in ways than people like Katy Perry or Rihanna. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. She kind of talked about this in the Interview piece. She said she was talking with Basquiat about how art should be accessible to a large group of people on a mass scale. Some people think you can only have a big effect on people if you are some obscure underground personality but it's not true.

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Madonna's career has literally been the soundtrack to my life! If that's not emotionally deep, I don't know what is.

I'll never know a life without M.. :adore:

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She is a pop singer but she also affects people on a deep emotional level. She does pop music but she does affect people more deeply in ways than people like Katy Perry or Rihanna. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. She kind of talked about this in the Interview piece. She said she was talking with Basquiat about how art should be accessible to a large group of people on a mass scale. Some people think you can only have a big effect on people if you are some obscure underground personality but it's not true.

Your responding to doubletalk.

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Some people feel better fans and worthy of Madonna by not listening. As if she were going to love her more or something. Reminds me to when i was a kid and my brothers and I tried to catch our mother's atention.

Karbatal, I think you are missing the point entirely. I don't think hardly anyone is judging fans that have listened to the demos, rather just annoyed at the collectors/traders and original leakers. This is the feeling that people are expressing, not judgement of Madonna fans that have listened. In fact, everyone understands why people have listened ( love of Madonna's music ) and are not judging other fans.

I feel generally sad that this forum has become slightly divided when it does not need to be and is not anyone's intention that it should be. We are all passionate fans here and sorry but your comments are not helping at all.

The reason that there are separate new album threads - one with demos and one without - is only in place so that if people don't want to read about demos, they don't have to. It is not a judgement at all on either side and people are not really judging each other over hearing the demos or not.

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She is a pop singer but she also affects people on a deep emotional level. She does pop music but she does affect people more deeply in ways than people like Katy Perry or Rihanna. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. She kind of talked about this in the Interview piece. She said she was talking with Basquiat about how art should be accessible to a large group of people on a mass scale. Some people think you can only have a big effect on people if you are some obscure underground personality but it's not true.

Totally. But the point I was making was that we're talking about leaked demos of pop songs here, not government secrets or personal documents. I'm not trying to undermine the gravity of the situation (30+ demos leaking before the album even drops is unprecedented and understandably devastating to Madonna and her fans and it's about time she got her house in order and sent some heads rolling), but some people are acting like merely listening to stuff that's already out there is tantamount to invading her home and vandalizing photos of her mother.

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We all love Madonna, that's why we're all here. We all love this forum too and the leaks jeopardized its existence though nothing has been leaked here but much of the extreme posts regarding the demos came from the fear of having the forum shut down. Madonnachile got shut down because it was collectors central and they ruined the forum for the last few months and years with constant arguing between them. It became a very negative place, i read some mean comments on Madonna i did not expect to read on a fan forum. When you follow Madonna for so long and her music, art or whatever is such a big part of your everyday life some grow a feeling of entitlement and that they own her.

What really sucked about the leaking of the demos is that we don't know if it comes from a good place, fans wanting to share with other fans the excitement or malignous people trying to destroy Madonna's work and hurt her by leaking unfinished work. It's hard to be judged on something you are still working on and that is not finished, it can really fuck up the artistic process you're in because suddenly everybody have an opinion on what you are making and not what you made. No matter how many records, books, movies etc... you have released you still feel insecure and fragile when you present your new work to the world. Also collaborating with somebody is also trusting somebody and when you get suspicious of everybody it becomes a toxic work environment especially when your work is art and putting your soul in words and music.

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