Happy 5 years 4 Minutes

[acko]

I don't think it should be considered GOOD because of those things. I'm just saying in no way was it bad for her career or a MISTAKE to release, as has been implied many times over the last 5 years and in this thread. A mistake based on what? Personal taste. That's ridiculous. My own opinion and your own opinion of the song aside, the song was a monster of a hit and carried the HC album and that was the intention of releasing that track. It appealed to people that typically could care less about a Madonna song. It did exactly what a single is supposed to do...sell, get airplay and push the album. I just fail to see how that could be considered a mistake based on anything EXCEPT personal opinion of the song.

I dunno if mistake is the right word. But maybe ur glorifying its succes cuz u'd forgotten what it was like 2 hear her new single

getting played on the radio like a proper hit. But the success of the single did not translate 2 the album, cuz people didn't relate

2 it as a Madonna record. It was 2 gimmicky 4 that, & 2 a lot of people it made her look like a desperate old has been. Just saying,

u can call them Ray of Lighters if u want I think in the long run 4 Minutes is irrelevant, Like 'Kokomo' is irrelevant 4 the Beach Boys now

[Kurt420]

I have believed this for a long time, but I really do not think it will happen at this point...but I truly hope that I am wrong. After the Clear Channel ban a decade ago, she has yet to recover. Despite the international success of the COADF singles, US radio did not play them, 4 Minutes was played because of Justin, GMAYL was played as a Super Bowl hype (but then quickly dropped).....unless she does something that ignites the world outside of the radio forcing programmers to take notice, she will only grow older and more irrelevant in their eyes.

Cher's "Believe" was a fluke in 1998 because it was an unexpected about-face sound and move for a respected and beloved legend....currently, the media and much of the general public has a negative view on Madonna (plastic surgery, young boyfriends, trying too hard to hold onto youth....ironically all the things Cher had done prior to Believe....lol).

In time, her image will recover, it always does, she goes through loved and loathed phases more than any other artist, but I believe her commercial success will remain in international album sales and world tour box office scores.

I agree with this. If you really inspect her US radio airplay history closely though, even before AL you can see the decline. Even the holy grail of Madonna albums, ROL, didn't receive the love it should've from US radio. She was still at a point where first single airplay was virtually guaranteed so Frozen did get some love but ROL received minimal airplay and TPOG was pretty much only played on A/C stations. NRM got no love at all. While she was riding high all over the world with AP, US radio pretty much shunned it after it's initial interest. Truly, the only solo Madonna songs of the last 15 years or so that could rival her other US hits in terms of airplay and positive reception would be Frozen, BS (if only a single had been released), Music and DTM. Beyond that, I'd consider it "spotty". Die Another Day was a moderate hit (for about 5 seconds) and HU was ignored for the most part. I think there are MANY factors that play into this.

I do believe any solo hits she has these days will be a Cher/Believe fluke like situation. Her days of consistent hits in the US are definitely over....good image or not. Unfortunately, the music climate is totally different than 1998, even a fluke hit is gonna be harder for her now simply because pop culture/radio is more youth obsessed than ever. Madonna is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. If she ages gracefully she gets called old....just look at how they focus on her "old hands". If she "freshens up" she gets called old and desperate. Really.....these ageist prejudices aren't her problem to be concerned with. All she can do is what she's always done....whatever the fuck she wants!

[Lucky guy]

I don't think it should be considered GOOD because of those things. I'm just saying in no way was it bad for her career or a MISTAKE to release, as has been implied many times over the last 5 years and in this thread. A mistake based on what? Personal taste. That's ridiculous. My own opinion and your own opinion of the song aside, the song was a monster of a hit and carried the HC album and that was the intention of releasing that track. It appealed to people that typically could care less about a Madonna song. It did exactly what a single is supposed to do...sell, get airplay and push the album. I just fail to see how that could be considered a mistake based on anything EXCEPT personal opinion of the song.

I don't think you have sufficient evidence to draw the conclusions you have drawn. We have no idea how a different lead single would have performed in the charts; we have no idea how the album would have performed with a different lead single; and we have no idea what Madonna's subsequent career trajectory would have been had she released a different lead single. So you have nothing to compare 4 Minutes to.

I would argue that the single certainly got on radio due to T&T, but I would propose that it didn't really help the album. As I argued in another thread; you have to compare like with like. Coldplay, an act with a lot of similarities to Madonna in terms of having a mature fan base (more likely to buy albums) faced a relatively modest drop in sales between X & Y and Viva La Vida. Madonna's sales between Confessions and Hard Candy fell off a cliff. Again, I don't have hard evidence to back this up (there is no such thing), but it's no more based on my distaste for Madonna's musical direction than your opinion is based on love of it.

[Crux]

Meh. Not a song I go out of my way to listen to, but I don't hate it.

[CMoody]

Must give the track credit for the clever "don't be a pre-Ma-donna" lyric

[Kurt420]

I dunno if mistake is the right word. But maybe ur glorifying its succes cuz u'd forgotten what it was like 2 hear her new single

getting played on the radio like a proper hit. But the success of the single did not translate 2 the album, cuz people didn't relate

2 it as a Madonna record. It was 2 gimmicky 4 that, & 2 a lot of people it made her look like a desperate old has been. Just saying,

u can call them Ray of Lighters if u want I think in the long run 4 Minutes is irrelevant, Like 'Kokomo' is irrelevant 4 the Beach Boys now

Well, I'm not gonna lie....it WAS exciting to her played on the radio after so long! I'm not trying to say it's a career defining hit like Vogue or Music. I'd say it's more like a TAB. Meaning that, they both were huge hits that feature the hottest producers of the day that aren't necessarily career defining songs but not totally forgotten either. To me 4M is a perfect itunes era single. No, it didn't translate to massive album sales but it certainly HELPED in some sense because HC performed quite well overall. Unfortunately, hits don't necessarily translate into album sales these days, just look at recent Britney and Rihanna albums. They both had numerous hits yet album sales didn't really reflect that massive single success. In another time and a different place, Katy Perry's album would've sold 15 million copies worldwide with all the hits it spawned.

It's sad, but there is very little she can do where people won't be calling her old and desperate. Just her presence makes her old and desperate these days it seems like...lol. I feel like she was totally genuine and totally "Madonna" throughout MDNA era but people still say she's old and desperate.

Oh and about Kokomo....lol.....I DON'T think it's irrelevant, at least not here. I ALWAYS hear that song on A/C radio stations. Still a good comparison though, I DO think it's irrelevant to diehard Beach Boy fans. Most of them have always despised it from what I understand but the general public ate it up and it's pretty much known as their last hit. The same things could be said about 4M. The diehards have never been crazy about it, the general public ate it up and as of now it has been her last truly huge hit.

[IsaacHarris]

Still love it.

Still her best collaboration/ feature.

Still the Madonna single of the 2000's that introduced Madonna to a new audience.

Still the fuckin jam

[Guest Rachelle of London]

Still love it.

Still her best collaboration/ feature.

Still the Madonna single of the 2000's that introduced Madonna to a new audience.

Still the fuckin jam

Amen!

[elijah]

I really dislike the song. It may have introduced her to some new fans, but I have the impression they didnt stick around because 4M is not her typical song. Hard Candy wasnt a bad album, she has yet to record one, but I think starting from it, Madonna began choosing the wrong singles. The very obvious singles were The Beat Goes On and Devil (they have been the favourite songs of all my friends who are not fans and mine). She released neither of it. This rediculous trend went on with MDNA, where I m Addicted, Love Spent and Beautiful Killer ought to be released!

[Kurt420]

I don't think you have sufficient evidence to draw the conclusions you have drawn. We have no idea how a different lead single would have performed in the charts; we have no idea how the album would have performed with a different lead single; and we have no idea what Madonna's subsequent career trajectory would have been had she released a different lead single. So you have nothing to compare 4 Minutes to.

I would argue that the single certainly got on radio due to T&T, but I would propose that it didn't really help the album. As I argued in another thread; you have to compare like with like. Coldplay, an act with a lot of similarities to Madonna in terms of having a mature fan base (more likely to buy albums) faced a relatively modest drop in sales between X & Y and Viva La Vida. Madonna's sales between Confessions and Hard Candy fell off a cliff. Again, I don't have hard evidence to back this up (there is no such thing), but it's no more based on my distaste for Madonna's musical direction than your opinion is based on love of it.

I don't think the conclusion I presented is that irrational. I'm not saying that another song, release date, producer etc etc etc (really there are infinite reasons) wouldn't have catapulted her to even greater success, I'm just saying that what did end up happening didn't harm her career.

I don't think comparing her to Coldplay is that reasonable. First of all Coldplay will always have a one up on Madonna because they are "real musicians" that appeal to a HUGE market that Madonna doesn't connect with on a large scale: straight male rock & roll crowd. If we are comparing HC to COADF on a commercial level, then let's do it on a fair ground such as how both of them fared up on the year end sales charts. Both were within top 10 selling albums of their respective years. I would never deny COADF was more successful, but HC wasn't unsuccessful. If HC sold 3 million copies in a market where the biggest selling albums were selling upwards of 10 million copies, I wouldn't say it was as successful. AL and HC sold not far off from the same amounts but AL didn't finish off anywhere near the top 10 selling albums of 2003 unlike HC in 2008.

[CMoody]

I really dislike the song. It may have introduced her to some new fans, but I have the impression they didnt stick around because 4M is not her typical song. Hard Candy wasnt a bad album, she has yet to record one, but I think starting from it, Madonna began choosing the wrong singles. The very obvious singles were The Beat Goes On and Devil (they have been the favourite songs of all my friends who are not fans and mine). She released neither of it. This rediculous trend went on with MDNA, where I m Addicted, Love Spent and Beautiful Killer ought to be released!

People freaking LOVE Devil....I remember my S&S DVD party back when it was released, several people there flipped for the song and later told me they purchased both the album and live version from Itunes. Definite missed opp on a single release there, it was very US radio-friendly (doubt they would have played it but at least a single release would have garnered the song some more attention)....

[Lucky guy]

I'd say it's more like a TAB.

[Kurt420]

Babyface= Timbo of the 90's.

In the couple years before TAB he had produced for Mariah, Whitney, Toni, Boyz II Men.....all the hot stars of the day. For a while there, his sound was THE pop sound on US radio. Much like with Timbo, she worked with Babyface pretty much right during his peak. Every other song on radio was Babyface produced. Perhaps not lyrically, but production wise TAB is ALL Babyface complete with his background vocals. Does any of this sound remotely familiar?

For the record I like TAB more than 4M but let's not pretend TAB wasn't as much of an attempt to appeal to US radio as 4M was.

[Guest Rachelle of London]

Babyface= Timbo of the 90's.

In the couple years before TAB he had produced for Mariah, Whitney, Toni, Boyz II Men.....all the hot stars of the day. For a while there, his sound was THE pop sound on US radio. Much like with Timbo, she worked with Babyface pretty much right during his peak. Every other song on radio was Babyface produced. Perhaps not lyrically, but production wise TAB is ALL Babyface complete with his background vocals. Does any of this sound remotely familiar?

For the record I like TAB more than 4M but let's not pretend TAB wasn't as much of an attempt to appeal to US radio as 4M was.

I agree!

[Lucky guy]

Babyface= Timbo of the 90's.

In the couple years before TAB he had produced for Mariah, Whitney, Toni, Boyz II Men.....all the hot stars of the day. For a while there, his sound was THE pop sound on US radio. Much like with Timbo, she worked with Babyface pretty much right during his peak. Every other song on radio was Babyface produced. Perhaps not lyrically, but production wise TAB is ALL Babyface complete with his background vocals. Does any of this sound remotely familiar?

For the record I like TAB more than 4M but let's not pretend TAB wasn't as much of an attempt to appeal to US radio as 4M was.

I'm not disputing the parrallels in the situation. Merely the artistic result. Which in painting terms is like comparing a Renoir with a skid mark.

[MPowered]

I really enjoyed the song when it came out and I think it was a good and smart move. I just think there was absolutely no need to make this a duet. This is what ruins the song...I like JT, I really like Timbaland and I love Madonna, of course. But I like them as seperate artists not together. 4 Minutes just lacks Madonna and this is probably why we'll never get to hear this song on a tour again.

Oh and to all the haters complaining about this song...

4 Minutes:

US: 3

Australia: 1

Austria: 2

Canada: 1

France: 2

Germany: 1

Italy: 1

Switzerland: 1

UK: 1

Give Me All Your Luvin':

US: 10

Australia: 25

Austria: 11

Canada: 1

France: 3

Germany: 8

Italy: 2

Switzerland: 6

UK: 37

The video for 4 Minutes was bullshit, though. I didn't like her look during the HC-era at all!

PS: Beat Goes On should've been the second single, instead of Give It 2 Me with a proper video!

[MPowered]

I really dislike the song. It may have introduced her to some new fans, but I have the impression they didnt stick around because 4M is not her typical song. Hard Candy wasnt a bad album, she has yet to record one, but I think starting from it, Madonna began choosing the wrong singles. The very obvious singles were The Beat Goes On and Devil (they have been the favourite songs of all my friends who are not fans and mine). She released neither of it. This rediculous trend went on with MDNA, where I m Addicted, Love Spent and Beautiful Killer ought to be released!

I made the same observation. I think those really were the obvious single choices!

I think the singles should've been released in this order:

1. 4 Minutes (released way earlier in order to create the hype for the album)

2. Beat Goes On (released one week before the album release with a glamour and boxing themed video to get along with the album's original theme)

3. Devil Wouldn't Recognize You

4. She's Not Me, Heartbeat or Give It 2 Me

5. Candy Shop (Live) in support of S&S

[ryan]

Beat Goes On with a boxing theme video?

[Guest Not4Pussies]

Madonna may still have a huge hit in the fuure, she has has to come out with something fresh and good. Plus digital sales and YouTube views now counting on charts, she can still score another top ten hit.

If the next lead single features other artists I will jump on the bandwagon of calling her desperate.

She can do it alone.

[MPowered]

Beat Goes On with a boxing theme video?

Not the DAD kind of video...more like Madonna on her throne defending her title as Queen of Pop and stuff. Very glamorous with some elements from the 50's. BGO is basically Express Yourself 2.0 so it should have an empowering, yet glamorous video to go with it.

[CMoody]

Madonna may still have a huge hit in the fuure, she has has to come out with something fresh and good. Plus digital sales and YouTube views now counting on charts, she can still score another top ten hit.

If the next lead single features other artists I will jump on the bandwagon of calling her desperate.

She can do it alone.

She has to do something fresh and new, like you said. No more chasing popular sound trends or trying to be a "girl at the club". When she is missing from the music scene for a while, that is when the general public is more receptive to her. I think had she released one of the strong tracks from MDNA instead of GMAYL, things woulda been very different.

[Guest]

Only Americans care about chart positions. Why is that?

[adreeyen]

Only Americans care about chart positions. Why is that?

Only people that care about chart positions care about chart positions. It's not an American thing. Don't get it twisted.

[Guest]

I promise you, not one English person I know EVER discussed chart positions or had STAN wars.

[Guest Rachelle of London]

I promise you, not one English person I know EVER discussed chart positions or had STAN wars.

hahahahahha sorry GU but I am guilty of both!

[Guest]

hahahahahha sorry GU but I am guilty of both!

For real? I need to know the scenarios. It's all very Mariah Carey this number one obsession. Look at that failure now!

[Guest Rachelle of London]

For real? I need to know the scenarios. It's all very Mariah Carey this number one obsession. Look at that failure now!

Hahahaha I kind of went into chart number meltdown when MDNA was released but then I blame that on the lack of new music we had from 2009-2012. Also I have had many an argument with Monsters on Twitter. Some of them are vile!

What I don't understand is the American charts, there are soooo many, it would confuse me.

[Guest Not4Pussies]

i dont care about chart positions. i dont care that she doesnt get played on the radio in america anymore because i dont listen to the radio.

ive been fine with her not scoring a number one since 2000 or how a lot of her really good songs don't even chart anymore.

my response was just a response to the few people who said madonna won't ever score another hit.

[Guest Not4Pussies]

oh and it is NOT an american thing.

i am not even american.

[jonski43]

Hahahaha I kind of went into chart number meltdown when MDNA was released but then I blame that on the lack of new music we had from 2009-2012. Also I have had many an argument with Monsters on Twitter. Some of them are vile!

What I don't understand is the American charts, there are soooo many, it would confuse me.

Yes, me too. In fact, the British people on here were more concerned about the flop of MDNA than the Americans especially when GMAYL flopped. Her singles have flopped for years in the US but it was the first time a lead single hadn't made the Top Five and then it stalled at No. 37.