Camille Paglia, TIME: Todays singers r simply aping feeble imitations of M

[VogueMusic]

It has been pointed out before, the problem with Mileys performance is that it looks completely inauthentic. And this has nothing to do with the fact that she was the cute, innocent Hannah Montana character that she wants to get rid off now. No, it's rather that the whole twerking and tongue thing looked like she has absolutely no idea what she was doing at all. Or the whole thing was her idea of what "sexy" is supposed to look like. In result it was a sexless and therefore dull performance and it made it all very uncomfortable to watch. It was flat out mechanic and lacked of emotions. If she tried to seduce someone she failed big time. I guess a lot of people were rather, ewww back off bitch, don't get anywhere closer. Any stripper in a redneck village is more seducing than she was.

Exactly. This is what I was trying to say too.

Love Camille's points in this article

Madonna doesn't come from a factory, that's the whole point

Take her even at her most controversial with the SEX book. It was never about "famous global singer sheds all clothes" and makes loads of money from it (which she also did of course). That book was all about cultural politics. Had she been a Miley, Cristina or Britney, she woudn't have lasted this long. And outlasted 90% of her 80s peers (with the exception of U2, Depeche Mode, Springsteen) and everyone else who followed in the 90s and 2000s

Some of these girls think I'm gonna wear a black Latex suit and an S&M mask or shoot fireworks/cream off my tits and that's me being Erotica or BLOND AMBITION Madonna, controversy. No it's not. But most of all Madonna is a serious musician which you can't say for most other pop acts, male or female

And once again, XXL hits the nail on the head.

[Kurt420]

I agree, XXL and Raiders say it all!!

[CMoody]

Love Camille's points in this article

Madonna doesn't come from a factory, that's the whole point

Take her even at her most controversial with the SEX book. It was never about "famous global singer sheds all clothes" and makes loads of money from it (which she also did of course). That book was all about cultural politics. Had she been a Miley, Cristina or Britney, she woudn't have lasted this long. And outlasted 90% of her 80s peers (with the exception of U2, Depeche Mode, Springsteen) and everyone else who followed in the 90s and 2000s

Some of these girls think I'm gonna wear a black Latex suit and an S&M mask or shoot fireworks/cream off my tits and that's me being Erotica or BLOND AMBITION Madonna, controversy. No it's not. But most of all Madonna is a serious musician which you can't say for most other pop acts, male or female

Agreed, though I wouldn't consider her a serious "muscian"...more of a serious performance artist.

[Mat.Guy]

Agreed, though I wouldn't consider her a serious "muscian"...more of a serious performance artist.

[XXL]

Agreed, though I wouldn't consider her a serious "muscian"...more of a serious performance artist.

well playing drums/guitar in a band qualifies as being a musician in my book

and so does coming up with the music for your songs, not just the lyrics

in any way u look at this, she's certainly more of a musician than jennifer lopez, hilary duff, miley cirus, britney, aguilera, shakira, beyonce rihanna and that list is simply endless

[Rugbyguy]

She looks beautiful there

[CMoody]

well playing drums/guitar in a band qualifies as being a musician in my book

and so does coming up with the music for your songs, not just the lyrics

in any way u look at this, she's certainly more of a musician than jennifer lopez, hilary duff, miley cirus, britney, aguilera, shakira, beyonce rihanna and that list is simply endless

I agree when you put her against the pop stars mentioned, but when I think of a musician, it's someone who can sit down with an instrument and completely compose a piece of music. Madonna has a great ear for pop hooks and she knows what sounds right when she hears it, she is enormously influential during the creative process of her albums, but I cannot think of one song where she composed an entire piece of music completely solo. This is not to degrade her talent, she is certainly very musically inclined, but I personally feel that her true talent is as a performer...be it vocally in a song, physically as a dancer, or emotionally on stage and in still photography and video. To me, Madonna is by far the most compelling and diverse performance artist in popular culture.

[horn]

Gorgeous M!

Which era was this?

[XXL]

I agree when you put her against the pop stars mentioned, but when I think of a musician, it's someone who can sit down with an instrument and completely compose a piece of music. Madonna has a great ear for pop hooks and she knows what sounds right when she hears it, she is enormously influential during the creative process of her albums, but I cannot think of one song where she composed an entire piece of music completely solo. This is not to degrade her talent, she is certainly very musically inclined, but I personally feel that her true talent is as a performer...be it vocally in a song, physically as a dancer, or emotionally on stage and in still photography and video. To me, Madonna is by far the most compelling and diverse performance artist in popular culture.

I get what you mean but by this measure we'd have to rank this way U2 and Depeche Mode too since they have huge production teams behind them, Brian Eno to start with. It's not like Bono ever wrote an entire lyric or piece of music completely by himself but of course he's a man and therein lies the difference

Madonna is the only female music artist that can actually credit authorship and having a real hand in her output in her genre of music, much like Alanis and Tori Amos are for the rock/pop genre. There isn't any other male or female performer in the pop sphere, present on the charts, that can actually claim that

Anything related or formerly related to the Disney Corporation, any TV show act or Tommy Mottola affiliate is a joke of a suggestion and most of the stuff u see charting today comes from those quarters or their direct industry descendancy

[CMoody]

As I said, I do agree with you when it comes to the pop spectrum, no one in the genre is as involved with the creative input/output of their music as Madonna. Still, when I think of female musicians, I think of the likes of Dolly Parton or Joni Mitchell. Dolly has written over 3,000 songs, these are just the published (not necessarily recorded), Dolly sat with her guitar and composed the likes of "Jolene" and "I Will Always Love You" all by herself....this had nothing to do with the later production. That is what constitutes a complete songwriter, composition of both the music and the lyrics.

A musician (or "instrumentalist") is a person who plays a musical instrument, especially (although not necessarily) as a profession, or is talented,^[1] in making music or performing music creatively, or one who composes, conducts, or performs (especially instrumental) music.

Going by that definition I guess we could say that Madonna is a musician in the sense that she does "perform" her music, but if we are going by instrument abilities only, I would certainly never say that her drum or guitar playing would qualify her in comparison to her performance art abilities.

[Raider of the lost Ark]

^^^ But we don't know whats going on behind closed doors. She might very well sit at home and come up with songs playing the guitar. But I guess she may have done so but considering her collaborative workstyle she probably gave it to some producers who added a thing or two to make the song a little bit better. Since she never had a problem to share credits we don't know how things worked. And keep in mind that some of her producers (don't remember which one exactly) said that is not getting enough credit considering how involved she is in the production and that it's usually her that comes up with the killer hooks that make her songs so memorable.

[XXL]

^^^ But we don't know whats going on behind closed doors. She might very well sit at home and come up with songs playing the guitar. But I guess she may have done so but considering her collaborative workstyle she probably gave it to some producers who added a thing or two to make the song a little bit better. Since she never had a problem to share credits we don't know how things worked. And keep in mind that some of her producers (don't remember which one exactly) said that is not getting enough credit considering how involved she is in the production and that it's usually her that comes up with the killer hooks that make her songs so memorable.

[XXL]

As I said, I do agree with you when it comes to the pop spectrum, no one in the genre is as involved with the creative input/output of their music as Madonna. Still, when I think of female musicians, I think of the likes of Dolly Parton or Joni Mitchell. Dolly has written over 3,000 songs, these are just the published (not necessarily recorded), Dolly sat with her guitar and composed the likes of "Jolene" and "I Will Always Love You" all by herself....this had nothing to do with the later production. That is what constitutes a complete songwriter, composition of both the music and the lyrics.

A musician (or "instrumentalist") is a person who plays a musical instrument, especially (although not necessarily) as a profession, or is talented,^[1] in making music or performing music creatively, or one who composes, conducts, or performs (especially instrumental) music.

Going by that definition I guess we could say that Madonna is a musician in the sense that she does "perform" her music, but if we are going by instrument abilities only, I would certainly never say that her drum or guitar playing would qualify her in comparison to her performance art abilities.

You have to come up with a better example if we are to go by that definition

Dolly Parton is a serious artist and great performer for her genre

Loved a coupple of her films too

But no

She's definitely no more a musician (instrument player) and lyricist than Madonna is

No way

[Pop]

I disagree.

I think today's Madonna is simply an imitation of other more popular popstars (Rihanna, Britney Spears, etc)

[Raider of the lost Ark]

I disagree.

I think today's Madonna is simply an imitation of other more popular popstars (Rihanna, Britney Spears, etc)

Honey, you finally need to understand there are no more popular popstars than Madonna. She is the biggest star in the world. Period.

[adreeyen]

I disagree.

I think today's Madonna is simply an imitation of other more popular popstars (Rihanna, Britney Spears, etc)

Spill that truth tea, gurl! You are slaying with these highly intelligent, totally legitimate posts! Snatch those wigs!

[Jazzy Jan]

I disagree.

I think today's Madonna is simply an imitation of other more popular popstars (Rihanna, Britney Spears, etc)

Spill that truth tea, gurl! You are slaying with these highly intelligent, totally legitimate posts! Snatch those wigs!

You tell them Adrian

Pop, we have always known that you are not really a Madonna fan, just a lying little monster. This post you printed, completely proves it without a doubt. You really should just go to Gaga Daily and spend time with your fellow little monsters adoring Mother Monster. You Monsters need to stay together because the clock is ticking for the career of your idol.

[realityisalways]

Gorgeous M!

Which era was this?

Hard Candy:

https://sphotos-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/1003050_369036326556813_1304832834_n.jpg

[realityisalways]

I disagree.

I think today's Madonna is simply an imitation of other more popular popstars (Rihanna, Britney Spears, etc)

Then what are you doing here?

I love how 'less popular' Madonna topped Forbes in 2012 AND 2013.

[adreeyen]

Hard Candy:

Gorg pic. She looks so seductive, what a fuck-me face.

[XXL]

Gorg pic. She looks so seductive, what a fuck-me face.

And look at that body

2 months after this Elle Munro shoot was made she turned 50

Amazing

[Larkspur]

I agree when you put her against the pop stars mentioned, but when I think of a musician, it's someone who can sit down with an instrument and completely compose a piece of music. Madonna has a great ear for pop hooks and she knows what sounds right when she hears it, she is enormously influential during the creative process of her albums, but I cannot think of one song where she composed an entire piece of music completely solo. This is not to degrade her talent, she is certainly very musically inclined, but I personally feel that her true talent is as a performer...be it vocally in a song, physically as a

dancer, or emotionally on stage and in still photography and video. To me, Madonna is by far the most compelling and diverse performance artist in popular culture.

Lucky Star, Burning Up, I know it, Think of Me, Everybody has her as the sole writer I believe. I do believe that Madonna gets the most joy from performing her songs and bringing her songs to life in a visual way which is why I never never understand why she hasn't combined her love of film with song longer than the videos she once made. I think Madonna does have a way with words and a keen sense of sound but contrary to what most believe I don't think she is as confident as she portrays. Being a perfectionist and maybe critical of herself I can see her happily collaborate with someone else if they help her realise her vision for the song and that it met with the approval of someone she admires.

Whats funny about Madonna is the perception of her compared to the perception of other artists. I grew up loving other artists but always took for granted that they did everything. They wrote all the words, they played all the instruments, they did everything. When I look into different artists who get automatic respect I find that a lot of them collaborated with different people to write songs, write music. It's taken as a given that they work alone and are praised. Nobody even questions it or more telling, they don't care. I find out that people I just took for granted worked completely alone actually have had co writers.

There are some that do work alone and if that's what makes you happy as a musician than I respect that. Some are introverted and prefer to do things alone. Others are more extraverted and enjoy working with others. The thing is Madonna also might be were she is today because she is open to criticism and hearing other points of view.

[Guest]

I disagree.

I think today's Madonna is simply an imitation of other more popular popstars (Rihanna, Britney Spears, etc)

This will never happen. The likes of Rihanna are mediocre at best.

[Pop]

This will never happen. The likes of Rihanna are mediocre at best.

I agree.

That's why I don't understand why Madonna is trying to sound like the current pop girls who are obviously inferior to her.

She needs to go back to making quality music like Ray Of Light, American Life and COADF.

[Nessie]

She needs to go back to making quality music like Ray Of Light, American Life and COADF.

And you call Lady Gargoyle quality music. Go figure.

[Kurt420]

I disagree.

I think today's Madonna is simply an imitation of other more popular popstars (Rihanna, Britney Spears, etc)

How so? What have any of them done that Madonna has never done before that Madonna has copied?

[Kurt420]

I agree.

That's why I don't understand why Madonna is trying to sound like the current pop girls who are obviously inferior to her.

She needs to go back to making quality music like Ray Of Light, American Life and COADF.

But all the current pop girls try to sound like Madonna......one in particular has even tried to LOOK like her many many times (although she can't help that she's blond and Italian of course).

[Pop]

How so? What have any of them done that Madonna has never done before that Madonna has copied?

Horrible music with phoned-in vocals like MDNA and most of Hard Candy.

Madonna is above that. She shouldn't be tarnishing her amazing discography with albums she recorded in one afternoon to promote her perfume and tour. She should leave that to the lessors.

[Kurt420]

Horrible music with phoned-in vocals like MDNA and most of Hard Candy.

Madonna is above that. She shouldn't be tarnishing her amazing discography with albums she recorded in one afternoon to promote her perfume and tour. She should leave that to the lessors.

Horrible music according to whom? Both of those albums received overall good reviews and were among the top selling albums of their respective years.

If you bothered to check the Madonna albums genesis timeline thread pinned at the top of the forum, you'd see both albums took about the same amount of time as any of her others.

[VogueMusic]

Lucky Star, Burning Up, I know it, Think of Me, Everybody has her as the sole writer I believe. I do believe that Madonna gets the most joy from performing her songs and bringing her songs to life in a visual way which is why I never never understand why she hasn't combined her love of film with song longer than the videos she once made. I think Madonna does have a way with words and a keen sense of sound but contrary to what most believe I don't think she is as confident as she portrays. Being a perfectionist and maybe critical of herself I can see her happily collaborate with someone else if they help her realise her vision for the song and that it met with the approval of someone she admires.

Whats funny about Madonna is the perception of her compared to the perception of other artists. I grew up loving other artists but always took for granted that they did everything. They wrote all the words, they played all the instruments, they did everything. When I look into different artists who get automatic respect I find that a lot of them collaborated with different people to write songs, write music. It's taken as a given that they work alone and are praised. Nobody even questions it or more telling, they don't care. I find out that people I just took for granted worked completely alone actually have had co writers.

There are some that do work alone and if that's what makes you happy as a musician than I respect that. Some are introverted and prefer to do things alone. Others are more extraverted and enjoy working with others. The thing is Madonna also might be were she is today because she is open to criticism and hearing other points of view.

THIS!!!!

I find the artists that I like most are the ones that did NOT do everything by themselves.

And a lot of the ones that did everything by themselves often become stale and start repeating themselves...mostly due to what seems like a massive ego, as if collaborating with others is beneath them.