Madonna being referenced heavily in news coverage of Jackson's death

[Crystal Coffin]

Isn't it about time that Grammy's Give Madonna the LEGEND AWARD, same MJ had..I think She deserve to be there...don't you?

Madonna would say "I'm not dead yet".

[davejr.]

well as far as I know, Barbra , eltonjohn and others are still alive and kicking.

[Zezwer]

MJ was never one of my favorites to be honest and if the pedophile rumors were actually true, then i'm not gonna go around and mourn this man for sure. For me, it just doesn't feel right. I can't mourn a person who did awful things. Even if he didn't do any of those stuff, it just feels awkward that he might have done it. Why should he have some amnesty treatment just because he was this musical icon? Kind of sick actually to think of it. I know alot of people here were fans of him, but for me the whole thing is just awkward.

As for Madonna and MJ, and i'm NOT being biased now, but I think Madonna has indeed the stronger song-catalogue of them two and also better videos. I'm not denying MJ's impact, but I always found him a little overrated. MJ kind of always did the same thing. He did have some really good pop songs during his career, but he never really changed styles and images as Madonna did. MJ recycled way more often than Madonna ever did.

I believe Madonna has gone way more directions musically than MJ, yet MJ is the one being called a "musical genius". I think in the end it's all about woman vs. man. For me Madonna IS the better artist, both visually and musically, but because she's a woman, she will never get the praise as a male equivalence and also she will be met with more suspicion than a male will. Also, Madonna gets too little recognition and respect I think. for the fact that she's one of the most famous people on earth, yet she kept her feet on the ground and didn't go nuts, like for instance MJ and many others. I think people forget this aspect, like it's not important or something?

Madonna worked her way to the top in a healthy way. That's why she didn't loose her mind I think. She was already an adult when she got into the business and it was her own choice. MJ got his name as a puppet for his lunatic stage parents. I'm not saying he didn't earn his success later on, i'm just saying that it was somewhat a forced career, and it obviously effected him in many ways.

As for Prince, he is not in the league of Madonna and MJ I think. Yes, he had some great records. But I find most of his work dull and the reason he is mentioned is because he had just as long career and is the same age. I think some people exaggerate his impact actually. He had sooo many albums compared to the other two, but he barely had the amount of rememberable hits as Madonna and MJ had. I don't think he is up there with them to be frank. And nowadays he barely makes any impact anywhere, his latest releases are flopping and he rarely had any hit record for the past 10 years actually. Madonna is still relevant and MJ, well, he wasn't relevant for 10+ years I guess, but his backcatalogue was strong enough I guess to make him relevant. I think Madonna has never made a bad album like some of Prince albums were, because although he had some good ones, many were almost awfully bad I think.

As for Madonna being referenced that much, I think it's not too weird, she is the Queen and Michael was the King.

[Guest Danny86]

Prince's impact goes way beyond the number of hits he had. For starters, after Thriller, MJ was basically copying the Minneapolis sound Prince put into the mainstream, and it's also the reason why Janet became star, because Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, who worked for Prince, gave her that sound in a watered down, more pop-sounding way.

Also, not only Prince is responsible for the "parental advisory" sticker, I believe he really set the template for dirty and explicit lyrics, like "Head" which was still the early 80s. And it can also be argued that Prince influenced Madonna herself in terms of live performance. Just before BAT, on the Lovesexy Tour Prince was already doing the mixing of sex and religion.

It's true that the number of his hits pale in comparison to Madonna or MJ, and his videos are only remembered for being typical 80s relics, his sound definitely shaped pop music. I think it was said on this forum recently, that super-producers like The Neptunes and Timbaland draw directly from Prince. Songs like "Hollaback Girl" or "Until The End Of Time" are almost Prince-tributes in terms of their sound.

His releases don't make any impact and were mostly flops in the last decade, because he rarely had any label support, and after Purple Rain he intentionally started to make "weird" music. His recent 3CD album has a lot of mainstream stuff, but he does not have a label to send the songs to radio etc, so it can't make any impact, but that's hardly the fault of the quality of his music.

[Narendra Sen]

but because she's a woman, she will never get the praise as a male equivalence and also she will be met with more suspicion than a male will. Also, Madonna gets too little recognition and respect I think. for the fact that she's one of the most famous people on earth

That's because Madonna is much more controversial than Michael has ever been. I know a lot of people who hate Madonna and don't consider her a real artist - they say she's a whore, she's talentless, has no voice, her music is cheap - you name it! Michael's music wasn't that controversial and for a woman being ballsy and singing about sex and religion and other stuff like that the way she did was pretty outrageous at that time. Plus, the pedophilia cases Michael was accused of 'happened' after he had pretty much stopped singing or releasing any music, so people don't associate those cases with that period of time when he was at his best (the 80's and early 90's) - and they really shouldn't, IMO.

But Madonna somehow integrated her sexuality in her music and her private life wasn't that private, which made a lot of people think her music is superficial and I think she lost a lot of fans in the 'Erotica era' 'cause they thought she had gone too far. Even nowadays many consider her a slut and they judge her music by this criteria and don't give the recognition that she should actually receive.

[GimmeSomeMo]

As for Prince, he is not in the league of Madonna and MJ I think. Yes, he had some great records. But I find most of his work dull and the reason he is mentioned is because he had just as long career and is the same age. I think some people exaggerate his impact actually. He had sooo many albums compared to the other two, but he barely had the amount of rememberable hits as Madonna and MJ had. I don't think he is up there with them to be frank. And nowadays he barely makes any impact anywhere, his latest releases are flopping and he rarely had any hit record for the past 10 years actually. Madonna is still relevant and MJ, well, he wasn't relevant for 10+ years I guess, but his backcatalogue was strong enough I guess to make him relevant. I think Madonna has never made a bad album like some of Prince albums were, because although he had some good ones, many were almost awfully bad I think.

You obviously know very little about Prince. The man is a true visionary and possible the most talented guy musically to come out in the past 20+ years. Music runs in his veins and his performances are blinding. Please do your research.

[Zezwer]

You obviously know very little about Prince. The man is a true visionary and possible the most talented guy musically to come out in the past 20+ years. Music runs in his veins and his performances are blinding. Please do your research.

What's there to know? I dislike most of his music and I don't have to do any research to admit that.

I also don't have to do any research to see that his impact is not as major as some people may think. He will be remembered for a couple of songs, while Madonna and MJ will be remembered for plenty more. Also his career is kind of nothing nowadays.

No research needed.

[promise to try]

What's there to know? I dislike most of his music and I don't have to do any research to admit that.

I also don't have to do any research to see that his impact is not as major as some people may think. He will be remembered for a couple of songs, while Madonna and MJ will be remembered for plenty more. Also his career is kind of nothing nowadays.

No research needed.

maybe regular people only will remember 6-7 songs, but the musicians will know more than that...anyway, great we are talking about great artist, both are going to be remembered!

[Phantom Pain]

i think that's the thing about Prince , you have to do research to realize how influential he is , but with Michael and Madonna you don't have to , because they're more famous

maybe Prince was as big as MJ and M in the 80s in the US , but internationally i don't think he was as famous

MJ and M were HUGE , even in the Middle East , and that's saying a LOT

even our Wahabi religion teacher in secondary school knows Madonna , that's how famous she is!!

[Zezwer]

i think that's the thing about Prince , you have to do research to realize how influential he is , but with micahel and madonna you don't have to , because they're more famous

maybe Prince was as big as MJ and M in the 80s in the US , but internationally i don't think he was as famous

MJ and M were HUGE , even in the Middle East , and that's saying a LOT

even our Wahabi religion teacher in secondary school knows Madonna , that's how famous she is!!

Yes, this is what I meant aswell. But the fact that someone has to do research to find out the impact of an artist basically says it all. Some people you don't have to do any research to see their impact or remember their songs.

Eventhough I personally don't like Prince, even I can admit that he probably influenced music in one way or another and offcourse he had his moments when he had an actual impact on people in general aswell, but NEVER like Madonna or MJ, and that was my point, and therefor I can't put him up there with them.

First of all, just like you say, Prince was always more local. While he had his periods of worldwide fame, it was never as consistent or longlived as with M and MJ.

And outside his fanbase and professional musicians, he won't be remembered for too much, while M's and MJ's music have made its way to soo many more people.

[laisla]

i alway think

was Grammy's AWARD and AMA control by BLACK

maybe they dont like madonna

[Guest bluejean]

Prince wasn't as famous. But unlike MJ and Madonna, he wrote, produced and performed everything himself. I think his influence is hugely in music production and songwriting.

Michael Jackson I think is more influential for his vocal and performance/dance style. In some cases songwriting, but he didn't craft the sound of his songs as Prince did.

[Guest missy bi_tch]

Will there be such a frenzy when madonna dies?

[Dr Lecter]

If she died in tragic circumstances like Jacko, probably

I have a feeling she will be around for ages and die when she is very old, and it will be a big deal, but prob not as much hysteria

Apart from me in my wheelchair....

[mtzlplk]

^ honestly, i think it will not match this frenzy... unless it is a tragic death...

[Dindi]

I reckon hers (and probably Paul McCartney's) will be much more like Sinatra's. There will be plenty of tributes, but not as much hysteria. By then, her core fan base may be geriatric too.

There's something more sensational and tragic about an icon that died way before his time.

[Braby]

Another link/reference: TIC is listed under the Michael Jackson section on Amazon UK, the only non-MJ release to be there. I think it has completely sold out though.

[Supernatural]

TIC sold out at Amazon US

[MadFan]

See, I've always had this horrid gut instinct that Madonna will go before her time, same with Jacko. I would be distrought, but I've always had that innate feeling. Here's hoping I'm wrong.

And Michael, according to Lisa Marie, knew fully well he was going to die young and had accepted it. Odd how things like that happen.

[Supernatural]

And Michael, according to Lisa Marie, knew fully well he was going to die young and had accepted it. Odd how things like that happen.

I'm guessing he knew deep down his problems with drugs were going to catch up with him.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Prince's impact goes way beyond the number of hits he had. For starters, after Thriller, MJ was basically copying the Minneapolis sound Prince put into the mainstream, and it's also the reason why Janet became star, because Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, who worked for Prince, gave her that sound in a watered down, more pop-sounding way.

I agree, that's why it baffles me when MJ fans belittle Prince because he didn't sell as many albums. Janet herself was part of the Prince sound. Control had "Minneapolis" written all over it and besides Jam and Lewis, other Time members (and remember Time were Prince proteges) such as Jellybean Johnson and Monte Moir wrote songs and played on the album as well.

Prince was never the out-and-out superstar that causes pandemonium and stops traffic like MJ or Madonna, but I think his influence on popular music as we know it is bigger than he's credited for. People point out MJ's influence on JT, but listen to FutureSex/LoveSounds, SexyBack is VERY Prince influenced, Until The End Of Time even sounds like a Prince outtake circa 1984-1985. Not to take anything away from MJ as he deserves all the attention he's receiving in death, but I do feel like Prince sometimes gets lost in the shuffle and is unfortunately unsung when stacked next to MJ, and IMO him and MJ were equals.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Yes, this is what I meant aswell. But the fact that someone has to do research to find out the impact of an artist basically says it all. Some people you don't have to do any research to see their impact or remember their songs.

Eventhough I personally don't like Prince, even I can admit that he probably influenced music in one way or another and offcourse he had his moments when he had an actual impact on people in general aswell, but NEVER like Madonna or MJ, and that was my point, and therefor I can't put him up there with them.

First of all, just like you say, Prince was always more local. While he had his periods of worldwide fame, it was never as consistent or longlived as with M and MJ.

And outside his fanbase and professional musicians, he won't be remembered for too much, while M's and MJ's music have made its way to soo many more people.

Why do people forget that Prince always wanted to be a musician? MJ and Madonna wanted to be the biggest, all Prince wanted was to be the best. He hated the fame that Purple Rain gave him and recorded Around The World In A Day almost as a reflex because he knew ATWIAD would be the album that would filter out the true fans from those who were caught up in the Purple Rain mania.

I'm not saying Prince never wanted a hit record, Diamonds And Pearls is a perfect example of him intentionally doing something that he knew would give him a commercial comeback because he wanted to continue making hits in the 90's. But when you look at his career, he was never as mainstream as his peers, he never wanted to be because he never wanted to be stifled and if he was expected to deliver an album of Purple Rain's appeal everytime (much like how Sony demanded every MJ album to be as good as Thriller), he would've lost his touch.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

See, I've always had this horrid gut instinct that Madonna will go before her time, same with Jacko. I would be distrought, but I've always had that innate feeling. Here's hoping I'm wrong.

Not just saying it as a fan, but Madonna strikes me as a survivor, she seems like someone who will be here long after most of her peers are gone, kind of like how Paul McCartney is still here and kicking even tho he's lost a wife, two bandmates, Michael Jackson and a number of other people he worked with or was linked with.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

^ Good analysis and comparison/contrasting of the three big megastars.

I love all three in different ways. Being the age I am, Michael, Prince and Madonna were perhaps the three biggest reasons I fell in love with music to begin with (granted I also was huge on Boy George, Cyndi and several others) by the time I was five years old. The world began and ended with those three as far as I cared back then. They were all fantastic with what they did and remain unparalleled IMO.

[acko]

I do think of the three, Prince's catalog is probably the most ultimately frustrating, because while some of his best work (Purple Rain, SOTT, 1999, Dirty Mind) is up there with the best Michael or Madonna ever put out, he's also put out loads of crap in his career. Madonna nor Michael have ever unleashed anything as bad as Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic on the world. I think MJ had a problem with being too meticulous in the studio and crafting a song longer than most artists can do an album AND tour -- which explains why he had so little output in such a long career, but Prince sometimes would just put too much out for his own good as well. When Prince could touch gold, he was able to put out a number of great albums at once (just look at 1984 when he gave us Purple Rain, The Time's Ice Cream Castles, Apollonia 6 and Sheila E's The Glamorous Life all within a three month period, all of which he wrote every track and played on) but he wasn't quite as good in the 90's. I will always be a bigger Prince fan than MJ because I feel like Prince has done a better job living up to his original promise and like Madonna, there's a Prince song for every possible mood, but I can understand why a lot of people prefer MJ, he was more accessible and no matter how "weird" his image got, it never translated onto album (even though I thought Prince recorded some of his best music when he was "weird and pretentious").

I will not stand 4 this belittling of my little Princey

No, but seriously MJ & Madonna NEVER reached that level of brilliance in a strictly musical sense.

Prince the musician is not 'up there' with The Beatles & Elvis..he's up there with fucking Mozart. He's a pure musical genius & no amount of crap albums is ever gonna take aways from the brilliance of his string of classic abums. Obviously, as we can c today, the scandilitis didn't affect MJ & the musical legacy of Thriller (that's one album) nor some of the filler on overproduced records like 'Bad', 'Dangerous' & 'History' & let's face it those r hardly some of the best albums ever made..So I don't think 'Rave un2 the Joy..' or 'Come' will tarnish Prince's musical legacy.

But how wonderful that we as a generation had those 3..

2 b loved each 4 their own specific reasons. 4ever.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

People keep saying Prince has "lots" of bad albums? How many bad ones does he really have? IMO, New Power Soul, Rave, Rainbow Children and Planet Earth are the only ones I'd say have a larger forgettable to memorable ratio with songs. Not every album is a Dirty Mind or SO'TT, but everyone talks about how he hasn't recorded a good album since.

But I still stand by my statement that his catalog is the most frustrating AND CHALLENGING one between Madonna, MJ and him. You know what you're getting with a MJ album, and Madonna has a habit of even making her filler tracks memorable, but with Prince, you better devote your undivided attention to everu note and listen to the albums multiple times before it resonates. To say he's got the most frustrating catalog is not belittling or insulting at all, because in the end I think it's ultimately rewarding for the fact that he's never been as accessible. That was another thing that got me into Bowie, the albums I most appreciate now are the ones I could not "get" on first listen.

[acko]

People keep saying Prince has "lots" of bad albums? How many bad ones does he really have? IMO, New Power Soul, Rave, Rainbow Children and Planet Earth are the only ones I'd say have a larger forgettable to memorable ratio with songs. Not every album is a Dirty Mind or SO'TT, but everyone talks about how he hasn't recorded a good album since.

But I still stand by my statement that his catalog is the most frustrating AND CHALLENGING one between Madonna, MJ and him. You know what you're getting with a MJ album, and Madonna has a habit of even making her filler tracks memorable, but with Prince, you better devote your undivided attention to everu note and listen to the albums multiple times before it resonates. To say he's got the most frustrating catalog is not belittling or insulting at all, because in the end I think it's ultimately rewarding for the fact that he's never been as accessible. That was another thing that got me into Bowie, the albums I most appreciate now are the ones I could not "get" on first listen.

Okay I'm weird I know...but I love newpowersoul & it is credited as an NPG album so.. great party album

Rainbow is good 2! Fusion/jazz might just not b ur cup of tea. It was probably his best in years at that point.

I think it was more the in between albums like 'Come' & 'Chaos..' trying 2 sabotage Warners not realizing he was scaring off a large part of the general record buying public. Rave was just silly & crap really.

I agree with what ur saying..but I think when it comes 2 retrospective thought..people don't really go

beyond an artist's 'classic' period...& I think interestingly enough Madonna is the only one out of the 3

to have had two such periods '84-'90 & Rol-Music!

What's ur take on MJ being a musical genious? I read that a lot in the papers 2day..& I must say I always

saw it more along the lines of a brilliant collaboration between Quincy Jones & the man himself.

The other sentance that made me a bit mushy 2day is 'In the select company of Elvis Presley, The Beatles & Madonna.' Warners if ur reading this, the shit u own is precious so better take care of that Greatest Hits.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

What's ur take on MJ being a musical genious? I read that a lot in the papers 2day..& I must say I always

saw it more along the lines of a brilliant collaboration between Quincy Jones & the man himself.

The other sentance that made me a bit mushy 2day is 'In the select company of Elvis Presley, The Beatles & Madonna.' Warners if ur reading this, the shit u own is precious so better take care of that Greatest Hits.

I agree with you. I think "musical genius" is a little too much but I think it was more a case of musical talent and Quincy was his muse that brought everything to life the way MJ wanted it. It's like Elton John, he is a very talented man but it's when he collaborates with Bernie Taupin where the talent shown because they were musical soulmates, he was no genius and his material that he did when he and Bernie weren't on speaking terms was a testament to the fact that he's talented, but not genius. Bernie is to Elton what Quincy was to MJ.

[Braby]

The other sentance that made me a bit mushy 2day is 'In the select company of Elvis Presley, The Beatles & Madonna.' Warners if ur reading this, the shit u own is precious so better take care of that Greatest Hits.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Also, you just KNOW that every SINGLE review of the upcoming greatest hits will include an Michael Jackson reference.

[Guest jamesshot]

Why does everyone say Elvis was a great musician. He really didn't write his own songs( yes the Col made him get writing credit on some songs but there is great controversy on his actual writing contributions). He was a phenomenal performer.

Michael also didn't invent the 'Moonwalk'. I saw a special last night on MSNBC about MJ and they said the 'Moonwalk' has been around since the 40's and they showed a guy doing it. They also said MJ looked to the streets to find his moves ( sound like someone else we know?). Yet he gets credited for "inventing" his moves while M is accused of stealing hers.