Hard Candy SoundScan/Billboard 200 Discussion

[HolidayGuy]

Can we please keep things civil?

Hard Candy is a commercial album- but, Madonna is 50 years old, and today's youth- which the music is catered to- just isn't that interested in her. If it were just her on 4M, you know dang well it probably wouldn't have sold anything near 2 million+ units as a digital single.

And it's true- sales really can't be compared to COADF. Why AL is the better comparison (despite the fact that AL was not as commercial as HC- but, at the same time, AL came on the heels of an album that scanned 1.2m+ more than COADF).

[goldtooth]

Albert Einstein once said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Replace "doing the same thing" with "saying the same thing" and you've got the current state of the chart forum.

[Littlebastard]

What's with all the hysteria other artists much younger than Madonna aren't selling any better aside from like 5 artists who r still selling over 1.5million ALBUM SELLS R DEAD. GET OVER IT. Look at Janet and even Mariah this time around? Geez.

[Guest moboy]

Well, radio advertisements started here in Detroit just this week and they announce Hard Candy now in stores. So as little promotion as it is, they are at least reminded people that there is an album out there that you should buy before going to the show.

My cousin who is coming with me, really hasn't listened to the album that I gave her, but I told her the other day she better start listening to it if she wants to enjoy the show.

[fak]

1. Holiday sales are NOT triple normal sales. Holiday sales account for at the most 6 weeks - even with those 6 week how many weeks is it that you see a real big increase in sales. Its not as if COADF was in the top 10 in December 2005.

2. COADF had real competition at no1 - that POP IDOL person who released album same week. Competition is much greater in the Holiday period than any other - too many artitas release albums or promote them.

3. HC should have done bettter - lead single was HUGE as compared to COADF lead single. This should give it a boost but no its just plumetted. COADF yo-yo-ed in the top 25 - in a much busier period with a less successful album.

COADF success is not only due to a brief 2-3 hjigh sales period - it was a classy album with a positive buzz and damn good songs to match it.

I heard COADF b4 buying it. I heard HC and decided not to buy it. Why is is that COADF success lies in the holiday period - it was not as if it was preceded by a mega selling song with storng airplay.

Why do all the HC lovers have to put COADF higher sales to market share and XMAS period? HC has put off Madonna fans - te fact that it plumeted down the charts even though its not a busy period says soemthing.,

There's no point in repeating the same stuff over and over again either, which you keep on doing in the chart forum. That makes you a "loon" as well in my opinion.

Timbaland's album sold the double of HC on the back of three million-seller singles (one of them was the first digital single to reach 3 million I think) that had a different artists singing the chorus on each of them, and of course Timbaland being one the most celebrated producer/pop musician of 2006/2007. I don't see how Madonna is supposed to reach those sales on the back of one hit single and zero promo appearances on tv.

And once again, the 75% of HC is not an album you'd hear on US radio. "Candy Shop", "4 Minutes" & "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" do not equal all the 12 songs on the CD. The sales comparison to COADF is beyond pointless, you can't compare the holiday sales of 2005 to the spring/summer sales of 2008, it has been said way too many times on this forum, not to mention that the singles market got much bigger since then. And didn't Janet's album prove that even if you record US friendly music, that's far from getting a million seller? Discipline is more radio friendly than HC yet it sold 200k less. Those producers on Discipline did score big hits with others as well.

[Guest presley]

i really hate idiots

they mskr mr sick

the ammount of energy they spend to being idiots

[Guest Joey's Hung Up On Madonna]

Madonna's music is bought based on its quality, which this album has little of (in comparison to her biggest albums, anyway). No one's buying records anymore in the US; it's all about digital singles. It's hard for most artists to go platinum these days; just get over it, this record was not the smash in America that it was conspired to be.

[HolidayGuy]

COADF's debut preceded the holiday shopping seasn by 1 week- so its opening wasn't aided by any holiday sales. But there's no denying that its sales- had it not been a new release during the holiday shopping period- likely would have been notably lower. It's not a matter of increase, but also holding up better (i.e. its second week drop was only 40%- a good 25% or more better than had it not been a holiday week).

Of course, this is not to defend HC's performance- it's certainly not a runaway hit. But, as said beofre, the BB 200 is loaded with underperforming albums, in an era of dwindling CD sales.

[Guest Danny86]

1. Holiday sales are NOT triple normal sales. Holiday sales account for at the most 6 weeks - even with those 6 week how many weeks is it that you see a real big increase in sales. Its not as if COADF was in the top 10 in December 2005.

2. COADF had real competition at no1 - that POP IDOL person who released album same week. Competition is much greater in the Holiday period than any other - too many artitas release albums or promote them.

3. HC should have done bettter - lead single was HUGE as compared to COADF lead single. This should give it a boost but no its just plumetted. COADF yo-yo-ed in the top 25 - in a much busier period with a less successful album.

COADF success is not only due to a brief 2-3 hjigh sales period - it was a classy album with a positive buzz and damn good songs to match it.

I heard COADF b4 buying it. I heard HC and decided not to buy it. Why is is that COADF success lies in the holiday period - it was not as if it was preceded by a mega selling song with storng airplay.

Why do all the HC lovers have to put COADF higher sales to market share and XMAS period? HC has put off Madonna fans - te fact that it plumeted down the charts even though its not a busy period says soemthing.,

How many times are you gonna repeat that? The whole chart forum knows you didn't buy the album along with some fans you know, and of course you're generalizing that and saying Madonna "put off her fans".

I find it ironic that you're saying "HC should have done better - the lead single was HUGE" but then you're pointing out that how everyone can listen to the music and then deciding not to buy it. If fans like you, who post on Madonna forums on a daily basis don't buy a Madonna CD after a listen, then why do you expect a "casual" or "non-fan" invest in a Madonna CD? Why are you not taking the fact into consideration that many think CDs are useless today as they are using iPods and such?

Madonna's music is bought based on its quality, which this album has little of (in comparison to her biggest albums, anyway). No one's buying records anymore in the US; it's all about digital singles. It's hard for most artists to go platinum these days; just get over it, this record was not the smash in America that it was conspired to be.

You don't make sense. You say nobody buys records in the US but you say Madonna's music is bought based on its quality. If nobody buys CDs and people get the digital singles (as you said), how could the "quality" argument stand at all? If people didn't think any of it was quality, then she would not have sold 2 million+ digital singles. How can you know people listened to the album and decided not to buy because it was shit, yet they bought "4 Minutes"?

And again, if you say nobody buys records in the US, then why do you think the album was "conspired to be a smash in America", when in fact not many CDs can live up to that expectation? It's beyond tired that fans think HC is either a "contractual obligation" or a "record conceived for the American record buying public". Same for the arguments about a megaseller single meaning a huge seller album. It's not the 90s anymore, albums are outsold by singles!

[Pabl0114]

Madonna's music is bought based on its quality, which this album has little of (in comparison to her biggest albums, anyway). No one's buying records anymore in the US; it's all about digital singles. It's hard for most artists to go platinum these days; just get over it, this record was not the smash in America that it was conspired to be.

Quality is relative. It seems to me that many non fans are loving the album, at least here in Atlanta (actually the only complaints I have heard are from fans on here). The black gay kids love it. I went to a barbeque and they played the whole CD, people were just loving it. My boyfriend (not a madonna fan) loves it. A friend of mine who hasn't been into Madonna since BS is a born again fan. my Candy Shop ringtone went off and this guy at the bank was like I love that song and that whole CD is good! (Im sure not many of them bought it tho just downloaded it) It really just depends on what type of music you enjoy, but to call it low quality just because you don't like it makes no sense. I thought that Confessions was a snooze fest when I first heard it, just one long track it seemed to me. I'm not really into dance music like that, but at the same time I wasn't going to be bashing Confessions because of it (loves it now). At the end of the day maddy's sales in america are over that's just the way the bussiness works. She has realized that, I just wish her fans would too and stop all this nonsense debating.

[Etips]

Quality is relative.

True, but to a self-important snob there is no such thing as relative. “Quality” is based on nothing else but your own opinion.

[Supernatural]

Quality? ROL and LAP did not really do great business for their time, Erotica flopped, LAV and TB sold buttloads.... more like correct marketing, timing, etc.

[Guest presley]

I really really hate stupid ppl

And they are so many...

[HolidayGuy]

This week's No. 120 did 5,138, while Nos. 124 and 125 did 5,058 and 5,047, respectively. No. 140 did 4,762- just to give an idea where HC could end up this week. Because there's only a couple thousand difference between the 120 area and No. 200, an album could drop pretty big in rank, even if the sales drop isn't huge.

[Brisy_Boy]

Is there people out there that didn't bought HARD CANDY and call themselves Madonna fans???

You're pseudo-fans that would love to be Madonna fans but you just can't... get over it... oh by the way... if you need any help I know a good psychiatrist

[Brisy_Boy]

Music Fan Definition: Someone that will buy every CD an artist release even if it's just the artist farts recorded there.

[Brisy_Boy]

From Wikipedia:

A fan, aficionado or supporter is someone who has an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking of a sporting club, person, group of persons, company, product, work of art, idea, or trend. Fans of a particular thing constitute its fanbase or fandom. They may start a fan club, hold fan conventions, create fanzines, write fan mail, or engage in similar activities.

In a few cases, individual fans may become so fascinated with the objects of their infatuation that they become obsessive. These fans engage in behaviors that are considered extreme or abnormal[1]. This includes idolatry or other forms of worship, such as creating a personal shrine dedicated to the idol at one's home, and can sometimes extend to the point of the fans becoming stalkers.

There are certain common characteristics to be found in fans interested in different topics and that these characteristics influence the behaviors of those involved in fan behavior (Thorne&Bruner 2006).

Those common characteristics include (Thorne&Bruner 2006):

Internal involvement. Fans focus more of their time and resources intently on a specific area of interest than a non-fan would, and are not significantly concerned if non-fans (including family or friends) don't derive pleasure from the area of interest. Fans usually have a strong enough interest that some changes in their lifestyles are made to accommodate devotion to the focal object.

Desire for external involvement - are motivated to demonstrate their involvement with the area of interest through certain behaviors (attending conventions, posting online, etc.)

Wish to acquire - fans tend to express a strong desire to possess material objects related to the area of interest.

Desire for social interaction with other fans. This again may take many forms, from casual conversation, e-mail, chat rooms, and electronic mailing lists to regular face-to-face meetings such as fan club meetings and organized conventions.

[Kurt420]

@ Brisy Boy

I'm just curious how the ones who decided not to buy HC determined that they weren't going to buy it. Did they *GASPS* download the songs for FREE and dislike them and delete them?? Go to a store and listen to the entire CD? Or just sample 30 sec itunes snippets??

I don't see how diehard fans not purchase a studio album (or even a compilation for that matter). I guess it's because I'm such a completist though. I remember picking up GHV2 knowing damn good and well I would never listen to it because I already have all the songs. And of course I never do.....but I have to have it!! lol

Personally at this point I would stop buying her albums only if she made 2 or 3 in a row that I just didn't like at all.

[thebigham]

Down 14 spots to #130 on the new Billboard 200.

[promise to try]

Down 14 spots to #130 on the new Billboard 200.

thanks for posting it

[HolidayGuy]

Sales probably around 4,900 (based on surrounding figures), which isn't a bad hold.

[Guest tir69]

Sales probably around 4,900 (based on surrounding figures), which isn't a bad hold.

yep , numbers aren't so bad but she's still top 200 when she touring in US?

4 Minutes still has decently spins and audience from us radio but for how many times ?, Give it to me is already gone , and no one news about a officialy radio release for Beat goes on or Miles away.

I hope she can stay in the range of 4000 copies sold a week for the next 2 months

[HolidayGuy]

Well, here's how things look in terms of the tour hitting the USA:

Week Ending 8/31- Week 18

Week ending 9/7- Week 19

Week Ending 9/14- Week 20

Week Ending 9/21- Week 21

Week Ending 9/28- Week 22

Week Ending 10/5- Week 23 (tour hits USA, first show 10/4)

Week Ending 10/12- Week 24 (first full week of impact from tour hitting USA- and, 4 shows in NYC, the biggest city in the USA)

Week Ending 10/19- Week 25 (2 Boston dates; 1 Canada on 10/18)

Week Ending 10/26- Week 26 (2 in Canada, 1 Chicago on last tracking day of the week)

Week Ending 11/2- Week 27 (1 Chicago, 1 Canada, 2 Oakland)

Week Ending 11/9- Week 28 (1 San Diego, 1 Los Angeles, 1 Las Vegas)

Week Ending 11/16- Week 29 (2 Denver, 1 Houston)

Week Ending 11/23- Week 30 (1 Detroit, 1 Philadelphia, 1 Atlantic City)

Week Ending 11/30- Week 31 (1 Atlanta, 1 Miami; Thanksgiving week)

So, it has 6 more weeks of sales before the first full week of USA-tour impact hits. If for some reason, the album managed to hold on through the USA tour, it very well could be off the chart come Thanksgiving, since that week sales pick up big- and if it's selling in a lower range, it could get knocked off the chart. But, if it managed to hang on the chart for that long, that would be decent.

[thebigham]

^Thanks!

[fak]

Madonna generally makes good music and is quite consistent about it - the only 2 releases where bland songs outnumber the good are Bedtime Stories and Hard Candy - imo.

When i first heard 4 Mins - i listened to it again, again and again - I could nt believe how mediocre it was by her standards. I do listen to it now and then but its not something I actively look for. i got to listen to the album online on youtube - i was very disappointed. i got to hear COADF on BBC Radio 1 who had it as an album of the week and played it over a week - after 2/3 songs I knew I would buy it.

If i dont like something i certainly wont spend my hard earned money on it filling someone elses bank account. Im surprised so many people bought it and still think its crap. Im surprised they have that sort of money to throw around and support crap. But thats their own choice.

We no longer need to go to a store andlisten to the cd thanks to the internet. But I guess each person has their own way. I am not someone who rushes out to but soemthing in the first week. In fact I rarely buy CD's and quite often I get rid of them after a bit.

If that makes me a non-fan it does nt bother me. My life does nt revolve around madonna - she is just my favourite female artist. i dont buuy merchandise, concert tickets etc although i dont mind discussing her and her work online - if we had to pay to join this forum, i would nt bother.

It would have been nicer to have seen HC done better but I guess somehow down the line a number of potential buyers have been put off. 4 mins was a massive hit globally and esp in the USA where she has had such a drought but on the flipside it may have alienated some casual fans.

@ Brisy Boy

I'm just curious how the ones who decided not to buy HC determined that they weren't going to buy it. Did they *GASPS* download the songs for FREE and dislike them and delete them?? Go to a store and listen to the entire CD? Or just sample 30 sec itunes snippets??

I don't see how diehard fans not purchase a studio album (or even a compilation for that matter). I guess it's because I'm such a completist though. I remember picking up GHV2 knowing damn good and well I would never listen to it because I already have all the songs. And of course I never do.....but I have to have it!! lol

Personally at this point I would stop buying her albums only if she made 2 or 3 in a row that I just didn't like at all.

[fak]

There is a decrease in album sales since 2005 and coadf aided slightly by xmas sales but still even then HC is way behind COADF - even though it had a bigger lead single which should have been good promo for HC . I think if HC sold 1 million it would be low but at this stage getting to 700,00 is hard. There is a very likely chance that some casual M fans dont like the new album and wont bother with it. Its possible that even some strong fans may not even have purchased it.

How many times are you gonna repeat that? The whole chart forum knows you didn't buy the album along with some fans you know, and of course you're generalizing that and saying Madonna "put off her fans".

I find it ironic that you're saying "HC should have done better - the lead single was HUGE" but then you're pointing out that how everyone can listen to the music and then deciding not to buy it. If fans like you, who post on Madonna forums on a daily basis don't buy a Madonna CD after a listen, then why do you expect a "casual" or "non-fan" invest in a Madonna CD? Why are you not taking the fact into consideration that many think CDs are useless today as they are using iPods and such?

You don't make sense. You say nobody buys records in the US but you say Madonna's music is bought based on its quality. If nobody buys CDs and people get the digital singles (as you said), how could the "quality" argument stand at all? If people didn't think any of it was quality, then she would not have sold 2 million+ digital singles. How can you know people listened to the album and decided not to buy because it was shit, yet they bought "4 Minutes"?

And again, if you say nobody buys records in the US, then why do you think the album was "conspired to be a smash in America", when in fact not many CDs can live up to that expectation? It's beyond tired that fans think HC is either a "contractual obligation" or a "record conceived for the American record buying public". Same for the arguments about a megaseller single meaning a huge seller album. It's not the 90s anymore, albums are outsold by singles!

[Guest blueferris]

Fak why do u think anybody cares that u didnt buy HC???

U spout the SAME bullshit over & over & over & over again . . .

nobody gives a "fuk" what u think is bland or what u think is mediocre.

ur posts are bland & mediocre.

move on.

[HolidayGuy]

The whole "had a big lead single" thing is beyond tired and pointless. Justin Timberlake/Timbaland involvement equals big singles sales, not album sales.

[dimfanis]

Fak ur posts are bland & mediocre.

move on.

Exactly. This board is for people who are PASSIONATE about Madonna. Fak, it's obvious from your posts you are not one of them.

[Guest missy bi_tch]

look at rihanna obvious singles artist

good girl gone bad hadnt had big sales