FreeMySoul Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 4:06 AM, Suedehead said: 24 hours. Arm soreness & some malaise/fatigue. Β Β Thank you for sharing your experience. Hope all is well now. You will have the second dose next month? Did you have a choice of which vaccine you wanted or you need to take the one offered? I hear Β Moderna is more effective even withΒ new variants of the virus.Β NY/NJ the vaccine roll out has been a bit of a mess. We don't have enough vaccines as previously thought and they closed vaccination sites. I hope Β personal doctorsΒ will be able to administer the vaccine because I really don't want to get my vaccine at the local bodega.Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider of the lost Ark Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Astra Zeneca will regret the day, they tried to cheat out the EU. I suppose it will be more difficult and it will take much longer to get new medication approved by the EU authorities in the future.Β On the other hand, the Astra Zeneca vaccine appears to be less effective anyway. Overall just 70% and today there were reports it is only effective 8% for the age group above 65. Considering this is the high risk group, I'd rather have those people vaccinated with the Biontech or Moderna stuff.Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Well, credit where it's due, the UK is doing great with vaccine rollout. The only thing I'm not sure about is the decision to extend the wait for the 2nd dose to 12 weeks, against the manufacturer recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydita Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, Kim said: Well, credit where it's due, the UK is doing great with vaccine rollout. The only thing I'm not sure about is the decision to extend the wait for the 2nd dose to 12 weeks, against the manufacturer recommendations. Do we know how other countries are reportingΒ vaccinations, are they counting one dose as a vaccination as we currentlyΒ are on Plague Island (Iβve adopted that, thanks, Kim)?Β Honestly, I would trust theseΒ cuntsΒ to count my fingers.Β Oh and the crass βstronger togetherβ mention in todayβs briefing? Rather transparent, wouldnβt you say? Does anyone know when the cyanide pills are due to arrive in the post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, funkydita said: Do we know how other countries are reportingΒ vaccinations, are they counting one dose as a vaccination as we currentlyΒ are on Plague Island (Iβve adopted that, thanks, Kim)?Β Honestly, I would trust theseΒ cuntsΒ to count my fingers.Β Oh and the crass βstronger togetherβ mention in todayβs briefing? Rather transparent, wouldnβt you say? Does anyone know when the cyanide pills are due to arrive in the post? I was gonna ask that very question here but decided to be semi-positive (for once) but yeah I wonder how other countries areΒ doing it? I'm losing sleep over the state of our precious union!Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 The UK is doing really good. Let's remember, though, that they started a month earlier.Β But it's true that the logistics are working much better there. Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 12 hours ago, ULIZOS said: The ironic thing is that one of the commitmentsΒ the EU did make is the following:Β "The European Commission is also committed to ensuring that everyone who needs a vaccine gets it, anywhere in the world and not only at home. No one will be safe until everyone is safe. This is why it has raised almost β¬16 billion since 4 May 2020 under the Coronavirus Global Response, the global action for universal access to tests, treatments and vaccines against coronavirus and for the global recovery and has confirmed its interest to participate in the COVAX Facility for equitable access to affordable COVID-19 vaccines everywhere."Β But if a country here or there gets it before the almighty EU...Β I get what you mean but it's not exactly like that.Β Vaccine production is limited. There's so much you can produce every day. That means that those who couldΒ give the money up front could reserve the vaccine dosis. That's market law. Unfair for those who can't. That happens every day in our lives: rich people always have it better. Unfair but this is how it works for all (as we saw last march and April when rich countries brought all masks and sanitisers). I wish we had a more fair system. The EU though knows that this will only be effective if all in the worldΒ are vaccinated. That's not only getting the dose but having the infrastructure. That means (I recall) 500 millionΒ euro has been destined to help other countries to build that infrastructure. That's something positive (selfish because it's done to protect the EU too).Β Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 In the case of Astrazeneca, the 300 million vaccine doses were payed upfront in autumn. That was 350 million euro. And the pharma is breaching contract now. The EU has been clear this is of utmost importance for the citizens so they will take all the measures. As most production is made in Belgium, they plan controlling the borders so those doses cannot be exported.Β There's already a shortage of vaccines in the EU (after Pfizer reduced production). In Strasbourg, for example, they had to close the vaccination centre. Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apples388 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 12 hours ago, Kim said: Well, credit where it's due, the UK is doing great with vaccine rollout. Β And that is largely thanks to the NHS to be honest. Not so much the current government. And yet I'm sure this government will use it as a victory for themselves and all will be forgotten including 'clap for carers!!1!!!!!' in the inevitable next round of NHS cuts! Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apples388 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 13 hours ago, FreeMySoul said: Thank you for sharing your experience. Hope all is well now. You will have the second dose next month? Did you have a choice of which vaccine you wanted or you need to take the one offered? I hear Β Moderna is more effective even withΒ new variants of the virus.Β Β I had the Pfizer vaccine.Β You don't get a choice in the UK of which vaccine you want. At the moment only Pfizer and AstraZenica are being rolled out. As far as I am aware, all the vaccines are effective against the variants we are aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydita Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Suedehead said: And that is largely thanks to the NHS to be honest. Not so much the current government. And yet I'm sure this government will use it as a victory for themselves and all will be forgotten including 'clap for carers!!1!!!!!' in the inevitable next round of NHS cuts! Β And theyβll blame the NHS forΒ βNHS Track and Traceβ as they insist onΒ calling it,Β which it obviously isnβt.Β Itβs all just so blatant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apples388 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 20 minutes ago, funkydita said: And theyβll blame the NHS forΒ βNHS Track and Traceβ as they insist onΒ calling it,Β which it obviously isnβt.Β Itβs all just so blatant. Yep it's not NHS Track and Trace at all. It's operated through Serco! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 The British press spilling venom and propaganda, as they have done for decades Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 Ok can we give Nicola Sturgeon the Queen of Life title @KimΒ ?Β Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, karbatal said: Ok can we give Nicola Sturgeon the Queen of Life title @KimΒ ?Β Β Well Queen Nic is absolutely right, but it's less to do with the EU and more to do with Tory scum playing politics as usual. Tories claim rollout is slow, NS publishes figures.Β Tories complain figures have been published, NS withdraws figures.Β Tories claim rollout is slow, NS says fuck this I'm republishing the figures. Tories claim this threatens supply, NS says tough shit. Β Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Kim said: Well Queen Nic is absolutely right, but it's less to do with the EU and more to do with Tory scum playing politics as usual. Tories claim rollout is slow, NS publishes figures.Β Tories complain figures have been published, NS withdraws figures.Β Tories claim rollout is slow, NS says fuck this I'm republishing the figures. Tories claim this threatens supply, NS says tough shit. Β Β Oh I thought this was to do with the rumours of the UK buying secretly the EU vaccines and Nicola publishing the details of the new amounts that will arrive!Β Of course even though it's a strong rumour in Brussels, I prefer not to think badly of any government and wait until there's an official declaration.Β At first I thought Biden had bought the EU vaccines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, karbatal said: Oh I thought this was to do with the rumours of the UK buying secretly the EU vaccines and Nicola publishing the details of the new amounts that will arrive!Β Of course even though it's a strong rumour in Brussels, I prefer not to think badly of any government and wait until there's an official declaration.Β At first I thought Biden had bought the EU vaccines Oh I don't know, I'm a bit confused by the whole thing tbh. I don't think we're getting the full story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kim said: Oh I don't know, I'm a bit confused by the whole thing tbh. I don't think we're getting the full story. Yeah me too. There's enough misinformation already.Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydita Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Based on only a cursory readingΒ of whatβs going on, this feels terribly handled by the EU and unfortunately gives BrexiteersΒ ammunition barely a few weeks into the exit. SIGH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 21 minutes ago, funkydita said: Based on only a cursory readingΒ of whatβs going on, this feels terribly handled by the EU and unfortunately gives BrexiteersΒ ammunition barely a few weeks into the exit. SIGH. According to British press.Β The discourse is totally different in the EU. I hope this mess solves soon.Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydita Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 28 minutes ago, karbatal said: According to British press.Β The discourse is totally different in the EU. I hope this mess solves soon.Β I havenβt read enough to have a sufficientΒ understanding to take an informed position...but, at aΒ really basic level,Β I donβt quite understand how the EU signed aΒ contract three months after the UK or how they approved the vaccine a month later than the UK. Β ShareΒ links to any useful articles, I feel I can only properly understand this by reading the contracts...I barely read my tenancy agreement so canβt see myselfΒ reading these contracts this weekend - orΒ understanding the legal implicationΒ ofΒ the βbest reasonable effortsβ clause (which seems to be the issue?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacho Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Β Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 9 hours ago, funkydita said: I havenβt read enough to have a sufficientΒ understanding to take an informed position...but, at aΒ really basic level,Β I donβt quite understand how the EU signed aΒ contract three months after the UK or how they approved the vaccine a month later than the UK. Β ShareΒ links to any useful articles, I feel I can only properly understand this by reading the contracts...I barely read my tenancy agreement so canβt see myselfΒ reading these contracts this weekend - orΒ understanding the legal implicationΒ ofΒ the βbest reasonable effortsβ clause (which seems to be the issue?). It's complicated to understand because there is a lot of (imo intended) disinformation in British press.Β 1. The EU paid 300 million euro in AUGUST 2020 to secure the vaccine.Β https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-vaccine-price/eu-pays-336-mln-euros-to-secure-astrazenecas-potential-covid-19-vaccine-idUSKBN25N25X?rpc=401& 2. The EU in June 2020 approved a strategy to fund vaccine research to secure the doses once they were available. This strategy included low prices to poor countries. AstraZeneca benefited of this big time. Part of the money went to fund the 2 manufacturingΒ plants in Belgium AND the UK. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1438 3. The European Medicine Agency is one of the most strict in the world to ensure the safety of EU citizens and only approves once all information is available. With the vaccines the protocols are being exceptionally fast, to the point that the EMA said that further tests should be made, for example, to know the real effectiveness of the vaccine with new strains.Β 4. This situation has nothing to do with who approved the vaccine first. It's to do with AstraZeneca saying they will supply only 30% of the dosis in the first quarter because the EU plants are less efficient than the.UK ones. According themΒ That's because the biological tanks in the EU are not developing the vaccine so efficiently as the British ones. There's a link to this interview in English published by El PaΓs. In my Google only comes the Spanish version. Search for Soirot AstraZeneca El PaΓs and you will find it.Β 5. Strong rumours in Brussels say that the real reason, though, is that a third country has bought at a higher price the EU doses. To ensure that this is not happening, the EU will control all exportation of the vaccine to know exactly where they are going. That includes (it's not official yet, but the British media have spread havoc reporting as a fact) the Irish border.Β 6. The EU, to try to bring light into this complicated issue, decided yesterday to publish the contract. But AstraZeneca forbid to publish certain parts claiming it would breach confidential data. That means that lots of parts are not being shown. I read in Twitter lots of prominent BritishΒ accounts claiming that the EU is an obscure bourocrat mess and those hidden parts is the proof. Truth is that AstraZeneca didn't allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 One positive thing for the EU after this nightmarish year is that we will finally try to be self sufficient in health emergencies. Ursula von der Leyen announced two days ago the creation of a new agency to coordinate all EU members so supplies are made in the EU and available to EU citizens. Let's not forget that at the beginning of the pandemic we discovered that almost all supplies were made in China and for months health workers had to work in trash bin bags and self made masks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydita Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, karbatal said: It's complicated to understand because there is a lot of (imo intended) disinformation in British press.Β 1. The EU paid 300 million euro in AUGUST 2020 to secure the vaccine.Β https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-vaccine-price/eu-pays-336-mln-euros-to-secure-astrazenecas-potential-covid-19-vaccine-idUSKBN25N25X?rpc=401& 2. The EU in June 2020 approved a strategy to fund vaccine research to secure the doses once they were available. This strategy included low prices to poor countries. AstraZeneca benefited of this big time. Part of the money went to fund the 2 manufacturingΒ plants in Belgium AND the UK. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1438 3. The European Medicine Agency is one of the most strict in the world to ensure the safety of EU citizens and only approves once all information is available. With the vaccines the protocols are being exceptionally fast, to the point that the EMA said that further tests should be made, for example, to know the real effectiveness of the vaccine with new strains.Β 4. This situation has nothing to do with who approved the vaccine first. It's to do with AstraZeneca saying they will supply only 30% of the dosis in the first quarter because the EU plants are less efficient than the.UK ones. According themΒ That's because the biological tanks in the EU are not developing the vaccine so efficiently.Β There's a link to this interview in English published by El PaΓs. In my Google only comes the Spanish version. Search for Soirot AstraZeneca El PaΓs and you will find it.Β 5. Strong rumours in Brussels say that the real reason, though, is that a third country has bought at a higher price the EU doses. To ensure that this is not happening, the EU will control all exportation of the vaccine to know exactly where they are going. That includes (it's not official yet, but the British media have spread havoc reporting as a fact) the Irish border.Β 6. The EU, to try to bring light into this complicated issue, decided to publish the contract. But AstraZeneca forbid to publish certain parts claiming it would breach confidential data. That means that lots of parts are not being shown. I read in Twitter lots of prominent accounts claiming that the EU is an obscure bourocrat mess and those hidden parts is the proof. Truth is that AstraZeneca didn't allow. I am surprised that UK press and people in social media are shocked. Hundreds of thousands of people have died of the pandemic and the vaccine saves lifes. Of course the EU will invoke all measurements to grant the doses. And Brussels won't give a damn what a citizen in the UK thinks. Our decisions are done to secure the health of 450 million people, not to show if Brexit was a good or bad idea. If UK people are now united against the EU, it's up to them. We have more urgent things to solve. Thanks for the links and for taking the time to reply in such detail. Β Ugh, Iβve just spentΒ overΒ two hours trying to get to my head around this but tbh Iβm still none the wiser . Β It seems all of this hinges onΒ the definition ofΒ βbest reasonable effortsβ in interpreting clauseΒ 5.1? Β The contract is under the jurisdiction of Belgian law, can someone get usΒ on a conference call with a Belgian judge? Β Iβm free today after 2pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, funkydita said: Thanks for the links and for taking the time to reply in such detail. Β Ugh, Iβve just spentΒ overΒ two hours trying to get to my head around this but tbh Iβm still none the wiser . Β It seems all of this hinges onΒ the definition ofΒ βbest reasonable effortsβ in interpreting clauseΒ 5.1? Β The contract is under the jurisdiction of Belgian law, can someone get usΒ on a conference call with a Belgian judge? Β Iβm free today after 2pm. Β We do a better research simply using Google than most journos with important positions.Β The issue is coming complicated, in my opinion, because this is a big pharma with their usually abusive and obscure contracts.Β And of course we citizens will argue between us, blaming Brussels or London instead of demanding changes in law to stop the abuse and greed from pharmaceutical companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydita Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 57 minutes ago, karbatal said: Β We do a better research simply using Google than most journos with important positions.Β The issue is coming complicated, in my opinion, because this is a big pharma with their usually abusive and obscure contracts.Β And of course we citizens will argue between us, blaming Brussels or London instead of demanding changes in law to stop the abuse and greed from pharmaceutical companies. This is why we need a Belgian judge. Β Googling and social media commentary is a total headfuck because you need to ascertainΒ the political affiliations, funding, positions on Brexit, opinions on the EU etc. of the sourcesΒ and the platforms on which theyβre published. And yes, big pharma is definitely evil...but isnβt AstraZeneca making the vaccine available on a not-for-profit basis duringΒ the pandemic (or,Β as I just read, up until July 2021 or until they deem the pandemic over based on a number of factors,Β and in perpetuity for lower income countries)? I need to watch some trashy TV to clear my head. Β Did anyoneΒ find that Belgian judge yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydita Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 5 hours ago, Junior said: Β OJ Simpson has almost a million followers on Twitter?! Β At least he said βget your shotβ rather than βget your jabβ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, funkydita said: This is why we need a Belgian judge. Β Googling and social media commentary is a total headfuck because you need to ascertainΒ the political affiliations, funding, positions on Brexit, opinions on the EU etc. of the sourcesΒ and the platforms on which theyβre published. And yes, big pharma is definitely evil...but isnβt AstraZeneca making the vaccine available on a not-for-profit basis duringΒ the pandemic (or,Β as I just read, up until July 2021 or until they deem the pandemic over based on a number of factors,Β and in perpetuity for lower income countries)? I need to watch some trashy TV to clear my head. Β Did anyoneΒ find that Belgian judge yet? That's the perverse narrative. AstraZeneca is making the vaccine available non profit BECAUSE OF the EU conditions. And yet some media is painting the pharma as some kind of non profit firm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydita Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 26 minutes ago, karbatal said: That's the perverse narrative. AstraZeneca is making the vaccine available non profit BECAUSE OF the EU conditions. And yet some media is painting the pharma as some kind of non profit firm Iβm not quite sure thatβs the case though, the vaccine is being offered worldwide on a not-for-profit basis and that was before the EU deal? Wasnβt it one of the conditions set by Oxford when looking for a partner that ended up being AstraZeneca? Again itβs all so confusing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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