Why did the world become so ageist?

[mtzlplk]

Has this always been the case in your neighborhood or country? Back in the 70s and 80s, growing up, as far as i can remember, talking about the entertainment industry, I have never been ageist... even in the early 80s, i love the 50s and 60s artists and their sound... I never dismissed them as old... the people around me back then never dismissed artists for being in their 40s and 50s, they are actually respected... Entertainment industry wasn't that youth-oriented back then... Has this also been your observation in your country?

[george28]

I think it has only just been this way the last couple of years. I remember in the late 90's it wasn't like that or at least not as bad as it is now. I remember Cher making a come back with "Believe" and "Stronger" and yes there were snide remarks being made of course, but the songs were still making great justice for her, playing all over the radio and on music video channels and I'm sure the clubs as well. It really does piss me off as everybody that such a great album like Rebel Heart didn't have the success it deserves but unfortunately this is a topic that has been discussed to death and in the end it is what it is I guess

[erotica blu]

Patriarchy is why there is visible ageism in the media.

[Guest eroticerotic]

I'm pretty sure it's always been that way,

i think social media distorts and also nowadays markets are more teen and tween driven; kids telling their parents what to do etc..and when you are young, you are not as realistic,

on the other hand i feel people feel more comfortable NOT retiring after a certain age, and are looking more and more youthful and healthy, more active, and getting work, so, it is a topic.

but really iit seems to be the same shat different toilet scenario

[mtzlplk]

hmmm... but the thing is, our generation, say the 70s and 80s kids, when we were young back then, we don't discriminate against old acts right? or at least i do... the kids of today, as i see in social media are so ageist, it's scary. i guess how parents raise their kids nowadays factor in too... especially those parents that are so relaxed in exposing their kids to social media...

[Guest eroticerotic]

i think their online behavior speaks more about the rising illiteracy rate and how neglected they are than it does agism; good for totalitarianism haha, psychologists lol (pills pills pills), and fast cash businesses, not good for democracies or people who bust their butts if more and more generations stop critically thinking for themselves anymore.

i am an 80s child too! :high5: ; i think maybe the pre internet 90's children are the last batch to have any respect for older people.

but really once you get past the noise, there are way more opportunities for older people now than in the past.

[Guest bluejean]

It has always been this way in the entertainment industry and its actually very simple.

Kids want idols, people they can relate to and look up to. Teens don't look up to people as old or older than their parents. And most don't care for singers their parents listen to. Also the industry is largely about sex symbols and youthfullness is and has always been more appealing particularly where women are concerned.

And yes I think the Internet exposes us to higher degrees of prejudice in general. People can be as vocal as they want and get away with it.

A lot of these kids that love Gaga, Katy Perry will get into their 20's and start listening to Madonna. They'll be a resurge in her popularity as a legacy act at some point.

[karbatal]

It's been always like that. the difference is that back then there was no old female singer being sexy. The only female above 40 were Tina and Cher. They called Tina grandma and Cher was a recurrent joke

[Larkspur]

Marketing. It's an illusion that most things today are driven by anything but money. I can go on a tirade about some people's obsession with money but the thread is about ageism.

I will say money, Hollywood, baby boomer generation, fear, lost of any respect for wisdom....closed mindedness, mostly fear I think.

[gemini1313]

Ask that question to the gays on Grindr.

If you are over 30 y/o you're considered an old man.

[Guest bluejean]

Ask that question to the gays on Grindr.

If you are over 30 y/o you're considered an old man.

Exactly.

The sad part is its around that age that people become actually interesting.

[Guest bluejean]

There was a time where people didn't even live past 30

[HarleyQuinn]

Every newer generation thinks that it is better than the last and for what it is worth and in some cases it can be, i.e. better technology and medicine. Now, how they have varied effects is a whole different convo. That being said, I would say the ageism is largely driven by vocal tweens and, as I have come to believe lately, young gays who hate anyone over the age of 35. The delicious irony is that the same ones who crow about how old someone is will look ridiculous. I choose not to obsess over it because someone or something will shove a slice of humble pie down their throats.

I will say that it is exhausting and a waste of time trying to argue with these kids. They think they know everything and twist words because their minds are going a million miles per hour. Throw in hormones and well, it is best to walk away.

[HarleyQuinn]

i am an 80s child too! :high5: ; i think maybe the pre internet 90's children are the last batch to have any respect for older people.

We did talk smack about the grownups but we knew not to fuck around with them. If they were serious, we knew we messed up.

[Rebel]

The rise of social media leading to every ignorant asshole suddenly having an outlet to voice their thoughts that automatically gets attention.

[Jazzy Jan]

Ageism against women has always been around. I can only speak of my own country but for years on end, women presenters and news readers were put out to pasture after say 35 while men were still going strong at 60+ Quiz shows had middle aged men presenting and beautiful young women as the accessory. Watch Sky news and all the men are distinguished and mainly middle aged while the women are all young and beautiful. When you watch soaps and tv shows, women are always getting called old cows and being made to feel inferior to younger women.

I actually think it has got better with more awareness - now a lot more older women presenting and reporting - but unfortunately social media has no filter and all of the ageist revolting comments are out there a lot more to see. Madonna has always been a target for people due to her success and huge public interest - and they now are using age against her. Years ago, she was just ridiculed by the same haters as a slut who would not last etc. Anyway, Madonna has bucked the trend and always will. Nothing will keep her down.

[scottyenzed]

Ageism against women has always been around. I can only speak of my own country but for years on end, women presenters and news readers were put out to pasture after say 35 while men were still going strong at 60+ Quiz shows had middle aged men presenting and beautiful young women as the accessory. Watch Sky news and all the men are distinguished and mainly middle aged while the women are all young and beautiful. When you watch soaps and tv shows, women are always getting called old cows and being made to feel inferior to younger women.

I actually think it has got better with more awareness - now a lot more older women presenting and reporting - but unfortunately social media has no filter and all of the ageist revolting comments are out there a lot more to see. Madonna has always been a target for people due to her success and huge public interest - and they now are using age against her. Years ago, she was just ridiculed by the same haters as a slut who would not last etc. Anyway, Madonna has bucked the trend and always will. Nothing will keep her down.

Exactly! She has always been a target and age is just one in a long line of things people use to bring her down.

[hasta]

Its more obvious for pop acts.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

Why did the world become so ageist?

because youth stopped respecting their elders.

[slam3000]

Why did the world become so ageist?

because youth stopped respecting their elders.

Exactly.

At the height of Blondie's fame, Debbie Harry was in her late 30s and from what I recall no one thought that much of it. Obviously, she was gorgeous which helps a lot, but it's hard to imagine a pop singer now, especially a woman, hitting the mainstream and becoming a huge success as they reach touching distance of 40.

But it's interesting, though as people now tend to stay younger, longer. It's perfectly normal to still have some interest in pop culture in your late 30s and 40s, in a way that the previous generation often didn't, so it would actually make commercial sense to market older artists to that age bracket.

I read an article the other day about how Radio 1's figures for the breakfast show have slumped to their lowest ever and a fair few of the comments were from older people who want to listen to it but feel they've been actively excluded by the station's increasingly aggressive pursuit of the 'youth' audience. The controller of Radio 1 commented '"I'm pleased that Grimmy is doing what I've asked of him by keeping his young audience happy and scaring off the over-30s." . And that just sums up the idiocy of this youth obsession where low audience figures of the 'right' age group are seen as preferable to a more successful show with a much broader appeal.

[XXL]

I'm pretty sure it's always been that way,

i think social media distorts and also nowadays markets are more teen and tween driven; kids telling their parents what to do etc..and when you are young, you are not as realistic,

on the other hand i feel people feel more comfortable NOT retiring after a certain age, and are looking more and more youthful and healthy, more active, and getting work, so, it is a topic.

but really iit seems to be the same shat different toilet scenario

It has always been this way in the entertainment industry and its actually very simple.

Kids want idols, people they can relate to and look up to. Teens don't look up to people as old or older than their parents. And most don't care for singers their parents listen to. Also the industry is largely about sex symbols and youthfullness is and has always been more appealing particularly where women are concerned.

And yes I think the Internet exposes us to higher degrees of prejudice in general. People can be as vocal as they want and get away with it.

A lot of these kids that love Gaga, Katy Perry will get into their 20's and start listening to Madonna. They'll be a resurge in her popularity as a legacy act at some point.

Ageism against women has always been around. I can only speak of my own country but for years on end, women presenters and news readers were put out to pasture after say 35 while men were still going strong at 60+ Quiz shows had middle aged men presenting and beautiful young women as the accessory. Watch Sky news and all the men are distinguished and mainly middle aged while the women are all young and beautiful. When you watch soaps and tv shows, women are always getting called old cows and being made to feel inferior to younger women.

I actually think it has got better with more awareness - now a lot more older women presenting and reporting - but unfortunately social media has no filter and all of the ageist revolting comments are out there a lot more to see. Madonna has always been a target for people due to her success and huge public interest - and they now are using age against her. Years ago, she was just ridiculed by the same haters as a slut who would not last etc. Anyway, Madonna has bucked the trend and always will. Nothing will keep her down.

Signed

[XXL]

Madonna, misogyny and the menopause

RECENTLY on stage at Coachella, during the performance of a track titled ‘Bitch I’m Madonna’, there was an Ageist Kissing Incident. The pop queen of the same name (age 56, album sales 300 million) gave Canadian rapper Drake (age 28, album sales five million) an unscripted kiss — not a peck on the cheek, but an actual snog.

The rapper’s reaction was viscerally ungracious; it was as though he had been licked by ebola, his face curling in disgust as he wiped his hand across his mouth. Afterwards, having realised his epic faux pas, he backtracked on Twitter: “Don’t misinterpret my shock!! I got to make out with the queen Madonna and I feel 100 about that forever.” (100? What? Years old?)

But it was not so much the initial cloddish, uncouth reaction of the rapper as the wider response afterwards which howled of ageism and misogyny. Screams of ‘ugh’ echoed around the internet. An older woman had kissed a younger man — not like Mrs Robinson, or anything Oedipal, but just straightforward, age-irrelevant sexual intent — at least, for on-stage purposes anyway.

Piers Morgan waded straight in: “So Drake proves that kissing Madonna is about as ghastly as I always thought it would be.” (To which another tweeter crisply replied, “Stop crying. Nobody wants to kiss you.”)

Madonna was unimpressed, swiftly telling one fan, “Don’t kiss Drake. No matter how many times he begs you to”. Marilyn Manson added some ghoulish gallantry in i-D magazine by suggesting that Madonna “looks hotter than ever. I’d also like to let it be known that I still have a crush on Madonna and I would definitely fornicate with her.” Madonna’s response? “Um, thanks.”

This might all sound like a snog in a teacup, were it not representative of wider social attitudes. Madonna is a menopausal woman (or at least we presume she is, as she is biologically the right age), and menopausal women are cultural castrati.

Display overt sexuality at your peril, ladies, and prepare to be tarred and feathered both online and off, with calls of put it away, Grandma go home, stop embarrassing your children, act your age, that’s disgusting, ewwww.

Here’s the thing. We allow a certain kind of middle aged female sexuality. Discreet, implied, covered up — but even by our forties our sexual selves become labelled as ‘cougar’, with all the predatory baggage that word entails.

This does not happen to men. So when Madonna, at a calendar age regarded as clinically dead when it comes to raunch, prances her sexuality the same as she has always done, she incurs that special kind of wrath reserved for women who refuse to yield to what is expected of them.

Interestingly, it’s not just the Piers Morgans or the twitchfork mobs shouting at Madonna to put it away. Some of her most vociferous critics have been feminists. When she got her nipples out — yes, aged 56 — for Interview magazine, Camille Paglia wrote in The Times how Madonna was “putting herself on the front line of an increasingly toxic war between young and middle-aged women. It is a fight she cannot win and she should learn to age well.”

Paglia continued that older women using Photoshop were a disservice to feminism: “The ultimate issue here is the media-fuelled nuclear arms race being waged between middle-aged women and the young women whose dewy nubility they vampirically covet. This is a war that ageing women can never win: cruel time conquers all.”

Or as an online commentator at Billboard magazine said of Madonna’s Interview shoot: “Those who find these ridiculous photos ‘hot’ are necrophiliac.”

Necrophiliac? Yikes. Madonna, as her job requires, looks better than most 36-year-olds, never mind 56-year-olds. Hers is not a typical 56-year-old face and body, thanks to mountains of work, internal and otherwise.

Yet Paglia urges her to follow convention, to “learn to age well”. That she is ‘competing’ with younger women over the prize of youth. What old-school nonsense. Why should you ever retire your sexuality because a calendar says so? Has anyone told similarly aged George Clooney, Lenny Kravitz, Brad Pitt, Antonio Banderas and all the other men we regard as sexy without making vomiting noises because they are over 50?

Or as Madonna herself asked Jonathan Ross in 1992, when she was 34, “Is there a rule? Are people just supposed to die when they’re 40?”, crossly adding, “That’s just stupid.”

Obviously, no matter how hot someone is, age and generation has some influence. Madonna is not on my teenage daughter’s pop radar. BBC Radio 1,which appeals to a pop audience aged 15-30, caused a fuss in February when it refused to play tracks from her new album, based on her age and “relevance” to that age group (she’s not alone — they don’t play Kylie or Robbie Williams either). Her fans are older, and have grown up with her since her 1982 debut.

But this is not about pop, it’s about female sexuality and its built-in obsolescence. We have long decided that once a woman is no longer biologically fertile, she is no longer sexually desirable.

Check out how Hollywood casts female actors the same age as male actors to play their mothers. Older woman sexuality is almost regarded as a perversion (see the “necrophiliac” comment above). And Madonna, putting her best nipples forward, is challenging this clapped-out perception as only she can.

As someone who has long confronted dominant perceptions head on, initially helping to change our view of ‘feminist’ from bra-burner to bra-flaunter, she has always been subversive, operating from inside the corporate poptocracy.

She didn’t just prance about singing pop tunes — she has always been vocal about equality for women and gay men, her greatest fanbase. And now that she is older, she shows no signs of toning herself down until she is ready, rather than acquiescing to society’s wishes.

Could this pushing against the conservative boundaries of supposed end-stage, public, female sexuality (fellow performers Cher and Tina Turner never quite thrust like Madonna), make her a pioneer of the as-yet unknown cultural phenomenon, the hot menopausal minx?

We are all living far longer these days — do women really have to spend the second half of their lives pretending they are not still hot to trot?

“Of course women in their 50s are still sexual, but their sexualities, one would hope, have advanced beyond that professed by 20-year-olds,” writes Meghan Murphy in her Feminist Current blog. “And I wish, in her efforts to (supposedly) push boundaries, that Madonna would push past the conventional, inauthentic, superficial performance of sexuality presented by objectified 20-year-old girls. She knows better, I’m sure.”

Again, the should-know-better argument. We remain conditioned to categorise and pigeonhole anything connected with women, age and sexuality.

“Women are still the most marginalised group,” Madonna told Out magazine. “They’re still the group that people won’t let change.”

Perhaps her most authentic menopausal admission was during a recent interview — again with Jonathan Ross — when she spoke about her feelings of loss when her own teenage daughter moved out. A deeper loss than anything romantic, she said.

She may be world’s most successful female pop star, a cultural phenomenon, who, three decades into her career continues to challenge our ideas of female sexuality (her music is secondary, frankly), but she still acknowledges the ordinary everyday loss of children growing up and leaving.

Of all the incarnations of Madonna, perhaps Menopausal Madonna will help smash the last barriers for women — sex, ageing, and our real place in the world.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/madonna-misogyny-and-the-menopause-332252.html

[Shine]

Interestingly, it’s not just the Piers Morgans or the twitchfork mobs shouting at Madonna to put it away. Some of her most vociferous critics have been feminists. When she got her nipples out — yes, aged 56 — for Interview magazine, Camille Paglia wrote in The Times how Madonna was “putting herself on the front line of an increasingly toxic war between young and middle-aged women. It is a fight she cannot win and she should learn to age well.”

Paglia continued that older women using Photoshop were a disservice to feminism: “The ultimate issue here is the media-fuelled nuclear arms race being waged between middle-aged women and the young women whose dewy nubility they vampirically covet. This is a war that ageing women can never win: cruel time conquers all.”

Trademark feminism at its best.

[XXL]

^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS-ShY_MPqo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgP9JVamtE

[XXL]

This one gets it

[TrueBlue]

This one gets it

She does. How annoying they keep interrupting her though!

Btw love your Holy Water video signature.