Young people rate Beatles, Elvis Presley, Stones higher than M in survey

[ryan]

What were they surveyed on??

[s@ndz]

Unfortunately there are so many factors going against Madonna that the other acts don't have (or don't have to a great degree compared to hers). After ALL THIS TIME and so late into her career, Madonna is still facing barriers and still has to fight against the grain.

AGE.

Yes, WE know that on MORE THAN ANY OTHER ACT, Madonna's age is being used against her by almost everyone, esp. the young. Seeing someone of her age and "act like" Rihanna or Gaga doesn't sit well with them: She's trying too hard, bordering on the gross. McCartney, the Stones, even MJ has or had it better.

POP MUSIC.

Pop music-- esp. dance-- is shunned by "connoisseurs" of music (though most of them are actually just pretentious sheep)and even casual listeners believe this shit. Pop=throwaway. Concentrate on pop, and you are NOT a music legend/artist. This despite the fact that, say, hip hop has some of the crappiest music around. Of course, M's latest music have not been legendary in terms of quality, either, sad to say... (she's held up to higher standards, and so her low quality work may be high quality if done by others)

OUT OF SIGHT, LEGEND.

Visibility keeps an artist going on a continuing career, but it's absence (visual/physical, at least) that provides mystery and an air of un-attainability/unreachability that firms up one's "legend" in the minds of the people. They hear Elvis' music, but he's not around anymore, or they hear Aretha's, but she's not a media whore, and so people tend to look up to them more. M has always been around. Familiarity indeed breeds contempt. Also, untimely DEATH is one of the greatest legend-makers..

MEDIA WHORE

I agree that M's media-baiting esp. in the earlier periods of her career hampered perceptions for her musical achievements

POLARIZERS ARE FROZEN

Notice that people who go really up the rankings in these kinds of surveys are rarely polarizing figures, if at all. Of course, they needed and had periods of controversies in their careers to make them interesting, but on the whole, they are either well-loved or, at least, not hated. Madonna has got to be one of the most hated music figures of ALL TIME. I believe that she has more haters than lovers (or, at least those who love her are more silent). Streisand is another such figure and so she NEVER gets to top such polls or even get herself included in the first place.. People hate M for various reasons, but I think most do for she IS someone they can never (and long to) be..

MUSCLES AND VEINS

LOL. Yeah, she's a freak to many, but unlike the "lovable" and heartrendingly tragic MJ, Madonna is a BITCH who couldn't care less what others think.

and last but not least..

MISOGYNY

No matter what others say, no matter how well trod this topic is, misogyny still runs rampant in culture today. People wouldn't be so ageist against her if she were a man. True, "girl power" is in vogue today, but it seems only as far as sloganeering goes. But if a woman acts like a man and supplants for herself the male roles in REAL terms (like M does) and not just talk about it, then people turn on her..

Obviously these things may not consciously play in the minds of many of the respondents but I'm sure they play a role..

Nevertheless, except for the Beatles and perhaps Elvis (though arguable), Madonna is the GREATEST of all these artists in terms of real achievements..

[Zezwer]

one word:

sexism

funny is that sexism and ageism usually compliments eachother..

it's not "cool" to like an "old pop lady who tries to stay young"

but it's cool to like these overrated old rock men who were druggies most of their career and that were never as good in the first place anyways...

it's typical and tired...

next.

[reQuiem4adream]

well, they will never know what they're missing in life. too bad!!

[neutrocks]

one word:

sexism

funny is that sexism and ageism usually compliments eachother..

it's not "cool" to like an "old pop lady who tries to stay young"

but it's cool to like these overrated old rock men who were druggies most of their career and that were never as good in the first place anyways...

it's typical and tired...

next.

I don't believe this is entirely true regarding "sexism". I mean really? How many over forty men do you hear on top 40 radio? It's rare. Just like it's rare to see women over forty on top 40 radio. Certainly, I agree men in rock/entertainment seem to get a way with a lot more without criticism unlike women, but I don't believe this is really about sexism. Besides there are a lot of women entertainers who get great exposure on pop radio. Unfortunately, they are under 40.

[erotica blu]

I’m ok. Madonna is a woman of a certain age. Children – that’s what I call anyone younger than 25 will never know what we know because we were there.

[Zezwer]

I don't believe this is entirely true regarding "sexism". I mean really? How many over forty men do you hear on top 40 radio? It's rare. Just like it's rare to see women over forty on top 40 radio. Certainly, I agree men in rock/entertainment seem to get a way with a lot more without criticism unlike women, but I don't believe this is really about sexism. Besides there are a lot of women entertainers who get great exposure on pop radio. Unfortunately, they are under 40.

Didn't really necessary mean just radio... this survey wasn't about radio right?

[Guest Damaris]

Unfortunately there are so many factors going against Madonna that the other acts don't have (or don't have to a great degree compared to hers). After ALL THIS TIME and so late into her career, Madonna is still facing barriers and still has to fight against the grain.

AGE.

Yes, WE know that on MORE THAN ANY OTHER ACT, Madonna's age is being used against her by almost everyone, esp. the young. Seeing someone of her age and "act like" Rihanna or Gaga doesn't sit well with them: She's trying too hard, bordering on the gross. McCartney, the Stones, even MJ has or had it better.

POP MUSIC.

Pop music-- esp. dance-- is shunned by "connoisseurs" of music (though most of them are actually just pretentious sheep)and even casual listeners believe this shit. Pop=throwaway. Concentrate on pop, and you are NOT a music legend/artist. This despite the fact that, say, hip hop has some of the crappiest music around. Of course, M's latest music have not been legendary in terms of quality, either, sad to say... (she's held up to higher standards, and so her low quality work may be high quality if done by others)

OUT OF SIGHT, LEGEND.

Visibility keeps an artist going on a continuing career, but it's absence (visual/physical, at least) that provides mystery and an air of un-attainability/unreachability that firms up one's "legend" in the minds of the people. They hear Elvis' music, but he's not around anymore, or they hear Aretha's, but she's not a media whore, and so people tend to look up to them more. M has always been around. Familiarity indeed breeds contempt. Also, untimely DEATH is one of the greatest legend-makers..

MEDIA WHORE

I agree that M's media-baiting esp. in the earlier periods of her career hampered perceptions for her musical achievements

POLARIZERS ARE FROZEN

Notice that people who go really up the rankings in these kinds of surveys are rarely polarizing figures, if at all. Of course, they needed and had periods of controversies in their careers to make them interesting, but on the whole, they are either well-loved or, at least, not hated. Madonna has got to be one of the most hated music figures of ALL TIME. I believe that she has more haters than lovers (or, at least those who love her are more silent). Streisand is another such figure and so she NEVER gets to top such polls or even get herself included in the first place.. People hate M for various reasons, but I think most do for she IS someone they can never (and long to) be..

MUSCLES AND VEINS

LOL. Yeah, she's a freak to many, but unlike the "lovable" and heartrendingly tragic MJ, Madonna is a BITCH who couldn't care less what others think.

and last but not least..

MISOGYNY

No matter what others say, no matter how well trod this topic is, misogyny still runs rampant in culture today. People wouldn't be so ageist against her if she were a man. True, "girl power" is in vogue today, but it seems only as far as sloganeering goes. But if a woman acts like a man and supplants for herself the male roles in REAL terms (like M does) and not just talk about it, then people turn on her..

Obviously these things may not consciously play in the minds of many of the respondents but I'm sure they play a role..

Nevertheless, except for the Beatles and perhaps Elvis (though arguable), Madonna is the GREATEST of all these artists in terms of real achievements..

you just hit the nail with that

[Guest ursaminorjim]

Who's Carrie Underwood again?

And while I don't understand the criteria for the rankings, really (is it based on whose albums people own? who they like? how many mp3s of an artist they have?), it's nice to see that so many classic artists are represented in any capacity. Frankly I'm shocked at some of the omissions (No U2? No Pink Floyd? No Prince?), and I'll never understand all the love for The Eagles (sure, they cross genre lines pretty fluidly and had some good tunes, but...really?). And Jefferson Airplane - great band, but who knew?

I think it says a lot that Madonna's in there at all, to be honest. As for the complaint that pop isn't taken seriously - count your blessings. There's not one metal act listed in there. Not one. At least pop gets a couple nods.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

POP MUSIC.

Pop music-- esp. dance-- is shunned by "connoisseurs" of music (though most of them are actually just pretentious sheep)and even casual listeners believe this shit. Pop=throwaway. Concentrate on pop, and you are NOT a music legend/artist. This despite the fact that, say, hip hop has some of the crappiest music around.

Wow. Just...wow.

You really have no idea what you're talking about sometimes. But I applaud your conviction, at least.

[Narendra Sen]

Who's Carrie Underwood again?

some gurl who sings county music and won the American Idol

[neutrocks]

Didn't really necessary mean just radio... this survey wasn't about radio right?

You're right. It's just some of these topics tend to get redundant and rehash the same things. But I see what you mean and agree that men tend to receive better respect in music than women.

[Voguerista]

^^^^

[afrolito]

Wow. Just...wow.

You really have no idea what you're talking about sometimes. But I applaud your conviction, at least.

Try most of the time.

[GimmeSomeMo]

Er, excuse me bitch but I am 24 (don't look a day over 20). I know A LOT about A LOT of things. Dont be such an ageist whore!

OMG SELF INVOLVED POST OF THE DAY RIGHT HERE

[s@ndz]

Wow. Just...wow.

You really have no idea what you're talking about sometimes. But I applaud your conviction, at least.

Please. On this or in some other things, you either just don't agree with me or you don't get it.

And speaking of one not getting anything...

Try most of the time.

Have you found something that concerns YOU?

Without fail, you point a finger at others not realizing most of your fingers point back at you. Oh, well...

[Guest bluejean]

Perhaps Madonna's music is just not appreciated as much in general by younger generations.

I do think the time will come where she will be celebrated in the same way Michael Jackson is.

[Nikki]

I'm certain that most of the people who voted don't even listen to the beatles or elvis right now, but that doesn't matter, they'd still vote for them, against madonna, simply because it's cool, no one will think it's odd because theyve been praised for years now. It's very uncool to like Madonna on the other hand. The way people are talking about Madonna in the papers, which such disrespect, think about it, if one kid would say those kind of things to the cruelest bitch in high school they might be suspended for a few days. (I'm talking about the way people such as chelsea handler speak about her, the dailymail's "writers", etc..) And yet, in today's media it's allowed. No wonder people will start to disrespect and dislike her so much, if not hate her. We never read those kind of things about those older male artists. It's a cruel men's world. Even after emancipation it still is. And the worst thing is that most females don't even care.

[howie]

It's all a media conspiracy in my opinion.

[Snowball83]

Unfortunately there are so many factors going against Madonna that the other acts don't have (or don't have to a great degree compared to hers). After ALL THIS TIME and so late into her career, Madonna is still facing barriers and still has to fight against the grain.

AGE.

Yes, WE know that on MORE THAN ANY OTHER ACT, Madonna's age is being used against her by almost everyone, esp. the young. Seeing someone of her age and "act like" Rihanna or Gaga doesn't sit well with them: She's trying too hard, bordering on the gross. McCartney, the Stones, even MJ has or had it better.

POP MUSIC.

Pop music-- esp. dance-- is shunned by "connoisseurs" of music (though most of them are actually just pretentious sheep)and even casual listeners believe this shit. Pop=throwaway. Concentrate on pop, and you are NOT a music legend/artist. This despite the fact that, say, hip hop has some of the crappiest music around. Of course, M's latest music have not been legendary in terms of quality, either, sad to say... (she's held up to higher standards, and so her low quality work may be high quality if done by others)

OUT OF SIGHT, LEGEND.

Visibility keeps an artist going on a continuing career, but it's absence (visual/physical, at least) that provides mystery and an air of un-attainability/unreachability that firms up one's "legend" in the minds of the people. They hear Elvis' music, but he's not around anymore, or they hear Aretha's, but she's not a media whore, and so people tend to look up to them more. M has always been around. Familiarity indeed breeds contempt. Also, untimely DEATH is one of the greatest legend-makers..

MEDIA WHORE

I agree that M's media-baiting esp. in the earlier periods of her career hampered perceptions for her musical achievements

POLARIZERS ARE FROZEN

Notice that people who go really up the rankings in these kinds of surveys are rarely polarizing figures, if at all. Of course, they needed and had periods of controversies in their careers to make them interesting, but on the whole, they are either well-loved or, at least, not hated. Madonna has got to be one of the most hated music figures of ALL TIME. I believe that she has more haters than lovers (or, at least those who love her are more silent). Streisand is another such figure and so she NEVER gets to top such polls or even get herself included in the first place.. People hate M for various reasons, but I think most do for she IS someone they can never (and long to) be..

MUSCLES AND VEINS

LOL. Yeah, she's a freak to many, but unlike the "lovable" and heartrendingly tragic MJ, Madonna is a BITCH who couldn't care less what others think.

and last but not least..

MISOGYNY

No matter what others say, no matter how well trod this topic is, misogyny still runs rampant in culture today. People wouldn't be so ageist against her if she were a man. True, "girl power" is in vogue today, but it seems only as far as sloganeering goes. But if a woman acts like a man and supplants for herself the male roles in REAL terms (like M does) and not just talk about it, then people turn on her..

Obviously these things may not consciously play in the minds of many of the respondents but I'm sure they play a role..

Nevertheless, except for the Beatles and perhaps Elvis (though arguable), Madonna is the GREATEST of all these artists in terms of real achievements..

Exactly, to all of your point. The age factor, the muscles, the ‘cold’ image make her interesting but not likeable to most. All my life I’ve had people tell me ‘She’s too old… old enough to be your mother’. And when racy music videos of hers play people say ‘Urgh put it away’, it’s just an automatic response… the general public are practically robots, programmed into thinking what’s right and wrong. People find it impossible for her to still be sexy at 50, and with muscles like that it’s not even questionable.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

Please. On this or in some other things, you either just don't agree with me or you don't get it.

Well, what's to get? You throw out a baseless, provocative blanket statement like "hip hop has some of the crappiest music around" as a matter of fact, and then suggest not only that pop and dance music are dismissed by "connoisseurs" who are "pretentious sheep" (who exactly are you talking about here? critics? people who follow dance music exclusively?), but that Aretha Franklin's legendary status has more to do with her imagined air of unattainability than the fact that she's recorded some of the most incredible pop, soul, and gospel music of the twentieth century.

I mean, maybe these people who were surveyed just don't care as much for Madonna as you do? Isn't that enough? Why the need to somehow justify what you perceive as a slight with a bunch of bullet points that, frankly, don't all wash? I mean, look again at that list. She's there. And above a lot of artists that you would expect to see in a survey like this.

[Kurt420]

You know what is funny I don't ever remember a period in my life where Madonna was "hot". Obviously she was as I was alive during all of the 80's but from my teens on (early 90's) Madonna was never "it". In middle school it was NOT cool to like Madonna back then...AT ALL. I'd imagine the kids today would have an easier time admitting they are a big fan of hers than some of us may had in those "dark years" of '92-'93. At least now Madonna is a bit more respected it seems, back then she was just a washed up slut who's career was about over (many truly believed that).

The two main comments I remember hearing from my contemporaries/classmates at the time is that she's "gross" and believe it or not, even then it was already starting, "she's OLD". To 12-13 year olds 34-35 was the age of our mothers....actually my mom is younger than Madonna so, Madonna was technically older than a lot of our mothers at the time.

So basically they are still saying the same things. She's still "gross" but instead of being gross for being extremely sexual (ie: posing with old men, fingering herself over mirrors, faux rape scenes...not mild stuff like the HC album cover), she's gross for not being "age appropriate" and her muscles. And obviously the obsession with her age has only perpetuated over the years as she's remained vital and stayed popular into her 50's now.

[neutrocks]

You know what is funny I don't ever remember a period in my life where Madonna was "hot". Obviously she was as I was alive during all of the 80's but from my teens on (early 90's) Madonna was never "it". In middle school it was NOT cool to like Madonna back then...AT ALL. I'd imagine the kids today would have an easier time admitting they are a big fan of hers than some of us may had in those "dark years" of '92-'93. At least now Madonna is a bit more respected it seems, back then she was just a washed up slut who's career was about over (many truly believed that).

The two main comments I remember hearing from my contemporaries/classmates at the time is that she's "gross" and believe it or not, even then it was already starting, "she's OLD". To 12-13 year olds 34-35 was the age of our mothers....actually my mom is younger than Madonna so, Madonna was technically older than a lot of our mothers at the time.

So basically they are still saying the same things. She's still "gross" but instead of being gross for being extremely sexual (ie: posing with old men, fingering herself over mirrors, faux rape scenes...not mild stuff like the HC album cover), she's gross for not being "age appropriate" and her muscles. And obviously the obsession with her age has only perpetuated over the years as she's remained vital and stayed popular into her 50's now.

The typical teen didn't really appreciate Madonna back in 2000 when she released "Music". At the time, I was with a class of High School kids for the school I worked for and we were all on a field trip. The bus had a radio installed on it, so the station was tuned to the latest pop station. I recall "Music" came on. Of course, I was excited to hear it, but I kept hearing kids groaning, asking the bus driver to change the channel. This is when the song was quite popular on radio. This is the time when Backstreet Boys, Nsync and Britney Spears were extremely popular, but even then these kids didn't particularly like them either. They like the harder stuff. I found it was the Junior High kids who liked the boy bands and Britney more. At the same time, neither group were favorable to Madonna.

[IsaacHarris]

You know what is funny I don't ever remember a period in my life where Madonna was "hot". Obviously she was as I was alive during all of the 80's but from my teens on (early 90's) Madonna was never "it". In middle school it was NOT cool to like Madonna back then...AT ALL. I'd imagine the kids today would have an easier time admitting they are a big fan of hers than some of us may had in those "dark years" of '92-'93. At least now Madonna is a bit more respected it seems, back then she was just a washed up slut who's career was about over (many truly believed that).

Im in High School, and Madonna still isnt the HOT Thing. But there is a different Respect for her now, since she is older.

To alot of youngsters, myself included, Any Artist over the Age of 40 is considered OFF LIMITS to disrespect.

I Dont Listen to the Beatles, but Im aware that they're in High Regard. So Kids My Age See Madonna as a "their Mom's Music"

"I Dont listen to her, but she's a legend. Fo' Sho'"

"Madonna??? ...Shes Cool. My MOTHER REALLY LIKES HER"

"She's still got it at 50. Wow..... Flirting with Justin Timberlake."

MY TEACHERS, HOWEVER, LOVE HER.

My English Teacher even saw the Virgin Tour!!!

I Can Imagine the jealousy they felt when I missed 4 Days to go see S&S.

[Narendra Sen]

Even today it is not cool to like Madonna. I just finished high school and I can tell you I was the only one in my class that liked Madonna. The irony is that we were 6 boys (me included) and 24 girls (none of them liked her music they were listening to indie-rock, rock, D'n'B, stuff like that ); they would say that she's gross ('ewww, she's singing my sugar is raw at the age of 50?' ),disgusting, has-been, grandma, you name it! And the thing is she isn't at least respected, they think of her as of a joke!

And what saddens me the most is that the majority of people over 20, 30, 40 have the same attitude (she's an old whore who wants attention, she can't sing, she's not a serious artist). I don't know anybody who is a Madonna fan!

[s@ndz]

Well, what's to get? You throw out a baseless, provocative blanket statement like "hip hop has some of the crappiest music around" as a matter of fact, and then suggest not only that pop and dance music are dismissed by "connoisseurs" who are "pretentious sheep" (who exactly are you talking about here? critics? people who follow dance music exclusively?), but that Aretha Franklin's legendary status has more to do with her imagined air of unattainability than the fact that she's recorded some of the most incredible pop, soul, and gospel music of the twentieth century.

In America at least, hip hop (or RnB) has way better perception as a genre than pop, and this perception extends to artists. The reasons why so is dubious and much hip hop music is indeed utter crap. Of course, disagree if you will.. And though I have to say that in my OPINION Aretha is one of the most OVERRATED artists EVER, NEVER in my post was it implied that her legendary status owes more to anything than her body of work or talent, and if you misunderstood the context how I used her as an example, then, sorry, I don't feel like explaining it to you.

I mean, maybe these people who were surveyed just don't care as much for Madonna as you do? Isn't that enough? Why the need to somehow justify what you perceive as a slight with a bunch of bullet points that, frankly, don't all wash? I mean, look again at that list. She's there. And above a lot of artists that you would expect to see in a survey like this.

If acknowledging that the respondents just don't care for Madonna as much as any one of us is enough (as it seems you wanna gatekeep opinions), then we might as well close this thread as soon as a poster does so. What's the point of a forum anyway? I'm fully aware that a big part of those surveyed might not care for Madonna at all, but many of them might also DISLIKE her. I'm just stating some theories, most well discussed already, that point out why she fared so low relative to her accomplishments and status. And IF indeed other artists are expected to top her in these kinds of surveys (whatever it is you mean and whoever they are you're referring to), then there have to be reasons for it, now, aren't there?

[Nikki]

lmao i was joking and edited right after i said that but of course someone noticed

[Nikki]

The typical teen didn't really appreciate Madonna back in 2000 when she released "Music". At the time, I was with a class of High School kids for the school I worked for and we were all a field trip. The bus has a radio installed on it, so the station was tuned to the latest pop station. I recall "Music" came on. Of course, I was excited to hear it, but I kept hearing kids groaning, asking the bus driver to change the channel. This is when the song was quite popular on radio. This is the time when Backstreet Boys, Nsync and Britney Spears were extremely popular, but even then these kids didn't particularly like them either. They like the harder stuff. I found it was the Junior High kids who liked the boy bands and Britney more. At the same time, neither group were favorable to Madonna.

i have to say that music is one of those songs that i dont like to listen to with a lot of people in the same room, same with celebration.. there's something about it that almost makes me feel embarrassed to be a fan. (just listen to the beginning of celebration, the rap in AL is also a good example.. it just doesnt sound so good, imo) so if a song like that is on the radio, and the artist aint very popular, then i expect those kind of reactions from young people. however, when a good madonna song comes on (like about any song from rol and lap) i'm proud to be her fan and i want everyone to hear how brilliant her music is. if then someone would complain about the music, well, i'd be pretty pissed off.

however, its better not to spent too much time on thinking about the comments of 15 year olds. when i was that age nick cartner was "cool" and "hot", ben affleck and jlo were kind of a big deal. right now i think you'd get a lot of laughs if you'd admit to being a fan of those people, way more laughs than admitting you like madonna. in that way, she has gained respect. she's been an A list her entire career..

just before her concert in werchter i read an article about the difference between britney and madonna. the journalist literally said that people don't laugh with someone like madonna, unlike with britney. in that way i also think that once you are older than 20, it's more respectable to like someone like madonna, admitting you like britney when you're above the age of 20 is something i dont understand, but to each their own

.. i know that its always "cool" to like unknown bands, indie or alternative music, i often get the idea that people doubt someone's taste in music, heck, even intelligence when saying they like pop (commercial) music. that, i hate. (altho there are pretty stupid people, barbie dolls, at her concerts but lets just ignore that for now)

[Dickens]

"Is the music of the '60s really better than anything else in living memory, or is that just a conceit of the preening baby boomers who grew up on it?"

I would certainly answer yes to the second part of that question.

[Guest ursaminorjim]

I would certainly answer yes to the second part of that question.

Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think that the music of the 60s is not better than what came after. Not flaming here, just curious.