Pet Shop Boys were to produce for Hard Candy

[peter]

I suppose it seems that way since he was the main producer on COADF only. But, remember he worked with her on tour for many years prior and they did X-Static Process together on AL. Plus he still does mixes for her so they have actually worked together for about 8 years in one way or another at this point. For M, that's not too bad I guess!

Yeah, three tours, two albums, and remixes for three albums is a pretty decent run with Madonna. (I hope there's still more to come, too...)

Yeah, that's spot on. Also, they DID start working on some music after the CT, I think Stuart himself confirmed this, but Madonna probably only wanted him for a couple of songs and realized she couldn't use any of them next to Timbaland & The Neptunes, that's my guess. Stuart himself encouraged Madonna to work with those people, that's why I think this PSB quote is way off.

I don't recall Stuart encouraging her to work with Timbaland and Pharrell. In an interview well before the release of Hard Candy, he indicated he didn't 'do urban' and her new record was going to have an urban sound. He then gave Timbaland a little respect (he said something vague like, 'Tim's great...') but then he kind of slammed Pharrell (said something akin to him recycling/regurgitating old material).

If they did work on stuff after CT, I'd love for it to surface. (I had a friend who worked at MTV, and one of his coworkers was a HUGE Madonna fan. I met him when I went to NYC to see CT live... he told my friend and me that Madonna's people said there were, like, 30-40 tracks of material for COADF and that the follow-up album would be COADF Part 2. Obviously that changed... made me wonder what else of her collabs with Stuart still remain. When we got all those leaks in the past year, I noticed there weren't any Stuart leaks. Mirwais, Orbit, and Pat Leonard, but no Stuart. Interesting...)

no it wouldn't! pet shop boys stuff doesn't sound anything like her confessions stuff. nor is it like cher either! the music would have been cool!

I hate to disagree, but PSB remixed "Sorry" (she even used their remix on tour) and the bassline intro to "Jump" drew comparisons to "West End Girls." It was well-documented when the album came out that Madonna and Stuart had a moment in the studio when they each realized their mutual admiration for PSB. (I guess it was more of a revelation for Stuart -- he didn't know whether Madonna liked PSB or not, and she surprised him by exclaiming that she "f-ing loved them" or something like that.)

COADF has some wide-ranging sounds, when you take into account "Like It or Not," "Isaac," "Future Lovers," and "Hung Up," just for a sample. But you have to admit there's a nod or two to the PSB sound -- and to work with them so closely to COADF would have felt a little like a repeat -- which she is often hesitant/reluctant to do.

[Guest hot revolver]

Do u think it would still be called Hard Cady if they were to produce it?

[Guest Danny86]

I don't recall Stuart encouraging her to work with Timbaland and Pharrell. In an interview well before the release of Hard Candy, he indicated he didn't 'do urban' and her new record was going to have an urban sound. He then gave Timbaland a little respect (he said something vague like, 'Tim's great...') but then he kind of slammed Pharrell (said something akin to him recycling/regurgitating old material).

"That's it -- not too intellectual," she said before elaborating. "I was just thinking about what I wanted to do next. I'd made a dance record -- my last album (2005's Confessions On A Dance Floor) -- which was mostly house music, and I was sitting around talking to (previous songwriting-producing collaborator) Stuart Price one day and he said, 'Well what do you want to do next?' I said, 'I want to make dance music as always.'

And he said, 'Well, what kind of music do you like right now?' And I said, 'Well, the only records I love are Justin's and Timbaland's.' And he said, 'Well, why don't you work with them?' So I did. It's a great sound, so why not?"

http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Artists/M/Madonn...388366-sun.html

Stuart probably dislikes Pharrell's style on a personal level, but fortunately he was WAY off with his comment because Pharrell gave cool stuff to Madonna.

[Guest d'kat]

Yeah, three tours, two albums, and remixes for three albums is a pretty decent run with Madonna. (I hope there's still more to come, too...)

I don't recall Stuart encouraging her to work with Timbaland and Pharrell. In an interview well before the release of Hard Candy, he indicated he didn't 'do urban' and her new record was going to have an urban sound. He then gave Timbaland a little respect (he said something vague like, 'Tim's great...') but then he kind of slammed Pharrell (said something akin to him recycling/regurgitating old material).

If they did work on stuff after CT, I'd love for it to surface. (I had a friend who worked at MTV, and one of his coworkers was a HUGE Madonna fan. I met him when I went to NYC to see CT live... he told my friend and me that Madonna's people said there were, like, 30-40 tracks of material for COADF and that the follow-up album would be COADF Part 2. Obviously that changed... made me wonder what else of her collabs with Stuart still remain. When we got all those leaks in the past year, I noticed there weren't any Stuart leaks. Mirwais, Orbit, and Pat Leonard, but no Stuart. Interesting...)

I hate to disagree, but PSB remixed "Sorry" (she even used their remix on tour) and the bassline intro to "Jump" drew comparisons to "West End Girls." It was well-documented when the album came out that Madonna and Stuart had a moment in the studio when they each realized their mutual admiration for PSB. (I guess it was more of a revelation for Stuart -- he didn't know whether Madonna liked PSB or not, and she surprised him by exclaiming that she "f-ing loved them" or something like that.)

COADF has some wide-ranging sounds, when you take into account "Like It or Not," "Isaac," "Future Lovers," and "Hung Up," just for a sample. But you have to admit there's a nod or two to the PSB sound -- and to work with them so closely to COADF would have felt a little like a repeat -- which she is often hesitant/reluctant to do.

i don't have to admit to anything! i DO NOT feel that pet shop boys music is anything like madonna's confessions stuff. they remixed sorry - THAT'S ALL!! i would have liked the album much better if she had worked with psb because they have a pop/dance sound and that's what i feel madonna is best at. hard candy is a good album, i prefer it to confessions, but i prefer her pop/dance musi. and i am so sure that you don't really hate to disagree with me at all!

[funkydita]

Stuart probably dislikes Pharrell's style on a personal level, but fortunately he was WAY off with his comment because Pharrell gave cool stuff to Madonna.

I found the Mixmag quote rather odd and somewhat unprofessional:

"This new record-Madonna wants to do an r'n'b record and its a tough decision but i don't think that's the right kind of record for her to make. I don't think I am the right person to do it with her, either. She's worked with Pharell and Timbaland and I think Tim is great but Pharell? I don't get it-he regurgitates the same crap again and again...."

[hesser]

I found the Mixmag quote rather odd and somewhat unprofessional:

"This new record-Madonna wants to do an r'n'b record and its a tough decision but i don't think that's the right kind of record for her to make. I don't think I am the right person to do it with her, either. She's worked with Pharell and Timbaland and I think Tim is great but Pharell? I don't get it-he regurgitates the same crap again and again...."

It was extremely unprofessional of SP. Pharrell has MUCH larger streak of hits than he does. I only know Price through Madonna. I know Pharrell through multiple artists. He probably gets MANY more requests to work with than Price does.

[peter]

"That's it -- not too intellectual," she said before elaborating. "I was just thinking about what I wanted to do next. I'd made a dance record -- my last album (2005's Confessions On A Dance Floor) -- which was mostly house music, and I was sitting around talking to (previous songwriting-producing collaborator) Stuart Price one day and he said, 'Well what do you want to do next?' I said, 'I want to make dance music as always.'

And he said, 'Well, what kind of music do you like right now?' And I said, 'Well, the only records I love are Justin's and Timbaland's.' And he said, 'Well, why don't you work with them?' So I did. It's a great sound, so why not?"

http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Artists/M/Madonn...388366-sun.html

Stuart probably dislikes Pharrell's style on a personal level, but fortunately he was WAY off with his comment because Pharrell gave cool stuff to Madonna.

Thanks for sharing that... I'd never read that, so I missed his encouragement of her. (Given his later comments about Pharrell, it seems odd that he would encourage her to work with him... But then again, it seems he only encouraged her to work with Timbaland and JT. I guess you can encourage someone to go their own way, even though you don't care for the way they're going? That seems to be the tone for his feelings on Hard Candy.) Still, I'm appreciative.

i don't have to admit to anything! i DO NOT feel that pet shop boys music is anything like madonna's confessions stuff. they remixed sorry - THAT'S ALL!! i would have liked the album much better if she had worked with psb because they have a pop/dance sound and that's what i feel madonna is best at. hard candy is a good album, i prefer it to confessions, but i prefer her pop/dance musi. and i am so sure that you don't really hate to disagree with me at all!

Touchy much? Gosh. Seriously, I try to be polite. I don't like to disagree with people. Fine -- you don't HAVE to admit anything. But I think it's pretty clear that the opening bassline to "Jump" was a wink and a nod to PSB. Madonna and Stuart both admitted that. (Even though, at the time, when many people were saying it 'ripped off' "West End Girls," I took exception to that. It has a similar quality, but it's certainly not a sample. It's different enough.)

As I admitted, the music on Confessions is not ALL the same, so I clearly was not asserting that Confessions = PSB. Please don't get all bent out of shape over nothing.

I found the Mixmag quote rather odd and somewhat unprofessional:

"This new record-Madonna wants to do an r'n'b record and its a tough decision but i don't think that's the right kind of record for her to make. I don't think I am the right person to do it with her, either. She's worked with Pharell and Timbaland and I think Tim is great but Pharell? I don't get it-he regurgitates the same crap again and again...."

Thanks for finding that quote... I couldn't remember where I heard/read it. (To put a 'positive' spin on it? Maybe he'd heard about Pharrell making M cry in the studio and Stuart was giving him a little taste of his own medicine or something? Just being imaginative... But you're right -- it does seem a little unprofessional. "If you can't say something nice...")

[peter]

Okay, here it is:

POPJUSTICE: Let's talk 'music'! The two Pet Shop Boys references on the album are amazing. Do you hold your hands up to loving the Boys?

SP: I do, yes. I mean, who can not love the Pet Shop Boys? That's the thing. They were the first ever pop act I ever listened to. All of Chris Lowe's partsâ?¦ When I very first sat there with 'My First Keyboard' I was trying to work out how they did it, how they made those rhythms, how they got those sounds. I love the 'Disco' album with all the 12" mixes and I suppose it's not surprising fifteen years later that when it all pops up on the record I think 'oh, this sounds like the Pet Shop Boys.' I'm not going to try and disguise that, they're a big influence.

POPJUSTICE: So it's fair to say that Madonna wouldn't be where she is today without the Pet Shop Boys?

She really loves them as well. Because they worked with Bobby Orlando in New York really early on, and I'm guessing she would've been around there at that same period. So I think there's a huge kind of cross-over there. It's funny because when we were doing 'Jump' I didn't think she'd know who the Pet Shop Boys were but she was the one who was screaming 'Pet Shop Boys! I fucking love them!'

Source: http://www.popjustice.com/index.php?option...88&Itemid=9

[Guest d'kat]

Thanks for sharing that... I'd never read that, so I missed his encouragement of her. (Given his later comments about Pharrell, it seems odd that he would encourage her to work with him... But then again, it seems he only encouraged her to work with Timbaland and JT. I guess you can encourage someone to go their own way, even though you don't care for the way they're going? That seems to be the tone for his feelings on Hard Candy.) Still, I'm appreciative.

Touchy much? Gosh. Seriously, I try to be polite. I don't like to disagree with people. Fine -- you don't HAVE to admit anything. But I think it's pretty clear that the opening bassline to "Jump" was a wink and a nod to PSB. Madonna and Stuart both admitted that. (Even though, at the time, when many people were saying it 'ripped off' "West End Girls," I took exception to that. It has a similar quality, but it's certainly not a sample. It's different enough.)

As I admitted, the music on Confessions is not ALL the same, so I clearly was not asserting that Confessions = PSB. Please don't get all bent out of shape over nothing.

i'm not getting 'bent out of shape' and i'm not touchy either. it's just an opinion. i don't feel that i have to admit to anything i don't want to admit to. other people on here have different opinions to others so i can as well!

Thanks for finding that quote... I couldn't remember where I heard/read it. (To put a 'positive' spin on it? Maybe he'd heard about Pharrell making M cry in the studio and Stuart was giving him a little taste of his own medicine or something? Just being imaginative... But you're right -- it does seem a little unprofessional. "If you can't say something nice...")

[jonski43]

Surely Timabaland is far more guilty of regurgitating his sound that Pharell? Pharell's stuff on HC was great but the production on 4M sounded like a sea lion honking a load of horns in a circus.

Personally, I'm not sure the Pet Shop Boys could have done Madonna justice. They haven't really had a classic song that has caught the public attention in over 10-12 years. Really Go West was their last big song with staying power and that wasn't theirs anyway.

I do think that if Stuart had come in on some of Hard Candy and the urban feel was lessened and the overall look redesigned the album would have been huge.

[Guest]

Surely Timabaland is far more guilty of regurgitating his sound that Pharell? Pharell's stuff on HC was great but the production on 4M sounded like a sea lion honking a load of horns in a circus.

Personally, I'm not sure the Pet Shop Boys could have done Madonna justice. They haven't really had a classic song that has caught the public attention in over 10-12 years. Really Go West was their last big song with staying power and that wasn't theirs anyway.

I do think that if Stuart had come in on some of Hard Candy and the urban feel was lessened and the overall look redesigned the album would have been huge.

I agree HC needed more producers on the project to give it a more diverse and creative feel to it

[Guest Danny86]

HC already had 2 sounds on it by 2 teams, adding a totally different third one would have made it into a mess.

I don't see how Stuart could have made the album "huge" though, when "4 Minutes" would have been the only thing to get major attention anyway.

[jonski43]

HC already had 2 sounds on it by 2 teams, adding a totally different third one would have made it into a mess.

I don't see how Stuart could have made the album "huge" though, when "4 Minutes" would have been the only thing to get major attention anyway.

I meant, lessening the presence of the other producers and having more of Stuart to create a general flow which is not really there.

4M is a real odd one. Although the single was massive, I think it actually had a negative effect on the album. It scored by picking up Madonna fans, Justin fans and the Timbaland sound that was very in. But, I think a lot of people would see that as representative of the album and not want a whole album of that sound by Madonna.

Back to the original point, have the PSBs produced anything for anyone else recently? They did quite a good job with Minelli but that was 20 years ago.

[Guest tir69]

I meant, lessening the presence of the other producers and having more of Stuart to create a general flow which is not really there.

4M is a real odd one. Although the single was massive, I think it actually had a negative effect on the album. It scored by picking up Madonna fans, Justin fans and the Timbaland sound that was very in. But, I think a lot of people would see that as representative of the album and not want a whole album of that sound by Madonna.

Back to the original point, have the PSBs produced anything for anyone else recently? They did quite a good job with Minelli but that was 20 years ago.

Girls aloud - the loving kind

[fak]

I think HC is a diverse album, far more diverse than COADF, AL, ROL...probably very similar to Music in musical content

It was just an album that did not reach out as COADF did. i dont think its about euro-dance, hip-hop or anything like that, it seems to be an album a lot of fans disliked and it probably lost a lot of casual fans which would have picked up the album after some time.

Im happy the PSB did not produce anything. It would have been an interesting project but I dont think they have anything to offer Madonna.

I agree HC needed more producers on the project to give it a more diverse and creative feel to it

[Guest ursaminorjim]

Girls aloud - the loving kind

Actually, they just co-wrote that with Xenomania. The last non-PSB record they've produced was Sam Taylor-Wood's cover of The Passions' "I'm in love with a German film star."

Genius video!

[Crystal Coffin]

PSB?

[acko]

Am I totally late in finding out Angela Becker is now Pet Shop Boys' manager?

[Guest Danny86]

In a 2005 interview Stuart admitted the PSB influence, so maybe Madonna thought it would be more of the same by working with them?

http://www.popjustice.com/index.php?option...88&Itemid=9

Let's talk 'music'! The two Pet Shop Boys references on the album are amazing. Do you hold your hands up to loving the Boys?

I do, yes. I mean, who can not love the Pet Shop Boys? That's the thing. They were the first ever pop act I ever listened to. All of Chris Lowe's parts? When I very first sat there with 'My First Keyboard' I was trying to work out how they did it, how they made those rhythms, how they got those sounds. I love the 'Disco' album with all the 12" mixes and I suppose it's not surprising fifteen years later that when it all pops up on the record I think 'oh, this sounds like the Pet Shop Boys.' I'm not going to try and disguise that, they're a big influence.

So it's fair to say that Madonna wouldn't be where she is today without the Pet Shop Boys?

She really loves them as well. Because they worked with Bobby Orlando in New York really early on, and I'm guessing she would've been around there at that same period. So I think there's a huge kind of cross-over there. It's funny because when we were doing 'Jump' I didn't think she'd know who the Pet Shop Boys were but she was the one who was screaming 'Pet Shop Boys! I fucking love them!'

What are the TWO references on COADF? I know "West End Girls" is referenced in "Jump", but is the other one "Being Boring", also in "Jump"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMtPu6QyRzQ

[peter]

^ I don't know. (Yeah, I found that "two references" to be mysterious, as well, when I quoted the PopJustice interview above.) I watched that video (had never seen that!) and I didn't really catch any audio references, though. (Other than maybe that opening chord... I guess it's possible.) Curious, at any rate.

It's funny, at the very beginning, I thought the photography (with the male model and the dog) was very Bruce Weber. Then, as it continued, I thought there were a lot of JML references (with the hallway shots, and the opening the door shot), so I thought maybe it was Mondino! LOL. I'm glad the end cleared it all up for me by giving Weber credit. I wonder why M never did a vid with him -- just still shots.

I don't know the chronology though -- whether this was released before or after JML...

[Guest Danny86]

^ I don't know. (Yeah, I found that "two references" to be mysterious, as well, when I quoted the PopJustice interview above.) I watched that video (had never seen that!) and I didn't really catch any audio references, though. (Other than maybe that opening chord... I guess it's possible.) Curious, at any rate.

I was thinking about the opening chord as well... What about "Forbidden Love"? I always wanted to know what the inspiration was behind that song, fans mentioned so many references, including Giorgio Moroder, Erasure, Royskopp, Scissor Sisters, Daft Punk, PSB... The "Popcorn" homage is kinda obvious, but other than that?