The Madonna has no 'real talent' debate..

[acko]

terminology banned from this topic :

'reinvention'

'culture vulture'

'manipulate the media'

'self promotion'

'business woman'

'rip-off'

'relies on her collaborators'

So the other night i was flicking through the channels half asleep..

& I came across this 'debate' on RAIUNO where they were discussing

'Icons of the Heart'..Marylin Monroe, Frank Sinatra & Madonna.

When it came to the Madonna segment this one tanned & slickly hair gelled motherfucker

stated : 'It's not a matter of talent, for she has no talent. She can't sing, okay she's capable

of producing a 'sound'..She's no Monroe or Sinatra..she's has her empire with other business ventures

releasing books etc.. .' To which this other bitch replied :'and yet she's the best selling female singer of all time..'

But they all agreed, 'she's a performer, not a singer who puts on a great show with smoke & mirrors, she's not really beautiful or a good dancer.'

So once in a blue moon I find myself 2 b really annoyed at comments like these, cuz a large segment

of the general public seems to agree with this assesment.

As a musician/songwriter, I think her talent is her strong sense of melody.

I remember when 'Celebration' the single was released my friend who went 2

this prestigious stage arts school said she & her musician friends were laughing at how

cheesy the song was but then at the same time they were all saying how brilliant a

pop melody it was.

As a singer : her versatility & interpretation.

'Like A Virgin'

'like A Prayer'

'Papa Don't Preach'

'Don't Cry For Me Argentina'

'Ray Of Light'

'Frozen'

'Don't Tell Me'

..sounds like 6 different singers 2 me if u had no idea who this Madonna bird was

As a dancer/performer, she understands theatre & uses movement 2 tell a story..rather than

just execute choreography at high speed.

So what's the deal here, is it her erratic quality of live vocals? High trees catch a lot of wind

& that's why lesser vocalists & performers aren't singled out as she is? (hello, Janet?). is it cuz

she's a woman & a slut? (Jean Paul Gaultier: 'She's not a zslut.')

WHAT IS HER TALENT!?

Discuss.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

WHAT IS HER TALENT!?

the tambourine.

[MaddysMuff]

I read it as "Madonna has no real pearls." Oops.

[Flip The Switch]

[Ciccone's Cheeks]

the Madonna is an untalented disco dolly, one hit wonder, who fucked her way to the top. shes mickey mouse on helium. she sucks.

[acko]

- What's not real?

- Everything's real on you.

- They just don't think so.

- I think so.

- I'm real, you guys.

- Except for the pearls.

- They are, too, real.

- All of them?

Madonna can't afford real pearls!! x5

I can so! I'm rich. I can have anything I want.

[Guest bluejean]

It's her personality.

Her drive. Her charisma. She is a fantastic performer. She is sexy. She had something to say, a point of view and a vision. She is interesting and enlightening. She had and still has guts and balls.

And I do believe her contribution to songwriting is far more significant than some people prefer to think.

As for her voice, it has gone from a girlie squark to throaty to thin to warbly and now to crow like. Maybe she was never great technically but I love her voice (in the studio that is), it all comes back to her personality.

[MaddysMuff]

It's her personality.

Her drive. Her charisma. She is a fantastic performer. She is sexy. She had something to say, a point of view and a vision. She is interesting and enlightening. She had and still has guts and balls.

And I do believe her contribution to songwriting is far more significant than some people prefer to think.

Well, bj summed it up quite well. Agreed on all fronts.

[gemini1313]

gasp.

[MLVC82]

listen to "OH FATHER" and tell me your heart doesn't break and understand...what she is singing and how hurt she is.

I'm usually the one that has to have her back in debates like these.....because they only agree on her ability to Market herself.........you could 200 million dollars into marketing a shit pop artist.....will she have a hit?....maybe........will she last........no.

MADONNA's real talent is a combination of many things her voice(yeah i'm biased....but i love it) her songwriting abilites (her bridges and hooks can be amazing) her live performance (unmatched!) her ability to change (not re-invent.....but understand music is changing and that she has to change to stay relevant) her style (obviously) her knack for finding the best of the best....and making them EVEN BETTER getting the VERY BEST out of them. Her Dancing (biased once again....but i was never a fan of the Paula Abdul/Janet JAckson/Britney Spears choreography style.....this list can go on and on.

[Kurt420]

I agree with everything bj said.

Her charisma, showmanship, gift for hooks and melodies and her interpretation of song. I also love her style of songwriting as a lot of times she's not so literal. Her best songs can be interpreted in so many different ways ie LAP could be about religion or sex, OF could be interpreted as being about her father or Sean etc etc.

[HolidayGuy]

She is a fusion of multiple talents- whether she's a master of one or not- the way they come together is what has made her incomparable to any other female act since she emerged.

[GimmeSomeMo]

She is a fusion of multiple talents- whether she's a master of one or not- the way they come together is what has made her incomparable to any other female act since she emerged.

This. Madonna is a perfect storm of STEELY work ethic, talent for memorable melodies, genuine curiosity for life and willingness to better herself (thats where the artist part comes in) and business sense.

[Guest northernlad]

I also love her style of songwriting as a lot of times she's not so literal. Her best songs can be interpreted in so many different ways...

As someone who loves poetry & digs some truely cryptic songwriters I find this a bit shocking. A few of her songs leave a question in the air but she almost never beats around the bush to get her point across. I agree w/ the rest of what you & that guy you quoted said though.

[paradise]

most of the producers she has worked with say great things about her talent as a writer and producer. you have to give her credit in the studio because mirwais, price, orbit, pettibone etc never really amount to much outside of their work with madonna. her style evolves and she has a really versatile back catalogue. how many other artists can boast such diverse albums? the difference between 'like a prayer' and 'i'm breathless' alone within 12 months is impressive

[Guest northernlad]

@ Madonna as the artiste

"Always dream and shoot higher than you know you can do. Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself. An artist is a creature driven by demons. He don’t know why they choose him and he’s usually too busy to wonder why. He is completely amoral in that he will rob, borrow, beg, or steal from anybody and everybody to get the work done." -Faulkner 1956

[horn]

WHAT IS HER TALENT!?

Her pussy can kill a man.

[spazz]

Her pussy can kill a man.

[Nessie]

She has the talent to DOMINATE me

[Avarice]

Who are they comparing her to. Marilyn Monroe would be considered a "bad actress" if she made movies today and she certainly wasn't much of a singer either. I bet Frank Sinatra was a bonafide a*hole to people and he wouldn't last 5 seconds in a movie of today. (I can't imagine him on wires and jumping from burning buildings). Yet they both are worshipped because they excelled in their profession in their time.

M is still on her journey. and she evolves, tries different things. She can't be pigeonholed. She's not just a singer or a dancer, or actress, she's ALL of that and then some.

Madonna is a good singer, not the best or most technical but she can carry a tune. She can write a decent song (if she's not re-cycling old stuff). The thing about her is that she would've been an uber-producer. She's got fail-safe eye and ear for talent, but her ego is too big to stay out of the spotlight. She's a performer, passionate about what she does. People who say she has no talent are probably envious and bitter that she's still around. You don't have a 25+ career in showbiz without any talent.

[Nikki]

welke bittere belg heeft er nu weer zijn mond open gedaan, acko?

The reason why people label her untalented, is usually caused by ignorance. If they'd see and actually listen to her work, watch her best performances and TRY to be more open minded, they'd see that she's the most talented bitch of this planet.

[acko]

welke bittere belg heeft er nu weer zijn mond open gedaan, acko?

't waren Italianen op de RAI

[loomer]

But they all agreed, 'she's a performer, not a singer who puts on a great show with smoke & mirrors, she's not really beautiful or a good dancer.'

So she's ugly and talentless then. Why didn't they bring up her acting?

[Nikki]

't waren Italianen op de RAI

wil nu niet dom doen ofzo maar.. wat is de "RAI"? en ik altijd denken dat de Italianen de grootste madonna slijmers waren van de planeet. guess not

[acko]

wel nu niet dom doen ofzo maar.. wat is de "RAI"? en ik altijd denken dat de Italianen de grootste madonna slijmers waren van de planeet. guess not

Dju, da's waar..die zitten niet meer op de kabel in heel België.

Da's de Italiaanse BRT. Pas op, 't volk ginder houdt van haar..

Ik heb ook familie in Abruzzo (streek van Madonna's grootouders) en

zeker na die aardbeving & die donatie is ze ginder zo'n beetje heilig verklaard.

[kitto]

She is too intelligent for dumb people to see her talent.

[Nikki]

Dju, da's waar..die zitten niet meer op de kabel in heel België.

Da's de Italiaanse BRT. Pas op, 't volk ginder houdt van haar..

Ik heb ook familie in Abruzzo (streek van Madonna's grootouders) en

zeker na die aardbeving & die donatie is ze ginder zo'n beetje heilig verklaard.

wait a minute.. familie van jou woont in de buurt van waar Madonna's grootouders komen? Misschien ben je wel familie van d'r

en idd, ik heb nog kabel

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I love the "no talent" argument. No career can last 27 years just on hype and controversy. A much lesser artist would've folded after the backlash from 1993 but Madonna was able to pull herself back up relatively unscathed, especially when you consider the other pop icon who saw a backlash in 1993 and didn't seem to receive the public's forgiveness until he died.

Madonna may not be the most naturally talented individual in music, but the "no talent" thing is stretching because if she didn't have substance behind the hype, the public would've seen right through her and she would've been a faded memory long ago. For most of the time she was ubercontroversial, people who hated her antics still loved her music, and it took an album as uncommercial and divisive as Erotica to have the tide turn against her. Erotica is a great album but it wasn't the type of album that was going to hold at bay people who were tired of her pushing the envelope because they still thought "Like A Prayer" and "Vogue" were great songs.

If its so easy to maintain a 25+ year career in pop music, why haven't more artists been able to do so? Elton, MJ and Cher are the only "pop stars" (rock is a totally different game where acts like The Stones and McCartney and the ilk are still revered as opposed to being shunned for age like how pop fans treat Madonna like she's Betty White) I can think of whose runs on the singles chart have lasted longer than Madonna's, and even Cher was never a consistant hitmaker like Madonna was in her heyday.

[Ciccone's Cheeks]

Her pussy can kill a man.

[Nikki]

also: people who say she's "not beautiful" seriously need to learn to actually LOOK at her pictures. Not pictures that only the tabloids allow you to see, but series of pictures of her from the past 52 years.

When I hear people say she's not beautiful, (or not a good singer and dancer) I know they've not done their homework