Madonna's relevancy

[afrolito]

I really don't see her being attacked or being scrutinized at the moment. Sure, there are the Perez Hilton posts, but they attack everything just for the sake of it. Most of comments are made in jest; nobody is protesting or outraged. This whole cougar thing is actually working in her favor. The whole idea of an older woman dating a younger man is becoming more and more accepted and even popularized. Isn't it one of the main themes in Courtney Cox's new show (which I do not watch, but have seen pics of her in tub with hot young man)... and Samantha's escapades in Sex and the City?

The whole cougar thing has always been a bit of a backhanded compliment. On the one hand, it means a woman is still hot after a certain age, but it also means she's still OLD. The backstory for all cougars, is that they're desperate, and pathetic in their drive to stay young, and attract young flesh. That's the entire premise of Cougar town in a nutshell.

As far as Madonna goes, hardly a week has gone by since her breakup with Guy, that the media hasn't obsessively scrutinized her relationship with Jesus, as nothing more than a midlife crisis. I remember one particularly sick story about her actually being jealous of her own daughters' youth. Totally vile.

To this day, people go on and on about Demi and Ashton, as if she was 100 years old. No one ever talks about the fact that Michael Douglas is actually older than both of Catherine Zeta Jones' parents. EVER.

[Skin]

To this day, people go on and on about Demi and Ashton, as if she was 100 years old. No one ever talks about the fact that Michael Douglas is actually older than both of Catherine Zeta Jones' parents. EVER.

I think Catherine lies about her age though. I want to see a birth certificate!!!

I also think she was born in Kenya!

[afrolito]

I think Catherine lies about her age though. I want to see a birth certificate!!!

I also think she was born in Kenya!

I heard she was a bitch, but never an old african

[Kurt420]

Prince had a hit album as recent as 2004. Would you have said he was relevant then?

He sold close to 3 million copies of that album worldwide but those numbers are inflated because most of the people that bought the album didn't even know they bought it. They thought they were simply paying for tickets to the tour where he was finally going to sing many of his old songs after abandoning them for a while. Nostalgia is what really fueled the success of this era and he seemed to embrace that. Why else would he kick it all off by doing a Purple Rain Medley at the Grammy's when you KNOW he could've went out and did a new song? And as I mentioned he chose to embrace his old music again for the tour. That fueled the Prince hype machine like nothing had in ages. Unlike Madonna he hasn't consistently had global number one singles that equal or surpass the success of his hits from his "golden years".

With no hit singles at all anywhere in the world during this time and the shady circumstances regarding the album sales I'd say no his current music wasn't relevant at the time. His singles were not sharing the top of the sales/airplay charts with Usher, Evanescence, Outkast and Maroon 5 at the time. He was relevant but his new music wasn't. Compare that to Madonna who's Give It 2 Me last year was bigger on a global level than what were considered fairly big hits by "relevant" acts....Britney's Piece Of Me, Kanye's Love Lockdown and Ne-Yo's Miss Independent.....and many people here have called GI2M a flop simply because of it's US placing. Like it or not I do think sales and airplay are a big determination in showing who is relevant currently in the music world.

[MaddysMuff]

I heard she was a bitch, but never an old african

[Guest bluejean]

She is still relevant.

Madonna is an idol because of who she is. She is multi faceted, people connect with her in so many different ways and so many different aspects of her personality. This is why she's kept the public's interest for so long.

You can't compare her to current pop stars. None of those people have even scratched the surface of their careers. They may be more relevant than Madonna to the youth of today, but how relevant will they be 27 years from now?

And this all started in a Britney Spears thread did it?

[Guest bluejean]

The whole cougar thing has always been a bit of a backhanded compliment. On the one hand, it means a woman is still hot after a certain age, but it also means she's still OLD. The backstory for all cougars, is that they're desperate, and pathetic in their drive to stay young, and attract young flesh. That's the entire premise of Cougar town in a nutshell.

As far as Madonna goes, hardly a week has gone by since her breakup with Guy, that the media hasn't obsessively scrutinized her relationship with Jesus, as nothing more than a midlife crisis. I remember one particularly sick story about her actually being jealous of her own daughters' youth. Totally vile.

To this day, people go on and on about Demi and Ashton, as if she was 100 years old. No one ever talks about the fact that Michael Douglas is actually older than both of Catherine Zeta Jones' parents. EVER.

They may make fun of it, but it's rather admirable that she can attract someone young and hot at her age. Not many women (or men) could.

Madonna obviously was very serious with Guy, she was analyzing life and felt she'd met her intellectual equal. But she moved on from that, and now she's alot more fun. She's obviously having fun, and even if Jesus is a midlife crisis or a "fling," why is it such a problem for people? Do people have to get more boring and serious as they get older? She's the same spirit inside that she was in the her 20's.

[Guest Danny86]

Prince had a hit album as recent as 2004. Would you have said he was relevant then?

Well... isn't he? He had his comeback in 2004 with a top 5 album, his first major performance in years (with Beyonce at Grammies), made a successful tour, I think on one list, not sure if Boxscore, Pollstar or Forbes he was #1, ahead of Madonna. Then in 2006 he got a #1 album without any radio play, performed on American Idol, in February 2007 he got the Superbowl performance which was named one of the best Halftime shows ever in the press, and not just because he was literally bathing in purple rain. Then he pissed record labels off when he gave away a CD for free with a newspaper, his O2 residency proved to be not only a huge success, but also trendsetting and this year he got the Target deal which was dubbed as the "future" for artists and his sentiments about record labels are now repeated by Madonna, not to mention all 4 albums in this period got favorable reviews and he even got some Grammies. That's quite a lot of things going on for someone who made zero dent in the business from 1997-2003 and kept releasing self-indulgent mess like The Rainbow Children... Dismissing all that by saying he had no single out there and his albums didn't break any ground is not exactly fair.

I still say that Madonna's new groundbreaking (as called by the press and the industry) record/tour deal is the testament to her relevancy. Any artist who has brains would sell their souls for something like that, because Madonna's future is sealed while theirs isn't. Selling loads of $0.99 singles in 2009 does not mean they will manage to do that a year later, neither that they have a stable place in the industry. I'm sure everyone in the pop business is aware of that these days, whether they are writing or producing songs themselves, or they are record label puppets. Also, why is a tour "beneath" a single or an album? Madonna's S&ST got better reviews in the US than RIT or CT did and none of them were going on about "why is this old bitch on tour again" or "why is she singing LIB or ROL again?" or "why can't she wear something else than black", neither they got offended when Madonna used the guitar...

I guess some just don't want to accept the industry is going in a different way now and "relevant" means something else now, or they don't like the route Madonna is following now. Saying fans who speak up for her are loons living in 1985 is rich coming from those who seem to act like things are still as if it was 1999 and want everything to be like they were when they discovered Madonna.

[cosmic_system]

Well... isn't he? He had his comeback in 2004 with a top 5 album, his first major performance in years (with Beyonce at Grammies), made a successful tour, I think on one list, not sure if Boxscore, Pollstar or Forbes he was #1, ahead of Madonna. Then in 2006 he got a #1 album without any radio play, performed on American Idol, in February 2007 he got the Superbowl performance which was named one of the best Halftime shows ever in the press, and not just because he was literally bathing in purple rain. Then he pissed record labels off when he gave away a CD for free with a newspaper, his O2 residency proved to be not only a huge success, but also trendsetting and this year he got the Target deal which was dubbed as the "future" for artists and his sentiments about record labels are now repeated by Madonna, not to mention all 4 albums in this period got favorable reviews and he even got some Grammies. That's quite a lot of things going on for someone who made zero dent in the business from 1997-2003 and kept releasing self-indulgent mess like The Rainbow Children... Dismissing all that by saying he had no single out there and his albums didn't break any ground is not exactly fair.

I still say that Madonna's new groundbreaking (as called by the press and the industry) record/tour deal is the testament to her relevancy. Any artist who has brains would sell their souls for something like that, because Madonna's future is sealed while theirs isn't. Selling loads of $0.99 singles in 2009 does not mean they will manage to do that a year later, neither that they have a stable place in the industry. I'm sure everyone in the pop business is aware of that these days, whether they are writing or producing songs themselves, or they are record label puppets. Also, why is a tour "beneath" a single or an album? Madonna's S&ST got better reviews in the US than RIT or CT did and none of them were going on about "why is this old bitch on tour again" or "why is she singing LIB or ROL again?" or "why can't she wear something else than black", neither they got offended when Madonna used the guitar...

I guess some just don't want to accept the industry is going in a different way now and "relevant" means something else now, or they don't like the route Madonna is following now. Saying fans who speak up for her are loons living in 1985 is rich coming from those who seem to act like things are still as if it was 1999 and want everything to be like they were when they discovered Madonna.

[GimmeSomeMo]

Unlike Madonna he hasn't consistently had global number one singles that equal or surpass the success of his hits from his "golden years".

[Skin]

I just dont understand why being "relevant" means connecting with teens and tweens? Who came up with that rule? I just think its a testament to our youth obsessed culture.

If being relevant means having your new song played on the radio 24/7 well then Madonna is not relevant.

If being relevant means still being able to sell out stadiums around the globe and being able to still release an album and have it jump into the top 5 biggest selling female albums around the globe for the year in a matter of weeks, then yes. Madonna is still at the top of her game.

[Kurt420]

2000- Music

2005- Hung Up

2008- 4 Minutes

All of those equal or surpass some of her classics like LAV, LAP and Vogue in terms of commercial success. I'm sorry that you either

a. didn't know that

b. can't take it

Disprove my facts! Go ahead...you won't because you can't!

[GimmeSomeMo]

2000- Music

2005- Hung Up

2008- 4 Minutes

All of those equal or surpass some of her classics like LAV, LAP and Vogue in terms of commercial success. I'm sorry that you either

a. didn't know that

b. can't take it

Disprove my facts! Go ahead...you won't because you can't!

wtf man :lmao:

[Ai Papi Si.]

Well... isn't he? He had his comeback in 2004 with a top 5 album, his first major performance in years (with Beyonce at Grammies), made a successful tour, I think on one list, not sure if Boxscore, Pollstar or Forbes he was #1, ahead of Madonna. Then in 2006 he got a #1 album without any radio play, performed on American Idol, in February 2007 he got the Superbowl performance which was named one of the best Halftime shows ever in the press, and not just because he was literally bathing in purple rain. Then he pissed record labels off when he gave away a CD for free with a newspaper, his O2 residency proved to be not only a huge success, but also trendsetting and this year he got the Target deal which was dubbed as the "future" for artists and his sentiments about record labels are now repeated by Madonna, not to mention all 4 albums in this period got favorable reviews and he even got some Grammies. That's quite a lot of things going on for someone who made zero dent in the business from 1997-2003 and kept releasing self-indulgent mess like The Rainbow Children... Dismissing all that by saying he had no single out there and his albums didn't break any ground is not exactly fair.

I still say that Madonna's new groundbreaking (as called by the press and the industry) record/tour deal is the testament to her relevancy. Any artist who has brains would sell their souls for something like that, because Madonna's future is sealed while theirs isn't. Selling loads of $0.99 singles in 2009 does not mean they will manage to do that a year later, neither that they have a stable place in the industry. I'm sure everyone in the pop business is aware of that these days, whether they are writing or producing songs themselves, or they are record label puppets. Also, why is a tour "beneath" a single or an album? Madonna's S&ST got better reviews in the US than RIT or CT did and none of them were going on about "why is this old bitch on tour again" or "why is she singing LIB or ROL again?" or "why can't she wear something else than black", neither they got offended when Madonna used the guitar...

I guess some just don't want to accept the industry is going in a different way now and "relevant" means something else now, or they don't like the route Madonna is following now. Saying fans who speak up for her are loons living in 1985 is rich coming from those who seem to act like things are still as if it was 1999 and want everything to be like they were when they discovered Madonna.

I don't consider sellout tours, as impressive as they may be, gauges of an audience's connection with the general public. Like Madonna said, you can't replace a live show. People are going to flock to it because of her name. That doesn't make her "relevant" in the way I personally have interpreted that word.

As that guy from Pink Is The New Blog said, Madonna isn't hungry anymore or interested in setting trends - AT THIS TIME. She's not dabbling in anything new or being especially innovative anymore with the way she presents her image. Her music seems to echo that as well (despite the the insulting nonsense that some fans come up with when they say "OH MADONNA'S MUSIC WAS NEVER INNOVATIVE, IT WAS LIGHT POP AND R&B FROM START TO FINISH"). I'm sorry but there's a big difference between a song like effing REVOLVER and a song like Die Another Day which was a mere 7 years ago. Right now Madonna is dividing fans because she's become especially focused on business and touring and less focused on being creative musically. Some fans are happy to settle for crap like Revolver, or throaway Celebration (and don't get me wrong, it's cute). I personally am left wondering why she's sounding this bored with her music right now. Is it because she's already accomplished and covered so much in her 26 year career? I don't know. But Madonna's career is not what it once was.

All this said, I still love her and I still support her and look forward to what she does because I am a fan and will continue to be forever. But I am happy to point out the facts. I don't see her musical devolution from (I'll throw in all mid 90s R&B song to prove my point that is has ZERO to do with me not wanting her to do R&B) Secret/Love Tried To Welcome Me/Human Nature to 4 Minutes/Candy Shop/Revolver as being an innocent "oh that's just what she feels like doing!" I see it as her really not having much to say.

Maybe Madonna's passion lies in touring right now, which she seems to consistently blow out of the water. I don't see how it makes a difference what reviews she got this time around. She got great reviews for all her tours because they were great tours. So do The Rolling Stones. What's your point?

And going back to Prince - I see his minor success in 2004 (and to a lesser extent, in 2006) as being the strength of his still existing fanbase. But let's not be ridiculous here. Prince may still be making music but his influence and hype vaporized long ago. There is nothing relevant about appearing on American Idol. THat just means he appeared on American Idol and the Super Bowl. Guess who else was once on American Idol. Jewel. Who cares? He's a big name because he held a piece of time that was very significant to pop music. Just like Madonna. Doesn't make him relevant in the same way Beyonce or Lady Godga currently are. Same for Madonna. All the stuff you said - the free CDs, the record label drama, the Grammy performance - how does any of that make him relevant?

[Kurt420]

wtf man

I do the same thing when I read your posts trying to discredit everything she's done after COADF because of your personal bias against her artistic direction. I mention 4M is a hit and it's "oh well that was because of Timbo and Justin. She had nothing to do with it." OK. I mention the tour being a smash "well...that's because everybody wants to hear the old music." OK. I mention HC being one of the biggest sellers in the world last year and it's "well that doesn't matter because on metacritic it only has a 65 and the OVERALL VIBE wasn't as good AND her diehard fanbase will buy anything." or something equally as stupid.....but OH KAY...whatever. I mention the fact that she gets talked about a lot in the press still and it's "OH well that's only because of her 22 year old boyfriend." WELL ALRIGHTY THEN. So basically what it boils down to is if you aren't personally feeling it you will find a way to discredit it no matter what. COMPLETELY ignoring the unarguable facts.

Honestly I think some of her fans wanted the HC/S&S era to flop commercially since they didn't like it much. I guess if it had flopped they figure Madonna will come to her senses and "get back on track". But that didn't happen, everything about the era was a success. The ONLY aspect that didn't equal the COADF era is critical acclaim, it was more mixed for HC than COADF.

[MaddysMuff]

I don't consider sellout tours, as impressive as they may be, gauges of an audience's connection with the general public. Like Madonna said, you can't replace a live show. People are going to flock to it because of her name. That doesn't make her "relevant" in the way I personally have interpreted that word.

As that guy from Pink Is The New Blog said, Madonna isn't hungry anymore or interested in setting trends - AT THIS TIME. She's not dabbling in anything new or being especially innovative anymore with the way she presents her image. Her music seems to echo that as well (despite the the insulting nonsense that some fans come up with when they say "OH MADONNA'S MUSIC WAS NEVER INNOVATIVE, IT WAS LIGHT POP AND R&B FROM START TO FINISH"). I'm sorry but there's a big difference between a song like effing REVOLVER and a song like Die Another Day which was a mere 7 years ago. Right now Madonna is dividing fans because she's become especially focused on business and touring and less focused on being creative musically. Some fans are happy to settle for crap like Revolver, or throaway Celebration (and don't get me wrong, it's cute). I personally am left wondering why she's sounding this bored with her music right now. Is it because she's already accomplished and covered so much in her 26 year career? I don't know. But Madonna's career is not what it once was.

All this said, I still love her and I still support her and look forward to what she does because I am a fan and will continue to be forever. But I am happy to point out the facts. I don't see her musical devolution from (I'll throw in all mid 90s R&B song to prove my point that is has ZERO to do with me not wanting her to do R&B) Secret/Love Tried To Welcome Me/Human Nature to 4 Minutes/Candy Shop/Revolver as being an innocent "oh that's just what she feels like doing!" I see it as her really not having much to say.

Maybe Madonna's passion lies in touring right now, which she seems to consistently blow out of the water. I don't see how it makes a difference what reviews she got this time around. She got great reviews for all her tours because they were great tours. So do The Rolling Stones. What's your point?

And going back to Prince - I see his minor success in 2004 (and to a lesser extent, in 2006) as being the strength of his still existing fanbase. But let's not be ridiculous here. Prince may still be making music but his influence and hype vaporized long ago. There is nothing relevant about appearing on American Idol. THat just means he appeared on American Idol and the Super Bowl. Guess who else was once on American Idol. Jewel. Who cares? He's a big name because he held a piece of time that was very significant to pop music. Just like Madonna. Doesn't make him relevant in the same way Beyonce or Lady Godga currently are. Same for Madonna. All the stuff you said - the free CDs, the record label drama, the Grammy performance - how does any of that make him relevant?

Spot on, Miguel!

[Kurt420]

I don't consider sellout tours, as impressive as they may be, gauges of an audience's connection with the general public. Like Madonna said, you can't replace a live show. People are going to flock to it because of her name. That doesn't make her "relevant" in the way I personally have interpreted that word.

As that guy from Pink Is The New Blog said, Madonna isn't hungry anymore or interested in setting trends - AT THIS TIME. She's not dabbling in anything new or being especially innovative anymore with the way she presents her image. Her music seems to echo that as well (despite the the insulting nonsense that some fans come up with when they say "OH MADONNA'S MUSIC WAS NEVER INNOVATIVE, IT WAS LIGHT POP AND R&B FROM START TO FINISH"). I'm sorry but there's a big difference between a song like effing REVOLVER and a song like Die Another Day which was a mere 7 years ago. Right now Madonna is dividing fans because she's become especially focused on business and touring and less focused on being creative musically. Some fans are happy to settle for crap like Revolver, or throaway Celebration (and don't get me wrong, it's cute). I personally am left wondering why she's sounding this bored with her music right now. Is it because she's already accomplished and covered so much in her 26 year career? I don't know. But Madonna's career is not what it once was.

All this said, I still love her and I still support her and look forward to what she does because I am a fan and will continue to be forever. But I am happy to point out the facts. I don't see her musical devolution from (I'll throw in all mid 90s R&B song to prove my point that is has ZERO to do with me not wanting her to do R&B) Secret/Love Tried To Welcome Me/Human Nature to 4 Minutes/Candy Shop/Revolver as being an innocent "oh that's just what she feels like doing!" I see it as her really not having much to say.

Maybe Madonna's passion lies in touring right now, which she seems to consistently blow out of the water. I don't see how it makes a difference what reviews she got this time around. She got great reviews for all her tours because they were great tours. So do The Rolling Stones. What's your point?

And going back to Prince - I see his minor success in 2004 (and to a lesser extent, in 2006) as being the strength of his still existing fanbase. But let's not be ridiculous here. Prince may still be making music but his influence and hype vaporized long ago. There is nothing relevant about appearing on American Idol. THat just means he appeared on American Idol and the Super Bowl. Guess who else was once on American Idol. Jewel. Who cares? He's a big name because he held a piece of time that was very significant to pop music. Just like Madonna. Doesn't make him relevant in the same way Beyonce or Lady Godga currently are. Same for Madonna. All the stuff you said - the free CDs, the record label drama, the Grammy performance - how does any of that make him relevant?

It's impossible for Madonna or Prince to have the same relevancy that Gaga and Beyonce have. They are 20 something "it" girls who are most likely at the beginnings of long careers. So no, she's not going to get the same kind of "buzz" that younger acts get beause that type thing can only happen to younger, "cool" acts. BUT Madonna shares (many times surpasses) them in terms of sales, airplay and gossip/buzz AND critical acclaim on a worldwide level. Last year Hard Candy was a bigger success WW than the latest albums of Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Britney Spears, Kid Rock, Alicia Keys, Pink, Kings Of Leon, Miley Cyrus, Jonas Brothers, Nickelback, Mariah Carey and Usher....just to name a few. Major corporations want her face to endorse their product. I would assume that's because they feel Madonna is RELEVANT enough to hopefully push more of their product off the shelves.

I'm sorry but irrelevant people don't have this MASSIVE of successes....they just don't. AGAIN...I'm not saying she's the "pulse" right now. But to call her completely irrelevant to current music, when her CURRENT music is bigger on a worldwide level than most acts named "relevant" (due to undefineable "buzz") in this thread is borderline stupid IMO.

Consider this, people are suggesting someone that has generated nearly half a BILLION dollars for the music/touring industry this past year is irrelevant to the current music scene. I'm sure some bigwigs at WB and LN would fail to agree.

[Guest Danny86]

I don't consider sellout tours, as impressive as they may be, gauges of an audience's connection with the general public. Like Madonna said, you can't replace a live show. People are going to flock to it because of her name. That doesn't make her "relevant" in the way I personally have interpreted that word.

In that case, why was Janet's tour a flop? She used to be a huge tour draw and like I said in one of the earliest posts in this thread, the RN tour was more likely bigger than BAT in terms of commercial success. If people flock to Madonna show because of her name, doesn't that mean she still has that IT that her contemporaries lost? And why is that not "relevant"?

Do you really think people in the biz think like that as fans on forums, who set fireworks for a #1 single but dismiss tour success of the big acts as something that comes by itself, as in Madonna's case, performing ITG and LAP? If that was so easy, why is it always the same 5 acts getting the huge touring success?

As that guy from Pink Is The New Blog said, Madonna isn't hungry anymore or interested in setting trends - AT THIS TIME. She's not dabbling in anything new or being especially innovative anymore with the way she presents her image. Her music seems to echo that as well (despite the the insulting nonsense that some fans come up with when they say "OH MADONNA'S MUSIC WAS NEVER INNOVATIVE, IT WAS LIGHT POP AND R&B FROM START TO FINISH"). I'm sorry but there's a big difference between a song like effing REVOLVER and a song like Die Another Day which was a mere 7 years ago. Right now Madonna is dividing fans because she's become especially focused on business and touring and less focused on being creative musically. Some fans are happy to settle for crap like Revolver, or throaway Celebration (and don't get me wrong, it's cute). I personally am left wondering why she's sounding this bored with her music right now. Is it because she's already accomplished and covered so much in her 26 year career? I don't know. But Madonna's career is not what it once was.

And there you are again, the usual "some fans are happy to SETTLE FOR CRAP"... WTF?! I get that for you "Die Another Day" is the absolute peak of her career (even though it actually brought NOTHING new FOR HER because it was the continuation of the Music album and I'm glad to reference Bad Robot with that) but why the bashing of those who enjoy her stuff now and ARE NOT FORCING THEMSELVES to do that?

Basically you're saying her output is not good enough for you and you're putting a = between that and "relevance". So if YOU personally feel she's not good enough, then no numbers and critical acclaim could be enough to balance that out to make her "relevant", is that correct?

All this said, I still love her and I still support her and look forward to what she does because I am a fan and will continue to be forever. But I am happy to point out the facts. I don't see her musical devolution from (I'll throw in all mid 90s R&B song to prove my point that is has ZERO to do with me not wanting her to do R&B) Secret/Love Tried To Welcome Me/Human Nature to 4 Minutes/Candy Shop/Revolver as being an innocent "oh that's just what she feels like doing!" I see it as her really not having much to say.

You're not pointing out any facts, just once again letting me know you don't like what she does now. I don't see how "Human Nature" can be a counter example when it reused the "express yourself" message and Madonna basically sang over a hip hop sample (and not saying that because of the R&B thing either), and it's hardly the first time with CS/4M/R that she sings nonsense or fun lyrics, the majority of the Music album is vapid lyrics and has no message... You bash me for saying she was always pop and R&B, but I say you're really overrating her past work if you claim she always had something to say. How many songs on TIC fall into that category? And are "Drowned World", "Mer Girl", "Paradise" or "Easy Ride" a typical representation of her work? And even I am bored of repeating this, but HC is not a message-less vapid album CS and 4M implies, but her singles were ALWAYS the accessible ones with rare examples.

And let me ask you this, what's the need of this "I still love her and support her but it's a fact her career is not the same anymore" attitude? Why are you shoving her down on your throat if she doesn't satisfy you anymore? And by saying she's not the same anymore, do you think that makes you an "objective" fan? Because this is the same attitude the same 5 people are trying to impose on those who are not like "oh I wish it was like the old days again" and is pretty tiresome at this point. You want to get impressed by Madonna the same way you did some years ago when you became a fan, but when she doesn't do that, you immediately say the problem is with her. No, you don't have to like her everything she does, and contrary to popular assumption, I don't like everything she does either. I'm not a huge fan of the "Celebration" song and for me it pales in comparison to anything on COADF and HC but I don't start thinking like "oh this is a lazy song, she's so bored now, why can't she care? what is she gonna happen? are the princesses really stealing her crown?"...

Maybe Madonna's passion lies in touring right now, which she seems to consistently blow out of the water. I don't see how it makes a difference what reviews she got this time around. She got great reviews for all her tours because they were great tours. So do The Rolling Stones. What's your point?

Because, why is it better if she gets great reviews (which is BUZZ) for an album, but not a show? A while ago you said "HC was one of those albums nobody cared for" but maybe, just maybe, at this point a tour gets more attention from the GENERAL PUBLIC than a CD? There aren't even pop albums anymore that get any attention anyway, so it's not even the gauge of relevance in any possible way by now. And actually she did get some trashing reviews for the RIT in the US and the S&ST in the UK so her tours are not universally acclaimed, but there definitely was an upward trend in the reviews of the 2008 S&ST US leg which was noted in the tour forum back then.

And going back to Prince - I see his minor success in 2004 (and to a lesser extent, in 2006) as being the strength of his still existing fanbase. But let's not be ridiculous here. Prince may still be making music but his influence and hype vaporized long ago. There is nothing relevant about appearing on American Idol. THat just means he appeared on American Idol and the Super Bowl. Guess who else was once on American Idol. Jewel. Who cares? He's a big name because he held a piece of time that was very significant to pop music. Just like Madonna. Doesn't make him relevant in the same way Beyonce or Lady Godga currently are. Same for Madonna. All the stuff you said - the free CDs, the record label drama, the Grammy performance - how does any of that make him relevant?

How is pushing forward the industry with new and groundbreaking deals NOT making anyone relevant? I think it's ridiculous to imply Madonna and Prince can get the biggest slice out of the industry BECAUSE they were huge in the 80s. And I don't see why any of that should come below kids playing a songs on their iPods on the way to school or you driving to work and hearing a song 10 times on radio while driving. Like I said, that's an ancient way of thinking when it comes to relevance, just because radio makes a hit for you (like, Mariah's "Obsessed") it won't be considered as a relevant thing for 2009.

Madonna would not be on the level she is today if it was all depended on the 15 huge hits she scored from 1984 to 1990. If she stopped making new stuff after 1990 and had to live on the TIC era hits forever, she'd obviously be still above Cyndi, Donna etc but would not be creating the buzz and earning trendsetting contracts for herself with that.

[Ai Papi Si.]

It's impossible for Madonna or Prince to have the same relevancy that Gaga and Beyonce have. They are 20 something "it" girls who are most likely at the beginnings of long careers. So no, she's not going to get the same kind of "buzz" that younger acts get beause that type thing can only happen to younger, "cool" acts. BUT Madonna shares (many times surpasses) them in terms of sales, airplay and gossip/buzz AND critical acclaim on a worldwide level. Last year Hard Candy was a bigger success WW than the latest albums of Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Britney Spears, Kid Rock, Alicia Keys, Pink, Kings Of Leon, Miley Cyrus, Jonas Brothers, Nickelback, Mariah Carey and Usher....just to name a few. Major corporations want her face to endorse their product. I would assume that's because they feel Madonna is RELEVANT enough to hopefully push more of their product off the shelves.

I'm sorry but irrelevant people don't have this MASSIVE of successes....they just don't. AGAIN...I'm not saying she's the "pulse" right now. But to call her completely irrelevant to current music, when her CURRENT music is bigger on a worldwide level than most acts named "relevant" (due to undefineable "buzz") in this thread is borderline stupid IMO.

Consider this, people are suggesting someone that has generated nearly half a BILLION dollars for the music/touring industry this past year is irrelevant to the current music scene. I'm sure some bigwigs at WB and LN would fail to agree.

Well unlike you, I don't break Madonna's relevancy down to numbers or chart positions. That to me means absolutely nothing. To me, Hard Candy's success lasted all but a few months. We never heard anything about it again. Glad that it sold well, though.

Relevant in the touring industry? ALways has been, probably always will be. Relevant in terms of still being able to sell a solid 4 million around the world? I guess. Good for her. But releasing a mere 2 videos for the album, making an oddly pathetic album sleeve, completely abandoning musical projects in favor of touring (which is fine!)just seems to me like her focus is somewhere else. I brought up Lady Gaga and Beyonce NOT because they have hit singles. I bring them up because they're contemporaries of Madonna who have generated a considerable amount of palpable buzz just by releasing great videos, putting a lot of work into the visuals, and really fixating on putting out the best possible product for the fans. And this is coming from someone who pretty much detests Lady Gaga's music.

I do think buzz is definable. Have we all forgotten what it was like before American Life came out? Madonna was "the pulse" right up until that moment. Things aren't the same anymore not because she's flopped a whole bunch of times. It's because she's not making much of an effort to build on the projects she's created like she used to. Even Music, with its 3 singles, had an "era" feel to it. She last did that with Confessions, only she released 1 good video and pretty much slept her way through the other 3. I mean, that's fine if she doesn't wanna make videos, but I'd rather her just pull a Trent Reznor and not make any at all if she hates doing them so much now. This kind of "brushing off" of the mediums she used to dominate is what makes her seem irrelevant to me. She's putting her efforts somewhere else.

[Guest Not4Pussies]

she is not hungry right now to be innovative/creative

she has nothing to say right now

she said it herself in an interview during confessions

that warner wanted her to go back into the studio and make another album

she said she wasn't too sure what she wanted to do, that she had ran out of ideas.

the woman needs a break and she needs to be motivated and inspired to give it her all

again for the music

[loomer]

I'm sorry but there's a big difference between a song like effing REVOLVER and a song like Die Another Day which was a mere 7 years ago.

Not really. Both tuneless crap filled with autotune.

[MaddysMuff]

she is not hungry right now to be innovative/creative

she has nothing to say right now

she said it herself in an interview during confessions

that warner wanted her to go back into the studio and make another album

she said she wasn't too sure what she wanted to do, that she had ran out of ideas.

the woman needs a break and she needs to be motivated and inspired to give it her all

again for the music

Yes! She is so jaded at this point and I don't blame her.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

she is not hungry right now to be innovative/creative

she has nothing to say right now

she said it herself in an interview during confessions

that warner wanted her to go back into the studio and make another album

she said she wasn't too sure what she wanted to do, that she had ran out of ideas.

the woman needs a break and she needs to be motivated and inspired to give it her all

again for the music

fuck off.

you need a break and you need to get motivated. shes done more in a month than youve done in your entire life.

[loomer]

I get that for you "Die Another Day" is the absolute peak of her career (even though it actually brought NOTHING new FOR HER because it was the continuation of the Music album and I'm glad to reference Bad Robot with that)

This is true. DAD had the exact same chord sequence as "Music".

[Guest Danny86]

Well unlike you, I don't break Madonna's relevancy down to numbers or chart positions. That to me means absolutely nothing. To me, Hard Candy's success lasted all but a few months. We never heard anything about it again. Glad that it sold well, though.

Relevant in the touring industry? ALways has been, probably always will be. Relevant in terms of still being able to sell a solid 4 million around the world? I guess. Good for her. But releasing a mere 2 videos for the album, making an oddly pathetic album sleeve, completely abandoning musical projects in favor of touring (which is fine!)just seems to me like her focus is somewhere else. I brought up Lady Gaga and Beyonce NOT because they have hit singles. I bring them up because they're contemporaries of Madonna who have generated a considerable amount of palpable buzz just by releasing great videos, putting a lot of work into the visuals, and really fixating on putting out the best possible product for the fans. And this is coming from someone who pretty much detests Lady Gaga's music.

I do think buzz is definable. Have we all forgotten what it was like before American Life came out? Madonna was "the pulse" right up until that moment. Things aren't the same anymore not because she's flopped a whole bunch of times. It's because she's not making much of an effort to build on the projects she's created like she used to. Even Music, with its 3 singles, had an "era" feel to it. She last did that with Confessions, only she released 1 good video and pretty much slept her way through the other 3. I mean, that's fine if she doesn't wanna make videos, but I'd rather her just pull a Trent Reznor and not make any at all if she hates doing them so much now. This kind of "brushing off" of the mediums she used to dominate is what makes her seem irrelevant to me. She's putting her efforts somewhere else.

This is confirming what I say. You're missing the eras and you're blaming that on Madonna, ignoring that things can't be like what they were. Gaga HAD to do the era and visual stuff because she's a NEW artist breaking in and has record label backing to achieve that. But it's weird to expect Madonna to continue with all that just because it's always been like that. Her realizing the need of change is actually a sign of relevance. She is NOT abandoning musical projects if she BUILDS A TOUR AROUND THE RECORD! I know it's a matter of opinion, but come on, I get more joy from a 2 hour long Madonna show than 3-4-5 Madonna videos that can be watched on the pc screen.

she is not hungry right now to be innovative/creative

she has nothing to say right now

she said it herself in an interview during confessions

that warner wanted her to go back into the studio and make another album

she said she wasn't too sure what she wanted to do, that she had ran out of ideas.

the woman needs a break and she needs to be motivated and inspired to give it her all

again for the music

Madonna not taking a break because

1) She's not an indie artist and has a record contract to fulfill

2) She does not want to.

The only time she took a real break was when it was all about Evita and her daughter. Otherwise it's been non stop.

[MaddysMuff]

fuck off.

you need a break and you need to get motivated. shes done more in a month than youve done in your entire life.

I really don't get why you act this way. Why are you saying he isn't motivated just because he doesn't resemble Madonna's drive? It's funny, because if we want to talk about someone who has no motivation.........

[Guest Not4Pussies]

fuck off.

you need a break and you need to get motivated. shes done more in a month than youve done in your entire life.

you are right. i am gonna take a break. a break from madonna

ill always love the woman, her music and what she represents to me.

never gonna be over her, she will always be my lucky star

but right now she isnt doing it for me

and there are artists out there right now who are.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

I really don't get why you act this way. Why are you saying he isn't motivated just because he doesn't resemble Madonna's drive? It's funny, because if we want to talk about someone who has no motivation.........

well, thats funny that you mention that. i find that madonna fans want to 'compete' or fulfill things that she does in some weird fantasy that one day they will be friends or even if its just theyre madonna-like. thats the power of madonna - shes very potent.

nobody wants a carbon copy of themselves or a wannabe. be yourself has always been madonnas message. look who she hangs with - gwyneth, an indecisive libra, ingrid - a chain smoker. she marrys smokers and drunks. all the people in her life are kind of the exact opposite of madonna. theyre not all macrobiotic, militant work out freaks with a puritan american work ethic and values.

opposites attract, paula.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

you are right. i am gonna take a break. a break from madonna

ill always love the woman, her music and what she represents to me.

never gonna be over her, she will awlays be my lucky star

but right now she isnt doing it for me

and there are artists out there right now who are.

thats lovely and i appreciate your honesty and think its a great idea. go to to the people that are floating your boat at the moment. because im being very talkative today, ive held my tongue for quite some time and its just awful coming to place where one loves and appreciates someone and all we see and hear is malcontent.

www.joanne.com/forum

[MaddysMuff]

thats lovely and i appreciate your honesty and think its a great idea. go to to the people that are floating your boat at the moment. because im being very talkative today, ive held my tongue for quite some time and its just awful coming to place where one loves and appreciates someone and all we see and hear is malcontent.

www.joanne.com/forum

It's because Madonna has been malcontent.