Madonna's relevancy

[MaddysMuff]

Well what IS relevant? Yes she had two major hits but she also had the most songs that didnt chart on the Hot 100 in her career. Yes she sells out stadiums but so do the Rolling Stones. I dont think sales is what counts here. Does Madonna MATTER? Does her work have IMPACT? Does she get talked about (and not about her 22 yo boy toy or her adoptions)? Does she influence popular culture? Is she part of the zeitgeist? Is her music part of peoples lives? Thats what I think determines relevance. Loony proclamations that the sun shines out of her ass are fine but lets look at things objectively for a second. Is Madonna IMPORTANT in the music world now?

Everyone talks about her. Why is it not relevant for her to be talked about bc she has a young bf or her adoptions? Those are a huge piece of her life. If she didn't matter, no one would talk about her. But everyone does! Get that straight.

However, does she make great music? Not in 4 years.

[Kurt420]

Erm, yes it does! To a certain extent, it absolutely does matter what the kids think because that's the nature of it in the music industry. And Madonna has always been a pop artist, so the youth element is very important.

And I'm sorry but you're wrong about Madonna 'outdoing' her peers in every other front apart from column inches. But again, this is not the point at all, and I hate the way some of you have to bring it into the discussion, so I won't go there.

God, it's like going round and round in circles here...

It's not that difficult to understand. You are saying that someone who had one of the top five selling albums in the world last year, one of the biggest hits of her career and the highest grossing tour ever by a solo artist, who has generated millions of dollars for the music industry this past year, not to mention LV and D&G having her face endorse their products in the hopes it will help them sell more is irrelevant because she's not on the tips of the kiddies tongues. I get it. I just don't agree with your definition of relevance I guess.

Again I'm not saying she's the it girl or the most influential she's been in her career or anything like that. I'm just saying it is absolutely ABSURD to suggest that given the above facts Madonna is irrelevant.

[Lymon]

I Will Accept that "Madonna Isn't The Talk of the Town like She used to be."

But To Say She's Lost ALL Relevancy is Just Not True.

She's a Bad Bitch Regardless, And Her Popularity with EVERYONE ELSE Really doesn't Matter (To Me at least. )

That's how I feel. She may not be on the radio/in the media 24/7 like she was in the 80's/early 90's, but she is still one of the most well-known forces ever in music. That may not be "relevant" when compared to today's music scene, but it's sure as hell influential.

[Mattress]

Everyone talks about her. Why is it not relevant for her to be talked about bc she has a young bf or her adoptions? Those are a huge piece of her life. If she didn't matter, no one would talk about her. But everyone does! Get that straight.

However, does she make great music? Not in 4 years.

*sassy neck roll indicating agreement*

[afrolito]

So the answer is to turn into a pulled, puffy cliche? And I dont think her legs akimbo ways of the past year or so make her sexy. Rather kind of desperate and ridiculous. As far as her relationship with Jesus as you said no one knows whats going on but I cant see how a 22 year old could be in love with anyone, much less someone old enough to be their mother. And certainly her flying him around the world first class, getting her designer friends to use him and giving him a taste of the high life on her own dime certainly isnt helping.

That right there is you projecting your own personal views onto Jesus, and all other 22year olds. You can only speak for yourself. Why is it so hard to believe they could actually be in love...or just lust? Your statement is just pure ageism at it's worst. Madonna may be old enough to be his mom, but she's not, and she's certainly not some dried up old hag, Jesus can only fuck in the dark. Most 22yr olds would kill for a body like hers....when they aren't skarfing down a super sized meal at McDonalds.

She's helping him with his career. So what? Powerful men do the same thing everyday, and no one writes essays about how pathetic, desperate, and irrelevant they've become. If the criticism Madonna receives was more egalitarian, then I wouldn't take issue, but the intense focus on her age and perceived lack of relevance is just disingenuous....and frankly full of shit.

Madonna isn't the only Hollywood star to go under the knife, and she won't be the last. People want her to look like a flawless goddess, but when she does something to maintain it, we criticize....yet there are countless threads here dedicated to her hideous hands, veiny arms, and puffy cheeks on a near daily basis

I personally think she looked her glorious best during the confessions era, but those Hard Candy outtakes probably scared her straight to a surgeons office. If whatever she's done has made her feel better, then it's all good.

And anyone who thinks Angelica Huston has never had work done, I have a bridge across the Hudson for sale.

[Kurt420]

Timalands and Justins music was on the radio last year in America. You cant POSSIBLY be THAT naive. And yes Madonna has a MASSIVE fanbase but that has nothing to do with her being a VIBRANT, INFLUENTIAL force in pop culture. And Gagas outfits are an extension of her art. Madonnas brazilian 'model' is just her midlife crisis. And GaGa has pretty much CREATED the genre of music popular right now from the Sugababes to Rihanna to everyone queuing outside RedOnes door. Lastly, why is this such a big deal to you? Why is it so important that MADONNA IS RELEVANT? Does it lessen your enjoyment of her if she isnt?

Well this is a Madonna discussion so HOW NOVEL to want to discuss her relevancy when it's suggested she has none. It's not important, it's interesting to see why her fans think she's not though. Go figure it's mostly the same ones who just so happened not to be too happy with her recently.

You're missing the point. Whether they are writing about Gaga's clothes or Madonna's boyfriend. They are writing about these things because they assume people care to read about it because of who they are writing about. That would mean they are RELEVANT. If you would give up your desperate devil's advocate act for 5 seconds you could see that perhaps.

What genre has Gaga created?? LOL Please enlighten me dear. She makes generic dance pop....her ACT may be considered somewhat forward (although that's another discussion too) but the music itself is NOTHING but run of the mill pop. Don't delude yourself.

[IsaacHarris]

That's how I feel. She may not be on the radio/in the media 24/7 like she was in the 80's/early 90's, but she is still one of the most well-known forces ever in music. That may not be "relevant" when compared to today's music scene, but it's sure as hell influential.

Yes. And Being Influential is More Important Than being Relevant.

Relevancy Changes over Time.

Oh... Where Was I...

"I'VE GOT TO GIVE IT UUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!

I'VE GOT TO LET IT GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH GAGA!!!

OH BRTINEY!!!!!

IV'E GOT TO GIIIIIIIIVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE IIT UPPPPPP!!!!"

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

No one said Angelica didn't have work done i just like the way she carries herself.

[Nightshade]

So what is YOUR definition of relevance? Actually I think Miley Cyrus is a good example. She sells by the shitload but I really dont consider her influential or relevant in any way.

For me, "relevance in pop culture" is a combination of things.

1. Social component - is the subject still talked about fairly frequently (either positively or negatively) in current pop culture headlines (blogs, gossip publications, etc.)? And do they still affect the culture in some way - whether it be breaking new boundaries, affecting political change, or (whether inadvertently or not) tackling social taboos?

2. Financial component - is the subject still capable of being a monetary force in the industry? Do they have significant negotiating power in their field?

3. Creative component - is the subject producing new work that isn't based on simply milking their nostalgia factor (a Vegas residency, or countless compilation after compilation of the same repackaging of hits)?

I certainly would argue that Madonna still has these things. I admit this trifecta may have a shakey leg or two - I realize she's not the #1 choice on the iPod for most teenagers, but no one is in that place for very long. And when she is mentioned in the press, it is more often for who she is dating (Jesus) or adopting than for her music or performance (however, that has largely been the case since 1985).

I am actually kind of surprised that people still say Britney is relevant because she had a big iTunes debut. Sales-wise, yes. Britney is still a force to be reckoned with. However, I heard GaGa mention David Bowie and Madonna as her templates (among others). I don't hear many acts cite Britney as a big influence. I think Britters brings some good pop music to the table, but not much else.

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

I don't hear many acts cite Britney as a big influence.

Miley and Duff did

Oh BritBrit

[MaddysMuff]

That right there is you projecting your own personal views onto Jesus, and all other 22year olds. You can only speak for yourself. Why is it so hard to believe they could actually be in love...or just lust? Your statement is just pure ageism at it's worst. Madonna may be old enough to be his mom, but she's not, and she's certainly not some dried up old hag, Jesus can only fuck in the dark. Most 22yr olds would kill for a body like hers....when they aren't skarfing down a super sized meal at McDonalds.

She's helping him with his career. So what? Powerful men do the same thing everyday, and no one writes essays about how pathetic, desperate, and irrelevant they've become. If the criticism Madonna receives was more egalitarian, then I wouldn't take issue, but the intense focus on her age and perceived lack of relevance is just disingenuous....and frankly full of shit.

Madonna isn't the only Hollywood star to go under the knife, and she won't be the last. People want her to look like a flawless goddess, but when she does something to maintain it, we criticize....yet there are countless threads here dedicated to her hideous hands, veiny arms, and puffy cheeks on a near daily basis

I personally think she looked her glorious best during the confessions era, but those Hard Candy outtakes probably scared her straight to a surgeons office. If whatever she's done has made her feel better, then it's all good.

And anyone who thinks Angelica Huston has never had work done, I have a bridge across the Hudson for sale.

Rock on, man. Never thought I'd agree with you several posts in a row.

She was gorgeous Confessions era. Her best ever look.

[MaddysMuff]

For me, "relevance in pop culture" is a combination of things.

1. Social component - is the subject still talked about fairly frequently (either positively or negatively) in current pop culture headlines (blogs, gossip publications, etc.)? And do they still affect the culture in some way - whether it be breaking new boundaries, affecting political change, or (whether inadvertently or not) tackling social taboos?

2. Financial component - is the subject still capable of being a monetary force in the industry? Do they have significant negotiating power in their field?

3. Creative component - is the subject producing new work that isn't based on simply milking their nostalgia factor (a Vegas residency, or countless compilation after compilation of the same repackaging of hits)?

I certainly would argue that Madonna still has these things. I admit this trifecta may have a shakey leg or two - I realize she's not the #1 choice on the iPod for most teenagers, but no one is in that place for very long. I am actually kind of surprised that people still say Britney is relevant because she had a big iTunes debut. Sales-wise, yes. Britney is still a force to be reckoned with. However, I heard GaGa mention David Bowie and Madonna as her templates (among others). I don't hear many acts cite Britney as a big influence. I think Britters brings some good pop music to the table, but not much else.

10 years from now ppl will cite Britney as an influence. Even though the girl has no opinion or say in the production of her music. They will simply because the tide has passed and it's time to give props.

Gaga cites those acts in an attempt to be relevant. Will it work? Only time will tell.

[neutrocks]

Oh, this is getting to become a "contest" of sorts. Isn't it sad that some are at this point in the thread taking pot shots at people and other artists to prove Madonna is far more relevant. Lady Ga Ga has been brought up many times, so I guess it's fair for me to say that as much as I think she is great and yes very talented, Madonna is still the queen here. Why is that? Because she's worked 20 some more years than all the others people compared her to. Maybe Lady Ga Ga will be around just as long and I hope she is. I really do enjoy her work, but even then, she is her own entertainer in her own right. I don't need to bash another artist to prove Madonna is anymore relevant. She obviously is relevant because if not, no one wouldn't be talking about her. Maybe there are aspects of her career which isn't as relevant as the past, but her persona and her music and her status in the entertainment industry is still quite relevant. It's not like Madonna is performing only GREATEST HITS tours. She's performing new work which a lot of people are enjoying. People see her as a great entertainer and touring act. And fortunately, that is where the money is. And while so many are focused on the influence artists have on the youth, what about all those fans who grew up with Madonna? Some were nearly her age if not older when she emerged. I know a lot of the Wannabee fans abandoned her as quick as they celebrated her, but there are a lot of fans out their who still appreciate her. And I can't see why her older fans can't also influence what is considered the youth market?

[Guest Not4Pussies]

from pinkisthenewblog

"You know, say what you will about Madonna — whether you love her or hate her — you cannot deny that the woman knows what she wants and gets what she wants … no matter what it is that she wants. From the start of her career, her hunger to conquer the world has kept her on point and allowed her to carve out a legendary career. Because she now has everything that she wants, she’s not as hungry anymore and, therefore, isn’t as innovative as she used to be. While I would love for Madonna to be the iconic trendsetter that she is known to be for years to come, I just don’t know that she can really do that anymore … which is why, I think, she is looking to the next generation to take up the reins..."

[Kurt420]

So what is YOUR definition of relevance? Actually I think Miley Cyrus is a good example. She sells by the shitload but I really dont consider her influential or relevant in any way.

See you let your own opinion of things cloud the facts. Saying Miley Cyrus isn't relevant now is ABSURD!! She's definitely an "it" girl right now and is topping the charts. Influential?? Not so much...but who knows what the future holds.

[loomer]

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Matt Lauer is hot

lmfao @ Britney Pears

Funny she talked of Britney and Christina there and that article, when she ended up working with them later that year

[Nightshade]

Miley and Duff did

Oh BritBrit

Is that many?

[loomer]

She was gorgeous Confessions era. Her best ever look.

That was when a lot of speculation about her having surgery started, but not obvious work like the cheek era

Though I also heard some say she had a facelift at about age 36 after she started looking rough in 93-94

[Skin]

Matt Lauer is hot

Yes. Yes he is and I always say I feel weird saying that because one of my uncles looks so much like him.

[Skin]

That was when a lot of speculation about her having surgery started, but not obvious work like the cheek era

Though I also heard some say she had a facelift at about age 36 after she started looking rough in 93-94

I dont know about lifts in her 30s. I personally doubt that but it was obvious she was starting to do SOMETHING during the Confessions era to look more fresh in the face but it still looked natural and you wouldnt have noticed unless you followed her 24/7 like we do. Now there is no getting around it though. Its obvious to anyone that the woman has had work done.

[Guest SuperBriGuy]

I dont know about lifts in her 30s. I personally doubt that but it was obvious she was starting to do SOMETHING during the Confessions era to look more fresh in the face but it still looked natural and you wouldnt have noticed unless you followed her 24/7 like we do. Now there is no getting around it though. Its obvious to anyone that the woman has had work done.

And you KNEW that she was gearing up for it when she made that comment back in '03 or '04...the one where she said she wasn't against having work done but she wasn't going to broadcast it to every one. I was like "Homegirl's about to get some shit done." And I agree with what you said about her look during the Confessions era...it was a marked improvement, she looked lovely.

[HolidayGuy]

Because of everything she's done in her work- you know, the ACCLAIM and CULTURAL ENRICHNESS- she forever will hold the stature she does. That's more important than being considered "relevant" in regards to fitting in with what it going on at the very moment in mainstream music. If she crafts an album that fits in with the best of her work, then,m yes, she will artisitcally relevant for the current time. Hard Candy didn't do that; COADF did to a certain extent and while it did OK in terms of U.S. success, it wasn't a ROL-like commercial success (nor a critical/artistic one).

Whether she can come up with a grand album, a la LAP or ROL again? I wouldn't count her out. Bob Dylan has had albums in his later years that were just as well-received as his best. Maybe she will find some source of creative inspiration and wow people again.

[Knocka]

That right there is you projecting your own personal views onto Jesus, and all other 22year olds. You can only speak for yourself. Why is it so hard to believe they could actually be in love...or just lust? Your statement is just pure ageism at it's worst. Madonna may be old enough to be his mom, but she's not, and she's certainly not some dried up old hag, Jesus can only fuck in the dark. Most 22yr olds would kill for a body like hers....when they aren't skarfing down a super sized meal at McDonalds.

She's helping him with his career. So what? Powerful men do the same thing everyday, and no one writes essays about how pathetic, desperate, and irrelevant they've become. If the criticism Madonna receives was more egalitarian, then I wouldn't take issue, but the intense focus on her age and perceived lack of relevance is just disingenuous....and frankly full of shit.

Madonna isn't the only Hollywood star to go under the knife, and she won't be the last. People want her to look like a flawless goddess, but when she does something to maintain it, we criticize....yet there are countless threads here dedicated to her hideous hands, veiny arms, and puffy cheeks on a near daily basis

I personally think she looked her glorious best during the confessions era, but those Hard Candy outtakes probably scared her straight to a surgeons office. If whatever she's done has made her feel better, then it's all good.

And anyone who thinks Angelica Huston has never had work done, I have a bridge across the Hudson for sale.

Great post

Of course she's relevant.

END.

You're welcome.

[Guest]

Her relevancy really is not relevant to me. I really don't rely on other peoples opinions to justify my love of her. All this GAGA and BRITNEY are a threat talk is actually hilarious. A threat to what exactly? Maybe GAGA is going to make a time machine and go back 30 years in order to destroy Madonna before she starts on her path to making her massive body of work. Or maybe Britney will pioneer a brainwashing technique that will make Madonna forgotten. These 2 girls terrify me.

[Guest]

If people are talking about you, you are relevant. People still discuss Madonna, therefore she is still of intrest and relevancy. I mean when was the last time Cyndi Lauper or Chaka Khan made headlines or even magazine columns?

This whole thing could be discussed even broader about Madonna's peers too, Kylie, Whitney, Mariah. I mean kids arent the ones often listening to them yet I wouldn't deem any of them irrelevant. I suppose it all comes down to your own perspective. Plus as a little side note I know heaps of teens who still listen to Madonna, I mean on this forum alone there are alot of people under 20 on here; e.g Madfan, myself, SoUnusual, Hot revolver etc...

[Lucky guy]

That was when a lot of speculation about her having surgery started, but not obvious work like the cheek era

Though I also heard some say she had a facelift at about age 36 after she started looking rough in 93-94

In my opinion she started doing non-surgical stuff around AL. She looked younger in the AL era than she had during the Music and DWT era. Partly this was due to weight gain, but her facial skin was definitely smoother. Apearances like the British Hall of Fame she looked amazing, and there was the Sin City premiere with those funny under eye markings.

I think the pre-Confessions facelift is pretty undeniable -half her face was GONE. If you look at the second lot of H&M photos and compare them to the Music era, that loose skin around the jaw has just completely gone; she's tight as a drum. In my opinion it didn't really suit her -it made her face a bit unbalanced -a little ET like. Of course the loons still deny it like fury.

It was only when the cheeky cheeky era hit that they had to stfu, because there's no denying that. In my opinion if she was going to fill her face with some substance I would have liked her to spread some lower down to get that heart shaped face she used to have, with the cheeks less enormous and the lower face less thin. But I still think it does something for her.

[Guest Danny86]

See you let your own opinion of things cloud the facts. Saying Miley Cyrus isn't relevant now is ABSURD!! She's definitely an "it" girl right now and is topping the charts. Influential?? Not so much...but who knows what the future holds.

Come on, the message should be clear now. It only matters if an artist is selling out venues and scoring #1 hits if she's PERSONALLY loved by said poster.

And you just know the same people would say Madonna was not relevant in 1994-1995 either, even though she scored her longest running #1 and her album sales improved from the previous (which never happened for certain not-so-relevant artists). Or is that not true? Some say laying down vocals to record a Bjork-imitation track was one of the most original things she's ever done, so you can't tell...

If she crafts an album that fits in with the best of her work, then,m yes, she will artisitcally relevant for the current time. Hard Candy didn't do that; COADF did to a certain extent and while it did OK in terms of U.S. success, it wasn't a ROL-like commercial success (nor a critical/artistic one).

That sounds like mixing up your own taste, commercial success and critics' opinion. While HC didn't sell bucketloads in the US, I think at this point narrowing it down to that (and to critics who could not go further than "Madonna relinquished control") is not fair, considering there are albums by established and young artists struggling to outsell HC these days. Practically none of the current albums are getting as much attention as they used to in the 80s or 90s because of the ways of the industry, it's all about singles and I doubt it's Madonna's own fault if radio only plays 1 single during each era at most, while Miley, Britney, Katy etc get more.

Even if she recorded another LAP or ROL only to win back those in this thread who based their reply on them not liking what Madonna did in the past 2 years, it's doubtful that album could sell more, get more attention or radio play.

[MaddysMuff]

In my opinion she started doing non-surgical stuff around AL. She looked younger in the AL era than she had during the Music and DWT era. Partly this was due to weight gain, but her facial skin was definitely smoother. Apearances like the British Hall of Fame she looked amazing, and there was the Sin City premiere with those funny under eye markings.

I think the pre-Confessions facelift is pretty undeniable -half her face was GONE. If you look at the second lot of H&M photos and compare them to the Music era, that loose skin around the jaw has just completely gone; she's tight as a drum. In my opinion it didn't really suit her -it made her face a bit unbalanced -a little ET like. Of course the loons still deny it like fury.

It was only when the cheeky cheeky era hit that they had to stfu, because there's no denying that. In my opinion if she was going to fill her face with some substance I would have liked her to spread some lower down to get that heart shaped face she used to have, with the cheeks less enormous and the lower face less thin. But I still think it does something for her.

You must be a riot to hang out with.

[SkyHigh76]

Is Madonna still relevent? Let's see...

Her most recent world tour grossed over $400 million.

Last year,she had one of the biggest hit singles of her career ("4 Minutes").

Last year,she was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Her albums routinely go to Number One in dozens of countries.

Funny how the younger artists (who are supposedly more "relevent" than Madonna) can't seem to have a hugely successful tour like Madonna does every few years.Beyonce's recent tour played many one-nighters in major cities.Mariah and Janet don't even bother touring anymore because no one goes to their shows anyway.

Funny how the younger artists (who are supposedly more "relevent" than Madonna) don't make as much money as she does.

Funny how many of the younger artists (who are supposedly more "relevent" than Madonna) are basically just doing the same things that Madonna already did back in the 80s.Let's be honest,Lady Gaga is just another Madonna imitator.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I see both sides of the argument. Only in death (see how Michael Jackson dying made him hotter than he'd been since Bad, if not Thriller) could Madonna ever reach the zenith she was in in 1985 or 1990, but she's transitioned nicely into an elder stateswoman and legend. She still holds her own, but frankly, it's no longer her world in 2009... it's Beyonce, Gaga and Britney's. And there's nothing wrong with that, every generation has its superstars. Madonna hanging around today is like Barbra still holding her end in the 1980's even though Madonna and Whitney were the new darlings (and we saw Babs' latest outsell Mariah's album). Madonna is turning in sorts into Barbra Streisand (who has never reclaimed the level of fame she had in the 60's and 70's but yet she is a respected vet who still has a very vocal loyal fanbase), the same way U2 are starting to turn into The Rolling Stones in a sea of Coldplay's and The Killers the way The Stones became elder statesmen when groups like U2 and REM started breaking out in the mainstream.

I don't see any reason to hate the current stars. Sadly I know plenty of fags who won't listen to Gaga or Beyonce simply because they represent a different generation than the one they're stuck in.