Madonna and US Radio

[Etips]

There’s no question that Madonna’s age hinders her reception at top 40 radio. But is it just that? Or it is it that her typical music style just doesn’t resonate with station managers—and US radio listeners? Personally, I think it’s both…plus fatally sluggish/haphazard promotion from WB. So many are looking forward to Mariah turning the big 4-0, assuming that when it happens radio will finally get off her straps, but I have a feeling that when she is 45+, she’ll be like Elton/Cher/Aretha/Tina—scoring the last of her number one’s.

Despite all the critical and commercial acclaim the album received, I can remember there being a feeling that the Ray of Light singles faced a tougher road because of how dissimilar they were compared to everything else on the radio. I also recall when “Sorry” was the number one song in the world, someone wrote Chart Beat’s Fred Bronson, asking why it was huge everywhere else but America. His answer wasn’t that Madonna was too old for radio, but instead that bombastic dance music like it wasn’t “in” with US radio listeners.

So, in your opinion, what is (or has been) the bigger barrier between Madonna and US radio: her age, or is her music just stylistically out of sync with programmers/listeners?

[Chuck82]

I was just talking about this earlier with a friend. I am personally glad they don't play her music, for me the radio ruins songs. They play the same shit over and over and over. It really makes me hate the radio.

And it just keeps her music kinda sacred and fresh ..in a weird way , anyway forgive me I'm rambling

[Guest Coked Up Baby Boy]

for me the radio ruins songs. They play the same shit over and over and over. It really makes me hate the radio.

That's the main reason i DON'T listen to the radio. Same 5 songs for months on end, it's awful. I wish i could listen to my fav radio hosts WITHOUT the songs. Ugh.

[neutrocks]

There's no question that Madonna's age hinders her reception at top 40 radio. But is it just that? Or it is it that her typical music style just doesn't resonate with station managers—and US radio listeners? Personally, I think it's both…plus fatally sluggish/haphazard promotion from WB. So many are looking forward to Mariah turning the big 4-0, assuming that when it happens radio will finally get off her straps, but I have a feeling that when she is 45+, she'll be like Elton/Cher/Aretha—scoring the last of her number one's.

Despite all the critical and commercial acclaim the album received, I can remember there being a feeling that the Ray of Light singles faced a tougher road because of how dissimilar they were compared to everything else on the radio. I also recall when "Sorry" was out and was the number one song in the world, someone wrote Chart Beat's Fred Bronson, asking why it was huge everywhere else, but America. His answer wasn't that Madonna was too old for radio, but instead that bombastic dance music like it wasn't "in" with US radio listeners.

So, in your opinion, what is (or has been) the bigger barrier between Madonna and US radio: her age, or is her music just stylistically out of sync with programmers/listeners?

I think you're pretty much right in what you say. Her age does play a big factor though (as you pointed out). I also feel that her being a "gay Icon" doesn't help her get much airplay on U.S. radio because radio is still quite conservative compared to other media outlets in the U.S.

I agree that her style is less accepted as well, but HARD CANDY did have a number of tracks that could have fit well on radio. I'm sure "Beat Goes On" would have probably gotten a better run if it was released as the second single rather "Give it 2 Me". I also thought that "Devil.." could have done well if given the chance. Those are exactly the type of songs you would hear on U.S. radio whether you favor the songs or not.

But in the end, I think it's just a combination of her age and radio being quite conservative. Which doesn't make much sense since a lot of the music played is far from conservative. I also believe U.S. radio prefers to target an audience of teenagers and females between the age of 20 to 30.

I don't even listen to radio anymore unless I have no other choice and wish to listen to something. So it's not a big deal to me to hear Madonna on radio. But I do realize that popular music is based on what is played on radio. The nice thing about Madonna is that she still sells. Maybe nothing compared to what she did in the 80's and early 90's, but the fact that her singles sales still chart is quite an accomplishment especially on the DANCE charts.

[Yummy]

I think after the American Life fiasco radio completely took a ban on her....even after the radio smashes that were "Music" and "Don't Tell Me"....Now with iTunes literally deciding radio playlists, she still has the power to comeback strong..(e.g. "4 Minutes")

[mtzlplk]

it's definitely her age... i think those radio mistake the meaning of "TOP 40"

[Etips]

I just wanted to add that so many like to say that it was the two Tim's who got “4 Minutes” on the radio, but would their presence on songs like “Sorry” or “Jump” (with the same production, style) made those songs be as well received? I think songs like 4M and “Take a Bow” are harrowing examples that radio will play Madonna when she gives them something not so contrary to everything else on their playlist. I think Madonna's gypsy attitude when it comes to her music often scares or underwhelms commercial top 40 radio, then add her age on top of it, and they probably feel like their listeners won't able to relate to her.

[Yummy]

I just wanted to add that so many like to say that it was the two Tim's who got “4 Minutes” on the radio, but would their presence on songs like “Sorry” or “Jump” (same production/same style) made those songs be as well received? I think songs like 4M and “Take a Bow” are harrowing examples that radio will play Madonna when she gives them something not so contrary to everything else on their playlist.

you forgot to mention Music which was sonically electronic yet had that trip-hop beat to make it pass for U.S. radio.

[Supernatural]

Her age doesn't help but I think there are other factors...

Madonna put a few non-radio friendly singles out in a row which helped radio get over their mode of playing just about anything she'd release. On top of that, and around the same time, I think Warner for whatever reason just doesn't give her the proper push needed to get radio play (I don't know the inside details but I'm sure record compaines have to do more than just send out a promo). Radio got over her and Warner doesn't try so nothing much happens.

[ULIZOS]

Do people still listen to the radio?

Honestly, why do people still care? The best music doesn't chart.

[Crystal Coffin]

Do people still listen to the radio?

Honestly, why do people still care? The best music doesn't chart.

BUT MODONNA IS A PAP ARTEEST LMAO

[Ai Papi Si.]

I don't get why everyone on this forum is so invested in it either. A lot of people here got flack for whining about Hard Candy's direction, deservedly in most cases, but I have always secretly thought that a lot of people who fingered their assholes over the direction of Hard Candy were only doing so because they wanted Madonna to get played on the radio.

[Guest Bad Robot]

This is why I've said before I wish she would just abandon any effort at being commercial. These discussions get kind of boring. Just focus on whether or not you like the music.

[Ai Papi Si.]

^ Never gonna happen.

[horn]

Once airplay is removed from the Hot 100 calculation, radio will start playing her songs.

[Crystal Coffin]

CHARTS SHOULD BE BANNED

[Nightshade]

These discussions get kind of boring. Just focus on whether or not you like the music.

I agree with this statement whole-heartedly. We've been speculating on this topic since the American Life era. I think we should all just assume that every single from here on out is going to flop on U.S. radio, and if some of them don't, it will just be a nice surprise. Even Madonna cannot control the minds of radio programmers, and all of the greatest acts - even Elvis, the Beatles and Rolling Stones - were unable to hit the Top 40 consistently after their second or third decades. It's just the way it goes.

This is why I've said before I wish she would just abandon any effort at being commercial.

Madonna IS the embodiment of dance and pop. I am not sure it is in her DNA to be anything but those things. Admitted or not, Madonna has always wanted to be liked to some degree and I do think her style reflects her personality well. I am not sure I'd want Madonna to completely go the Björk or Tori Amos route. I love her for who she is - a sometimes superficial, but also profoundly powerful pop icon.

[horn]

IMO, most radio programmers have been spoiled by the payola (Thanks to Montolla & Benny Medina) and they expect megastar Madonna to kiss their ass and shower them with gift or watever like the way Mimi's been doing, but I doubt Madonna would do it so there goes her airplay.

Just a personal speculation.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I agree with BR to an extent about liking what you like regardless of how it does.... but regardless, artists do need a degree of commercial success to keep going. Look at how many 80's and 90's artists who fell out of favor on the pop charts and are now either broken up or semi-retired. It's true that TRUE artists are still in the game even if it means signing to a tiny indie or having to distribute the music themselves, but there are plenty more who all but disappeared and stopped making music once it no longer became profitable. So when you think of that, I think it makes sense that fans want their favorite artists to remain commercially successful to some degree because there are hundreds of artists on the chart 10, 20, 30 years ago who record very infrequently, if at all, today because they're not selling albums anymore.

Of course, I somehow doubt Madonna will EVER become someone like Sheena Easton who hasn't recorded in ages because she can't find a label, after 25 years, I think she's safe.

[ryan]

With celebration, i think it may just do to the fact that radio thinks the listeners may not like Madonna. Ageist, yes, but ALOT stations did spin the song. I think if alot more people knew it, it would do better.

[Cherish]

Unlike "Pariah", Madonna is a worldwide artist, she's not wholely reliant on U.S radio airplay to make money/sell her music.

That's why U.S radio's neglect of Madonna doesn't bother me that much!

[Guest bluejean]

Warner can and would give something a push if it has potential but 'Celebration' has no potential in the US market at all. So radio has no incentive to play it, and the public aren't going to catch on by themselves since the song isn't strong enough.

I think age is a factor, but it's not the main factor. If Lady Gaga released 'Celebration' I think it would do better, but it wouldn't be huge.

[Guest Danny86]

(I don't know the inside details but I'm sure record compaines have to do more than just send out a promo). Radio got over her and Warner doesn't try so nothing much happens.

I know this was 25 years ago, but according to Tina Turner's wikipedia text, radio did not want to give her a comeback and her manager/label had to "make" them to play "What's Love Got To Do With It".

In May, Capitol released the single "What's Love Got to Do with It" in the U.S. to promote the upcoming album. Only eleven radio stations had taken it to their playlists. Turner's manager, Roger Davies, forced Capitol to promote it more. Two weeks after its release, the song was on the play lists of over 100 radio stations. Eventually the single became a worldwide smash and in September, the song reached number-one on the Billboard Hot 100 becoming the first of Turner's songs to do so. It still remains her only number-one American hit.

Also, I read that Alanis became famous because ONE station started to play "You Oughta Know" and everyone else followed. So yeah, there's definitely more stuff going on than radio having a promo to play the song, and Warner has no interest to invest in that.

As for Madonna stopping being commercial... Does everyone forget that she's going to have to sell out like 3 tours and keep breaking her own touring record in the next several years? She's not going to do that with non-commercial music, so people who think the LN deal with unleash a NEW Madonna who's above everything are deluding themselves. I'm sure the next album will be dance oriented with different beats than COADF and HC, but still songs tailor-made to be sung in stadiums, just like "Give It 2 Me". And no, LN will not care the least if Madonna is played on the radio or not, as long as she keeps scoring $10 million+ on certain single date shows.

[Lucky guy]

The last time I thought US radio had been unfair to Madonna was Hung Up, because that was a bonafide smash throughout the world already; she promoted it heavily; it had a great video which was number one on TRL for months, and I believe it was very heavily requested on radio but did not get the resulting play. The same to a much lesser extent with Sorry.

But now we don't really want US radio to be 'fair'; what we actually want is for them to play Madonna songs because they are Madonna, like they do in the UK and Europe. There are a million songs littering the US club play charts that sound exactly like Celebration. If we were simply about giving people a fair chance, they would all get played too. Bottom line is, in most of the world, and still in the US in terms of profile and being able to promote her work, Madonna gets a good deal out of being Madonna.

[Elysium]

She had one of her biggest hits with the Ray of Light album when she turned 40.

I think it's less to do with her age (although it is a factor) and more to do with the quality of her music in recent years and the fact she is not really regarded by the US as a strong vocalist or songwriter...especially when you compare her to the Pink's, Beyonce's and Lady GaGa's of this world (even though none of these artists can hold a candle to the strength of Madonna's character). As we all know the US market is very different compared to the rest of the world unfortunately. Bringing out effervescent euro pop songs (without any promotion) about parties and dancing in your 50's just doesn't go down too great in the US.

Madonna is known as a trailblazer over there and she hasn't really been delivering anything that's new or inspired for quite some time.

[Guest Bad Robot]

When I say abandon efforts at being commercial, I am not saying go "all weird" or anything like that. I would argue that during the ROL/Music/AL trifecta she was much more interested in exploring new styles instead of just trying to get hits (which, whether you like the album or not, HC certainly sounds like an effort at remaining commercially relevant rather than artistically adventurous). But I'd rather keep getting songs like Paradise, Nobody Knows Me, Easy Ride, Die Another Day, Impressive Instant, Future Lovers, etc. -- stuff that is clearly more driven by creativity than commercial interest.

BTW, Madonna could sell out tours for the next ten years pretty easily without ever having another chart hit.

[kingvirtue]

"heartbeat" should've been released

[Guest Danny86]

Oh come on now, BR. All except one song you listed were never released as singles. Also, "Die Another Day" was the soundtrack of the 20th Bond movie and it was following the vein of the Music hits, so very rich to call that "more driven by creativity". "Music" is one of her safest songs ever, so are "Frozen" and "The Power Of Good-Bye". She might have recorded some non-commercial songs on those 3 albums, but why forget it had "Runaway Lover" and "Amazing" as well? Plus AL has those famous old lyrics recycled, yet that shows creativity and not the need to get a hit?

Also, "Future Lovers" is an admitted "I Feel Love" rip off, I don't see how that or something like "Get Together" puts it below the likes of "SNM" or "GI2M" regarding the need of commercial relevance. Also, I still can't believe why people think Madonna calling Pharrell very creative and different is not the same as when she praised Mirwais/Stuart/Orbit. Yes, HC has a duet with Justin and a rap by Kanye, but that hardly sticks out after Madonna revisiting the original theme of hers with "Music" and releasing 2 safe ballads from ROL. I'm not putting a = between COADF/HC and the previous eras, but the gap is a lot smaller than you assume.

As for the tours, of course none of them would flop if she never charted with a new song, but touring US and Europe in every 2-3 years will get harder without any new and successful projects. She already pulled the hits card for the RIT and there are very few countries now that she did not tour in the past decade.

[goldtooth]

For the better part of a decade Madonna's achievements in the U.S. have paled in comparison to Europe. Why the big fuss now? Besides, out of Hard Candy's 3 singles, only one fit U.S. radio playlists, and that ended up being her biggest hit in 8 years. No real surprise there. Since Ray of Light, with the exception of Confessions, all of Madonna's albums have sold about double in the U.S. vs U.K. (which with a population of about 5X as much isn't all that impressive). A tradition that continued with Hard Candy. Another non-shocker there.

Madonna sells out tours and is front page news in the U.S. just like in Europe, Japan, etc... It seems rumours of Madonna's U.S. demise have been greatly exagerated.

[Guest]

I feel lucky that we don't have such issues here in the UK when it comes to radio and Madge. Stations still play her music and accept song requests without hesitation. I remember requesting Love Profusion a couple of times and they played it on all occasions, theres very little ageism here but saying that, i doubt they'd play new songs by folks like Cliff Richard, Elton John etc Its probably cos shes Madonna and they generally like her