Glindathegood Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Well, the good news is the press and everyone else will pay no attention to this documentary since everyone is focused on MJ's death right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Well, the good news is the press and everyone else will pay no attention to this documentary since everyone is focused on MJ's death right now. The Daily Hate might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomer Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Some shocking stuff about just how messed up her Kabbalah cult is. I'm sorry, she's doing good work for these kids but it's a shame that it all comes with a price. I always thought that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 You, along with many other people seem to have this odd double standard. Like its okay for one but not the other. I never said anything of the kind, you know. I just pointed out that the reason for her adoption being dissected by the media like that was because of the ties to her sham religion, that's all. I think it's great that she's adopted these children, I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Whats wrong with teaching children that actions have consequences? Nothing, but why attribute what is everyday common sense to something as phony and bloated and suspect as Kabballah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hard to say. I've read a book or two, and obviously a lot of articles. Are you a Kaballist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hard to say. I've read a book or two, and obviously a lot of articles. Are you a Kaballist? So like most who go on and on and on....and on....you know NOTHING about it. Kind of like the people who critique her shows, without ever having actually been to one. Just sayin.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I know enough to make an informed opinion, I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Fair enough. But I've heard so many die-hard Kabballists denouce Berg as a total charlatan who's perverting their philosophy. I guess it's harsh of me to immediately assume the worst, but...I dunno. It all seems so smug. And has a whiff of Scientology, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydita Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Around 700k people watched the documentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Around 700k people watched the documentary. Swept Away got 900,000 viewers when it was shown on the UK's Channel 5 in April 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonski43 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 As it said in the documentary, neither of the children are orphans. In Malawi, "orphanages" are often places where people put their children if they are having a tough time in the hope that things will get better and they can return to their families in two or three years. And yes, I am against the adoptions - I think it would be better to sponsor a child in their own community through to university or support a community to develop and provide for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It was a very interesting documentary although seemed to end quite abruptly. Unlike a lot of Madonna loons I like to keep an open mind and look at every angle of a story, even if that angle does disparage my favourite performer in an honest and fair way. Ultimately, it was not as scathing as some assumed it would be. The journalist (who seemed like a good interrogative journalist in my opinion) asked entirely valid questions. The film basically highlighted how white supremacy and a modern albeit discreet form of slavery/colonialism is still alive and kicking in this day and age. Why is it that a 50 year old divorced wealthy white woman can adopt a child from an impoverished country like Malawi with such ease? The answer was simple - MONEY AND POWER! The average weekly salary in Malawi is 50 pence per day. The government in a country as poor as Malawi can be bought off and influenced by money with even greater sway than the governments of the West. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Peretti basically stated that the government and judicial system were in cahoots with Madonna and her people and helped to expedite the conveyance of Mercy under monetary influence. Mercy's family were also swayed by this influence even though no money appeared to exchange hands. Ultimately, it was the promise of money and a 'better future' for Mercy which prevented them from putting up a fight. The Malawian judicial system itself was highlighted as incompetent giving further opportunity for exploitation. What really disgusted me was how Madonna and her people bypassed the usual traditions of the country and stole a plot of land for the new school without consulting the appointed people of the land. Peretti was right - how bloody arrogant - and rude! I can hear Madonna loons scream 'Oh, but it's all for the greater good!' - to which I say bollocks! There is no excuse for ignoring a country's traditional protocol. I had a huge problem with the lack of respect and appreciation Madonna and her brainwashing cult have for Malawian culture. It provided some indication of how much information Madonna will bestow upon David Banda and Mercy James regarding their cultural heritage, i.e. - none, because Madonna clearly has no respect for the culture - she only wants its children and the kudos of being a patron or benefactor and how this might elevate her to messiah-like status after she's gone. I also found the connections Raising Malawi and the schools have to the ridiculous Kabbalah sect extremely sinister along with VDB who really creeped me out. He came across as such a shady slime ball who evaded any direct questions thrown at him like a rattle snake. As Peretti pointed out - his concern was the lack of transparency throughout the whole adoption and Raising Malawi process. VDB provided none. If VDB is the sort that Madonna is liaising with these days it will not surprise me to find she has ended up like Michael Jackson within the near future. Why all the secrecy? Overall Madonna comes across like a puppet in a show managed by Rabbi Berg and the Kabbalah brainwashers...ironic how she is being exploited for her riches in the same way she is exploiting Malawi for its children. The documentary gave a fairly good insight into the quality and standards of the orphanages in Malawi - much better than I anticipated. These kids are not dying by the minute and sleeping in their own excrement. They seem to be fairly happy children. They are just extremely poor. Who are we as Westerners to decide whether Malawian culture is good or bad, wrong or right, or that we should intervene, start changing everything and impose our belief systems upon Malawi or removing its children? The saddest scene was when Peretti visited the school with all the children looking at him intently through the safety gates at the end. They painted a poignant picture...so sad they might as well have had price tags on ready for phone pictures of them to be sent to another famous wealthy white divorced woman to buy up like a fashion accessory. I sincerely hope Mercy has a happy and content future being raised by an absent workaholic middle-aged woman and an ever-changing entourage of nannies. But then, I guess if you throw enough money at a problem it will just go away and make everything better, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 As it said in the documentary, neither of the children are orphans. In Malawi, "orphanages" are often places where people put their children if they are having a tough time in the hope that things will get better and they can return to their families in two or three years. And yes, I am against the adoptions - I think it would be better to sponsor a child in their own community through to university or support a community to develop and provide for themselves. Considering the children do have families in Malawi, it would be funny if someone flew them all over at Christmas and said "there you go, bitch, entertain the relatives" I feel a Hollywood blockbuster comedy coming on - "Meet The Bandas" Totally agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydita Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I wouldn't be surprised if TV networks are passing on it just because it's Madonna. I doubt that's the case with the majority of UK broadcasters, people are still very impressed with Vadge even if she's not a huge TV audience draw. I'd imagine it's more so the fact that (from a UK point of view at least) it could be seen as giving undue prominence to Raising Malawi which, although a charity, is still a commercial entity. It's (and I mean this is the nicest possible way!) essentially a propeganda film for Raising Malawi, making it problematic for UK broadcast. God that was boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtzlplk Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 luckily, MADONNA nor the kids watch TV, ever... so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider of the lost Ark Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It was a very interesting documentary although seemed to end quite abruptly. Unlike a lot of Madonna loons I like to keep an open mind and look at every angle of a story, even if that angle does disparage my favourite performer in an honest and fair way. Ultimately, it was not as scathing as some assumed it would be. The journalist (who seemed like a good interrogative journalist in my opinion) asked entirely valid questions. The film basically highlighted how white supremacy and a modern albeit discreet form of slavery/colonialism is still alive and kicking in this day and age. Why is it that a 50 year old divorced wealthy white woman can adopt a child from an impoverished country like Malawi with such ease? The answer was simple - MONEY AND POWER! The average weekly salary in Malawi is 50 pence per day. The government in a country as poor as Malawi can be bought off and influenced by money with even greater sway than the governments of the West. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Peretti basically stated that the government and judicial system were in cahoots with Madonna and her people and helped to expedite the conveyance of Mercy under monetary influence. Mercy's family were also swayed by this influence even though no money appeared to exchange hands. Ultimately, it was the promise of money and a 'better future' for Mercy which prevented them from putting up a fight. The Malawian judicial system itself was highlighted as incompetent giving further opportunity for exploitation. What really disgusted me was how Madonna and her people bypassed the usual traditions of the country and stole a plot of land for the new school without consulting the appointed people of the land. Peretti was right - how bloody arrogant - and rude! I can hear Madonna loons scream 'Oh, but it's all for the greater good!' - to which I say bollocks! There is no excuse for ignoring a country's traditional protocol. I had a huge problem with the lack of respect and appreciation Madonna and her brainwashing cult have for Malawian culture. It provided some indication of how much information Madonna will bestow upon David Banda and Mercy James regarding their cultural heritage, i.e. - none, because Madonna clearly has no respect for the culture - she only wants its children and the kudos of being a patron or benefactor and how this might elevate her to messiah-like status after she's gone. I also found the connections Raising Malawi and the schools have to the ridiculous Kabbalah sect extremely sinister along with VDB who really creeped me out. He came across as such a shady slime ball who evaded any direct questions thrown at him like a rattle snake. As Peretti pointed out - his concern was the lack of transparency throughout the whole adoption and Raising Malawi process. VDB provided none. If VDB is the sort that Madonna is liaising with these days it will not surprise me to find she has ended up like Michael Jackson within the near future. Why all the secrecy? Overall Madonna comes across like a puppet in a show managed by Rabbi Berg and the Kabbalah brainwashers...ironic how she is being exploited for her riches in the same way she is exploiting Malawi for its children. The documentary gave a fairly good insight into the quality and standards of the orphanages in Malawi - much better than I anticipated. These kids are not dying by the minute and sleeping in their own excrement. They seem to be fairly happy children. They are just extremely poor. Who are we as Westerners to decide whether Malawian culture is good or bad, wrong or right, or that we should intervene, start changing everything and impose our belief systems upon Malawi or removing its children? The saddest scene was when Peretti visited the school with all the children looking at him intently through the safety gates at the end. They painted a poignant picture...so sad they might as well have had price tags on ready for phone pictures of them to be sent to another famous wealthy white divorced woman to buy up like a fashion accessory. I sincerely hope Mercy has a happy and content future being raised by an absent workaholic middle-aged woman and an ever-changing entourage of nannies. But then, I guess if you throw enough money at a problem it will just go away and make everything better, right? Wow, maybe this "documentary" should be nominated for an Academy Award if it was so insightful. Nice to read that you have learnt so much from it and that you enjoyed the different angle. And your comment "I sincerely hope Mercy has a happy and content future being raised by an absent workaholic middle-aged woman and an ever-changing entourage of nannies" really shows you care. I guess you definately belong to the target audience of this "documentary". You know, people with such an open mind that you exactly know how this 50 year old wealthy white divorced woman is raising her children. I wonder if your and other peoples mind would be as open if the whole issue wasn´t about Madonna. Drama Boy? Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akurren Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 For those who haven't seen it I copied/pasted the link from http://www.absolumentmadonna.fr/en Haven't seen it yet Apparently there's some nice footage of Madonna DOWNLOAD: http://rapidshare.com/users/AY3PHP ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Lecter Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 600,000 Viewers PITIFUL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 600,000 Viewers PITIFUL Everyone was watching the Tennis on BBC1. It had 11 million viewers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glindathegood Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Here's a review of it. They didn't seem to like it too much. The ethics of moving natives of Africa to the West was further explored by Jacques Peretti in Madonna and Mercy: What Really Happened?. This was a documentary examining the pop star's recent adoption of a four-year-old Malawian girl called Mercy, and Peretti, while disingenuously claiming that he was open to all kinds of conclusions, duly arrived at the one that he had clearly reached long before the cameras started rolling – namely that Madonna has no business swanning over to Malawi and plucking out cute-looking kids to take back to New York. He also suggested, while never managing to find much evidence, that the esoteric spiritual movement to which Madonna belongs, Kabbalah, lends a decidedly sinister dimension to her family-planning decisions. Undoubtedly, there is a valid debate to be had about Madonna adopting children from Malawian orphanages, especially as it turned out that Mercy is not an orphan. But Peretti crafted a documentary to fit his own preconceptions. He also claimed that, when he got to Africa, a local journalist "reminded" him that Madonna had previously adopted another Malawian child, David Banda. If he needed reminding, then he should have been a little more thorough with his research. If he didn't, he shouldn't have insulted our intelligence by pretending he did. But in fairness, he uncovered plenty of material worth knowing, enabling the rest of us to be rather more objective before deciding whether Madonna has behaved monstrously, or admirably. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertai...-4-1724418.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhot Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It was a very interesting documentary although seemed to end quite abruptly. Unlike a lot of Madonna loons I like to keep an open mind and look at every angle of a story, even if that angle does disparage my favourite performer in an honest and fair way. Ultimately, it was not as scathing as some assumed it would be. The journalist (who seemed like a good interrogative journalist in my opinion) asked entirely valid questions. The film basically highlighted how white supremacy and a modern albeit discreet form of slavery/colonialism is still alive and kicking in this day and age. Why is it that a 50 year old divorced wealthy white woman can adopt a child from an impoverished country like Malawi with such ease? The answer was simple - MONEY AND POWER! The average weekly salary in Malawi is 50 pence per day. The government in a country as poor as Malawi can be bought off and influenced by money with even greater sway than the governments of the West. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Peretti basically stated that the government and judicial system were in cahoots with Madonna and her people and helped to expedite the conveyance of Mercy under monetary influence. Mercy's family were also swayed by this influence even though no money appeared to exchange hands. Ultimately, it was the promise of money and a 'better future' for Mercy which prevented them from putting up a fight. The Malawian judicial system itself was highlighted as incompetent giving further opportunity for exploitation. What really disgusted me was how Madonna and her people bypassed the usual traditions of the country and stole a plot of land for the new school without consulting the appointed people of the land. Peretti was right - how bloody arrogant - and rude! I can hear Madonna loons scream 'Oh, but it's all for the greater good!' - to which I say bollocks! There is no excuse for ignoring a country's traditional protocol. I had a huge problem with the lack of respect and appreciation Madonna and her brainwashing cult have for Malawian culture. It provided some indication of how much information Madonna will bestow upon David Banda and Mercy James regarding their cultural heritage, i.e. - none, because Madonna clearly has no respect for the culture - she only wants its children and the kudos of being a patron or benefactor and how this might elevate her to messiah-like status after she's gone. I also found the connections Raising Malawi and the schools have to the ridiculous Kabbalah sect extremely sinister along with VDB who really creeped me out. He came across as such a shady slime ball who evaded any direct questions thrown at him like a rattle snake. As Peretti pointed out - his concern was the lack of transparency throughout the whole adoption and Raising Malawi process. VDB provided none. If VDB is the sort that Madonna is liaising with these days it will not surprise me to find she has ended up like Michael Jackson within the near future. Why all the secrecy? Overall Madonna comes across like a puppet in a show managed by Rabbi Berg and the Kabbalah brainwashers...ironic how she is being exploited for her riches in the same way she is exploiting Malawi for its children. The documentary gave a fairly good insight into the quality and standards of the orphanages in Malawi - much better than I anticipated. These kids are not dying by the minute and sleeping in their own excrement. They seem to be fairly happy children. They are just extremely poor. Who are we as Westerners to decide whether Malawian culture is good or bad, wrong or right, or that we should intervene, start changing everything and impose our belief systems upon Malawi or removing its children? The saddest scene was when Peretti visited the school with all the children looking at him intently through the safety gates at the end. They painted a poignant picture...so sad they might as well have had price tags on ready for phone pictures of them to be sent to another famous wealthy white divorced woman to buy up like a fashion accessory. I sincerely hope Mercy has a happy and content future being raised by an absent workaholic middle-aged woman and an ever-changing entourage of nannies. But then, I guess if you throw enough money at a problem it will just go away and make everything better, right? You strike me as one of those people who watch Fox news and think you're being told the truth.You're attidude towards M and what you seem to think she's really like makes me wonder about you. Clearly something bad has happened to you and you project these feelings towards Madonna. Bitter and hateful come to mind. You're take on what YOU think is true is vile. Clearly not a fan,so why do you bother spending time on a woman you so clearly loath...strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonski43 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 600,000 Viewers PITIFUL To be fair, it was a lousy and odd time to have it. I thought it was at 9.00 but it was at 8.00 on a Monday night? It was up against primetime viewing and the Andy Murray match. Although I do think that Madonna is not that great a TV draw now anyway from a personal life point of view. Everyone knows her life story and knows she can put on a great show so she can sell out a huge tour but what really is there left to know about her life that interests the general public? I doubt if a similar documentary about Brangelina would have pulled in much more either. I think this is one of those subjects the press are more interested in than the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezwer Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 And yes, I am against the adoptions - I think it would be better to sponsor a child in their own community through to university or support a community to develop and provide for themselves. This is so ignorant, I don't even know where to start. Say that to the face of my adopted friends. These countries need help obviously, but there's alot that must be changed within poor countries aswell, not just aid from rich countries can make these changes, their whole system and way of thinking must be changed basically. It's nothing that will be made in just a couple of years and MILLIONS of children will die till that die (may?) come! But according to your logic they should be left there to die then... At the moment I don't see what's bad with someone actually giving a kid a better life. Sorry but I have nothing more to add to that ignorant comment. You make it look so easy, while it's not. And about the documentary. It's sick that he compare building orphanages to colonialism! I mean this man is sick seriously. How the media is treating is is just SICK! Adopting a child is evil and bad? Building orphanages and schools in poor countries is colonialism? What do these people want? That the children should just die without any international help? Because that would be the result if these journalists wishes would come true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joliepast Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 can someone please upload for US fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Bitch Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I agree entirely with the Independent review - the guy who did it was totally lacking in any objectivity and it seemed to be as much about the misconception that Kabbalah is a cult, as it was about her adopting African babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonski43 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 This is so ignorant, I don't even know where to start. Say that to the face of my adopted friends. These countries need help obviously, but there's alot that must be changed within poor countries aswell, not just aid from rich countries can make these changes, their whole system and way of thinking must be changed basically. It's nothing that will be made in just a couple of years and MILLIONS of children will die till that die (may?) come! But according to your logic they should be left there to die then... At the moment I don't see what's bad with someone actually giving a kid a better life. Sorry but I have nothing more to add to that ignorant comment. You make it look so easy, while it's not. And about the documentary. It's sick that he compare building orphanages to colonialism! I mean this man is sick seriously. How the media is treating is is just SICK! Adopting a child is evil and bad? Building orphanages and schools in poor countries is colonialism? What do these people want? That the children should just die without any international help? Because that would be the result if these journalists wishes would come true. You're being very naive and don't ever call me ignorant when you have never met me and I have watched the documentary to make an informed opinion. I never said adopting a child is evil and bad. I have adopted friends too but they weren't taken away from one culture, adopted by one of the most famous people in the world to then spend the formative years of their lives in the eyes of a press in a world completely alien to 99% of the worlds population. My friends didn't have any other relatives either unlike both these children who seem to have extensive families. Her grandmother was going to adopt in the true sense of the word. That is fine. I've absolutely no problems with that - her own family taking her into a familiar environment. Secondly, the children weren't dying either. Just because they were in Africa, it doesn't mean they are all dying left, right and centre. Yes, they are poor but they had families there. Could Madonna have sponsored the children and left them with their families throughout their lifetimes. I think that would have been better. It's great they are supporting the country but I can't see the point of singling two kids out WHO STILL HAVE FAMILY. At least if they were true orphans then they wouldn't be leaving behind family members who will rarely get to see them. Madonna will be one of the better celeb mothers but it will be a massive culture shock for them and what about when they are adults? Would they want to return home? Would their families want to come to the US? It throws up so many questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 There is a massive African culture in America. There is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ursaminorjim Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm still confused here - what "African derived culture" do you mean? I mean, sure - there's pocket communities in most major cities, but I don't think there's an overwhelming influence from any single ethnicity here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezwer Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 You're being very naive and don't ever call me ignorant when you have never met me and I have watched the documentary to make an informed opinion. I never said adopting a child is evil and bad. I have adopted friends too but they weren't taken away from one culture, adopted by one of the most famous people in the world to then spend the formative years of their lives in the eyes of a press in a world completely alien to 99% of the worlds population. My friends didn't have any other relatives either unlike both these children who seem to have extensive families. Her grandmother was going to adopt in the true sense of the word. That is fine. I've absolutely no problems with that - her own family taking her into a familiar environment. Secondly, the children weren't dying either. Just because they were in Africa, it doesn't mean they are all dying left, right and centre. Yes, they are poor but they had families there. Could Madonna have sponsored the children and left them with their families throughout their lifetimes. I think that would have been better. It's great they are supporting the country but I can't see the point of singling two kids out WHO STILL HAVE FAMILY. At least if they were true orphans then they wouldn't be leaving behind family members who will rarely get to see them. Madonna will be one of the better celeb mothers but it will be a massive culture shock for them and what about when they are adults? Would they want to return home? Would their families want to come to the US? It throws up so many questions. All my friends that are adopted, are adopted from poorer countries, and most of them were adopted while having biological relatives and even parents alive. According to your logic though, they should have stayed with relatives that wouldn't be able to provide a real future for them, future with opportunities like someone more fortuned would have, and i'm not even talking about a life in luxury, just things that we in the "fortuned part of the world" take for granted even. And yes, what you said IS ignorant, because basically what you're saying is that those people (including my friends), should have been better off staying in their poor countries and that it was wrong that they were adopted, just because they were taken from "another culture" or whatever... just like small kids have got so much culture in the first place? Please! It's a known fact that culture, religion etc. comes with age. That's what makes kids so special, because up to a certain age they don't really have those type of things really because they actually doesn't really understand it. That's why small kids in some ways are actually "smarter" than grown ups because they are too young to be thinking in that kind of narrow-minded way, that older kids and adults do, therefor they won't have this "massive culture chock" you talk about. There is a phenomenon called "culture chock" for sure, but not really in this case. I don't know you, you might not be ignorant, but THAT comment was ignorant and I will not change my opinion on that. It's so easy being so smart when growing up in a place that's more fortuned than others. When some people are struggling for the simplest things, things many of us take for granted, I think culture is not the most important issue. To even come up with that as an argument in this case is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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