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2020 U.S. Election

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I  actually love that 3rd parties can have a say - that happens in Australia.  It gives choice,  gets people more interested and lets people vote for someone that shares their values and ideology.  We have preferential voting here so people can vote for the greens, conservative parties or a different candidate and give their preferences to major parties.   If the party or person they voted for is knocked out,  their preference on the voting slip is then counted. Therefore their vote is not wasted.  What I have noticed in the USA,  is that people worry so much about what others would not 'vote for,  that real progressives will never get in.  It is baffling to me that Bernie is seen as some kind of radical left winger when his policies are used in virtually every other Western country.  I love him. However, understand that America has a completely different voting system.   Always find it strange too that a leader is not picked much earlier so the whole party can work together or even put on a united front early.   It is horrible to watch Democrats all vying for the top job,  fighting with each other and being compared in the public and all the time Trump is parading around knowing that he is the leader of the party.   He is sickening and a laughing stock. America deserves so much better than him.  

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23 hours ago, jamesshot said:

Any person who is gay willing to risk their rights with right wing judges on the bench for a lifetime is.......well I better not say. 

 

Respect your opinions.  Can you elaborate a little more on that line though.  I'm not sure if that was directed at me personally since I posted above you saying I supported a third party candidate in the past.  Or are you just speaking in general? 

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7 hours ago, Kurt420 said:

Omg.....ALL of this right here!!! 

YES!! 

You said everything I've wanted to say in regard to this. 

I will say though that I adore Bernie and even now he's absolutely my #1 pick among the Dem candidates at this point but I'm also realistic and....well....his chances now and in 2016 were slim because he's VERY left. Again, I love him, think he's in this for altruistic reasons and I believe he wants to achieve everything he says he does (I don't think it's just talking points with him), his passion for good is palpable in my opinion but there's no way this country is ready for that. 

Having said that, I felt like Hillary's passion for doing the right thing was palpable as well. There are so many many misconceptions and flat out lies about that woman that are now just "fact" and probably always will be. I find it sad that so many people fell into that trap......but regrettably, not really surprised. Just goes to show how far we have to go in terms of equality for men and women. Anyone denying sexism played NO ROLE in how 2016 turned out is living in a fantasy land. The 2016 election truly was the perfect storm BUT I still say Comey sent it over the edge by doing what he did mere days before the election. That was no accident.

Funny that now with the more recent developments that the right is AGAIN bringing up Hillary's emails as an attempt to deflect.....this is in 2019. Truly....who gives a flying FUCK about her emails at this point?? Anytime the right is facing some sort of "crisis" all they have to say is "Obama did this" or "Hillary did that" and it STILL triggers the deplorables. WHY though?? Politically, both of these people are ancient history. It's just desperation and outright obsession at this point.

 

Thank you!

 

6 hours ago, Ciccone's Cheeks said:

 ^ because u have the most dreadful backwash of society totally empowered thx to 'their swamp monster messiah' FULLY empowering them in the sunlight (no hoods) style. HE is the last gasp...the face/raging voice of the bigoted, bitter musty, angry white man and woman seeing things have been a little too colorful. Were always 'there' lurking/circling the sewer  but stayed put just beneath the surface in their isolated holes, log cabins, trailer parks etc....Old news now his floor is at around 30%. Will NOT lose them and EVERY single one WILL come out for him in 2020. Whether a major depression, market crash, nuclear war, plague, underage orgy fests with Ivanka, Tiffany, etc on multiple videos....they do.not.care. And yes, the ranting, raging to 'lock her up', 'send them back' (and prob WAY worse next year)..all the tired/lame greatest (s)hits will be louder than ever at every f'king one of his 1933-esque kkkampaign rallies.

MY bigger concern is the Dem candidates are dreadful. I am NOT seeing/hearing/feeling anyone w/ any charisma. Getting late...really late and the fact its still fluid (with the top 3 all being over 70) w/ 2 out  of the 3 being faar  left/polarizing and 1 one who can barely complete a sentence now is very much not good. 0 chance a 70 yr old white librarian with a 'plan' will have ANY crossover appeal to middle-older aged white men (and women) in the midwest/purple states. Lmao far as the south being receptive to her 'plans'. Not so much the message but messenger. May make HRC look like a rock star. 55 people ran and yet the GP is gravitating to possibly the least electable. least likable and least coherent in a general election. Faar left f'ked up the party like the far bonkers right took over the GOP (all in 2016). Indefinitely damaged now. The angrier, louder and most  extreme= have the power now. Minority rule. Problem is neither side will budge or give an inch and just keep getting worse. 

That last part sounds so much like right wing talking points. It sounds so left wing because the GOP has pushed our narrative so far right. If you look at FDR, he did so many "radical left policies" that are extremely popular and actually work today as well as then. Far left did not fuck anything. The far right did and has pushed us so far right we think the center is conservative. It is not. Trump is popular with so many because he espouses fiscally liberal ideals while governing as a typical conservative (tax cuts for the rich, huge military spending) which never works. Fiscal liberalism as always moved the middle class forward.

 

4 hours ago, KalamazooJay said:

I agree with 90% of this. Very, very, very well said. 

I throw my head back in laughter when people say Bernie would've beat Trump. Not a chance. Not only would he have lost PA, MI, and WI. But I believe he would've lost Minnesota, New Hampshire, and possibly Nevada. 

What I DO NOT agree with is that Hillary ran a solid campaign operation. That is just not true. While Hillary was wining and dining in LA and NYC doing posh fundraisers with those big, bad, 'elite' big donors,  Trump was a road warrior holding his fascist 'concerts' for his band of deplorable's EVERY SINGLE DAY. Say what you will about him, but the guy campaigned HARD in the 3 states he flipped to become president. I knew many of the field managers who worked in various parts of Michigan who were LIVID with the Clinton campaign and at the lack of attention she was giving my state. I make a 3 hour drive north, to Saginaw, to see my family every 6 weeks. The last hour and half is basically though farm country and never in MY LIFE had I seen so many yard signs during an election year. 

For anyone. Ever. All Trump. 

And if this is how rural Michigan was, I can imagine it was exactly how the rest of the rural Mid-West was. It was in mid October of that year, when the signs became more plentiful, that something hit me and for the first time I thought 'Shit, she's gonna lose this thing.' It was a negligence and arrogance of a special kind to not campaign harder in the Mid-West and instead, direct resources to Arizona, North Carolina, and even Georgia I think. She should've been listening to campaign managers in the states she lost instead of campaigning in the Sun Belt. Especially considering the margins she lost by in those 3 states. 

You have to remember her campaign was operating on internal polls. There was no reason to believe she lost those states. She was FUCKED, FUCKED hard by Comey. Then add in the Russians possilbly (they hacked over 30 states) several state votes as well as all the other I mentioned and she was against a perfect storm. YET she STILL won.

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28 minutes ago, Blue Skies said:

Respect your opinions.  Can you elaborate a little more on that line though.  I'm not sure if that was directed at me personally since I posted above you saying I supported a third party candidate in the past.  Or are you just speaking in general? 

Yes, if you supported a 3rd party knowing in the USA it is meaningless and you have a dozen posts, I have suspicions. Any person who is gay who would even dare put their rights on the line for Gary Johnson, a way out there nutjob, I have to question your motives. I am sick of gays saying they are conservative and there is no other option. Bullshit! Gary Johnson had no fucking chance (and he would NOT be good for us) no matter the state you vote in. Did you do it for shits and giggles? Congrats! Hope you're happy! I am not old enough to remember how fucking awful it was for gays back in the day but I am old enough to remember how fucking bad enough it was. No fucking conservative or libertarian (what a JOKE) deserves my vote-ever. They actively would appoint people who would take my RIGHTS away. Even the Libertarian assholes who talk a great game but who are frauds. They are closeted conservatives. 

I have my degree in political science and worked on numerous campaigns and was a congressional intern. I know the game.

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4 hours ago, Jazzy Jan said:

 

I  actually love that 3rd parties can have a say - that happens in Australia.  It gives choice,  gets people more interested and lets people vote for someone that shares their values and ideology.  We have preferential voting here so people can vote for the greens, conservative parties or a different candidate and give their preferences to major parties.   If the party or person they voted for is knocked out,  their preference on the voting slip is then counted. Therefore their vote is not wasted.  What I have noticed in the USA,  is that people worry so much about what others would not 'vote for,  that real progressives will never get in.  It is baffling to me that Bernie is seen as some kind of radical left winger when his policies are used in virtually every other Western country.  I love him. However, understand that America has a completely different voting system.   Always find it strange too that a leader is not picked much earlier so the whole party can work together or even put on a united front early.   It is horrible to watch Democrats all vying for the top job,  fighting with each other and being compared in the public and all the time Trump is parading around knowing that he is the leader of the party.   He is sickening and a laughing stock. America deserves so much better than him.  

I love you, Jazzy. I understand your POV. I just think voting for a candidate that makes you feel warm and fuzzy results with you, at the end of the day, accepting a coalition that ends up being exactly like the Dems and Repubs. And so many want to equate them as being equally as bad when the Republicans are just about completely corrupt and have sold out the USA it is not fair to distinguish between them. One is a normal party. The other is a wholly corrupt sell out. I am fucking PISSED beyond belief this has happened to my country. 

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14 minutes ago, jamesshot said:

Yes, if you supported a 3rd party knowing in the USA it is meaningless and you have a dozen posts, I have suspicions. Any person who is gay who would even dare put their rights on the line for Gary Johnson, a way out there nutjob, I have to question your motives. I am sick of gays saying they are conservative and there is no other option. Bullshit! Gary Johnson had no fucking chance (and he would NOT be good for us) no matter the state you vote in. Did you do it for shits and giggles? Congrats! Hope you're happy! I am not old enough to remember how fucking awful it was for gays back in the day but I am old enough to remember how fucking bad enough it was. No fucking conservative or libertarian (what a JOKE) deserves my vote-ever. They actively would appoint people who would take my RIGHTS away. Even the Libertarian assholes who talk a great game but who are frauds. They are closeted conservatives. 

I have my degree in political science and worked on numerous campaigns and was a congressional intern. I know the game.

Okay a question for you.  How do you know and why are you assuming I'm gay based on the little information you know about me?  Because I'm a male, enjoy Madonna's music, and joined a message board to discuss her?  There's good and bad people both male & female, all different religions, races, etc...   I would never not make assumptions on a person I don't know or only knew a few things about.

I do agree with you about Trump.  He's a clown and only in for himself.  Even then I still wouldn't totally dismiss a person as a human being all together that voted for him.  I would think he/she is about as misguided as someone who would've contributed to his "University" but would at least hear he or she out.  

I'm sorry I pissed you off so much and I'll just leave this part of the site or maybe it all together if you're so disturbed by my presence.  

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1 minute ago, Blue Skies said:

Okay a question for you.  How do you know and why are you assuming I'm gay based on the little information you know about me?  Because I'm a male, enjoy Madonna's music, and joined a message board to discuss her?  There's good and bad people both male & female, all different religions, races, etc...   I would never not make assumptions on a person I don't know or only knew a few things about.

I do agree with you about Trump.  He's a clown and only in for himself.  Even then I still wouldn't totally dismiss a person as a human being all together that voted for him.  I would think he/she is about as misguided as someone who would've contributed to his "University" but would at least hear he or she out.  

I'm sorry I pissed you off so much and I'll just leave this part of the site or maybe it all together if you're so disturbed by my presence.  

You're right. Many straight people love and enjoy Madonna. I assumed since you were here, and male and from the USA, you were gay. That is a stupid assumption since I personally know many straight male Madonna fans. 

That said, anybody who would vote for this person, or vote for a 3rd party, knowing the extreme threat he posed is infuriating and unforgivable. We learn from history or so I hope. I use to curse the German people. How could they let someone like Hitler rise to power? The signs were there. The atrocious personality and policies were there. The language used was there. Yet, it happened to a sophisticated country. Now, I totally get it. I apologize to to the German people for ever feeling this way because it is happening here now. I can see how the German people, or the dumb ones, were suckered. Just like here. The parallels are astounding.

That said, you come to a message board full of LGBT members and admit to voting 3rd party with almost a giggle about it. It pisses me off! I fought for my rights. I don't take them for granted so it pisses me off when someone freely admits to voting for a 3rd party when a perfectly good alternative is present. I do not respect conservatives. They have shown throughout history to not have the interest of anybody but their own. 

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12 hours ago, jamesshot said:

Thank you!

 

That last part sounds so much like right wing talking points. It sounds so left wing because the GOP has pushed our narrative so far right. If you look at FDR, he did so many "radical left policies" that are extremely popular and actually work today as well as then. Far left did not fuck anything. The far right did and has pushed us so far right we think the center is conservative. It is not. Trump is popular with so many because he espouses fiscally liberal ideals while governing as a typical conservative (tax cuts for the rich, huge military spending) which never works. Fiscal liberalism as always moved the middle class forward.

 

You have to remember her campaign was operating on internal polls. There was no reason to believe she lost those states. She was FUCKED, FUCKED hard by Comey. Then add in the Russians possilbly (they hacked over 30 states) several state votes as well as all the other I mentioned and she was against a perfect storm. YET she STILL won.

Except she didn't win. She lost. And she lost because she ran an inept campaign. 

And 'no reason to believe she lost those states'? Are you kidding me? Michael Moore was screaming at the top of his lungs in JULY that she was on track to lose Michigan. Bernie WON Michigan in probably the biggest upset of the Dem primary. That ALONE should've set alarm bells screaming inside of the Clinton campaign. Christ, Slick Willie was even saying GET TO MICHIGAN which is why a cavalry of Dem heavyweights (The Obamas, Bill Clinton, and Hillary herself) all descended into Michigan just days before the election. 

And where was she the EVENING before the election? IN PHILADELPHIA! As if that city was in any danger of flipping to red. I mean, c'mon. I'm well aware of the outside factors that CONTRIBUTED to her loss, but when it's all said and done, had Clinton CAMPAIGNED in the right states, with the right message, it would've been HER that eked out a narrow margin in PA, MI, and WI. 

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19 hours ago, jamesshot said:

I love you, Jazzy. I understand your POV. I just think voting for a candidate that makes you feel warm and fuzzy results with you, at the end of the day, accepting a coalition that ends up being exactly like the Dems and Repubs. And so many want to equate them as being equally as bad when the Republicans are just about completely corrupt and have sold out the USA it is not fair to distinguish between them. One is a normal party. The other is a wholly corrupt sell out. I am fucking PISSED beyond belief this has happened to my country. 

I understand totally what you mean Jamesshot.  The Republicans are different from the Democrats - different ideology and values. Especially this Republican party. I was just more reflecting on how I think the preferential voting system is a great one that allows 3rd parties to play a huge part and bring issues directly to the voters. America does not have preferential voting system though so 3rd party voting sadly becomes a wasted vote.  

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:sadface:

 

Bernie was rushed to the hospital today for a heart issue. They put in two stents. 

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On 10/2/2019 at 5:27 PM, CzarnaWisnia said:

:sadface:

 

Bernie was rushed to the hospital today for a heart issue. They put in two stents. 

Well apparently he's still going to make the debate next week. 

He's too old. Period. 79 years old if he wins on inauguration day. 88 years old if he makes a full 8 years. Sorry, there's nothing ageist about saying that. Most people are long retired at that age or have cut back considerably at their jobs regardless of  what occupation they have. Even Carter, who's like 95, said he couldn't have done his job properly as president when he was in his 80's. 

 

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33 minutes ago, KalamazooJay said:

Well apparently he's still going to make the debate next week. 

He's too old. Period. 79 years old if he wins on inauguration day. 88 years old if he makes a full 8 years. Sorry, there's nothing ageist about saying that. Most people are long retired at that age or have cut back considerably at their jobs regardless of  what occupation they have. Even Carter, who's like 95, said he couldn't have done his job properly as president when he was in his 80's. 

 

I think all three at the top tier are too old, to be honest. But out of these three, Sanders is still my pick, by far.

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That’s why we have VPs. We need Bernie. He knows it. I’ve followed the guy since he was protesting with MLK. He even got arrested. He’s consistent. 

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3 hours ago, I Don’t Search I Find said:

 

Warren is not a progressive. Used to be a republican. She copies everything Bernie does. HRC won the popular vote by 3 million votes. It’s the Electoral College & Gerrymandered GOP congressional districts that overruled the popular vote. The entire election was a sham. Like the one with Bush, but worse. 

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4 hours ago, Kelmadfan said:

Warren is not a progressive. Used to be a republican.

I do think she's progressive but yes, she did use to be a Republican. I don't think we should use that against her though. People change their political affiliation all throughout their lives and let's face it, Warren grew up in OK....I believe she's mentioned how other family members are Republicans so that can definitely impact someone's political affiliation. Clearly, she's learned some things over the years and had a change of heart on many issues. 

Right now, my ideal ticket would be Mayor Pete and Warren. Listening to Mayor Pete talk is just so calming and refreshing. Of course anyone that can string together a coherent sentence with actual substance is a step up from the corrupt goon we have now so, maybe my expectations have been lowered. Imagine though.....a 37 yr old gay man, who let's face it, has more political experience at this point in his career than Trump did pre-2016......now THAT would be progressive but....I know that's most likely not realistic. 

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57 minutes ago, Kurt420 said:

I do think she's progressive but yes, she did use to be a Republican. I don't think we should use that against her though. People change their political affiliation all throughout their lives and let's face it, Warren grew up in OK....I believe she's mentioned how other family members are Republicans so that can definitely impact someone's political affiliation. Clearly, she's learned some things over the years and had a change of heart on many issues. 

Right now, my ideal ticket would be Mayor Pete and Warren. Listening to Mayor Pete talk is just so calming and refreshing. Of course anyone that can string together a coherent sentence with actual substance is a step up from the corrupt goon we have now so, maybe my expectations have been lowered. Imagine though.....a 37 yr old gay man, who let's face it, has more political experience at this point in his career than Trump did pre-2016......now THAT would be progressive but....I know that's most likely not realistic. 

You’re right about lower expectations. I just don’t like Warren. Never did much. But if it’s her against drumpf, I’ll vote Warren. But it always seems it’s the lesser of two evils. USA needs a new political party instead of the two sides of the same coin politic. I first voted for Jimmy Carter, when first able to vote. To me, he was the last decent human president. Obama was good too, but he seemed to like Wall Street a bit more than Main Street. At least Obama wasn’t a sleazebag criminal we got now. I will give him that. I have always voted for a Democrat. 

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5 minutes ago, Kelmadfan said:

You’re right about lower expectations. I just don’t like Warren. Never did much. But if it’s her against drumpf, I’ll vote Warren. But it always seems it’s the lesser of two evils. USA needs a new political party instead of the two sides of the same coin politic. I first voted for Jimmy Carter, when first able to vote. To me, he was the last decent human president. Obama was good too, but he seemed to like Wall Street a bit more than Main Street. At least Obama wasn’t a sleazebag criminal we got now. I will give him that. I have always voted for a Democrat. 

Truthfully, up until recently I have never taken the time to really dig into Warren. I like what I see at this point but, she's definitely seasoned so can understand how others have seen things over the years they may not care for in regard to her. So funny you bring up Jimmy Carter, I was just watching more recent (by recent I mean within last 10 yrs) interviews with him and I agree with you, that is a true decent, genuine man that (seemingly) had the interest of America in mind more than any political agenda. He's REAL. He gets the short end of the stick too......he's often considered the "nothing accomplished" president but that's simply not true. As he said himself, the fact that he was a one term president has tarnished his reputation and puts a dark cloud over the actual accomplishments of his presidency. Have to look at when he came into office too, Watergate, Nixon corruption and Vietnam were all so fresh. Much like Obama, he was handed an absolute mess and did the best he could with that. 

Sort of off topic but one thing that REALLY gets under my skin his how Trump and his cult always site the economy as a talking point to his success......but let's make no mistake, Obama set him up for success in that regard. Everything had been on the upswing for YEARS before Trump was in the picture so I give Trump little to NO credit for the "strong economy". 

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On 10/5/2019 at 4:59 PM, KalamazooJay said:

Too soon? 😂

2100DF37-ECB6-49ED-9241-642226CA87FF.jpeg

Just as horrible as republicans

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Yes. Carter gave up his peanut farm. Trump gave up what now? Obama gave up his Blackberry. Trump has unsecured cell phones. Why does he get away with everything? And others have to follow the rules?

Drumpf is his real surname too. Watch Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. He hilariously explains it. (From a few years ago) 

 

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