Jump to content
MadonnaNation.com Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Junior

BREXIT vote aftermath

Recommended Posts

But right now all the talk is about financial repercussions – plunging markets, recession in Britain and maybe around the world, and so on. I still don’t see it.

Furthermore, Britain is a nation that borrows in its own currency, not subject to a classic balance-sheet crisis due to currency devaluation – that is, it’s not like Argentina, where the fall in the peso wreaked havoc with firms and consumers who had borrowed in dollars. If you were worried that fears about Brexit would cause capital flight and drive up interest rates, well, no sign of that – if anything the opposite. Here, again from Bloomberg, is the interest rate on British 10-year bonds over the past five years:

So calm down about the short-run macroeconomics; grieve for Europe, but you should have been doing that already; worry about Britain.

Krugman's entire article has everything ass backwards. The only thing this guaranteed was piling economic problems on top of political ones.

It's not 1970 and it's not even 1992. The entire world, and the EU especially, is more integrated than it was when it was the UK having influence over a bunch of separate countries.

Actually, the capital flight and job cuts are already happening, and it's because the UK is no longer the most desirable hub in Europe to do business. S&P's credit rating cut directly means that it will be more expensive for the UK to borrow money, because of a loss of investor confidence and the higher risk associated with lending to the UK, regardless whether it has a "crisis as severe as Argentina's" or not. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

Yes, the political problems exist and would have existed regardless of the vote's outcome, because it reflects the state of the world and people's mindset, but the economic uncertainty and suicide was unnecessary and does nothing to move anything forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This about sums it up:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/06/24/david_cameron_has_secured_his_place_as_one_of_the_worst_pms_ever.html

David Cameron may be the worst prime minister in modern British history. That dishonor is typically bestowed upon Neville Chamberlain, who ceded Czechoslovakia to the Nazis in 1938 and will forever be bound to the word appeasement. But poor Nevilles defenders can at least argue the man didnt have many better options, since Britain wasnt necessarily ready to take on Hitlers forces in a war, and the time gained by sacrificing the Czechs allowed it to arm up. On the other hand, Camerons calamitous decision to allow a referendum on whether the U.K. should remain in the European Unionwhich unexpectedly ended in a vote to leave Thursday nightwas a blunder entirely of his own making.

Cameron, who announced Friday that he will resign, did not want to leave the EU. For a long time, he didnt even truly want a referendum on the issue. He felt compelled, however, to appease his partys angry Eurosceptic faction in order to keep a firm hold on power. At the 2015 general election Europe seldom featured in the top 10 of issues listed by voters among their principal concerns; Mr Camerons problem was that for some of his MPs it was the main reason they went into politics, the Financial Times writes. And so Cameron promised to renegotiate the terms of Britains membership in the EU, and then put the question of whether to remain to a popular vote. Some of his fellow Tories, like Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne, thought it was an absurd gamble.* But the prime minister assumed that the British people would choose to stay and that he could put to rest the idea of secession once and for all.

Instead, the Brexit campaign became an outlet for the angry nativism of Englands aging working-class voters, impervious to fact or reasoned judgment. Now the world has to live with its consequences. And, as the terror in the markets and plunging value of the British pound should tell you, not many people outside Englands obscure suburbs and villages think the effects will be worth cheering. The U.K. is about to sever itself from a massive trade bloc, calling into question its own economic future, all while creating the specter that energized anti-European parties in other countries will push for their own secessionist referenda. The far right in the Netherlands and France are already celebrating. Nobody knows what the future holds, of course, but Europes tomorrow looks a lot bleaker than it did before this completely unnecessary vote.

Theoretically, Britain does not have to go through with this idiocy. The referendum is not legally binding. David Cameron doesnt have to push his country off a cliff, just because voters thought it might be fun.

But he seems determined to do so anyway. The will of the British people is an instruction that must be delivered, he said during his resignation speech Friday. He might as well have quoted H.L. Mencken, who wrote, Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

But then again, theres a reason developed democracies dont typically make world-historic decisions by referendum. Voters are fickle. They make decisions in the heat of the moment and change their minds quickly. Twitter has been filled on Friday with stories of regretful Leave voters waking to realize that theyd made a mistake, that theyd never believed Brexit would actually prevail. The final count in a single election can be influenced by freak accidents or the weather; on Thursday, storms flooded much of southeast England and turned Londons evening commute into an unholy mess as trains were delayed and canceled, which surely cost the Remain side some votes. If the result of the Brexit goes poorly, there isnt necessarily anybody to hold accountablea country cant vote itself out of office. Thats all fine if the results of a popular vote are reversible, if youre deciding on whether to legalize marijuana or cap property taxes. But when theyre not? Perhaps its better to leave the decision-making to the people elected to do so. You wouldnt put a war up to a popular up or down vote, since you cant unfire the first shot. The decision to leave Europe forevermore shouldnt have been any different.

Whose will is being represented? The Leave campaign relied largely on the votes of aging English peoplethose younger than 50 generally preferred to remain in the EU. Of course, older people are typically more enthusiastic about voting. But should the rash decision-making of Britains senior citizens really be the factor that decides whether a child born today will get to be a citizen of Europe, whether someone who graduates college in a couple years can work in 27 other countries, or just one?

According to Cameron, it should. Which is why historians will throttle him.

This idea that voters are dumb and, sometimes, at the whim of a few, should be ignored is disturbing. I see this being bandied about quite a bit lately. It's coming as fast as unions suddenly being villified in America because Rush Limbaugh said so. I mean literally in a day, I can still see the CNN headline, and all the rhetoric along with it, that workers rights were destroying the country when for decades that's when America and the middle class was at its most prosperous.

Unions bad.

Now, voting bad.

It's the same damn shit.

"David Cameron shouldn't have to push his country off a cliff just because the voters thought it might be fun."

Yes he does. Voters of the UK elected him to represent them yes? He doesn't solely get to decide on any random Tuesday that he and his buddies wanna do this or that. If he wants change to his powers then get in line and earn it like the rest of us. This business of all these pesky humans getting in the way of running a planet with humans on it needs to stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what else needs to stop? "Old people are stupid." No they're not. They have life experience. Young people are stupid, How 'bout that? God knows I was in my 20s.

"Twitter was awash with Leave people regretting their vote." Suuuuuuuure they were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2n0tzzt.jpg

Departugal :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This idea that voters are dumb and, sometimes, at the whim of a few, should be ignored is disturbing. I see this being bandied about quite a bit lately. It's disturbing. It's coming as fast as unions suddenly being villified in America because Rush Limbaugh said so. I mean literally in a day, I can still see the CNN headline, and all the rhetoric along with it, that workers rights were destroying the country when for decades that's when America and the middle class was at its most prosperous.

Unions bad.

Now, voting bad.

It's the same damn shit.

"David Cameron shouldn't have to push his country off a cliff just because the voters thought it might be fun."

Yes he does. Voters of the UK elected him to represent them yes? He doesn't solely get to decide on any random Tuesday that he and his buddies wanna do this. If he wants change to his powers then get in line and earn it like the rest of us. This business of all these pesky humans getting in the way of running a planet with humans on it needs to stop.

Nobody's saying voters should be ignored on the whim of a few. But voters are often uninformed on major issues with irreversible consequences. Like the article said, we're not talking about making a tax or policy change that can be fixed if it doesn't work out. Countries don't vote to break up or go to war based on the popular vote for this reason because not everyone has all the information to make such far-reaching decisions. Have referendums on social policy issues, sure, but the prospect of secession from the EU should never have been a referendum topic, just as Americans would think it's ludicrous to suggest that secession is a desirable fix for the issues we have with the government.

I feel like you're making a lot of comparisons to the US political situation, when the reality is this is completely different for many reasons most Americans don't understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what else needs to stop? "Old people are stupid." No they're not. They have life experience. Young people are stupid, How 'bout that? God knows I was in my 20s.

"Twitter was awash with Leave people regretting their vote." Suuuuuuuure they were.

They're wedded to nostalgic ideals of the past. Sometimes they vote catastrophically. We've seen that here. So stupid may not be the word, but ignorant and stubborn might be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody's saying voters should be ignored on the whim of a few. But voters are often uninformed on major issues with irreversible consequences. Like the article said, we're not talking about making a tax or policy change that can be fixed if it doesn't work out. Countries don't vote to break up or go to war based on the popular vote for this reason because not everyone has all the information to make such far-reaching decisions. Have referendums on social policy issues, sure, but the prospect of secession from the EU should never have been a referendum topic, just as Americans would think it's ludicrous to suggest that secession is a desirable fix for the issues we have with the government.

I feel like you're making a lot of comparisons to the US political situation, when the reality is this is completely different for many reasons most Americans don't understand.

Bingo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Nobody's saying voters should be ignored on the whim of a few. But voters are often uninformed on major issues with irreversible consequences. Like the article said, we're not talking about making a tax or policy change that can be fixed if it doesn't work out. Countries don't vote to break up or go to war based on the popular vote for this reason because not everyone has all the information to make such far-reaching decisions. Have referendums on social policy issues, sure, but the prospect of secession from the EU should never have been a referendum topic, just as Americans would think it's ludicrous to suggest that secession is a desirable fix for the issues we have with the government.

I feel like you're making a lot of comparisons to the US political situation, when the reality is this is completely different for many reasons most Americans don't understand.

This!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tell you this best be sorted out when I got to the states next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11vnpnb.jpg

OMG I CAN'T :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I learned two weeks ago that there's a new EasyJet lowcost line between a city not far from mine (only 30 minutes from where I live) and London, I was planning to go there a week or two... I think I'll have to hasten my plans and travel very soon! :ohno:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11vnpnb.jpg

Deluxe Extended Edition:

Sorry

Bye Bye Baby

This Used To Be My Playground

Gone

Currently out of print:

Stay

Keep It Together

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

E.U., don't you give up
Its not so bad
There's still a chance for us

E.U., just be yourself
Don't be so shy
There's reasons why its hard

Keep it together, you'll make it all right
Our celebration is going on tonight
Poets and prophets, what ending would we do?
This could be good, E.U.

:sneaky:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crazy for EU

:lmao:

:rotfl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Deluxe Extended Edition:

Sorry

Bye Bye Baby

This Used To Be My Playground

Gone

Currently out of print:

Stay

Keep It Together

:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

E.U., don't you give up

Its not so bad

There's still a chance for us

E.U., just be yourself

Don't be so shy

There's reasons why its hard

Keep it together, you'll make it all right

Our celebration is going on tonight

Poets and prophets, what ending would we do?

This could be good, E.U.

:sneaky:

OMG :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

E.U., don't you give up

Its not so bad

There's still a chance for us

E.U., just be yourself

Don't be so shy

There's reasons why its hard

Keep it together, you'll make it all right

Our celebration is going on tonight

Poets and prophets, what ending would we do?

This could be good, E.U.

:sneaky:

I'm deceased :lmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

E.U., don't you give up

Its not so bad

There's still a chance for us

E.U., just be yourself

Don't be so shy

There's reasons why its hard

Keep it together, you'll make it all right

Our celebration is going on tonight

Poets and prophets, what ending would we do?

This could be good, E.U.

:sneaky:

:lmao::lmao::lmao::dead:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This will now come into effect






EU banking watchdog to leave London in case of Brexit - chairman


Cattura_zpsbxoxsc06.jpg



The European Union's banking watchdog will move from London to another European capital if Britain decides to quit the bloc in a referendum this week, its chairman said in an interview published on Sunday.


Britain votes on June 23 on whether to stay in the 28-member bloc, a choice with far-reaching consequences for politics, the economy, defence and diplomacy on the continent.


The London-based EBA, founded in 2011 as a reaction to the global financial crisis, operates as a pan-EU regulator, writing and coordinating banking rules across the bloc.



"If the British should decide to leave the EU, we actually would have to move to another European capital," Andrea Enria, head of the European Banking Authority (EBA), told the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag.


While betting odds have consistently indicated a vote to remain in the EU, opinion pollsters have so far painted contradictory pictures of how Britons will vote.


The EBA is currently working on an EU single rulebook aimed at ensuring a level playing field for all banks across the 28-country bloc's capital market.


"This work needs to be completed irrespective of the result of the referendum," said Enria, an Italian national. "We must ensure that there are no different rules between the countries that have the euro and those that do not have it."


Enria said the European banking sector was more stable now than five years ago, but there was still need for consolidation.


"If you look at the balance sheets of banks, you could actually ask yourself whether such low profitability and such low return on investment are sustainable in the long term," he said.


Banks should speed up their efforts to deal with non-performing loans and change their internal business culture in order to avoid future scandals and fines, Enria said.


That banks have hardly made any progress in these two areas is the reason why the European Central Bank (ECB) is struggling to boost lending and generate more growth despite its bond-purchase programme, he added.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

E.U., don't you give up

Its not so bad

There's still a chance for us

E.U., just be yourself

Don't be so shy

There's reasons why its hard

Keep it together, you'll make it all right

Our celebration is going on tonight

Poets and prophets, what ending would we do?

This could be good, E.U.

:sneaky:

We need a BritAid! Where's Geldof? Madonna should totally perform this! It's too perfect. lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been an interesting day. And infact the most shocking thing of all of this is really how uninformed many many people who voted "leave" were. CNN International asked people on the street and there was this guy who was probably in his late 30s or early 40s who was almost shaking because he was so emotional about his "independence" claming he never wanted to join the EU in the first place. WOW! What a bold statement from someone who was not even born when the UK joined the EU. By referendum by the way. And this was a landslide win with two thirds in favor of joining. Why? Because the UK was in a horrible economic shape back then and saw the advantages of a common single market. Ever since, this common single market has brought growth and stability to the UK. This all from an economic point of view. I could start talking about how the EU pumped money in regions like Wales for infrastructure or how farmers received lots of subsidies to keep their businesses going. I could start talking about Northern Ireland and what the EU did there. The list of EUs contributions is rather long. It is shocking how almost none of this was acknowledged by Brexiteers and taken into consideration by "Leave" voters. Again, it shows a huge lack of proper information and it all came down to immigration.

And can someone please explain to me why a simple majority was enough for that decision? Shouldn't there be an like a two/third majority for such wide ranging decisions? I mean a two/third majority is a safety measure, usually need when it comes to constitutional matters, to make sure that certain important rights cannot be changed or taken away easily. Let's face it, a simple majority is relatively easy to achieve since people can be so easily swayed. Yes, people are that dumb. And as a result you have a split country. The situation in the UK must be horrible considering that more or less the same amount of people voted for either side and half of the nation may face the consequences for the votes other people cast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to add that Nigel Farage is an evil person. His victory speech. "... normal, decent people .." What a disgusting man. Christiane Amanpour was great asking him what that makes the other roughly 50 percent of voters. Of course he had nothing to say to that.

And Donald Trump? Seriously? What a dumb f'ck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And can someone please explain to me why a simple majority was enough for that decision? Shouldn't there be an like a two/third majority for such wide ranging decisions? I mean a two/third majority is a safety measure, usually need when it comes to constitutional matters, to make sure that certain important rights cannot be changed or taken away easily. Let's face it, a simple majority is relatively easy to achieve since people can be so easily swayed. Yes, people are that dumb. And as a result you have a split country. The situation in the UK must be horrible considering that more or less the same amount of people voted for either side and half of the nation may face the consequences for the votes other people cast.

Yes, that's a very good point. You have to have a super majority of 2/3 of states to amend the US constitution. Why was this just a simple majority? The leave option only won by 4 points or something like that which isn't much. Who set up the procedure for the referendum, was it the current UK government or the EU?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She used to be my neighbour in Redcliff Square, always parking her fucking Jaguar ON the sidewalk close to her backyard's wall. What's her "career" since Hugh Grant left her by the way ?

frt.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pud Whacker

Is there anybody who is happy about this decision?

Again, I am a libra. When I see one side tipping so far, I run to the other side for balance sake. By nature. It's built in.

I see not ONE HAPPY PERSON about this?!!!

Isn't that bizarre?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there anybody who is happy about this decision?

Again, I am a libra. When I see one side tipping so far, I run to the other side for balance sake. By nature. It's built in.

I see not ONE HAPPY PERSON about this?!!!

Isn't that bizarre?

Putin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...