Roland Barthes Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I hesitated to start this topic but that's something that's bugging me for a few days now and there's nowhere else i can talk about it. On my FB and Twitter people are so mean and vicious like she's some kind of bimbo or lesser pop singer. It's coming to the point where i don't even want to post anything about her because i get into arguments with people in the comments and i end up removing them or hating them for real even though it's jsut the internet (and i feel so silly for it afterwards). It's like a sport. I don't know what's their problem. It's always the usual ageist shit but it's also the even older "She has not released a decent album in years" without even having listening to Rebel Heart. I don't know where the hate comes from since it was not like this a few years ago. I feel like i'm back in 1993. Did Hard Candy and the mediocre MDNA killed her vibe ? Is it because of Instagram ? David & Mercy's adoptions ? Because she's 56 and unapologetic ? Dating who she wants to date, dressing the way she wants to dress....in a word because she's totaly free ? It's like she's not kitsch enough to be admired as a nostalgia thing (Spice girls, Kylie) and too famous and popular to be regarded as edgy. She's attacked by right wingers as much as she is by leftists, like she's the one thing they seem to agree on. She's vocal about what she thinks contrary to the other popstars, she has opinions and she makes them known. She's 56, she's clever, if she wanted public's approval she knows exactly what to do : ray of light 2, shut up, dress up and apologize for past behaviours. That's what they all seem to want her to do or be. I hate Ray of light for this, because she cut off a huge part of who she is : sexual and controversial. It might sounds snobbish but i hated how suddenly people liked her. When i see all the hatred directed at her i think about what an ex who is a professional swimmer told me once : You never attack people who are at the bottom, there's no point in it and it's cruel, you only go after people at the top, leaders because it's a competition and there's only one medal that matters. For commoners it means putting down someone who achieved so much and keeps on doing her thing, on her own terms is an insult. Her hard work and ethic is repulsive to people who do not value that. Madonna should make people feel good about themself by showing them it's possible to achieve dreams and goals, to fight time, to live your life to the fullest....instead it looks like it only reminds them they don't go after their dreams. She also never got into a real scandal (except for David & Mercy which was all set up by the media), she never went to rehab, had a disease, really hit rock bottom like every star do at one time, she's not alcoholic or a drug addict and it's something people want stars to be so they can put them down,mock them and in a way make them pay for putting them on a pedestal. People love losers because they don't feel threatened by them. Madonna seems superhuman. So as much as it pains and enrages me to read all these mean things about her, diminishing her work, i take it as proof she's at the top and pushing buttons. She's being Madonna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Tune out the hate. It's always been there and always will be. There are too many people who can't or refuse to see her for who she is. There are people who are jealous about who she is. And then there are people who just don't care either way and are happy to jump on whatever bandwagon they think is more popular. She'll never be loved by everyone, and honestly I don't think she wants to be. We're lucky enough to get her because we get to fully experience the greatest star that ever lived. I feel sorry for those who don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrSky Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 If all the hate directed at Madonna proves anything, it's that she's still relevant. You don't talk about irrelevant people, in any way (good or bad). She's been criticized her entire career, the particular angle just shifts a bit at different times and sometimes recur. I've given up reading comment threads on the internet because it seems that some people have nothing better to do than troll threads of artists they don't like (or who they perceive as competition or a threat to their favourite) just to smear their snotty little opinions there. Honestly. I'll never understand it.I don't think the criticism is more intense, I just think it's more in-your-face than before because social media has made everyone think they're a deeply intelligent critic whose opinions matter to the rest of the world. And the great bonus for them is that they can hide behind a pseudonym, or even if they don't, they don't have to face any real world consequences. They're not writing for a magazine where they are answerable to an editor, so they don't have to be raked over the coals for being unprofessional etc.Every time someone says Madonna is 'irrelevant', I have to chuckle. They don't understand how this works, do they? You can't make someone unfamous and irrelevant by discussing them -- even in a negative way.Long may she reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamifero Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 In 1983 some "music critic" said her career wouldn't last 6 months Don't let the hate in, keep #livingforlove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Barthes Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 I agree with the bandwagonning thing. People are so desperate to be cool. They all love the same things and do the same things at the same time. that's why i stopped. The sad thing is that my contacts are not just bloggers or people on social networks but journalists, reviewers, comedians....It's like they have this image of fat people with pink stetsons from the Music era stuck in their heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLVC82 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 While they hate....MADONNA laughs all the way to the bank! and we!!!! get to experience and appreciate the greatest female performer/artist of all time! When she leaves us...every hater will say how much they loved her....trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george28 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Lol I love how some desperate people and "journalists" are trying so hard to put a sticker on Madonna as "irrelevant" because really, if she is so irrelevant why don't you just let her be? Why write articles that sound so immature and unprofessional, why start forum topics and threads just so that you can try and harm a career of three decades with your hate? Well the way I see it the more hate they try to spread the only thing they are doing is contradicting their idiotic beliefs and making Madonna more relevant rather than irrelevant and when they try to put her down with stupid issues like her age, because in reality what else can they really use against her? they will always have to deal with us the fans who will always throw in their face how stupid they are and how untouchable Madge really is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loowee Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Madonna has been hated on since 1983 though What's new? It is a sign that her career is still going strong. She ALWAYS gets an incredible amount of hate and criticisms every era except ROL/Music/COADF. Welcome to her world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjewell88 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 It has ALWAYS been this way. Her career has only had short spurts of critical praise. Most of the rest of the time she's been resented because of her willingness to challenge societies norms about femininity, sexuality, and now expectations about age. It is what has made her so reviled but also why she has had such a successful and long lasting impact on our culture. I'd much rather have her career than be a critical darling one day and then forgotten the next like Whitney, Celine, Mariah, or Cyndi. And yes one day in 5-10 years Taylor, Katy and Rihanna will be added to that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 She taps into things that make them uncomfortable, maybe even fearful. As others have said, it's always been this way. As just one of countless examples. Picture a hot young woman in her early 20s who was calling Madonna "old" back in 1995. Now that same woman has aged and can't stand the fact that Madonna looks hotter than she does in 2015. I have learned to ignore. It's difficult. The one I will usually not let go is that she can't sing. That's just a media lie that mindless people have chosen to run with for three decades. I've always maintained that people either get Madonna or they don't. The world can be divided into these camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Barthes Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 the thing that kills is seeing them praise airheads and bimbos and then going on and on about feminism etc....they hate women. They want women to be mothers and young and that's it. Sometimes i jst want to slap them because they praise such shitty things at least if they praised good things but no : shit. I swear i'm about to quit a job at a magazine because i can't stand writing for these assholes anymore because of Madonna but also because of how wnob they are in general when they are absolutely not the shit. I see dictators, ugly dictators on top of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFMT Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 God knows this topic has been discussed a million times, but I think the hatred for Madonna boils down to the fact that she's stayed more or less consistently successful for thirty years. The 'build them up and knock them down' thing has never really stuck with M. She's had periods where she sold fewer albums or was less successful critically, only to come back bigger and better. Another thing is that she's never really fallen off the wagon in her personal life. That's to say she's never had a drug problem, a drinking problem, gotten a DUI, gotten fat, or any of those other things celebs do in their personal lives that make them easy targets. She's got incredible self discipline and a good head on her shoulders. And people hate it. The next time you read or hear some hateful comment about M, pay attention to what the person is saying. Chances are they're saying something about her age, or her veiny hands. Seriously. Those are the only two cards they have to play, because they have to reach and reach to find something nasty to say about her. It's all par for the course as a Madonna fan. But the arguments against her just keep getting weaker and weaker as she inches towards 35 years on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lautnerfied Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 God knows this topic has been discussed a million times, but I think the hatred for Madonna boils down to the fact that she's stayed more or less consistently successful for thirty years. The 'build them up and knock them down' thing has never really stuck with M. She's had periods where she sold fewer albums or was less successful critically, only to come back bigger and better. Another thing is that she's never really fallen off the wagon in her personal life. That's to say she's never had a drug problem, a drinking problem, gotten a DUI, gotten fat, or any of those other things celebs do in their personal lives that make them easy targets. She's got incredible self discipline and a good head on her shoulders. And people hate it. The next time you read or hear some hateful comment about M, pay attention to what the person is saying. Chances are they're saying something about her age, or her veiny hands. Seriously. Those are the only two cards they have to play, because they have to reach and reach to find something nasty to say about her. It's all par for the course as a Madonna fan. But the arguments against her just keep getting weaker and weaker as she inches towards 35 years on top. The age is the only card they have. Because success certainly isn't it. And people don't like that Madonna looks better than they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Jealousy is a lousy thing and I pity the people who are inflicted with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5iVe Elements Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Because haters are sheep. In this world, successful people are hated by those who are lazy asses and who secretly wishes to be as successful as that but can't achieve what M has achieved because they are lazy and entitled fucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 The hate will never go away. I've finally accepted that fact. It's because she's a rebel, she always has been. That's why I love her. I tune it out. All that's important to me is her wonderful music and the good things that she believes in. Her gift to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pud Whacker Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I hesitated to start this topic but that's something that's bugging me for a few days now and there's nowhere else i can talk about it. On my FB and Twitter people are so mean and vicious like she's some kind of bimbo or lesser pop singer. It's coming to the point where i don't even want to post anything about her because i get into arguments with people in the comments and i end up removing them or hating them for real even though it's jsut the internet (and i feel so silly for it afterwards). It's like a sport. I don't know what's their problem. It's always the usual ageist shit but it's also the even older "She has not released a decent album in years" without even having listening to Rebel Heart. I don't know where the hate comes from since it was not like this a few years ago. I feel like i'm back in 1993. Did Hard Candy and the mediocre MDNA killed her vibe ? Is it because of Instagram ? David & Mercy's adoptions ? Because she's 56 and unapologetic ? Dating who she wants to date, dressing the way she wants to dress....in a word because she's totaly free ? It's like she's not kitsch enough to be admired as a nostalgia thing (Spice girls, Kylie) and too famous and popular to be regarded as edgy. She's attacked by right wingers as much as she is by leftists, like she's the one thing they seem to agree on. She's vocal about what she thinks contrary to the other popstars, she has opinions and she makes them known. She's 56, she's clever, if she wanted public's approval she knows exactly what to do : ray of light 2, shut up, dress up and apologize for past behaviours. That's what they all seem to want her to do or be. I hate Ray of light for this, because she cut off a huge part of who she is : sexual and controversial. It might sounds snobbish but i hated how suddenly people liked her. When i see all the hatred directed at her i think about what an ex who is a professional swimmer told me once : You never attack people who are at the bottom, there's no point in it and it's cruel, you only go after people at the top, leaders because it's a competition and there's only one medal that matters. For commoners it means putting down someone who achieved so much and keeps on doing her thing, on her own terms is an insult. Her hard work and ethic is repulsive to people who do not value that. Madonna should make people feel good about themself by showing them it's possible to achieve dreams and goals, to fight time, to live your life to the fullest....instead it looks like it only reminds them they don't go after their dreams. She also never got into a real scandal (except for David & Mercy which was all set up by the media), she never went to rehab, had a disease, really hit rock bottom like every star do at one time, she's not alcoholic or a drug addict and it's something people want stars to be so they can put them down,mock them and in a way make them pay for putting them on a pedestal. People love losers because they don't feel threatened by them. Madonna seems superhuman. So as much as it pains and enrages me to read all these mean things about her, diminishing her work, i take it as proof she's at the top and pushing buttons. She's being Madonna. Publicly, I notice that it's acceptable to only attack the strong or beautiful. The fat, disabled, or minority MUST be left alone or the PC police come running after you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnino Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Simple answer: jealousy She's been doing what she wants, how she wants and when she wants for decades. Bitch, she's Madonna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 People have always loved to hate her and - sadly - they will continue to do so, using whatever argument (old, desperate, irrelevant, untalented, calculated, stupid ... you name it) What I did is simply tune out. This forum is pretty much my resource for Madonna news, I don't use FB, I don't tweet I don't interact with crazy fanatics in other forums. Simply don't engage with them because it's stupid - what for? you won't change everybody's mind and only end up feeling angry and getting bitter. I'm busy and challenged enough in my job, I don't need any extra drama. The way I see it, Madonna is mine. She inspires me, she gives me joy and energy and I don't need to play missionary to other people. I cherish her and that's all I want. So, enjoy her and don't pay any attention to what other people think or comment - it's a waste of energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nefarious Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Everyone already said what I wanted to say, so I'll be brief. I'm actually glad that Madonna is such a polarizing figure, because she's always been that way. I wouldn't ever want for her to be universally accepted like some other basic pop stars. I don't want her to be easy to digest. I like that she pushes buttons with everything she does, whether it's sexuality or gay rights or like now, fighting against ageism. She has never gotten the type of media support other pop singers get and she likely never will. But that's because she is more than a pop singer, she is a revolutionary for women in pop as far as I'm concerned. You don't get to be a pioneer in anything without some serious backlash. In retrospect, many many decades from now when people look at Madonna, she will be showered in endless praise for the things she's done, for the boundaries she's broken. I wish people could appreciate her for that now, but unfortunately a lot of them don't. That's why they latch onto a hive-mind mentality of what the media feeds them. It's sad, but in the end it's their loss. They just don't understand Madonna and probably never will. I guess in a way you just have to make peace with it and forgive them. As Madonna said in Truth or Dare, "everything you don't know, you're forgiven for". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmark Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 NOBODY can take away the fact that she is a legend and is one of the most well known names in history. Probably it is because she is just SO well known (and a woman still doing pop music) that people pick on her. But she does whatever the HELL she wants, so the hate is powerless. You have to make it powerless as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eroticerotic Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 hate and agism, sexism, etc has always been around. i think though because Madonna is visible and we love her that it seems like it's just her, it really isn't though. The good thing about her is that she is one of the few visible people that utilizes her means and her voice to challenge certain views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick00 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Agree with others ageism, sexism, misogyny & even heterosexism/homophobia. History continues to be currently filled with societies demanding straight women and LGBT persons to repress their sexuality! What happens to M is not very different in some regard to how relatively "younger" gay guys vilify older gay guys for their open sexuality. Everyone needs to understand people are living much longer & fighting to maintain their vitality & contribution to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Heartbreaker Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 The way I see it, Madonna is mine. She inspires me, she gives me joy and energy and I don't need to play missionary to other people. I cherish her and that's all I want. So, enjoy her and don't pay any attention to what other people think or comment - it's a waste of energy. Amen, to that! I don't need the masses to dictate who I listen to or should cherish. Jealousy and hate are sicknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDonner Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 of all the shit flung at her, it's the ageism thing that truly bothers me. i'm glad she's not prancing around playing lady of the manor anymore. i never felt like that was real...it seemed like she was swallowing who she really is to appease guy R. and to a certain extent, the general public. i know it disappoints a lot of fans, but i was thrilled when she started acting up again as soon as the ink was barely dry on the divorce papers. to me, this is what Madonna SHOULD be doing at 56. fucking shit up, doing whatever she wants, making people uncomfortable and causing them to THINK. if Madonna isn't going to change perceptions about what an 'older' female can and can't do then who is? none of the skanks we have around today are going to, that's for sure. i think a big part of the reason the ageism bothers me so much is because i work with senior citizens. so it hits close to home. i work with one lady who is 98, still wears bright makeup, puts jewelry on pretty much any inch of bare skin she can, still shows her cleavage and legs, talks about 'fucking' and swears like a sailor. she even has a 'younger' (64) man! and she's fucking amazing! it's bullshit that society tries to dictate that once a woman is a certain age, she needs to take up knitting and go sit in her rocking chair and wait to die. we're ALL going to age, even these assholes bashing Madonna for not caving into society's pressure that she needs to go grow old and die. it might not change in her lifetime, but i have no doubt in my mind that one day people will praise her for this part of her career, and the way she challenged and helped change these stupid notions of what older people are allowed to do. i can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollap Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I think it's a very interesting topic, and the fact that everyone has an opinion about her makes her one of the most important public figures of our times. I think there are several reasons why she is hated by a loud minority. 1. She doesn't show her weaknesses. People (I.e. The Press) hate those who appear too strong, there is an envy/jealousy/insecurity that many people feel when they see how strong and driving she is. They want to see a chink in the armour and she won't play ball. If only the fools new that her vulnerability was in her music if you look carefully 2. She is ever present in the Press. No other artist has lasted this long so continuously in the public eye and it exhausts some people (certain sections of the public) 3. She has an opinion without having a conventional education. Some people (e.g. Guardian readers) feel that mere pop singers have no right to an opinion especially female ones who show their tits a lot 4. Certain women. Mostly women who feel that she raises the bar too high for them, so they denigrate her to make themselves feel better 5. People who want to appear cool. Because Madonna still makes big tune pop music/chart music rather than disappearing into alt indie obscurity, this does not pass as cool in peer group conversations. You therefore have to say you hate her to appear cool. Some bitchy gays even do this. 6. Religious groups/conservative types. Obvious reasons. There are many more reasons, but these I think are the biggies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iasonas Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I had an argument with my roommates a few days ago and they kept saying she hasn't released anything good since 2005. What happened to her. Unfortunately she hasn't had a huge impact on the general public since the Confessions era. More and more people around me call her irrelevant and unable to score a hit. I just don't care anymore. Too busy to spend time arguing with people. Also, the fact that she has signed a contract that transformed her from the queen of radios (apart from the US and some other English speaking countries where the struggle started earlier) to a completely irrelevant act in terms of airplay worldwide does not help either with the public's views. Her hits was always the easiest way to shut their mouths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donuts Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Hasn't there always been some type of hatered towards her or any famous high ranking figure? This IS the internet, from anyone to Oprah to Mother Theresa, peole will always find way to bitch about anything and anyone. In Madonna's case, I think she already expexts it but its her haters that unintentionaly create her need to have a platform whether its freedom of expression when she started out or standing up to the fact that you can be sexual AND totally in control as woman w/o being ashamed or nowadays (in the past decade) she's standing up against ageism So in some way,I think "haters" have more to do with her longevity and persona than the fans lol, they give her a reason to prove them wrong and stand strong on her convictions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Heartbreaker Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I think it's a very interesting topic, and the fact that everyone has an opinion about her makes her one of the most important public figures of our times. I think there are several reasons why she is hated by a loud minority. 1. She doesn't show her weaknesses. People (I.e. The Press) hate those who appear too strong, there is an envy/jealousy/insecurity that many people feel when they see how strong and driving she is. They want to see a chink in the armour and she won't play ball. If only the fools new that her vulnerability was in her music if you look carefully 2. She is ever present in the Press. No other artist has lasted this long so continuously in the public eye and it exhausts some people (certain sections of the public) 3. She has an opinion without having a conventional education. Some people (e.g. Guardian readers) feel that mere pop singers have no right to an opinion especially female ones who show their tits a lot 4. Certain women. Mostly women who feel that she raises the bar too high for them, so they denigrate her to make themselves feel better 5. People who want to appear cool. Because Madonna still makes big tune pop music/chart music rather than disappearing into alt indie obscurity, this does not pass as cool in peer group conversations. You therefore have to say you hate her to appear cool. Some bitchy gays even do this. 6. Religious groups/conservative types. Obvious reasons. There are many more reasons, but these I think are the biggies Well thought out and said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 She has always been 20 years ahead of her time , even now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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