madonnasuperfan01 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 That's just excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5iVe Elements Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Who is this goddess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jan Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Who is this goddess? Her name tag says Marion. Let's make Marion one of our forum staple gifs as she is wonderful. Thanks Heartbeat for bringing Marion to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5iVe Elements Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yes, please. Can we make that a new laughing gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) you can disagree, that okay. The point is Madonna's career and relevancy was already being questioned with side eye from a lot of people. Ray of Light was the best album at the best time. She was nervous too...ROL was experimental and courageous and opening the doors to a long lasting career.... Madonna was going to make ROL with or without WO. Part of what makes the album great and courageous is her choice of songwriting partners. Her choice of using him as a producer was a stroke of genius at the time, but I don't think anyone but the usual suspects were giving her the side eye... Those same critics are giving her the side eye to this very day. William orbit is good at what he does, but to hold him in any way responsible for Madonna's career sustenance is a little foolish and ALOT selling her short as a sonwriter and producer. He is, I think in his wordy and clumsy way, giving her compliments now for her skills as both. And, i agree that he has a right to his opinion. when you've worked with someone one way (ROL, M) and then to do it again in a completely different way (MDNA) he has his right to compare. And since his name is on those tracks as a writer/producer he does have the ABSOLUTE right to talk about the way those songs are mixed. Edited June 22, 2014 by madryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pud Whacker Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Very WELL SAID as always Pud. you knwo whats well said, aggie?!!! THIS FUCKING PHOTO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TearsInHeaven Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 you knwo whats well said, aggie?!!! THIS FUCKING PHOTO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madonnasuperfan01 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Madonna was going to make ROL with or without WO. Part of what makes the album great and courageous is her choice of songwriting partners. Her choice of using him as a producer was a stroke of genius at the time, but I don't think anyone but the usual suspects were giving her the side eye... Those same critics are giving her the side eye to this very day. William orbit is good at what he does, but to hold him in any way responsible for Madonna's career sustenance is a little foolish and ALOT selling her short as a sonwriter and producer. He is, I think in his wordy and clumsy way, giving her compliments now for her skills as both. Well said! You see, that's something i find annoying on here sometimes. Some fans seem to often credit Madonna's producers as the mastermind behind the whole thing. As if, in their minds, they're the ones doing all the job. I mean, when Avicii was announced as one of the producers for the new album, some fans freaked out and automatically assumed that the album would be crap because of it, as if he would be the one doing the whole thing without any contribution from Madonna. I also can't remember how many times i read things like: "Oh that song/album is SO good, William Orbit/Patrick Leonard/Joe Henry are such good songwriters!" "She need to work with Patrick Leonard again, his melodies/lyrics are amazing!"... I could go on and on. It really makes me wonder how much faith some fans have in Madonna's songwriting contributions. They really seem to think, maybe unconsciously, that her producers are basically doing the whole job since the beginning of her career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannylex Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Let's face it, MDNA is her worst album and Hard Candy her best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelHart Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) but to hold him in any way responsible for Madonna's career sustenance is a little foolish and ALOT selling her short as a sonwriter and producer you're making my opinion and that of many others, into something its not. No one ever said he was responsible and somehow a GOD of Madonna music...that's pat leonard... I think tho he deserves credit for the work he did on a HUGE album for her ...artistically and commercially-during a crucial time in her career... whether you think ROL is shit, at the end of the day it was special. Some fans just refuse to allow successful albums be successful or shity albums be shitty... shes not putting out music for the fans only. Edited June 22, 2014 by RebelHart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erotica blu Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well said! You see, that's something i find annoying on here sometimes. Some fans seem to often credit Madonna's producers as the mastermind behind the whole thing. As if, in their minds, they're the ones doing all the job. I mean, when Avicii was announced as one of the producers for the new album, some fans freaked out and automatically assumed that the album would be crap because of it, as if he would be the one doing the whole thing without any contribution from Madonna. I also can't remember how many times i read things like: "Oh that song/album is SO good, William Orbit/Patrick Leonard/Joe Henry are such good songwriters!" "She need to work with Patrick Leonard again, his melodies/lyrics are amazing!"... I could go on and on. It really makes me wonder how much faith some fans have in Madonna's songwriting contributions. They really seem to think, maybe unconsciously, that her producers are basically doing the whole job since the beginning of her career. Madonna is a vocalist and lyricist. Her collaborators are the musicians who bring their musicianship to the final recording. If Madonna works with Babyface it will not mirror the work she does with Shep Pettibone because each man has his own approach and expertise. Madonna will not have a credit that says most of the instrumentation and arrangements are done by her. She has musicality but there are limitations that are not limitations when you're genre is dance pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrolla Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I think I always used to give her too much credit. I always assumed it was kind of 50/50 when she listed as a co writer. When there are so many examples where she just changed a few lyrics, like with Don't Tell Me, Ray of Light, etc. And she has never written/produced a song by herself. Not being negative, just being realistic. It wouldn't bother me if she started recording music where she had little input into the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macromad Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I think that the general public underestimate Madonna's talent as a lyricist and producer, yes she may not be the one that makes technical work or write the lyrics out of nowhere, but she knows what she wants, how she wants the songs to sound, she probably decides where to put more drums, or strings or a synthline, she twitches the lyrics to make them more personal. Madonna is not Rihanna who only receives the songs and just puts her voice on them, Madonna works all day and night with her team and takes part in the decisions. And back on topic. Orbit's songs in MDNA are the best (except for Some Girls), the only songs from the other producers that compete with his are I Don't Give A, I'm Addicted and Beautiful Killer. MDNA could have been much better if Superstar, Some Girls and GMAYL would have been replaced with Beautiful Killer, I Fucked Up and Best Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelHart Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Madonna is a vocalist and lyricist. Her collaborators are the musicians who bring their musicianship to the final recording. If Madonna works with Babyface it will not mirror the work she does with Shep Pettibone because each man has his own approach and expertise. Madonna will not have a credit that says most of the instrumentation and arrangements are done by her. She has musicality but there are limitations that are not limitations when you're genre is dance pop. yes. she isn't everything guys. what she IS though, is more than a lot of other pop stars. She really for the most part is directing the whole thing. That's what I love about her. very hands on approach ...at the end of the day though, she is limited and needs help with chords, melodies, technical stuff etc...the producers she works with are also artists in their own right and bring creativity to the table... and also, Madonna has a long, and recent, history of covering fully produced demos, changing a word or two...so if its a great song, its safe to say the producer who made the demo does deserves the lion share of the credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macromad Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I think I always used to give her too much credit. I always assumed it was kind of 50/50 when she listed as a co writer. When there are so many examples where she just changed a few lyrics, like with Don't Tell Me, Ray of Light, etc. And she has never written/produced a song by herself. Not being negative, just being realistic. It wouldn't bother me if she started recording music where she had little input into the process. Well, she may not have produced a song by herself but she wrote Lucky Star, Everybody, I Know It, Think Of Me, Burning Up, Shoo Bee Doo and Gambler by herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightcutter Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I also can't remember how many times i read things like: "Oh that song/album is SO good, William Orbit/Patrick Leonard/Joe Henry are such good songwriters!" "She need to work with Patrick Leonard again, his melodies/lyrics are amazing!"... I could go on and on. It really makes me wonder how much faith some fans have in Madonna's songwriting contributions. They really seem to think, maybe unconsciously, that her producers are basically doing the whole job since the beginning of her career. Fans say these things after she works with Sloveig and delivers TUTR and GMAYL. And when she works with Timbaland and gives us Nelly Furtado left overs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrolla Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 She wrote Everybody/Burning Up with Steve Bray, for sure, they just made some deal where he took credit for some and she did for others. Not sure about Lucky Star. But at least those were true collaborations, not just take a demo, change a lyric situations. Shoo Be Doo and Gambler are some of her worst songs ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vogue992 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well, she may not have produced a song by herself but she wrote Lucky Star, Everybody, I Know It, Think Of Me, Burning Up, Shoo Bee Doo and Gambler by herself. you're wasting your time even when her collaborators have nothing but praise for her work as a songwriter/producer (like william in the interview posted in this thread - and this is only the last one from a very very long list), how much she is in control and how much she IS talented and actually is one of the few popstars that writes lyrics, melodies and actually produces her music, some "fans" keep questioning her talent and involvement during the making of her albums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrolla Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Fans say these things after she works with Sloveig and delivers TUTR and GMAYL. And when she works with Timbaland and gives us Nelly Furtado left overs. I agree, that's why I think she should have had to wisdom to realize those Timbaland/JT tracks were terrible and produced more of the album with Pharell or someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 you're making my opinion and that of many others, into something its not. No one ever said he was responsible and somehow a GOD of Madonna music...that's pat leonard... I think tho he deserves credit for the work he did on a HUGE album for her ...artistically and commercially-during a crucial time in her career... whether you think ROL is shit, at the end of the day it was special. Some fans just refuse to allow successful albums be successful or shity albums be shitty... shes not putting out music for the fans only. I love the ROL album, it's the soundtrack of my so many good times of my early 20's. I do think WO does deserve credit, just not to the extremes that some fans have taken it to. Madonna has ,and I feel continue to, push forward with her sound... And she makes albums for herself, if people buy them great, and has been the case in the past and present: if they don't, oh well. She's not gonna stop until she doesn't have anything to say. Having followed her career and being a fan from the very beginning, I don't treat certain songs or albums or eras as if they were in competition with each other by different artists, I see some fans do do this. Not saying you're one of them, just clarifying my statement. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erotica blu Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 you're wasting your time even when her collaborators have nothing but praise for her work as a songwriter/producer (like william in the interview posted in this thread - and this is only the last one from a very very long list), how much she is in control and how much she IS talented and actually is one of the few popstars that writes lyrics, melodies and actually produces her music, some "fans" keep questioning her talent and involvement during the making of her albums No one is suggesting Madonna lays there while her hired help does all the work. But she has as much musicality as Michael. She's nobody's Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I would have also dropped three four of the six tracks produced by the other guys, they were not good enough in my opinion; GMAYL GGW Turn Up the Radio Superstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloane Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 And where's our dear HolidayGuy to set you bitches straight on the ACCLAIM aspect? ROL may have brought her respect from the industry, but it's LAP that more than often is her only album to make "Greatest" and "Best of" lists. Not that it matters, Madonna doesn't dwell on the past and prefers to move forward, so she probably doesn't give two fucks about critical acclaim and nostalgia. She has such an expansive discography, everyone has a favourite album and era - that's the beauty of being a Madonna fan. In terms of the total package and marketing of the product, Like A Prayer is her best album but when it comes to actually putting the needle on the record, it's ROL. That being said, when I listen to an M album from start to finish, it's typically Confessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloane Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Why is MDNA being bashed for not having a narrative or a theme like ROL or COADF while we had Madonna and LAV who were similar too? They didn't have a narrative or a cohesive theme but that didn't make them terrible albums. MDNA may not be what most expected but it's not that terrible as some make it out to be. MDNA had a theme. It was Madonna reclaiming everything that was stolen from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macromad Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 you're wasting your time even when her collaborators have nothing but praise for her work as a songwriter/producer (like william in the interview posted in this thread - and this is only the last one from a very very long list), how much she is in control and how much she IS talented and actually is one of the few popstars that writes lyrics, melodies and actually produces her music, some "fans" keep questioning her talent and involvement during the making of her albums I know some of them are pretty bad I was just making the point that she HAS actually written some songs on her own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 you're wasting your time even when her collaborators have nothing but praise for her work as a songwriter/producer (like william in the interview posted in this thread - and this is only the last one from a very very long list), how much she is in control and how much she IS talented and actually is one of the few popstars that writes lyrics, melodies and actually produces her music, some "fans" keep questioning her talent and involvement during the making of her albums I know. I can't figure it out but it's annoying. As far as opinions go, these are opinions about something pretty substantial. You're not going to get "oh gee that's interesting." If William or anyone else were to say something negative about her they would believe it in a second. Is it because she's a woman and doesn't walk around with a chip on her shoulder about how no one sees how wonderful she is? She doesn't care to stamp her feet or cry about how people don't understand her art. She basically let's people think and say whatever they want about her. It's frustrating for those of us who give her critics the time of day. If people make decisions based solely on how things appear than they can be easily manipulated. Believe me it's easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelHart Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 you're wasting your time even when her collaborators have nothing but praise for her work as a songwriter/producer (like william in the interview posted in this thread - and this is only the last one from a very very long list), how much she is in control and how much she IS talented and actually is one of the few popstars that writes lyrics, melodies and actually produces her music, some "fans" keep questioning her talent and involvement during the making of her albums SOMETIMES, she writes all the lyrics to a song, SOMETIMES, she comes up with the melody...theres a long list of tracks that she essentially covered...AND the more recent ones, may not have been the best choice. she has done more on certain albums than others and certainly more than other pop stars but shes no bob Dylan... I wish she was tho...I LOVE when she writes organically with another musicians... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelHart Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 MDNA had a theme. It was Madonna reclaiming everything that was stolen from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 MDNA had a theme. It was Madonna reclaiming everything that was stolen from her. Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runa Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Shoo Be Doo and Gambler are some of her worst songs ever. I beg your pardon???????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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