MDNA Album Thread

[Guest Xanthium]

If anyone thinks that the people who dislike GGW is because they're old is a fucking MORON. We dislike it because it SUCKS. And the age argument is invalid anyway due to the fact that it was made by a 53 YEAR OLD.

[neutrocks]

I don't think that's completely the reason. She was above her 40's when she release "Music." And that song is basically just a party song. However, it was a breath of fresh air, innovative and creative. IT's what people have come to expect from Madonna. 4 Minutes wasn't very innovative, but it was distinctly Timbaland, and also had an anthemic sound. GGW and GMAYL have neither of those qualities. Adding on the fact that she's 53, a lot of people just aren't digging these songs, sadly.

I didn't say it's the COMPLETE reason. There's always many factors why pop stars tend to not do well in the mainstream anymore. Longevity tends to break it down. People's idea of what age an appealing pop star is a huge factor. I agree... "Music" wasn't exactly a rehashed sound of that time. She was still coming off of the "Ray of Light" high and trying to continue that path a bit. Even American Life was pretty much different from what the pop world was currently into. However, I have to disagree about... "4 Minutes". It was pretty much what the pop world was into, but a year too late! It still worked. Though, if she released Hard Candy a year earlier, she'd probably had better success. GGW... sorry, but as much as I love that song, it sounds exactly what radio is playing right now. There is no denying that. This is why I said in another thread regarding this song, if radio doesn't eat this up, then it's further proof that it's all about age. Madonna is hardly the household name that she used to be. The pop world is usually geared for the under 25 crowd. Most teens would thumb their nose up to a Madonna song. A lot of teens these days and some adults aren't aware of the impact she used to have. It's only going to get worse. Much like the early pop idols before our time who we never experienced at the height of their careers. This is the reality. Though with Madonna, she isn't ready to cash in. She's still determined to stay popular within the mainstream music. It's becoming harder and harder for her do so. That all said, I do think much of the album will probably be a departure from what's the norm in the pop world. That's a plus, but it certainly isn't going to make her anymore popular in mainstream. For me, I am perfectly fine with that since she's been there and done that.

[dnosebapps]

I didn't say it's the COMPLETE reason. There's always many factors why pop stars tend to not do well in the mainstream anymore. Longevity tends to break it down. People's idea of what age an appealing pop star is a huge factor. I agree... "Music" wasn't exactly a rehashed sound of that time. She was still coming off of the "Ray of Light" high and trying to continue that path a bit. Even American Life was pretty much different from what the pop world was currently into. However, I have to disagree about... "4 Minutes". It was pretty much what the pop world was into, but a year too late! It still worked. Though, if she released Hard Candy a year earlier, she'd probably had better success. GGW... sorry, but as much as I love that song, it sounds exactly what radio is playing right now. There is no denying that. This is why I said in another thread regarding this song, if radio doesn't eat this up, then it's further proof that it's all about age. Madonna is hardly the household name that she used to be. The pop world is usually geared for the under 25 crowd. Most teens would thumb their nose up to a Madonna song. A lot of teens these days and some adults aren't aware of the impact she used to have. It's only going to get worse. Much like the early pop idols before our time who we never experienced at the height of their careers. This is the reality. Though with Madonna, she isn't ready to cash in. She's still determined to stay popular within the mainstream music. It's becoming harder and harder for her do so. That all said, I do think much of the album will probably be a departure from what's the norm in the pop world. That's a plus, but it certainly isn't going to make her anymore popular in mainstream. For me, I am perfectly fine with that since she's been there and done that.

Oh, I don't think 4 Minutes was innovative either, but it's a more... powerful lead single I guess for multiple reasons.

I think age has a lot to do with it, but peoples' expectations of Madonna (innovation, trend setting, etc) lead for disappointment when she doesn't do anything "new" and makes a current sounding single. I think that had a part to play in Give Me All Your Luvin's "success."

[nightcutter]

If anyone thinks that the people who dislike GGW is because they're old is a fucking MORON. We dislike it because it SUCKS. And the age argument is invalid anyway due to the fact that it was made by a 53 YEAR OLD.

[GimmeSomeMo]

If anyone thinks that the people who dislike GGW is because they're old is a fucking MORON. We dislike it because it SUCKS. And the age argument is invalid anyway due to the fact that it was made by a 53 YEAR OLD.

It's SOCIETY'S FAULT for being AGEIST.

[neutrocks]

This. And sorry, I was listening to Broken today and it's way better than GGW. And it's a MADONNA SONG, not a Benassi song with Madonna on it. And I think the song is ok so don't start with the hate shit.

I actually love BROKEN much better as well. That should have been saved for this new album if not added to the CELEBRATION compilation. Though, I am not going to say it should have replaced one of the two songs because I think "Celebration" (the song) served a purpose and theme for a spanning career of thirty years. As for "Revolver", I one of the few who like the song. But I felt that they were hoping to hop on what was hip and current at the time. Unfortunately, it didn't work out.

[Guest Xanthium]

It's SOCIETY'S FAULT for being AGEIST.

That's what some people think but she's actually a part of the problem right now in regards to older women getting made fun of for being sexual. Instead of showing the beautiful truth about a woman's sexuality in her 50's, where she could really be breaking down doors, she's just falling into the pathetic cougar trap. She's not dressing appropriately for her age (the GGW single cover is ridiculous) and she's chasing after the horrible production trends of the moment, which just makes her youth obsessed ("Gee, isn't this what all the kids are listening to?!"). Total Ibiza garbage. She's totally turning into Amy Poehler from Mean Girls. If she just acted real, I believe she could totally begin the much needed change for older women to be sexual AND respected at the same time in entertainment.

[neutrocks]

Oh, I don't think 4 Minutes was innovative either, but it's a more... powerful lead single I guess for multiple reasons.

I think age has a lot to do with it, but peoples' expectations of Madonna (innovation, trend setting, etc) lead for disappointment when she doesn't do anything "new" and makes a current sounding single. I think that had a part to play in Give Me All Your Luvin's "success."

Oh I agree, the single served it's purpose a lead single. It made sense to release that first if anything just because it featured Justin Timberlake, and while he hasn't done much in music lately, he's was still pretty much in demand at the time.

And yes, I think fans "expectations" lead to disappointment. This is why I try not to "expect" and just enjoy. I realize songs can take on a serious tone, but for the most part, music is supposed to be fun. "Girl Gone Wild" is just that. To expect Madonna to keep breaking ground every time she puts out an album is ridiculous. Besides, you can't predict the success of anything. A lot of that is due to chance. Some of the most ridiculous things in pop cultures have become popular by chance. Even Madonna said she can't predict what is going to be a hit among her songs. And she's obviously felt that since the beginning. She even admitted that she was surprised how people latched onto "Into The Groove" back in the day.

[neutrocks]

That's what some people think but she's actually a part of the problem right now in regards to older women getting made fun of for being sexual. Instead of showing the beautiful truth about a woman's sexuality in her 50's, where she could really be breaking down doors, she's just falling into the pathetic cougar trap. She's not dressing appropriately for her age (the GGW single cover is ridiculous) and she's chasing after the horrible production trends of the moment, which just makes her youth obsessed ("Gee, isn't this what all the kids are listening too?!"). Total Ibiza garbage. She's totally turning into Amy Poehler from Mean Girls. If she just acted real, I believe she could totally begin the much needed change for older women to be sexual AND respected at the same time in entertainment.

And while I see some truth to what you're saying... it's all based on society's view of older women and their expected place in this world. I don't disagree Madonna has fallen in that trap, but I question to what degree?? I sometimes wonder if she's mocking the whole idea of what society expects of her. I definitely will feel that way if the other tracks from the album stray away from GGW's sound which is quite popular on radio right now.It would prove she's not necessarily trying to put out an album that sounds like everyone else at the time.

[Nessie]

As someone said here, GGW makes GMAYL sounds like Vogue!

If only GGW kept the vibe of that amazing intro... once that 5 seconds go it's all downhill.

[Guest bluejean]

When we get to fun pop songs what I don't understand is that someone in her position can have the CREAM of the crop of songs out there. I mean Rihanna and Britney's teams always get them the best stuff so I don't understand why Madonna has to settle for a song that would barely make it as an album tracks on their albums when she could get an absolute BARN STORMER if she's shopping for demos.

See, there's something you're missing there. Madonna may the biggest of all time and all that, but when it comes to giving up HIT songs songwriters/producers want the latest, current, biggest pop stars of the moment to record their stuff. Rihanna is pretty much a shoo in for a hit, whereas Madonna struggles to get radio play these days, so who do you think is going to get the pick of the best songs when shopping for demos?

Add to that the fact that Madonna will take a 50% cut on songwriting royalties whereas Rihanna and Britney take nothing.

So you see, when it comes to Madonna its up to Madonna to utilise her own songwriting talents to create hits (like she did with Hung Up.) Yes there are some examples of writers/producers who are probably just dying to work with Madonna, but when it comes to purely making money you can bet most songwriters would choose Rihanna or Britney over Madonna. It's a sad reality.

Plus imagine if you are a songwriter, not really a Madonna fan and want to make the most money you can. Would you like to give your song to an artist that is going to record it as is or would you like to give it to someone who is going to change lyrics and bits and pieces to cater it to themselves and claim 50% songwriter royalties?

[Nessie]

So you see, when it comes to Madonna its up to Madonna to utilise her own songwriting talents to create hits (like she did with Hung Up.) Yes there are some examples of writers/producers who are probably just dying to work with Madonna, but when it comes to purely making money you can bet most songwriters would choose Rihanna over Madonna. It's a sad reality.

So why she doesn't hide Patrick Leonard? The guy is a genius and at the moment no current hot popstar is shopping his songs! Madonna has the options! She has on her pocket amazing songwriters she can trust like Patrick Leonard, Joe Henry, Willian Orbit (thankfully she is using him for MDNA), Mirwais, and many more willing to work for her! She doesn't really need to shop songs against Rihanna, Britney, Katy Perry, Gaga and all the darling producers and songwriters of the youth industry. She has plenty of great options!

The fact is that she doesn't want to work with her past songwriters except Willian Orbit.

[Guest Xanthium]

And while I see some truth to what you're saying... it's all based on society's view of older women and their expected place in this world. I don't disagree Madonna has fallen in that trap, but I question to what degree?? I sometimes wonder if she's mocking the whole idea of what society expects of her. I definitely will feel that way if the other tracks from the album stray away from GGW's sound which is quite popular on radio right now.It would prove she's not necessarily trying to put out an album that sounds like everyone else at the time.

But unfortunately society is filled to the brim with fucking idiots who judge people at face value alone. If Madonna is really trying to make some kind of commentary or statement (which she's NOT), most people aren't going to see it. They're gonna see some old bitch acting like a hoe. I definitely am reserving all judgements about MDNA until I hear the album in full. Believe me, i want Madonna to be sexual. I don't want her wearing doilies and singing Liza Minelli bullshit. But I don't want her acting like Britney Spears either. And if you think I'm making fun of Madonna for doing something and giving a free pass to younger pop stars for doing the same exact thing just because they're young, you're dead wrong. I make fun of ALL CHEAP HOES.

[neutrocks]

See, there's something you're missing there. Madonna may the biggest of all time and all that, but when it comes to giving up HIT songs songwriters/producers want the latest, current, biggest pop stars of the moment to record their stuff. Rihanna is pretty much a shoo in for a hit, whereas Madonna struggles to get radio play these days, so who do you think is going to get the pick of the best songs when shopping for demos?

Add to that the fact that Madonna will take a 50% cut on songwriting royalties whereas Rihanna and Britney take nothing.

So you see, when it comes to Madonna its up to Madonna to utilise her own songwriting talents to create hits (like she did with Hung Up.) Yes there are some examples of writers/producers who are probably just dying to work with Madonna, but when it comes to purely making money you can bet most songwriters would choose Rihanna or Britney over Madonna. It's a sad reality.

Plus imagine if you are a songwriter, not really a Madonna fan and want to make the most money you can. Would you like to give your song to an artist that is going to record it as is or would you like to give it to someone who is going to change lyrics and bits and pieces to cater it to themselves and claim 50% songwriter royalties?

BINGO! All the way!

[dollhouse]

I can only speak for myself but I don't care about Madonna being CUTTING EDGE or RAW. I do want her to be personal in her lyrics but she always is to some extent so she's got that covered. When we get to fun pop songs what I don't understand is that someone in her position can have the CREAM of the crop of songs out there. I mean Rihanna and Britney's teams always get them the best stuff so I don't understand why Madonna has to settle for a song that would barely make it as an album tracks on their albums when she could get an absolute BARN STORMER if she's shopping for demos.

Well, Guy introduced GGW aka the Benassi track to her and she liked it. Im absolutely sure she could get anything any song out there but its down to her personal taste..(and perhaps what Guy plays to her)

I mean even SIA was rumored to be involved but in the end got scrapped..and didn't Madonna claim she wanted different what is out there?

[cosmic_system]

Yes, I hate the "I'm doing stuff nobody is doing at the moment" and we get Girl Gone Wild. Are you deaf M.?

Luvin' too wasn't nothing "new" but at least it sounded different from the latest works of Rihanna and Britney (or maybe not..but you know what I mean). She said she's listening to Lola's opinion about her music..and as much as I think she's a very intelligent girl...she's still 15 so stop it already Madonna!

[Guest bluejean]

As someone said here, GGW makes GMAYL sounds like Vogue!

If only GGW kept the vibe of that amazing intro... once that 5 seconds go it's all downhill.

I scanned that for a Cascada reference but couldn't see it. What is going on?

[GimmeSomeMo]

But unfortunately society is filled to the brim with fucking idiots who judge people at face value alone. If Madonna is really trying to make some kind of commentary or statement (which she's NOT), most people aren't going to see it. They're gonna see some old bitch acting like a hoe. I definitely am reserving all judgements about MDNA until I hear the album in full. Believe me, i want Madonna to be sexual. I don't want her wearing doilies and singing Liza Minelli bullshit. But I don't want her acting like Britney Spears either. And if you think I'm making fun of Madonna for doing something and giving a free pass to younger pop stars for doing the same exact thing just because they're young, you're dead wrong. I make fun of ALL CHEAP HOES.

Do you think Madonna wants to prance around in underwear or feels like it's an image people associate with her and it's somehow 'expected'?

[Genevieve Vavance]

Yes, I hate the "I'm doing stuff nobody is doing at the moment" and we get Girl Gone Wild. Are you deaf M.?

Luvin' too wasn't nothing "new" but at least it sounded different from the latest works of Rihanna and Britney (or maybe not..but you know what I mean). She said she's listening to Lola's opinion about her music..and as much as I think she's a very intelligent girl...she's still 15 so stop it already Madonna!

I thougt you liked GGW initially? What made you change your mind?

[HolidayGuy]

"Music" basically "just a party song"? Well, that's one way to look at, like "Holiday." But it's definitely more than that.

Exhibit A:

So looking forward to the Orbit tracks, as well as Demolition Crew. The Benassi/Solveig tracks will be fun, though, I'm sure.

[neutrocks]

But unfortunately society is filled to the brim with fucking idiots who judge people at face value alone. If Madonna is really trying to make some kind of commentary or statement (which she's NOT), most people aren't going to see it. They're gonna see some old bitch acting like a hoe. I definitely am reserving all judgements about MDNA until I hear the album in full. Believe me, i want Madonna to be sexual. I don't want her wearing doilies and singing Liza Minelli bullshit. But I don't want her acting like Britney Spears either. And if you think I'm making fun of Madonna for doing something and giving a free pass to younger pop stars for doing the same exact thing just because they're young, you're dead wrong. I make fun of ALL CHEAP HOES.

LOL! I don't necessarily disagree with what you say. But I am open to the idea that she's is trying to make a "statement" aa well. After all, she's mentioned in interviews how she's sick of people bringing up her age as if that is to define who she is as an artist. So that definitely must play on her mind. Also, every few albums she tends to make a "fuck off" song to her critics or the media. From what I hear, she's got a song or two that touches those bases again along with some other experiences in being married and trying to play the role of a wife.

To me, Madonna strives to maintain her popularity in the mainstream pop world. This is why I feel she tends to seek out what is current if she isn't able to produce the latest trend herself. See some people tend to forget, Madonna isn't necessarily the artist who has invented the wheel, even since the 80's. She's just managed to take what was up and coming and make it her own. And when she reached "Vogue" status, she dipped back even further and brought something not very well known into the dance world and made it popular. When she released "Erotica", it was just an extension of her ever growing obsession to push boundaries regarding what society felt about exploring one's sexuality. It wasn't really til "Ray Of Light" that she went off the beaten path and produce something much more innovative. And ever since, a lot of fans tend to grasp on to that time as if she's been doing all along. Even after "Ray of Light", Madonna tried to create a new formula. Tried to be a little more innovative. I think she tried hard to do that with AMERICAN LIFE and while it was quite different to what we were used to hearing from her, it didn't pan out well for her. Confessions brought back some of the old school dance vibe with a mixture of electronica that was prevalent in RAY OF LIGHT, MUSIC and even explored in American Life. Then there was HARD CANDY which back tracked to her R&B interests, but jumping on the Timbaland bandwagon a bit too late.

Anyway, I am excited to see where she takes us with this new album. It sounds like an eclectic record. She's gone off the beaten path several times, which tends to divide fans anymore. So I can see that this may be an album where some will like one half of it better than the other. Of course, there will be fans who love it all. And unfortunately, some will probably hate it. Me... I'm enjoying the 30 year ride. It's been fun and I don't plan to get off anytime soon.

[Guest bluejean]

So why she doesn't hide Patrick Leonard? The guy is a genius and at the moment no current hot popstar is shopping his songs! Madonna has the options! She has on her pocket amazing songwriters she can trust like Patrick Leonard, Joe Henry, Willian Orbit (thankfully she is using him for MDNA), Mirwais, and many more willing to work for her! She doesn't really need to shop songs against Rihanna, Britney, Katy Perry, Gaga and all the darling producers and songwriters of the youth industry. She has plenty of great options!

The fact is that she doesn't want to work with her past songwriters except Willian Orbit.

Well I was referring to GSM's suggestion of that, I don't personally think she needs to do that either.

She's actually working with some great songwriters so I don't understand your point. And isn't Joe Henry one of them? Do you think she should work with Reggie Lucas and Stephen Bray as well?

[Guest bluejean]

Do you think Madonna wants to prance around in underwear or feels like it's an image people associate with her and it's somehow 'expected'?

I think it can all be summed up by that childhood memory she recalled once, where her Dad told her not to put her finger on the lighter and that made her want to do it. So she did.

[cosmic_system]

I thougt you liked GGW initially? What made you change your mind?

Well, as always the first time a hear a new Madonna song I like it. The song is not bad, is just a b-side to me. I hate the production on the chorus and her voice sounds very flat. The intro is great but too much similar with Sorry.

[dollhouse]

Mark Kamins to relaunch her career? U better be quick Riris eyes are on him already..

[Guest Xanthium]

Do you think Madonna wants to prance around in underwear or feels like it's an image people associate with her and it's somehow 'expected'?

I definitely think it's a "fuck you, I'll do what I want". But how much of it is really her and how much of it is just to prove a point? It's definitely a gamble she's taking. I've always admired her sexual bravado, but the GGW song and single cover are ridiculous. They're both disingenuous. You can prove you're a sexual person in your 50's in much better ways. She should've showed them younger bitches how to do it all with CLASS.

[GimmeSomeMo]

I think it can all be summed up by that childhood memory she recalled once, where her Dad told her not to put her finger on the lighter and that made her want to do it. So she did.

If that's what she really wants to do, more power to her. But if she thinks it's 'what people want' I don't know. Underweardonna resurfaced right after the AL debacle along with her apparently constant desire to JUST DANCE.

[cosmic_system]

I definitely think it's a "fuck you, I'll do what I want". But how much of it is really her and how much of it is just to prove a point? It's definitely a gamble she's taking. I've always admired her sexual bravado, but the GGW song and single cover are ridiculous. They're both disingenuous. You can prove you're a sexual person in your 50's in much better ways. She should've showed them younger bitches how to do it all with CLASS.

I agree. She doesn't need to do an Agent Provocateur ad to prove she's sexy. Madonna is sex on legs, period. I'm so happy the album cover is not that ridiculous picture. The album cover (both) are sexy and classy.

[dollhouse]

I suspect Guy O. has his hands deep in her music career. He seemed to enjoy Celebration little bit too much on S&S warmup show..

[Ai Papi Si.]

That's what some people think but she's actually a part of the problem right now in regards to older women getting made fun of for being sexual. Instead of showing the beautiful truth about a woman's sexuality in her 50's, where she could really be breaking down doors, she's just falling into the pathetic cougar trap. She's not dressing appropriately for her age (the GGW single cover is ridiculous) and she's chasing after the horrible production trends of the moment, which just makes her youth obsessed ("Gee, isn't this what all the kids are listening to?!"). Total Ibiza garbage. She's totally turning into Amy Poehler from Mean Girls. If she just acted real, I believe she could totally begin the much needed change for older women to be sexual AND respected at the same time in entertainment.

I think some of that is a little harsh. Yes she's in a bra and feather boa on the cover but at the same time - do you think Madonna thought her outfit for Vogue (Sticky & Sweet tour) was sexy? I really don't think she puts on these costumes as a means of titilation. She never really did, actually. The cone bra wasn't necessarily sexy - neither was the pink leotard or the wedding dress.

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that Madonna is completely losing her marbles. It'd be one thing if she was doing these things and then being interviewed by Cynthia McFadden all in DENIAL about her age and getting defensive. Instead when it was brought up (once in 2008 and again 2 months ago) she owned it. I think she's well aware that people could call her disgusting for wearing these things at age 53, and she's not trying to convey any message with it, I think she's just proud of how she looks and we all know she likes to tie in an appropriate image to the music. She could have just put an outtake from the red MDNA dress for the single cover but what would be the fun in that?