Is there a 2nd backlash?

[karbatal]

I think it's the whole "you can't stay on top forever" thing more than anything else. I would place Madonna on the same boat as U2. Their last album sold incredibly low for their standards but still performed well in the context of other albums worldwide last year. Their new stuff is hardly played on the radio but you still hear the "classics". Their concerts are massively successful, but at the end of the day they are a bunch of 50 year olds and aren't viewed as "relevant" as Coldplay (who are basically U2 but 30 year olds) are by the media. Just like how Gaga and Britney score hits with songs that Madonna would only get club airplay for, but they're "younger" therefore more marketable.

I don't think anyone should feel bad for Madonna though, she will still always sell "ok" numbers and her concerts are always going to sell out, she just will never be on the pulse of the industry like she was in 1990. At least she's established as someone that will always pull them in onstage, you can't say that about Mariah or Janet, who are pretty much fucked nowadays that radio no longer cares.

[Skin]

Why do you say that? I kind of agree but cant put my finger on the reason.

I think there are many reasons. Radio is done with her. MTV cant promote her because all they promote is Jersey Shore. Her age which she cant help has alot to do with it. Mainstream pop is simply not geared toward someone in their 50s. The list could go on. It HAD to happen one day though. Lucky for her though her impact has been so huge that people will probably always see her tour though just so they can say they saw Madonna.

[Nightshade]

I don't think she's having a backlash right now. There may be a general sense of Madonna "fatigue" just because she's been around so long, but the Glee soundtrack went to #1 this year, her S&S Tour DVD did respectable business, and she's still the template for major pop stars (notice how many times her name is invoked when Gaga is mentioned in the press). She's doing fine. She's just on hiatus and she'll be back soon enough.

I remember the Sex/Erotica backlash. It was a horrible time (press-wise). I don't even think the American Life period came close, honestly.

[cosmic_system]

I really don't see this backlash but she's not young, she has like 30 years of body of work behind her so I guess you really can't expect madonnamania now. I mean, she's there. She's like Coca Cola now. People will always talk about her, she's an ICON and a BRAND and I don't see a problem with that. Hard Candy wasn't a flop at all, some critics loved it and the tour was the biggest solo tour ever. Her last cover story for Interview was HUGE in the media. Backlash my ass.

Yes, some z list "stars" are talking about her in a negative way, but at the end of day who cares.

The real backlash is in this forum (I don't know about village and tribe) but that's another story. I can't wait for another album, maybe another FLOP HARD CANDY OH MY GOD OH THE DRAMA album, at least people will get over M-Dolla for real. It's getting tired and boring, at least for me.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I think ultimately people are unfairly comparing Madonna's current status and what we saw with Michael Jackson for the past year and change. The type of renaissance MJ had for older artists is something that only comes in death (see Elvis, Lennon, Freddie Mercury, Johnny Cash for past examples). There will always be a huge outpouring of respect and new generations that couldn't have been arsed before to listen to suddenly become fans. This will happen when Madonna leaves us too, but if I'd rather have decades more of her being around, being "the old grandma" to tween audiences than to have her die tomorrow and suddenly become instantly canonized as one of the great legends.

[karbatal]

I remember the Sex/Erotica backlash. It was a horrible time (press-wise). I don't even think the American Life period came close, honestly.

The American Life was far worse, because she hasn't truly recovered from that. If you compare the impact that Music had with Confessions or Hard Candy, you see it. For the first time Madonna was considered boring and her music out of touch with what young people wanted to hear.

During Erotica she had really bad press but young generations were shouting her name (i was 19 then and everybody wanted to see her new video and her tits). And if she had released a bombastic new single with BS, she would have been back on top as always (TAB proves it).

The worst that could happen to Madonna is to be considered predictable and boring. I don't think she's all to blame. Music in USA has been really weird for the last decade and only r'n'b artists or those who bastardized the genre have been relevant there. If Madonna is such a superstar right now is becase of her loyal fanbase in USA and because she's been incredibly succesful on the rest of the world.

[Elysium]

The media/public will always perceive everything Madonna does through negative glasses because what they know for sure about her is the fact she is extremely intelligent (something which they refuse to openly acknowledge or praise) - and with that comes a whole heap of associations with being manipulative, calculating, ruthless, etc, especially if you are female - small minded people won't dwell on the positives of what it means to be an extremely intelligent woman.

Plus the fact that she's been a global megastar for 3 decades breeds a lot of resentment from people in the music industry, the press and the public because some will feel she is overshadowing the younger stars of the future (with the irony being that all the younger female stars today are like watered down versions of what's known as the Madonna brand, i.e. - Lady GaGa, Katy Perry, Ke$ha, Rihanna, etc). It's generally felt that once you make it big and you've made a truckload of money you're supposed to fuck off and retire into obscurity...that's what people who are purely motivated by money do...but if you're passionate about your art and passionate about being creative you keep going...the so-called backlash or general negativity about Madonna is just resistance from small minded ignorant people - Madonna knows it's all a pile of shit...all the mores and values that are forced down our throats overtly and covertly...so she continues to do exactly what she wants as a big 'fuck you' to the world and it still seems to piss people off.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

The American Life was far worse, because she hasn't truly recovered from that. If you compare the impact that Music had with Confessions or Hard Candy, you see it. For the first time Madonna was considered boring and her music out of touch with what young people wanted to hear.

During Erotica she had really bad press but young generations were shouting her name (i was 19 then and everybody wanted to see her new video and her tits). And if she had released a bombastic new single with BS, she would have been back on top as always (TAB proves it).

The worst that could happen to Madonna is to be considered predictable and boring. I don't think she's all to blame. Music in USA has been really weird for the last decade and only r'n'b artists or those who bastardized the genre have been relevant there. If Madonna is such a superstar right now is becase of her loyal fanbase in USA and because she's been incredibly succesful on the rest of the world.

I always find it funny that Madonna's big detractors on other boards always try to cite her comparative "lack of success" in the US since AL (which at least has given us two top 10 singles, two #1 albums and three massive tours... some hasbeen LOL) when they seem to want to forget that 1. US radio is far more ageist than it was even 15 years ago when Cher and Elton John were still scoring hits at the age Madonna is now and 2. a few tracks off HC notwithstanding, she isn't exactly making the music you hear all over US airwaves. Name me one other LIVING 1980's pop star who has done better than her since 2003 in America.

I think Sex hurt her worse than American Life but the difference was that she was younger, therefore more "marketable" that radio was still willing to play her, AL came out at a time when veteran artists were being run off the radio at an alarming rate, and even if the album didn't happen, she likely still would've found it impossible to score another "Music".

[Guest]

hmmm, interesting. ive always found that every few years the press tries to pull her down, since the beginning. lately its been the public. i really dont think people like to see a woman over a certain age behaving a certain way...including her fans.

I don't think even THEY know what they want.

[cosmic_system]

I always find it funny that Madonna's big detractors on other boards always try to cite her comparative "lack of success" in the US since AL (which at least has given us two top 10 singles, two #1 albums and three massive tours... some hasbeen LOL) when they seem to want to forget that 1. US radio is far more ageist than it was even 15 years ago when Cher and Elton John were still scoring hits at the age Madonna is now and 2. a few tracks off HC notwithstanding, she isn't exactly making the music you hear all over US airwaves. Name me one other LIVING 1980's pop star who has done better than her since 2003 in America.

I think Sex hurt her worse than American Life but the difference was that she was younger, therefore more "marketable" that radio was still willing to play her, AL came out at a time when veteran artists were being run off the radio at an alarming rate, and even if the album didn't happen, she likely still would've found it impossible to score another "Music".

[Nessie]

i was 19 then and everybody wanted to see her new video and her tits

[Genevieve Vavance]

I really don't see this backlash but she's not young, she has like 30 years of body of work behind her so I guess you really can't expect madonnamania now. I mean, she's there. She's like Coca Cola now. People will always talk about her, she's an ICON and a BRAND and I don't see a problem with that. Hard Candy wasn't a flop at all, some critics loved it and the tour was the biggest solo tour ever. Her last cover story for Interview was HUGE in the media. Backlash my ass.

Yes, some z list "stars" are talking about her in a negative way, but at the end of day who cares.

The real backlash is in this forum (I don't know about village and tribe) but that's another story. I can't wait for another album, maybe another FLOP HARD CANDY OH MY GOD OH THE DRAMA album, at least people will get over M-Dolla for real. It's getting tired and boring, at least for me.

Madonna is here to stay

at the person comparing Madonna to that flop band U2, I mean seriously

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Madonna is here to stay

at the person comparing Madonna to that flop band U2, I mean seriously

hmmm, their last tour was the highest grossing tour of all time and their album sold just as well as Hard Candy (actually more in America where it crossed 1 million).

You might not like their music but to call them flops is well off-base. If grossing over $500 million from your most recent tour is a flop, who wants to be a success?

[Genevieve Vavance]

The media/public will always perceive everything Madonna does through negative glasses because what they know for sure about her is the fact she is extremely intelligent (something which they refuse to openly acknowledge or praise) - and with that comes a whole heap of associations with being manipulative, calculating, ruthless, etc, especially if you are female - small minded people won't dwell on the positives of what it means to be an extremely intelligent woman.

Plus the fact that she's been a global megastar for 3 decades breeds a lot of resentment from people in the music industry, the press and the public because some will feel she is overshadowing the younger stars of the future (with the irony being that all the younger female stars today are like watered down versions of what's known as the Madonna brand, i.e. - Lady GaGa, Katy Perry, Ke$ha, Rihanna, etc). It's generally felt that once you make it big and you've made a truckload of money you're supposed to fuck off and retire into obscurity...that's what people who are purely motivated by money do...but if you're passionate about your art and passionate about being creative you keep going...the so-called backlash or general negativity about Madonna is just resistance from small minded ignorant people - Madonna knows it's all a pile of shit...all the mores and values that are forced down our throats overtly and covertly...so she continues to do exactly what she wants as a big 'fuck you' to the world and it still seems to piss people off.

this too

[Genevieve Vavance]

hmmm, their last tour was the highest grossing tour of all time and their album sold just as well as Hard Candy (actually more in America where it crossed 1 million).

You might not like their music but to call them flops is well off-base. If grossing over $500 million from your most recent tour is a flop, who wants to be a success?

fact is you cannot compare MADONNA to any other act out there, the only one was MJ maybe

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I know there's a "no other 80's artist can do well" mentality, but you cannot place U2 on the same level as Janet, who couldn't sell out one show

With a gross of over $311 million for the 44 shows in 2009, the U2 360° Tour was the highest grossing tour of the year.[91] The tour is expected to achieve a total gross of $750 million by the end of 2010.[92]

Sheesh, Madonna and U2 serve two totally different purposes and are able to co-exist. Why make BS up to bash another artist just because they happen to be the same age as M? Yes, U2 and Madonna are on the same boat.

[Flip The Switch]

hmmm, their last tour was the highest grossing tour of all time and their album sold just as well as Hard Candy (actually more in America where it crossed 1 million).

You might not like their music but to call them flops is well off-base. If grossing over $500 million from your most recent tour is a flop, who wants to be a success?

muse as always being vague. He seems a little bit confused with the definition of FLOP.

[cosmic_system]

I know there's a "no other 80's artist can do well" mentality, but you cannot place U2 on the same level as Janet, who couldn't sell out one show

Sheesh, Madonna and U2 serve two totally different purposes and are able to co-exist. Why make BS up to bash another artist just because they happen to be the same age as M? Yes, U2 and Madonna are on the same boat.

I agree.

[redhot]

The media/public will always perceive everything Madonna does through negative glasses because what they know for sure about her is the fact she is extremely intelligent (something which they refuse to openly acknowledge or praise) - and with that comes a whole heap of associations with being manipulative, calculating, ruthless, etc, especially if you are female - small minded people won't dwell on the positives of what it means to be an extremely intelligent woman.

Plus the fact that she's been a global megastar for 3 decades breeds a lot of resentment from people in the music industry, the press and the public because some will feel she is overshadowing the younger stars of the future (with the irony being that all the younger female stars today are like watered down versions of what's known as the Madonna brand, i.e. - Lady GaGa, Katy Perry, Ke$ha, Rihanna, etc). It's generally felt that once you make it big and you've made a truckload of money you're supposed to fuck off and retire into obscurity...that's what people who are purely motivated by money do...but if you're passionate about your art and passionate about being creative you keep going...the so-called backlash or general negativity about Madonna is just resistance from small minded ignorant people - Madonna knows it's all a pile of shit...all the mores and values that are forced down our throats overtly and covertly...so she continues to do exactly what she wants as a big 'fuck you' to the world and it still seems to piss people off.

[ryan]

I would say towards the end of 09' there was more of an appreciation of Madonna.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

I don't think even THEY know what they want.

i know one thing. they did not like her working with black producers after her anglo ray of light years.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I would say towards the end of 09' there was more of an appreciation of Madonna.

I think the real problem is that while old fans have become more interested of late, people who hated her have yet to be convinced she is talented even today. I remember talking to a guy I went to grade school with who thought Madonna was a slut back then (the funny thing is that back then he let Beavis And Butt-Head completely dictate his musical taste, and even though B&B both wanted to do Madonna, he never went that far to agree with them) and he's now a huge Gaga fan and believes she's this great talent, but yet he point blank says Gaga has talent and Madonna doesn't. I GET the appeal of Gaga unlike some here, but people think she has talent that Madonna doesn't? Lyrically she is still in her "star light, star bright, first star I see tonight" phase, nothing like ROL and AL. I've seen it on other boards too, people who are still convinced that Madonna's lasted this long on sheer luck and controversy.

[GimmeSomeMo]

i know one thing. they did not like her working with black producers after her anglo ray of light years.

[Glindathegood]

I don't think the average person out there has a negative opinion of Madonna right now. Most people respect her and think she is talented although she's not really on their radar right now because she doesn't have a record out and is not touring right now.

I think you would get the idea that the whole world hates her if you go by what is posted on the Internet. But that's not a fair reflection of the general public. It says more about the nature of the Internet than people's opinion of Madonna. The anonymity of the Internet encourages hatred from people who need attention or whatever, but it's not the real world. There's hatred for every celebrity not just Madonna on the Internet. It really doesn't mean anything.

I think the public probably isn't thinking about Madonna right now, but they are open to buying her next record or going to her next tour if it's something they enjoy. So I think the situation is not that dire, and there is a bright future ahead of her as long as she puts a lot of effort and heart into her next record.

[Guest]

i know one thing. they did not like her working with black producers after her anglo ray of light years.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I think she has these 'shifts' of style and it takes some people a while to catch up.

[Glindathegood]

i know one thing. they did not like her working with black producers after her anglo ray of light years.

It has nothing to do with their race. Some people just don't like hip hop rhythms. They wouldn't have liked it if you worked with white hip hop producers or artists like Eminem or someone either. People weren't complaining as much when she worked with Babyface or Dallas Austin because they tended to be more traditional R&B or pop which some people like better. Don't jump so quickly to say people are racist if they don't like something.

[Apples388]

Let's not make excuses here. It wasn't about race and it wasn't about 'juggling' her style. The reason why most critics had an "issue" (if you will) with her collaborating with Timberland/Timberlake and Pharrell was that she was following an old, somewhat tired sound rather than setting the trend herself, which is what she is known for in the mainstream media.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

i know one thing. they did not like her working with black producers after her anglo ray of light years.

Even tho this is the 1000th discussion of it. What I didn't like about her work with Timbaland was that it was like Timbaland just handed songs for her he would've given any other artist in her place. Which to me was disappointing because you could tell his work with Bjork were true collaborations, you heard both Timbaland and Bjork in their few songs together. 4 Mins would've sounded exactly the same if Nelly Furtado or OneRepublic had done it and of course Devil Wouldn't Recognize being a thinly rewritten "What Goes Around Comes Around".

Madonna worked with black producers in the 80's and 90's, it's not race. I think it's just a matter of ones personal musical preference. When I heard Tim's work with Bjork I was actually looking forward to HC with an open mind because him and Bjork created a whole new sound together unlike anything either has done before, but yet he treated Madonna like she was one of his 25 year old assembly line starlets.

In comparison you could hear the collaboration with Stuart Price. Stuart has a distinct production sound to him but compare COADF with his work with Kylie, Scissor Sisters, The Killers and Keane amongst others, they don't all sound identical.

[Guest]

^ That opinion itself is way more tired than those producers. It's a bit silly too, considering other producers she's used.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

^ That opinion itself is way more tired than those producers. It's a bit silly too, considering other producers she's used.

Well it wasn't me who brought the race card up, which is more tired than any producer or opinion. One can not care for that genre and not have it be race-oriented.