Guest Danny86 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 But honestly couldn't we say the same thing about ROL and MUSIC? Orbit and Mirwais musical personalities steer those albums. Same could be said about Pettibone and EROTICA / Price and CONFESSIONS. Just about every album she does is more obviously aimed in the musical personality of the producer she works with. I don't think HC and BS are really any different really. I think when some people just don't like THE personality, it becomes a problem. Exactly. Her initial work with Mirwais was basically singing over the music he did for his own solo album. But when it comes to Timbaland, fans start to complain that "he just gave her his usual stuff, unlike Björk, who made him sound different", well guess what, Madonna didn't make Shep, Orbit or Mirwais sound different either. Why would she look for a certain collaborator if she wants to CHANGE them? I fail to see why HC, a pure pop album, is where Madonna's "personality" is overshadowed, yet when she's singing over ABBA, Donna Summer, Pet Shop Boys, Daft Punk or Kraftwerk samples/interpolations/rip offs, she's being artistic and herself. And that leads to the "did COADF bring dance music back?" subject: most critics and even Madonna herself noted that the whole album was a homage to OLD dance music with a slight of updating, I don't think it ever meant to be trendsetting. Many reviews of the 4 singles made it clear that they have a nod to a well known old song. I'm not saying that means the music is bad, just that you can't be trendsetting if the whole project is a tribute to various dance eras. Not to mention that the 80s tribute was also done by Gwen a year before COADF came out, yet her most remembered songs from that record are the "current" sounding ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drowned Bedtime Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Your favourite M track is "Bedtime Story", right? So you think it was an artistic decision to imitate Björk with a song Madonna didn't even write, because you like that, but you personally don't like when she does an urban influenced pop album. That's your prerogative, but I'm shocked at comments like "there's no point in it existing" which assumes it's you who knows how Madonna is supposed to sound like, instead of you following her wherever she takes you sonically... There is no point in it existing though. It's just another dime a dozen pop tart album. Urban influences are light at best, and overal it's plain poor. Mediocre, if I'm forgiving. It's not interesting as an album. The catchy songs are only relatively catchy to the some of the duds on the album. COADF had the combo of great singles and the album serving as a sonic hourney, or however you put it. Sure I love Bedtime Story. But thought-provoking music like that, proper sensual, sensory music like that is important and interesting. This album is neither. It's uneeded. She may as well have not released it. That's how essential it is. If the songs were good, or at least well produced, and something different but enjoyable was provided, I'd forgive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drowned World Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 It's the first album where I think M's lost her way a bit. It seems it was an album made for the sake of it. I got the feeling it was very much a similar situation with BS back when it was released. Even then, there was some good work on BS, and it seemed to be coming from a place. This one just seems to be coming from no where. There are some good songs on "Hard Candy" though, like BS, but I get the feeling this was an album released to fulfill an obligation in her contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Coffin Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 It's her WORST album by far. But then I made my own track listing of it for my iPod and the result was pretty nice: 1) "Candy Shop" (studio version of the live one) 2) "4 Minutes" 3) "Give It 2 Me" 4) "Heartbeat" 5) "Miles Away" 6) "She's Not Me" 7) "Beat Goes On" 8) "Dance 2night" 9) "Spanish Lesson" 10) "Give It 2 Me" (Paul Oakenfold Edit) DWRY can fuck off for good. The wonderful threesome of SNM, BGO and D2 is utterly retro perfection. And I really, really like SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subhuman Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 It's by no means her best, or her worst. There are some great tracks on it, and yet some very mediocre ones to boot. Overall it's a mixed bag really. To this day I still don't understand everyone's fascination with "Beat Goes On." I suppose it's fun enough, but there are far better songs on the record - in fact I much prefer "Candy Shop" and "Spanish Lesson" to it. "4 Minutes" I could take or leave and "Voices" is just ridiculous (mostly due to the terrible mastering, which plagues the Timba/Timber tracks - the Orchestral version of Voices is quite on the other hand). Eventhough "Dance 2Night" has slowly grown on me, I still can't stand the fact that she sounds like she's singing through a wool sock stuck over the microphone. "Devil" still holds up, but I'm hoping that one day a stripped down version surfaces. The clear standouts on the record (for me at least) are "Give It 2 Me," followed by "Heartbeat" and "Miles Away". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrolito Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I'm loving it even more a year on. When it first came out I couldn't stand spanish lesson, but over the last few weeks it's finally grown on me. 4 minutes I could live without hearing for the next decade though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 There is no point in it existing though. It's just another dime a dozen pop tart album. Urban influences are light at best, and overal it's plain poor. Mediocre, if I'm forgiving. It's not interesting as an album. The catchy songs are only relatively catchy to the some of the duds on the album. COADF had the combo of great singles and the album serving as a sonic hourney, or however you put it. Sure I love Bedtime Story. But thought-provoking music like that, proper sensual, sensory music like that is important and interesting. This album is neither. It's uneeded. She may as well have not released it. That's how essential it is. If the songs were good, or at least well produced, and something different but enjoyable was provided, I'd forgive it. Ah okay, so I see music that doesn't please you shouldn't even exist at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erotica blu Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 01. Erotica / American Life 02. Hard Candy All other Madonna discs depend on my mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanster Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 might be time for me to revisit the album - not listened for about 9 months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyralexxx Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 might be time for me to revisit the album - not listened for about 9 months... yeah right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BytheBay Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 There is no point in it existing though. It's just another dime a dozen pop tart album. Urban influences are light at best, and overal it's plain poor. Mediocre, if I'm forgiving. It's not interesting as an album. The catchy songs are only relatively catchy to the some of the duds on the album. COADF had the combo of great singles and the album serving as a sonic hourney, or however you put it. Sure I love Bedtime Story. But thought-provoking music like that, proper sensual, sensory music like that is important and interesting. This album is neither. It's uneeded. She may as well have not released it. That's how essential it is. If the songs were good, or at least well produced, and something different but enjoyable was provided, I'd forgive it. Every comment you made about HC is EXACTLY how i feel about COADF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pud Whacker Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Every comment you made about HC is EXACTLY how i feel about COADF. COADF was great, too. i guess theres not really a madonna album i dont like. i havent heard it in its entirety in a long time but i dont listen to fischerspooners odyssey either and i was playing that out with COADF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I work at the Central library in Auckland and Ive noticed HC gets checked out alot (even today a I issued it for one guy lol) so People must like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyralexxx Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I work at the Central library in Auckland and Ive noticed HC gets checked out alot (even today a I issued it for one guy lol) so People must like it same here at our music shop where you can purchase tickets for the concert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BytheBay Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 COADF was great, too. i guess theres not really a madonna album i dont like. i havent heard it in its entirety in a long time but i dont listen to fischerspooners odyssey either and i was playing that out with COADF. COADF was good too...to some degree but to me its her most contrived, desparate sounding album. I was very disappointed with it when I got it. HC to me was a return to form. M is like the Simpsons to me...even a bad episode is still better than most of the stuff on tv, but if I'm going to reach and put on an album, I will listen to GHV2 before I listen to COADF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fak Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 LAMB and COADF sound nothing a like HC has a similar vibe to LAMB/TSE Not to mention that the 80s tribute was also done by Gwen a year before COADF came out, yet her most remembered songs from that record are the "current" sounding ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fak Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I suppose the the difference is that the sound she made with Timbaland has flogged the American radio to death, whilst the albums she has produced with Mirwais, Stuart, Orbit is not at all mainstream in the USA...... COADF was trend-setting because more andmore Urban and Pop singers in America started releasing dance songs. Before COADF who released a dance song other than Britney? Whilst COADF resurrected some interest in dance music, HC came when that Urban sound is no longer dominant. In reality none of Madonna's music is really original as its always influenced by something but then theres that classy m way of bringing an underground or less mainstream sound to the mainstream. In terms of evolution neither COADF or HC are anything original - its just M looking back to the 80's. Exactly. Her initial work with Mirwais was basically singing over the music he did for his own solo album. But when it comes to Timbaland, fans start to complain that "he just gave her his usual stuff, unlike Björk, who made him sound different", well guess what, Madonna didn't make Shep, Orbit or Mirwais sound different either. Why would she look for a certain collaborator if she wants to CHANGE them? I fail to see why HC, a pure pop album, is where Madonna's "personality" is overshadowed, yet when she's singing over ABBA, Donna Summer, Pet Shop Boys, Daft Punk or Kraftwerk samples/interpolations/rip offs, she's being artistic and herself. And that leads to the "did COADF bring dance music back?" subject: most critics and even Madonna herself noted that the whole album was a homage to OLD dance music with a slight of updating, I don't think it ever meant to be trendsetting. Many reviews of the 4 singles made it clear that they have a nod to a well known old song. I'm not saying that means the music is bad, just that you can't be trendsetting if the whole project is a tribute to various dance eras. Not to mention that the 80s tribute was also done by Gwen a year before COADF came out, yet her most remembered songs from that record are the "current" sounding ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesser Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 ^ COADF is NOT "trend setting" lol That album didn't influence any moves in music pop culture in America. Dance came back after COADF ran its course. If COADF was responsible for influencing anything in pop culture, the singles would have been better received at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesser Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Furthermore HC IS dance music! It's hardly TI or anything of the like. There is more than 1 kind of "dance music". It doesn't all have to sound like Cher, Kyle euro club mix music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt420 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 ^ COADF is NOT "trend setting" lol That album didn't influence any moves in music pop culture in America. Dance came back after COADF ran its course. If COADF was responsible for influencing anything in pop culture, the singles would have been better received at the time. Everything you say is true. COADF had good word of mouth in the States I would say, otherwise it wouldn't have had the legs it did.....and the same can be said for HC too since it stuck around the charts almost just as long......but calling COADF trendsetting (at least in terms of US market) is more than a little uninformed I think. I mean even the biggest hit off the album barely got played. The type of dance music that has become popular in the US since COADF has been more R&B oriented. Rihanna, Timbo, Justin, Nelly....that's who brought "dance music" back to Top 40 radio in '06-'07 in the US. And fak you mention in your post "who was doing dance music before COADF?" .....MADONNA!!! She's never stopped doing dance music. From Holiday to Vogue to Music to 4 Minutes.....all of them were big dance and mainstream hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanster Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 yeah right absolutely true lost interest in the whole HC project mid summer....and it really has not improved since.... can't wait for this whole 'project' to be finished! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danny86 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 LAMB and COADF sound nothing a like HC has a similar vibe to LAMB/TSE Obviously, I was talking about the concept, not the actual sound. I know it's cool to say that Madonna sounded like Gwen on HC, but it's "Hung Up" that was compared to "What You Waiting For" and Pharrell's work is completely different on HC than TSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I can only listen to G2M, Miles Away and Heartbeat ...the rest is boring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magom Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I haven't lstened to it for like 2 months, and yesterday and today played in my car while going to work. I love Devil, Miles Away, Incredible, Give it to me (although I hate the Get stupid section). 4 Minutes still sounds cool even more with the volume high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip The Switch Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I can only listen to G2M, Miles Away and Heartbeat ...the rest is boring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fak Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 How many major artists released a dance single in the USA prior to 2005? i cant name any. Post 2006 you have rihanna, ne yo, timbaland, timberlake, usher and even janet jackson. Its not the style of music thatss the problem - its the AGE of the lady in question. M released HU a digital sales no1 and a million seller - very well for its time. She proved dance music sells. I am not saying that they have released dance singles because COADF came out but the when you comapre the music of the artists before and after theres a difference. ^ COADF is NOT "trend setting" lol That album didn't influence any moves in music pop culture in America. Dance came back after COADF ran its course. If COADF was responsible for influencing anything in pop culture, the singles would have been better received at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fak Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I know that and I barely listen to Kylie, Cher, or euro club music.........I prefer American house and garage over euro dance music. Furthermore HC IS dance music! It's hardly TI or anything of the like. There is more than 1 kind of "dance music". It doesn't all have to sound like Cher, Kyle euro club mix music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fak Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 1. You answered my question - out of all the mainstream artists only madonna did dance music. Post 2006 - we even have Akon singing over some really cheesey Euro beats. Timbaland had 10 years prior to Shock Value to produce some dance music, why wait till 2006/2007? Janet had abandoned uptempo dance music for more RnB style - in 2008 that changed but it did not work for her. She had plenty of opportunity to release an uptempo dance song throught the last 15 years. She is just a bandwagon follower. She had the discoey All For You but even that was closer to RnB. Airplay does not necessarily have to be the issue. Anyone could see that its more the age of the artists that matters. The first shot by a mainstream artist in releasing a dance single - BIG digital seller for its time, but low airplay. Timberlake and Rihanna proved that you could be big on airplay too with a dance song within the next 12 months I dont see how any of Rihanna's dance music is RnB orientated - its beats, delivery is closer to house/europop in the style of Kylie,Madonna's COADF work, some remixed by David Morales than to Beyonce, Usher pre2007. Timberlake SexyBack has a very 80's dance music feel, I guess at that time there was more common ground between real dance music and RnB. Even then its far more electro infleunced than RnB. i would even go further in saying it does remind me of Music at times too. Anything JT released as a follow up to sexyBack is basically RnB/Pop. Everything you say is true. COADF had good word of mouth in the States I would say, otherwise it wouldn't have had the legs it did.....and the same can be said for HC too since it stuck around the charts almost just as long......but calling COADF trendsetting (at least in terms of US market) is more than a little uninformed I think. I mean even the biggest hit off the album barely got played. The type of dance music that has become popular in the US since COADF has been more R&B oriented. Rihanna, Timbo, Justin, Nelly....that's who brought "dance music" back to Top 40 radio in '06-'07 in the US. And fak you mention in your post "who was doing dance music before COADF?" .....MADONNA!!! She's never stopped doing dance music. From Holiday to Vogue to Music to 4 Minutes.....all of them were big dance and mainstream hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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