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BREXIT / British Politics thread

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39 minutes ago, kangarooz said:

 

I have seen no evidence that Scotland is the biggest export market for rUK and regardless Scottish exports to rUK are over 60%, any exports the other way around will be no where near this high.

Oh and just quickly on this point. English only figures are hard to find as they are always combined with rUK, but in 2013 alone Scotland exported £50.5bn in goods and services to the rest of the UK, rUK sold £62.7bn in goods and services to Scotland. To think for one second that rUK will not trade with an independent Scotland is ludicrous but certainly the kind of 'project fear' rhetoric that gets passed around as fact.

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2 hours ago, kangarooz said:

Britain has been together before most of Europe even existed

 

:blink:

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2 hours ago, jazzyjan said:

We can't compare Scotland to America.  The USA has different states but they all make up the one country and call themselves American.   Scotland is their own country.  They may form the United Kingdom with England, Wales and Northern Ireland but all are seen as being distinctly different as nations. 

 

Exactly

 

Comparing the American States, all birthed as part of an entirely new political entity alltogether (and more or less at the same time) to nations that albeit being part of a sovreign state called United Kingdom all have their own strong national, cultural, historical identity is flawed and not pertinent. The comparison to the US because the US also happens to be a federation is wrong, that's where the similarity in terms of the nature of this issue ends, it is vastly more intricate as far as British politics and history goes

Last but not least because of very delicate dark violent history pages during the 20th century and how all of those issues pertaining to Brexit could inflame the Ireland/ Northern Ireland scenario and resuscitate old divides, among other things

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Today Angus Robertson's the Lady Is For Turning to Theresa May

 

 

We once had a prime minister who said the lady was not for turning. My goodness. Isn’t it welcome that the prime minister today has admitted she is for turning with her screeching, embarrassing U-turn on National Insurance?

Mr Speaker only days remain unti the prime minister is going to invoke article 50 on leaving the European Union and last july she promised to secure a UK wide approach, an agreement between the devolved administrations of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the UK govt before triggering Article 50 so when will the prime minister announce the details of the agreement?

 

As I said yesterday we will trigger Article 50 at the end of this month, there will be further opportunities to discuss with the devolved administrations but when the right hon gentleman looks at the issue of membership of the European Union and his view of Scotland not being part of the United Kingdom, I say this to him, he is comparing membership of an organisation we've been a member of for 40 years with our country, we have been one country for over 300 years, we have fought together, we have worked together, we have achieved together and constitutional game playing must not be allowed to break the deep bonds of our shared history and our future together

 

 

 

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OMG  Sinn Fein MEP told Theresa May to stick you border where the sun doesn't shine but you're not putting it in Ireland   :rotfl:

 

 

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5 hours ago, XXL said:

OMG  Sinn Fein MEP told Theresa May to stick you border where the sun doesn't shine but you're not putting it in Ireland   :rotfl:

 

 

Love her!!!!!

I might well understand how she feels about Theresa May's hard Brexit. After all it looks as if it will have profound negative repercussions on both sides of a border the significance of which has diminished over the years.

But the conversations, need to be calmer and less aggressive, on all sides. Neither side has the monopoly on the use of language which alienates those with a different vision. Talk of "holding your nose" and "crocodiles" do the opposite of providing conditions whereby each can sit around a table and work towards getting this place functioning. "This place", now means all parts of this island, though immediate attention should be focused on avoiding Direct Rule.

I do anticipate that as a result of the Assembly election, the case is now stronger for a border poll. However, the EU Referendum should teach us to prepare the electorate better by providing them with verifiable economic information and visions as what a united Ireland would look like, from both Republican and Loyalist perspectives.

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6 hours ago, XXL said:

OMG  Sinn Fein MEP told Theresa May to stick you border where the sun doesn't shine but you're not putting it in Ireland   :rotfl:

 

 

She made my day! What a wonderful woman. 

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9 hours ago, XXL said:

OMG  Sinn Fein MEP told Theresa May to stick you border where the sun doesn't shine but you're not putting it in Ireland   :rotfl:

 

 

Haha. Love it!

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I love her accent :wow:

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It seems like there are very few politicians willing to stand up against this Tories tirrany led by Mrs May.  Once again women are our only hope for some change. The North Ireland border debate is very important but still no words on the matter. Even the assumption that the Scottish are a willing part to descend into this Brexit fiasco is another way for the people in power to sweep all those problems under the carpet and I'm not even mentioning the millions of English peeps who actually voted to stay in the EU. I just don't get how the Tories took this referendum results as such a huge demand to leave the EU when Brexit only won with a small margin. Still no planning, no deals, no reassurance about the future for the millions of EU citizens living in the U.K. and also the Brits living in the EU by the way. Once out of Europe who's going to challenge this Tories regime I may ask. They will privatise everything from NHS to the education system; the poor will be more marginalised alongside the few immigrants left and the wealthy will have total control. No wonder May even suggested they might transform the UK into a tax haven. And yet no one is doing anything. No political figure or even TV personality taking a stand. Everybody is quite and accepting what may come ( no pun intended lol). Only thing we seem to have achieved is to get rid of Piers Morgan from a daytime tv show. 

 

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1 hour ago, LSD said:

 

Nicola is great. Hopefully her actions would lead to the following: 1) Scotland staying within UK; 2) UK staying within EU.

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18 hours ago, XXL said:

Today Angus Robertson's the Lady Is For Turning to Theresa May

 

The FACE on her at 0:14 :rotfl: To put this into context, just before PMQs started, the chancellor backtracked on national insurance changes made only a week ago in the budget. A humiliating climb-down that the opposition should have grabbed with both hands. Bumbling Jeremy, with no time to re-draw his questions and his inability to think on his feet made a mess of PMQs again; at one point standing up making a point and sitting down again FORGETTING to actually ask a question, which May ran with to make him look a fool again. At the end of his questions she sat down and threw her head back laughing with relief that she'd had it easy again. Then with that one line, Robertson gets her and her face tells the whole story. Her demeanour always changes when she's facing him. 

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Maybot stuck on repeat as Sturgeon lets rip over referendum

Nicola Sturgeon and Theresa May.
 

 

“Now is not the time for a second independence referendum,” said Theresa May, tilting her head to one side like a patronising Princess Diana and fluttering her eyelids over the shoulders of ITV’s Robert Peston into what she imagined was the hearts of the Scottish people. The Scots stared back impassively.

“Then when is the right time?” enquired Peston reasonably.

“Now is not the time.”

Peston tried again. “Can we be clear about when you do think is the right time?”

“Now is not the time.” A virus had reinfected the Maybot and she was stuck on repeat.

“Yes, I get that, but...

“Now is not the time,” said the prime minister, unaware she was turning her bad week into a worse one.

“So what you’re saying is...”

“Now is not the time.”

 

 

Over in Holyrood, the Scottish first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, was only too happy to agree. Now was not the time to hold a second referendum. But sometime late next year when the Scots had had a chance to see how badly they were going to be screwed over Brexit would be.

The promised UK consensus that the prime minister had offered on any Brexit deal had already been relegated to a few text messages: “Soz. We R leaving the single market” and Sturgeon didn’t trust Westminster not to sell her country even further down the river.

First minister’s questions in Scotland is an altogether more enlightening affair than prime minister’s questions down south. Not least because serious questions get asked. And answered. It helps that the two main adversaries, Sturgeon and Conservative Ruth Davidson, are rather sharper than their UK counterparts – not difficult for Davidson as Jeremy Corbyn hit a new low at PMQs the day before by even forgetting to ask a couple of questions. It’s also a major plus that the rest of the chamber manages to listen without sounding like a Bash Street Kids school reunion. When each speaker has finished talking, there is a round of applause. Or silence. It’s disconcertingly polite.

Davidson opened by asking whether Sturgeon thought it was the right time to call for a referendum when Scottish schools were in such a mess. The first minister eyed her up. A civil question deserved a civil answer. Yes, there were problems in schools and she was doing her best to deal with them but that didn’t stop her multi-tasking in the national interest.

“Is it not true, though,” said Davidson, “that independent forecasts suggest independence would put Scotland £11bn in the red?”

This was Sturgeon’s moment to let rip. Ever so nicely, of course. The reason Scotland was running a deficit was because it had been under the control of the Westminster purse strings for so long. Surely it was time for Scotland to see if it could do better on its own, rather than risk being made even worse off by a hard Tory Brexit? And if they couldn’t then at least there would be the consolation of knowing the pain was self-inflicted?

Davidson kept going. She rather had to, as she’s the last politician standing in the UK between Scotland remaining in the UK and declaring a Unilateral Declaration of Independence. Unlike in the last independence referendum, Labour is now dead in the water in Scotland and the appearance of May on the campaign trail would send voters running into the arms of the SNP.

“I choose to put this parliament first,” said Davidson.

Bad move. Sturgeon quickly reminded her opposite number that she had a far higher share of the vote than Theresa – even taking into account the dodgy counts in Thanet and elsewhere – and had been elected on a manifesto that had promised a second referendum. “So I issue a direct challenge,” she concluded. “If next Wednesday, the Scottish parliament votes for a second referendum, will the Tories respect the will of this parliament?” Sod it. A party that lived by “The Will of the People” could also die by it.

Back in London, Theresa experienced a glimmer of hope. She may have just made a second independence referendum inevitable. But at least she’d given herself an even chance of delaying it until the Scots were completely penniless.

 

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20 hours ago, XXL said:

OMG  Sinn Fein MEP told Theresa May to stick you border where the sun doesn't shine but you're not putting it in Ireland   :rotfl:

 

 

tumblr_inline_np1m6zqHII1qi9fgw_500.gif

Some Scots and Irish politicians right now are the only ones making sense.

May those motherfucking Brexiters all choke to death on their fucking borders. Fuck 'em all. Ignorant bastards.

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15 hours ago, BrendanT1993 said:

Love her!!!!!

I might well understand how she feels about Theresa May's hard Brexit. After all it looks as if it will have profound negative repercussions on both sides of a border the significance of which has diminished over the years.

But the conversations, need to be calmer and less aggressive, on all sides. Neither side has the monopoly on the use of language which alienates those with a different vision. Talk of "holding your nose" and "crocodiles" do the opposite of providing conditions whereby each can sit around a table and work towards getting this place functioning. "This place", now means all parts of this island, though immediate attention should be focused on avoiding Direct Rule.

I do anticipate that as a result of the Assembly election, the case is now stronger for a border poll. However, the EU Referendum should teach us to prepare the electorate better by providing them with verifiable economic information and visions as what a united Ireland would look like, from both Republican and Loyalist perspectives.

 

 

Totally agree :thumbsup: 

Although for sheer entertainment value she's objectively funny addressing May with a "stick it where the sun doesn't shine" :rotfl: 

Look how May is ready to minimise the consequences of having a EU border built

As ready as she is to shut up Sturgeon when she legitimately brings up the issue of a second referendum

We are working closely with the devolved administrations my ass

So disrespectful and patronising

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3 hours ago, Kim said:

The FACE on her at 0:14 :rotfl: To put this into context, just before PMQs started, the chancellor backtracked on national insurance changes made only a week ago in the budget. A humiliating climb-down that the opposition should have grabbed with both hands. Bumbling Jeremy, with no time to re-draw his questions and his inability to think on his feet made a mess of PMQs again; at one point standing up making a point and sitting down again FORGETTING to actually ask a question, which May ran with to make him look a fool again. At the end of his questions she sat down and threw her head back laughing with relief that she'd had it easy again. Then with that one line, Robertson gets her and her face tells the whole story. Her demeanour always changes when she's facing him. 

 

 

:rotfl:  :rotfl: 

 

Someone like Mr Robertson should lead the Labour Party I guess, such a pity. I listened to what Corbyn said and I agree with the stuff he says but he looks and sounds like my late grandfather talking about something at 90. I think he is honest but a very ineffective communicator, the parts where he makes himself prone to being laughed at are the most painful to watch

When he stands up to make a point rather than asking the question was priceless, it's funny but felt bad about that prompting May's easy "the right hon gentleman perhaps hasn't got the hang of it yet" or something along those lines, with her huge Cruella Devil grin

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4 hours ago, elijah said:

Nicola is great. Hopefully her actions would lead to the following: 1) Scotland staying within UK; 2) UK staying within EU.

 

Sadly I think the dice is cast and the UK is out and we all stand to lose from it. The UK is a part of Europe, geographically and historically, since forever. Though I think that the 52% of British voters who said no to the EU should be respected in their choice.

I just wish those British politicians, first and foremost those that were/are pro Brexit of course, behaved a little bit more seriously about it and in a respectful manner to all parties involved, both domestically and internationally. I also think Scotland will likely end up having that second referendum and then it will really be the break up of two Unions. I just hope all of this is not going to have devastating effects on the Irish issue, a particularly sensitive one

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4 hours ago, Kim said:

The FACE on her at 0:14 :rotfl: To put this into context, just before PMQs started, the chancellor backtracked on national insurance changes made only a week ago in the budget. A humiliating climb-down that the opposition should have grabbed with both hands. Bumbling Jeremy, with no time to re-draw his questions and his inability to think on his feet made a mess of PMQs again; at one point standing up making a point and sitting down again FORGETTING to actually ask a question, which May ran with to make him look a fool again. At the end of his questions she sat down and threw her head back laughing with relief that she'd had it easy again. Then with that one line, Robertson gets her and her face tells the whole story. Her demeanour always changes when she's facing him. 

Jeremy Corbyn has to be replaced as leader.  He is not strong enough or can handle the likes of Teresa May.  She has a field day with him and sits there laughing like a cartoon villain.  People have to fight fire with fire and there needs to be strong leaders who are not afraid to go in hard and don't take a backward step.  In this political climate today,  it is not only needed but essential. 

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http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/lord-heseltine-letter-theresa-may-brexit-sacking_uk_58cadfbee4b00705db4d6fb8

Lord Heseltine Writes Classy And Withering Rebuke To Theresa May After His Brexit Sacking

58cae8f61d00001d107ced48.jpeg

 

 

 

Conservative former Cabinet minister Lord Heseltine has penned a polite but stinging rebuke to Theresa May after he was sacked as a Government adviser for rebelling over Brexit - reminding the PM she was once pro-EU too. The 83-year-old ex-deputy Prime Minister was last week among 13 Conservative peers who voted to give Parliament final approval on the deal the UK secures when quitting the bloc.

The amendment was stripped out of the ‘Brexit Bill’ when it returned to MPs and has not affected the legislation that paves the way for Article 50 to be triggered by the end of the month.

Lord Heseltine, who has long been avowedly pro-EU, has now written to the Prime Minister to make plain he “disagrees” with the sacking. And in the killer final line, the peer reminds the PM that she too campaigned to Remain in the EU last year: “The simple fact is you have changed your mind ... I have not.”

 

Here’s the key passage of the letter:

 

“You say in your letter I will understand the necessity to end that relationship. Here we disagree. In the referendum campaign it was recognised that so deeply held and so divided were the views on both sides that members of the Cabinet and other ministers were free to argue and vote against the government’s European policy without sanction.

“In my speech I made clear that my vote neither held up nor denied your ability to trigger Article 50. Indeed the urgency by which we heard so much in the time seems in the event to be diminished. My only vote was designed to give the House of Commons a second chance to enshrine in law a commitment you yourself had already given to allow Parliament a vote on any Brexit deal. The Commons declined the advice of the Lords and most Peers accepted the position.

“I have repeatedly said you have every right to end my relationship with the government. The simple fact is you have changed your mind since the excellent speech you made in the Referendum campaign arguing we should remain in the European Union. I have not.” 

 

 

The peer was asked to help the Government with plans to restore deprived estates under David Cameron and he also worked with George Osborne on plans for east London. He advised on plans for a Swansea city deal and has been working with the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. During the debate, Lord Heseltine said Parliament should be “the ultimate custodian of our national sovereignty”, suggesting MPs should get a veto on Brexit. He said: 

 

“I do not accept that the mandate for Brexit runs for all time and in all circumstances.

“The 48 per cent have the same right to be heard as those who voted for Brexit.”

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ITV Robert Peston interviewing Lord Heseltine

Heseltine talked about Foreign Secretarty Boris JO and expressed criticism over the current Tory approach

 

What do you make of Boris Johnson's claim that no Brexit deal would be a perfectly ok outcome for the British economy, do you agree?

Well, that's rubbish isn't it? Boris has turned the art of political communication into a science in which waffle, charm, delay, anything to actually stop answering questions. He does it magnificently   :rotfl: 

 

Do you think you will be able to change people's minds on Brexit?

Not me dear boy, events I'm afraid will

Fact of the matter is that the consequences have been completely masked which is not surprising, two things: devaluation always has produced, historically, a short term boost, and I remember what the Tory party, which I am a proud member of, said about devaluation, they regarded it as an economic disaster for this country which unleashed inflation which in turn underrode the advantages of the devaluation 

And the second thing that has happened and that it's almost unbelievable to me is that we have been sustained by consumers drawing down their savings, it's like 2008 all over again

We are looking at a situation where there is huge pressure from the Brexiteers for government to start spending more money, the Tories rightly said we have to cut public expenditure but now the Brexiteers want to bring it up again, they want to increase the national debt which I thought we were in the business of not doing and we are actually in a situation where the public are blowing their savings on consumption and that is exactly what we shouldn't be doing

 

 

03:20 onwards

 

 

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1 hour ago, XXL said:

The UK is a part of Europe, geographically and historically, since forever. Though I think that the 52% of British voters who said no to the EU should be respected in their choice.

Most of the people who voted in favor of this absurd charade have voted with the sole intent of kicking all immigrants out. Most of the people who voted in favor happily swallowed lies after lie after lie without doing their homework on what the EU might have provided in their area. See Cornwall now regretting their decision. The level of disrespect shown by those who voted for Brexit against any immigrant living in the UK is appalling. That in my books grant them zero respect.

They can all fuck off and sink down their tax haven toilet doing deals with Trump America.

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Remember Madonna five years ago in Paris? Not paraphrasing here but roughly when things seem to go to shit, people get scared, become intolerant and what do they do? They fucking blame others over their own problems. That's exactly what Brexit is to most of the Brits who voted in favor to leave the EU, an excuse to blame others for their own utterly disgusting demented filthy ignorance.

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37 minutes ago, pjcowley said:

Most of the people who voted in favor of this absurd charade have voted with the sole intent of kicking all immigrants out. Most of the people who voted in favor happily swallowed lies after lie after lie without doing their homework on what the EU might have provided in their area. See Cornwall now regretting their decision. The level of disrespect shown by those who voted for Brexit against any immigrant living in the UK is appalling. That in my books grant them zero respect.

They can all fuck off and sink down their tax haven toilet doing deals with Trump America.

 

Oh I agree with that, immigration, xenophobia, fear mongering over "they are taking our jobs" played a huge part. Never mind the UK not only kept the Pound and that's why they haven't sunk nearly as low as other EU countries in the aftermath of 2008-2009 (fits right in with the attitude of selective choice, cherrypicking etc)  and that they have taken a fraction of the people that were allowed into France, Italy, Spain, Greece or Germany when you think about the refugee crisis

I was just saying that a referendum was allowed to go ahead and on such a delicate constitutional issue that would have HAD international repercussions in the first place, the thing is that it was allowed to take place to solve an internal party politics issue and only granted by Cameron back in 2013 when he saw that UKIP might have eroded votes from the Tory Party, it was all a gamble from the start. 

What I find more annoying than a Brit being averse to the EU is the attitude of those politicians in dealing with this proposed choice, before and after the outcome

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19 hours ago, XXL said:

I listened to what Corbyn said and I agree with the stuff he says but he looks and sounds like my late grandfather talking about something at 90. I think he is honest but a very ineffective communicator, the parts where he makes himself prone to being laughed at are the most painful to watch

When he stands up to make a point rather than asking the question was priceless, it's funny but felt bad about that prompting May's easy "the right hon gentleman perhaps hasn't got the hang of it yet" or something along those lines, with her huge Cruella Devil grin

Yes, I don't necessarily disagree with what he says most of the time, unfortunately a great majority of his OWN parliamentary party does though and his rhetoric ends up sounding hollow. He's not a great communicator or debater and that is unfortunately a vital part of being opposition leader. He really should have hammered the Tories on that u-turn, and on the burgeoning electoral fraud expenses scandal, and on Davis' admittance that there is no plan B if the Brexit negotiations in Europe result in no consensus. Instead, he makes the news for bumbling again.

18 hours ago, jazzyjan said:

Jeremy Corbyn has to be replaced as leader.  He is not strong enough or can handle the likes of Teresa May.  She has a field day with him and sits there laughing like a cartoon villain.  People have to fight fire with fire and there needs to be strong leaders who are not afraid to go in hard and don't take a backward step.  In this political climate today,  it is not only needed but essential. 

Totally. There's already been an attempt to oust him with a leadership contest and unfortunately he got the most votes from Labour party members nationwide (that's how Labour decide their leader)... the second time he's won such a vote, so there's no chance of him going unless there's a full on revolt in the backbenches that prevent him from even being nominated in the first place and that would just tear the Labour party apart and make it even more un-electable than it already is. SO... the Tories are basically untouchable for the forseeable.

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