I have come to love the album version of...this much-maligned song

[Guest Not4Pussies]

"its more easily said, its always been the same" SO TRUE

[Pink Matter]

Deleted

But not completely

Edited December 7, 2013 by Pink Matter

[Guest bluejean]

This thread is about the song American Life, not the album.

We were/are discussing the album though.

[5iVe Elements]

I wasn't a fan when I heard the song initially year(s) after its release. I fell in love with it instantly and made me see Madonna's music is great beyond her more successful singles. I love that sonic clash in AL.

[ULIZOS]

We were/are discussing the album though.

Nah boo. The thread is about the much-maligned song.

[Guest bluejean]

Nah boo. The thread is about the much-maligned song.

Is there a forum rule we can't discuss the album in a thread about the song? I feel like they are closely related for some reason

[nightcutter]

Hang on. Madonna didn't include it on Celebration. I guess she also thinks it's shit.

[Pink Matter]

Hang on. Madonna didn't include it on Celebration. I guess she also thinks it's shit.

Im so happy about that, I don't mind including beautiful flops as Miles Away though, that was a great decision.

[Guest bluejean]

Some of the choices for Celebration were beyond weird. Especially Miles Away and Hollywood.

[Guest bluejean]

Hang on. Madonna didn't include it on Celebration. I guess she also thinks it's shit.

Remember how she quoted the song in one of the MDNA shows. It'll make a return on tour I am almost certain.

[Guest]

Hang on. Madonna didn't include it on Celebration. I guess she also thinks it's shit.

Madonna had very little to do with the tracklisting of Celebration, I'm sure.

[Guest bluejean]

Madonna had very little to do with the tracklisting of Celebration, I'm sure.

Since when?

[ryan]

Madonna had very little to do with the tracklisting of Celebration, I'm sure.

Nah I doubt it.

I think she wanted to put more songs on that she could see herself performing again in the future.

She also kinda mocked AL's lack of success during the request section on Sticky, from what I recall...

[Guest]

Since when?

Why would she give a shit? You can tell she was involved in the Immaculate collection at least stylistically but GHV2 less so and Celebration I doubt much at all. It was a cash in by the record label and she was contractually required to submit the songs. Madonna doesn't really like 'greatest hits' as she has said herself several times.

[material_boy]

Why would she give a shit? You can tell she was involved in the Immaculate collection at least stylistically but GHV2 less so and Celebration I doubt much at all. It was a cash in by the record label and she was contractually required to submit the songs. Madonna doesn't really like 'greatest hits' as she has said herself several times.

You're making an assumption here without providing any evidence to back you up, and you're at least half wrong. There are many interviews from 2001 which suggest she was heavily involved with "GHV2"'s development:

• She said that she chose all tracks to appear on the collection
• She stated that it was her decision to not include a new song
• She specifically stated that it was her decision to not include "American Pie"
• She said she went through many working titles before settling on "GHV2"
• She said that she approved the timing of its release because it felt like a good capstone to the year, as she'd just finished the tour

So the idea that she wasn't involved with "GHV2" is incorrect, unless you think she was lying to Jo Whiley, Matt Lauer, and everyone else who interviewed her about it.

[material_boy]

Some of the choices for Celebration were beyond weird. Especially Miles Away and Hollywood.

Especially at the expense of some major hits -- "True Blue," "Deeper and Deeper," "This Used to be my Playground," "I'll Remember," "You'll See," to name a few.

[Starman]

Especially at the expense of some major hits -- "True Blue," "Deeper and Deeper," "This Used to be my Playground," "I'll Remember," "You'll See," to name a few.

those are not major hits anyway

i think celebration was great

Hollywood was there instead of AL and Miles away was her last single i guess

[Guest]

You're making an assumption here without providing any evidence to back you up, and you're at least half wrong. There are many interviews from 2001 which suggest she was heavily involved with "GHV2"'s development:

• She said that she chose all tracks to appear on the collection
• She stated that it was her decision to not include a new song
• She specifically stated that it was her decision to not include "American Pie"
• She said she went through many working titles before settling on "GHV2"
• She said that she approved the timing of its release because it felt like a good capstone to the year, as she'd just finished the tour

So the idea that she wasn't involved with "GHV2" is incorrect, unless you think she was lying to Jo Whiley, Matt Lauer, and everyone else who interviewed her about it.

I never said that she wasn't involved at all. I said she was less involved than TIC. Which is a fact. I'm quite certain that she didn't put much effort into celebration at all. Think about the photo shoots for immaculate collection...the video, the name of the album etcetera. It was a funk experience. I am not criticising celebration...it is what it is. I'm just not under the illusion that Madonna was involved much.

[material_boy]

I never said that she wasn't involved at all. I said she was less involved than TIC. Which is a fact. I'm quite certain that she didn't put much effort into celebration at all. Think about the photo shoots for immaculate collection...the video, the name of the album etcetera. It was a funk experience. I am not criticising celebration...it is what it is. I'm just not under the illusion that Madonna was involved much.

This is just more speculation and assumption. Where exactly is the evidence that says she was more involved in "TIC" than any other hits set?

[material_boy]

those are not major hits anyway

i think celebration was great

Hollywood was there instead of AL and Miles away was her last single i guess

"True Blue" was a number one hit in several countries, including the UK -- one of the largest markets in the world -- and remains one of her biggest radio hits in catalogue play. "TUTBMP" was number one in the States -- the largest music market in the world.

So, how are these not major hits?

[Guest Xanthium]

The video

The song without its lyrics

The song with its lyrics minus the rap part

The song with its lyrics and the rap part

Brilliant usage of Miss Nina.

I like AL, it just sucked as a lead single and was marred by an embarrassing rap and some cringeworthy lyrics. I still think the remix (forget which one) was vastly superior. It had a melody.

[Guest]

This is just more speculation and assumption. Where exactly is the evidence that says she was more involved in "TIC" than any other hits set?

The proof is in the pudding. :-/ Seriously, I don't understand how you can argue otherwise.

[ryan]

The proof is in the pudding. :-/ Seriously, I don't understand how you can argue otherwise.

There really is no pudding except Shep Pettibone who probably had more control over the tracklisting than anyone else.

[Guest]

There really is no pudding except Shep Pettibone who probably had more control over the tracklisting than anyone else.

The pudding is each finished product. The immaculate collection is a homemade tray of La Religieuse while Celebration is Angel delight.

[material_boy]

The proof is in the pudding. :-/ Seriously, I don't understand how you can argue otherwise.

You seem to lack an understanding of the words "speculation" and "evidence" because, again, this is speculation.

The pudding is each finished product. The immaculate collection is a homemade tray of La Religieuse while Celebration is Angel delight.

You're speculating that Madonna had more involvement in "Immaculate" because it is a comparatively superior product than "GHV2" or "Celebration," at least in your opinion. If you have a link to something -- an interview from Madonna, Liz Rosenberg, a Warner executive, etc. -- that states that she was involved in the minutiae of "Immaculate" and comparatively uninvolved in either of the other projects, then you're correct and I invite you to please prove us wrong.

Otherwise, you're just doubling down on unfounded statements. If that's the case then, please, leave us alone and get a better vocabulary.

[Guest Xanthium]

Oh snap!

[Guest]

You seem to lack an understanding of the words "speculation" and "evidence" because, again, this is speculation.

You're speculating that Madonna had more involvement in "Immaculate" because it is a comparatively superior product than "GHV2" or "Celebration," at least in your opinion. If you have a link to something -- an interview from Madonna, Liz Rosenberg, a Warner executive, etc. -- that states that she was involved in the minutiae of "Immaculate" and comparatively uninvolved in either of the other projects, then you're correct and I invite you to please prove us wrong.

Otherwise, you're just doubling down on unfounded statements. If that's the case then, please, leave us alone and get a better vocabulary.

Do you know what vocabulary is? Your appropriation of the word suggests that you don't. Then again, you seem to be rather simple.

1) Guy Oseary asked the fans via twitter for input on the track listing.

2) There was no new campaign shot specifically for celebration. Instead a collage was created. As you are such a clever boy I'm sure you can spot the difference between the IC booklet and the Celebration booklet.

3) The different purchase options available show how it was designed as a way to accrue as much monetary profit as possible. There was an iTunes special edition. There was a video edition with VIDEOS WHICH HADN'T BEEN ON DVD BEFORE. Then there were two different disc versions. Certain tracks were available on different editions.

You have to be stupid not to realise that Warner were maximising their investment while they could.

If Madonna had a solid vision it would have appeared as such.

4) This is nothing to do with quality or my personal opinion of the project. I loved Celebration and I adored the new songs.

5) When artists sign record deals they are kept to the promise very tightly and if they don't keep that promise they receive a lot of issues. Just ask George Michael. Madonna was fulfilling her contractual obligation. This was nothing to do with her personal vision.

6) Evidence doesn't just come from the repeated word of others. If Liz Rosenburg said Madonna ate fifty pizzas a week would you believe it? If it was written in a newspaper that Madonna said her favourite song of all time was 'What does the fox say?' would you believe that too? The EVIDENCE is the work itself. Maybe you should look a bit deeper.

[VogueMusic]

I think - if anything - she is at least involved, and has the final say, on the final tracklist.

That, at the very least, makes the most sense...considering what we do know of Madonna. Nothing goes out without her final say-so (Regardless of how "involved" she is). She obviously was fine with the tracklist of Celebration.

[M.Dolla]

Didn't Madonna say she chose for Celebration to open with Hung Up because it's a bad-ass song?

[Guest]

Madonna is strong minded and involved with her work but those of you who think that Warner had no input into single releases etcetera need to get your head out of the sand. Yes Madonna is willed but she also signed a contract. Duh.