Madonna wanted to produce "Precious"

[peter]

Madonna wanted 'Precious'

Nov. 6, 2009, 8:40 PM EST

Madonna was almost Mariah Carey's boss on acclaimed new movie "Precious" -- the pop superstar was among the first people to show an interest in adapting author Sapphire's gritty drama into a film.

The writer decided the Material Girl wasn't a good fit and declined her offer to produce the film, about an obese, illiterate teenager.

Sapphire also turned down other interested parties until moviemaker Lee Daniels convinced her he was the right man for the job.

Sapphire tells Entertainment Weekly magazine, "There was this really earnest college student with his backpack on who wanted to do his first film, and then Madonna wanted to produce it. I was like, 'Madonna? I don't think this is her film.'"

And the author recalls one potential producer who had his cast all mapped out: "This one producer told me he had found Precious - and it was going to be (singer/actress) Brandy. Excuse me? I literally almost hung up on him."

And then Daniels came along with a cast of friends and the idea of casting Jane Fonda as Precious' social worker. He eventually settled on Helen Mirren and then turned to Carey when the Brit had to quit the project at the last minute.

Source: http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=440597&gt1=28101

---

[i fail to understand why it was not okay for Madonna to be involved in this film, but then it was totally okay for Mariah Carey and Oprah Winfrey et al. That just seems a little strange to me... I don't know why this irks me at all. I'll be over it in two seconds, but ugh. Madonna makes enough film missteps without other people having to step in and trumpet the opportunities they've kept her from having.]

[Guest Not4Pussies]

imagine if precious gets nominated for best picture?

there go her chances again

[afrolito]

Madonna wanted 'Precious'

Nov. 6, 2009, 8:40 PM EST

Madonna was almost Mariah Carey's boss on acclaimed new movie "Precious" -- the pop superstar was among the first people to show an interest in adapting author Sapphire's gritty drama into a film.

The writer decided the Material Girl wasn't a good fit and declined her offer to produce the film, about an obese, illiterate teenager.

Sapphire also turned down other interested parties until moviemaker Lee Daniels convinced her he was the right man for the job.

Sapphire tells Entertainment Weekly magazine, "There was this really earnest college student with his backpack on who wanted to do his first film, and then Madonna wanted to produce it. I was like, 'Madonna? I don't think this is her film.'"

And the author recalls one potential producer who had his cast all mapped out: "This one producer told me he had found Precious - and it was going to be (singer/actress) Brandy. Excuse me? I literally almost hung up on him."

And then Daniels came along with a cast of friends and the idea of casting Jane Fonda as Precious' social worker. He eventually settled on Helen Mirren and then turned to Carey when the Brit had to quit the project at the last minute.

Source: http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=440597&gt1=28101

---

[i fail to understand why it was not okay for Madonna to be involved in this film, but then it was totally okay for Mariah Carey and Oprah Winfrey et al. That just seems a little strange to me... I don't know why this irks me at all. I'll be over it in two seconds, but ugh. Madonna makes enough film missteps without other people having to step in and trumpet the opportunities they've kept her from having.]

Sapphire probably didn't think a wealthy white woman could relate to, or bring the story to the screen in an effective way. Lee Daniels is black, and she probably felt it was important for a black creative voice to bring it to fruition. Mariah was only involved because of her friendship with Lee, and Oprah coming on board helped the film get distribution, and great publicity.

I read Push, when it came out, and like everyone else, was blown away by the viceral power of it. Definitely one of the hardest books I have ever read. I NEVER thought it would or could be made into a film. I look forward to seeing it tomorrow.

I love that Madonna has such wide and varied interests, but ultimately it's a good thing she's not involved with this project.

[peter]

Well, in the full Entertainment Weekly article, it was also made clear that originally Sapphire did not think that Lee Daniels was an appropriate choice either. I'm sure she was just very protective of her work, which is understandable. Obviously, she ended up making a good choice, based on the media and festival response to the film, and it's fortunate that he was able to persuade her to let him direct the project.

That said, if Madonna wanted to produce, it sounds like she would have been providing financial backing (not necessarily getting involved in the directing of the film)... which would still have left room for other creative involvement from people who would be more "appropriate" choices than Madonna, though I still can't understand why the idea of her involvement is so laughable.

Not to be too judgmental, but the notion that poverty only affects people of one skin color is slightly narrow-minded. While the racial themes may be important in this work, I don't think it's fair to say Madonna should not have been involved based on her skin color. And obviously wealth can't be a determining factor either, given all the other people who have now become attached to the project (regardless of whether that's pre- or post-production). I don't want to get into a charged conversation about this, but I just think it's an odd argument to say Madonna's skin color disqualifies her from being moved by the story and wanting to be involved in helping to tell that story on film.

[peter]

Oh, also, I didn't realize until today that Lenny Kravitz is in this film, as well. (Another slight Madonna connection!)

[erotica blu]

God bless Madonna for even showing interest in the material.

[afrolito]

Well, in the full Entertainment Weekly article, it was also made clear that originally Sapphire did not think that Lee Daniels was an appropriate choice either. I'm sure she was just very protective of her work, which is understandable. Obviously, she ended up making a good choice, based on the media and festival response to the film, and it's fortunate that he was able to persuade her to let him direct the project.

That said, if Madonna wanted to produce, it sounds like she would have been providing financial backing (not necessarily getting involved in the directing of the film)... which would still have left room for other creative involvement from people who would be more "appropriate" choices than Madonna, though I still can't understand why the idea of her involvement is so laughable.

Not to be too judgmental, but the notion that poverty only affects people of one skin color is slightly narrow-minded. While the racial themes may be important in this work, I don't think it's fair to say Madonna should not have been involved based on her skin color. And obviously wealth can't be a determining factor either, given all the other people who have now become attached to the project (regardless of whether that's pre- or post-production). I don't want to get into a charged conversation about this, but I just think it's an odd argument to say Madonna's skin color disqualifies her from being moved by the story and wanting to be involved in helping to tell that story on film.

To be fair to Sapphire, she never said that Madonna's ethnicity automatically disqualified her, but I have no doubt it factored into her thinking. I'm actually blown away that Madonna even read Push, and was so obviously moved by it.

[erotica blu]

Well, in the full Entertainment Weekly article, it was also made clear that originally Sapphire did not think that Lee Daniels was an appropriate choice either. I'm sure she was just very protective of her work, which is understandable. Obviously, she ended up making a good choice, based on the media and festival response to the film, and it's fortunate that he was able to persuade her to let him direct the project.

That said, if Madonna wanted to produce, it sounds like she would have been providing financial backing (not necessarily getting involved in the directing of the film)... which would still have left room for other creative involvement from people who would be more "appropriate" choices than Madonna, though I still can't understand why the idea of her involvement is so laughable.

Not to be too judgmental, but the notion that poverty only affects people of one skin color is slightly narrow-minded. While the racial themes may be important in this work, I don't think it's fair to say Madonna should not have been involved based on her skin color. And obviously wealth can't be a determining factor either, given all the other people who have now become attached to the project (regardless of whether that's pre- or post-production). I don't want to get into a charged conversation about this, but I just think it's an odd argument to say Madonna's skin color disqualifies her from being moved by the story and wanting to be involved in helping to tell that story on film.

Wealthy white financers produced Precious in the end anyway – so race may not have been a huge factor.

[peter]

To be fair to Sapphire, she never said that Madonna's ethnicity automatically disqualified her, but I have no doubt it factored into her thinking. I'm actually blown away that Madonna even read Push, and was so obviously moved by it.

Agreed. You are right -- we don't really know the real reason that Sapphire thought it wasn't Madonna's movie. I suppose -- at this point -- it really doesn't even matter. We don't really even know the timeline of when Madonna approached her about it.

[Guest Hot Revolver]

U push me!

Keep on pushin like nobody

i think madonna would do a good job, it would of been interesting how her it would be different

[Flip The Switch]

God bless Madonna for even showing interest in the material.

[Guest bluejean]

It's just as well she didn't get involved or she may have canned the Sticky & Sweet tour to direct some movie. And Mariah wouldn't have been in it that's for sure

Oh and the movie wouldn't be doing this well. Sorry, but its true. There is a stigma attached to Madonna and movies. I hope she can prove herself as a director with her next project I really do. But she'll have to do something amazing to win critics and the public over.

[loomer]

imagine if precious gets nominated for best picture?

It will

Almost guaranteed now that there are 10 slots for best picture

[acko]

I don't get the cynicism 4 Madonna being potentially involved as a producer.

I mean really now...SO She's a rich white lady. Am I supposed 2 beleive that

a film starring Mo'Nique & Mariah Carey has more on paper credibility?

Lola sez : 'Puh-leaze..'

[Nightshade]

Oh well. Perhaps it was because she was white, but perhaps not. I honestly don't think most people in Hollywood want any of their films attached to Madonna in any way simply because Madonna + Film equals negative publicity to the general public. Not to mention her celebrity would've overshadowed the hype the small indie film has gotten on its own. There are even reports right now (which may not be true) that she is having trouble getting financing for that W.E. movie.

On the other side of the coin, I do think there is a relative lack of support in the African-American community for Madonna. Despite being a long-time supporter of rights and performers from that background, I think there is a general attitude of "Thanks, but no thanks" when it comes to her. Does anyone else see that? Perhaps it's just my perception.

[GimmeSomeMo]

On the other side of the coin, I do think there is a relative lack of support in the African-American community for Madonna. Despite being a long-time supporter of rights and performers from that background, I think there is a general attitude of "Thanks, but no thanks" when it comes to her. Does anyone else see that? Perhaps it's just my perception.

I agree. Why do you think that is, though.

[afrolito]

Oh well. Perhaps it was because she was white, but perhaps not. I honestly don't think most people in Hollywood want any of their films attached to Madonna in any way simply because Madonna + Film equals negative publicity to the general public. Not to mention her celebrity would've overshadowed the hype the small indie film has gotten on its own. There are even reports right now (which may not be true) that she is having trouble getting financing for that W.E. movie.

On the other side of the coin, I do think there is a relative lack of support in the African-American community for Madonna. Despite being a long-time supporter of rights and performers from that background, I think there is a general attitude of "Thanks, but no thanks" when it comes to her. Does anyone else see that? Perhaps it's just my perception.

That's just your perception. Black people are not monolithic, and we certainly don't all think the same way. I've been a fan since day one, and know many other blacks who feel the same about her. I also know black people who are indifferent to her. It is what it is. She doesn't deserve any particular reverence from black people just because she likes black music,works with black producers, or adopted two african children.

Her real lack of support is coming from the white community. They're the ones who own the radio stations that refuse to play her music, and the mass media that is constantly slagging her off as an irrelevant has been.

[Nightshade]

That's just your perception. Black people are not monolithic, and we certainly don't all think the same way.

That is why I said "relative lack of support." When one speaks of a community a consensus of thought is what is applied. Just like when I say kids 18-25 don't seem to be as supportive of Madonna as say 25-35 year olds. I am not saying there are no fans in that age range, yet the general view may still hold true.

There is actually an interesting essay (with some striking criticisms of Madonna) written by bell hooks - an African-American feminist and professor at City College in NYC:

http://stevenstanley.tripod.com/docs/bellhooks/madonna.html

I think it is a valid discussion.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

That kinda pisses me off that Madonna was rejected because she's old and white... Oprah may be old and black but she's about as assimilated into "white culture" as an African-American celebrity can get. And let's not even get into Mariah, no matter how many rappers she works with, she's still an outsider who overcompensates IMO.

The writer is a bitch to object on race. Steven Spielberg did The Color Purple and it didn't hurt the movie at all that a white guy directed a "black" movie.

[Ciccone's Cheeks]

mimi NEVER woulda done this if M became her "boss" lol. She would of just dropped out.Her ego, jealousy and hatred is too big - to let M be her boss for anything,

[afrolito]

That kinda pisses me off that Madonna was rejected because she's old and white... Oprah may be old and black but she's about as assimilated into "white culture" as an African-American celebrity can get. And let's not even get into Mariah, no matter how many rappers she works with, she's still an outsider who overcompensates IMO.

The writer is a bitch to object on race. Steven Spielberg did The Color Purple and it didn't hurt the movie at all that a white guy directed a "black" movie.

Why are you attacking Sapphire?? She NEVER said she rejected Madonna based on her race. That was purely conjecture on my part, although I'm willing to bet it played a role in her thought process. What exactly is "white culture"? Oprah's wealth doesn't diminish her blackness, and it certainly doesn't equal whiteness. Mariah is a woman of color, and doesn't have to overcompensate for anything. She is what she is, and her fanbase accepts her for that.

Sapphire is a wonderful writer, and I doubt you ever even heard of Push, much less read it. Pick it up, and you might learn something. There was a huge controversy when The color purple was made. Many african american leaders and talking heads objected to the way Steven Speielberg adapted the novel, and felt it was a yet another stereotypical portrayal of black men in particular. To be fair to him, that element was already in the novel, but it didn't lessen the criticism he got. I thought the film was great (the best thing Whoopi EVER did), but I know plenty of people who still can't watch it.

[Nightshade]

I agree. Why do you think that is, though.

I will probably be attacked for why I think she doesn't have widespread support in the African-American community, but here goes...

Despite her general stance of equal rights and speaking out against discrimination - which I do think many minorities have identified with in her work - it's my impression that the black community may have once been more behind her than they are now. I believe that there is probably some suspicion of people who speak out on behalf of a minority who haven't actually gone through what that group of people has experienced. Sort of like, "You haven't lived it, so don't act like you know what I've gone through." I am sure there is an appreciation for her support over the years, or any number of things she has done, but when a community has struggle for as long as African-Americans have, they probably feel that they own their future based on the hard work they have done to get there. And quite frankly, they are right to feel that way if so.

That kinda pisses me off that Madonna was rejected because she's old and white... Oprah may be old and black but she's about as assimilated into "white culture" as an African-American celebrity can get. And let's not even get into Mariah, no matter how many rappers she works with, she's still an outsider who overcompensates IMO.

The writer is a bitch to object on race. Steven Spielberg did The Color Purple and it didn't hurt the movie at all that a white guy directed a "black" movie.

I don't think you should get pissed off because we don't know the real reason. Madonna is a very polarizing person and it may not have even been anything to do with her race. It is dangerous to jump to that conclusion as the definitive reason when NO one affiliated with the movie has even made that statement.

[afrolito]

That is why I said "relative lack of support." When one speaks of a community a consensus of thought is what is applied. Just like when I say kids 18-25 don't seem to be as supportive of Madonna as say 25-35 year olds. I am not saying there are no fans in that age range, yet the general view may still hold true.

There is actually an interesting essay (with some striking criticisms of Madonna) written by bell hooks - an African-American feminist and professor at City College in NYC:

http://stevenstanley.tripod.com/docs/bellhooks/madonna.html

I think it is a valid discussion.

But you're not even qualified to make that much of an assumption.

I read that essay by Bell years ago. Definitely a thought provoking read at the time. I would love to know how her views have changed or solidified over the years. Particularly post adoptions.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

Why are you attacking Sapphire?? She NEVER said she rejected Madonna based on her race. That was purely conjecture on my part, although I'm willing to bet it played a role in her thought process. What exactly is "white culture"? Oprah's wealth doesn't diminish her blackness, and it certainly doesn't equal whiteness. Mariah is a woman of color, and doesn't have to overcompensate for anything. She is what she is, and her fanbase accepts her for that.

Sapphire is a wonderful writer, and I doubt you ever even heard of Push, much less read it. Pick it up, and you might learn something. There was a huge controversy when The color purple was made. Many african american leaders and talking heads objected to the way Steven Speielberg adapted the novel, and felt it was a yet another stereotypical portrayal of black men in particular. To be fair to him, that element was already in the novel, but it didn't lessen the criticism he got. I thought the film was great (the best thing Whoopi EVER did), but I know plenty of people who still can't watch it.

Mariah may be a "woman of color", but she grew up in a wealthy suburb and went to a preppy 99% white high school and was listening to music Journey, Foreigner, Phil Collins and Def Leppard (all of which she's covered). She didn't get into the whole hip hop thing until she realized she could cash in, and suddenly Mariah was all urban and street?

Please. In "white" terms, it would be like trying to say Toby Keith or Clay Aiken wouldn't look like fakes and outsiders if they tried to make heavy metal music. What's the difference?

[afrolito]

Mariah may be a "woman of color", but she grew up in a wealthy suburb and went to a preppy 99% white high school and was listening to music Journey, Foreigner, Phil Collins and Def Leppard (all of which she's covered). She didn't get into the whole hip hop thing until she realized she could cash in, and suddenly Mariah was all urban and street?

Please. In "white" terms, it would be like trying to say Toby Keith or Clay Aiken wouldn't look like fakes and outsiders if they tried to make heavy metal music. What's the difference?

I went to wealthy prep school in Boston, listened to foreigner, phill Collins, and Deff Leppard too. Who knew Mariah and I had so much in common? It might come as a shock to you, but not all black people grew up in the "hood", loving hip hop. Some of us had two parents who were professional, lived in the suburbs, and even went to good schools. Who knew?

[Guest nothingfails0603]

I went to wealthy prep school in Boston, listened to foreigner, phill Collins, and Deff Leppard too. Who knew Mariah and I had so much in common? It might come as a shock to you, but not all black people grew up in the "hood", loving hip hop. Some of us had two parents who were professional, lived in the suburbs, and even went to good schools. Who knew?

Tell that to Mariah who suddenly reinvented herself with a street image and started hanging around rappers and everything to make her look more credible.

You keep forgetting... if Clay Aiken started trying to rebrand himself as a heavy metal or punk singer, would you not think he looks like a huge fake and outsider trying to look like something he isn't? White people come in all sorts of different shapes and types just like blacks. To be a preppy pop singing girl next door and then try to pass yourself off as someone who came from "the hood" is no less fake than if Clay tried to go punk or metal.

[Nightshade]

But you're not even qualified to make that much of an assumption.

What makes one qualified to have an opinion? Because I am white I cannot offer insight from the outside? By arguing that you are saying that no one can look objectively at a situation unless they are a part of it and I am not sure that is true.

Also, I am not basing my assumptions solely on my own point of view. There have been several in the African-American community who have made statements which lend credence to that theory. In the early 90's Arsenio Hall gave an interview to JET where he said he liked Madonna but felt as though she appropriated black culture for her own gain and that she shouldn't be in a place to dictate black fashion to anyone.

At the time when Madonna was "dating" Tupac people claimed he wouldn't be public about it because his close friends and family had a problem with her being "white."

And let's not forget Madonna herself:

Pop music superstar Madonna recently told Spin magazine, "I've never been treated more disrespectfully as a woman than by the Black men that I've dated."

In Spin's January 1996 issue, the seductive entertainer revealed she never expressed her controversial opinion before, but she thought the way Black men treated her was a reflection of their culture.

Madonna, who was once involved in a highly publicized relationship with colorful, controversial basketball star Dennis Rodman of the Chicago Bulls, went on to say, "I think Black men have just been s--- on for so long, that, in a way, Black women are maybe more willing to accept rage from a Black man, because they see what's happened to them."

She said many Black men grow up without fathers or strong male figures, and they are used to seeing men disrespect women.

In the exclusive interview, Madonna noted she thought she appealed to Blacks because she's a female, therefore in a minority group also. But she said she later realized that the Black community does not support her.

"I identified with Black men because I thought in a way we experience the same things--people treat you like s---'cause you're Black, people treat you like s---'cause you're a woman."

The outspoken singer went on to say, "And I came to the realization that a strong female is frightening to everybody, because all societies are male-dominated--Black societies, poor people, rich people, any racial group, they're all dominated by men. A strong female is going to threaten everybody across the board."

So yes, I do feel as though I have enough data to at least put the point forward for discussion as a possibility. It really annoys me when people say "you don't have right to comment on that because you aren't..." I don't have to be Jewish to say the Holocaust was a horrific thing. I don't have to be Palestinian to say Israel kills innocent people in the West Bank (and vice versa). I don't have to be a drug addict to say drugs can be a destructive thing.

[afrolito]

What makes one qualified to have an opinion? Because I am white I cannot offer insight from the outside? By arguing that you are saying that no one can look objectively at a situation unless they are a part of it and I am not sure that is true.

Also, I am not basing my assumptions solely on my own point of view. There have been several in the African-American community who have made statements which lend credence to that theory. In the early 90's Arsenio Hall gave an interview to JET where he said he liked Madonna but felt as though she appropriated black culture for her own gain and that she shouldn't be in a place to dictate black fashion to anyone.

At the time when Madonna was "dating" Tupac people claimed he wouldn't be public about it because his close friends and family had a problem with her being "white."

And let's not forget Madonna herself:

Pop music superstar Madonna recently told Spin magazine, "I've never been treated more disrespectfully as a woman than by the Black men that I've dated."

In Spin's January 1996 issue, the seductive entertainer revealed she never expressed her controversial opinion before, but she thought the way Black men treated her was a reflection of their culture.

Madonna, who was once involved in a highly publicized relationship with colorful, controversial basketball star Dennis Rodman of the Chicago Bulls, went on to say, "I think Black men have just been s--- on for so long, that, in a way, Black women are maybe more willing to accept rage from a Black man, because they see what's happened to them."

She said many Black men grow up without fathers or strong male figures, and they are used to seeing men disrespect women.

In the exclusive interview, Madonna noted she thought she appealed to Blacks because she's a female, therefore in a minority group also. But she said she later realized that the Black community does not support her.

"I identified with Black men because I thought in a way we experience the same things--people treat you like s---'cause you're Black, people treat you like s---'cause you're a woman."

The outspoken singer went on to say, "And I came to the realization that a strong female is frightening to everybody, because all societies are male-dominated--Black societies, poor people, rich people, any racial group, they're all dominated by men. A strong female is going to threaten everybody across the board."

So yes, I do feel as though I have enough data to at least put the point forward for discussion as a possibility. It really annoys me when people say "you don't have right to comment on that because you aren't..." I don't have to be Jewish to say the Holocaust was a horrific thing. I don't have to be Palestinian to say Israel kills innocent people in the West Bank (and vice versa). I don't have to be a drug addict to say drugs can be a destructive thing.

You were making assumptions based on ZERO firsthand knowledge. Digging up old interviews, and quoting other people doesn't change that. As much as you hate being told you don't know what you're talking about because you're white, black people don't appreciate being told how WE think or feel about anyone or anything.

And please don't make Madonna out to be some civil rights champion. She's not. The last I checked black people have the same rights and opportunities as everyone else, and we did it long before she came on the scene.

[Guest nothingfails0603]

What makes one qualified to have an opinion? Because I am white I cannot offer insight from the outside? By arguing that you are saying that no one can look objectively at a situation unless they are a part of it and I am not sure that is true.

Also, I am not basing my assumptions solely on my own point of view. There have been several in the African-American community who have made statements which lend credence to that theory. In the early 90's Arsenio Hall gave an interview to JET where he said he liked Madonna but felt as though she appropriated black culture for her own gain and that she shouldn't be in a place to dictate black fashion to anyone.

At the time when Madonna was "dating" Tupac people claimed he wouldn't be public about it because his close friends and family had a problem with her being "white."

And let's not forget Madonna herself:

Pop music superstar Madonna recently told Spin magazine, "I've never been treated more disrespectfully as a woman than by the Black men that I've dated."

In Spin's January 1996 issue, the seductive entertainer revealed she never expressed her controversial opinion before, but she thought the way Black men treated her was a reflection of their culture.

Madonna, who was once involved in a highly publicized relationship with colorful, controversial basketball star Dennis Rodman of the Chicago Bulls, went on to say, "I think Black men have just been s--- on for so long, that, in a way, Black women are maybe more willing to accept rage from a Black man, because they see what's happened to them."

She said many Black men grow up without fathers or strong male figures, and they are used to seeing men disrespect women.

In the exclusive interview, Madonna noted she thought she appealed to Blacks because she's a female, therefore in a minority group also. But she said she later realized that the Black community does not support her.

"I identified with Black men because I thought in a way we experience the same things--people treat you like s---'cause you're Black, people treat you like s---'cause you're a woman."

The outspoken singer went on to say, "And I came to the realization that a strong female is frightening to everybody, because all societies are male-dominated--Black societies, poor people, rich people, any racial group, they're all dominated by men. A strong female is going to threaten everybody across the board."

So yes, I do feel as though I have enough data to at least put the point forward for discussion as a possibility. It really annoys me when people say "you don't have right to comment on that because you aren't..." I don't have to be Jewish to say the Holocaust was a horrific thing. I don't have to be Palestinian to say Israel kills innocent people in the West Bank (and vice versa). I don't have to be a drug addict to say drugs can be a destructive thing.

Never mind arguing with Afrolito. He just accused me of saying all black people are from the ghetto just because I think Mariah has as much in common with hip hop culture as Celine does with the skater punk culture. Never mind the fact that I've posted more in the MJ, Prince and Janet threads than he ever has. Total pulling of the annoying race card in here.

[afrolito]

Never mind arguing with Afrolito. He just accused me of saying all black people are from the ghetto just because I think Mariah has as much in common with hip hop culture as Celine does with the skater punk culture. Never mind the fact that I've posted more in the MJ, Prince and Janet threads than he ever has. Total pulling of the annoying race card in here.

And you did it again. Hip hop is not the be all and end all of black culture. Noty only did YOU play the race card, you played the stupid card too.

Congrats on posting in the MJ,Prince and Janet threads. You deserve a special award in black culture.

Are you serious??