US promotion of Celebration

[howie]

Everything you've posted in this thread. I agree 100%. But you're so right about we won't get less of her just because the record label is losing money.... she really doesn't need to do that when she can sell out concert shows... In the end, that's where Madonna is going to make most of her money. S

Well.. all is said now

[bliss]

but is she joining kaballah, getting a decades younger boyfriend, pimping out her daughter in a slutty wedding gown, leaving typos and sonic flaws on her final retrospective on the warner years, possibly adding black bars to scenes in her dvd, and moving on for greener pastures after having a hot mess "duet" with a currently-popular rapper who didn't even rerecord his demo?

no, i'm morbidly curious. other than being alive, what is she doing to promote her season dvd?

[infiniblue]

no i was serious, you finally got me curious about it. what does one do to promote a show that the current and last generations are too young to remember? not being a jerk per se, i'm actually morbidly curious as to what the still living mrs. duke former mrs. astin is doing for this?

[bliss]

no i was serious, you finally got me curious about it. what does one do to promote a show that the current and last generations are too young to remember? not being a jerk per se, i'm actually morbidly curious as to what the still living mrs. duke former mrs. astin is doing for this?

Hi I left a link @ "When Cousins Are Two Of A Kind" at the Movie, Television... section where she talks about

the season 1 release and her role on stage. Check it out if interested!

[infiniblue]

intriguing. i'l say this, watching that lil interview she did got me misty a bit. it is kind of a time capsule, like the madonna of the innocent erotica... er, no, the innocent justify my love... um, the innocent revolver... ok, madge is a ho at times and never really pulled innocent off (unless you look into the eyes of the "the first album" cover rather than the "madonna" release of it, maybe only then) but yeah, ok. it looks wholesome and worth a glance to me, even if the accent is kind of austin powers fat bastard scottish bad.

so touche, it did get me to think of purer times long before my generation. but how old are you, anyhow? just curious... you act as if you were growing up watching it at times in your vehement defense of it.

[Kurt420]

Well.. all is said now

That makes no sense to me. You have a problem with her SELLING out her shows and making lots of MONEY. Then you want her to whore herself out on every show possible for album promo what reason exactly? I would assume it would be so she can make more people aware of her product so they will BUY it....in turn she makes more MONEY. No matter what type of promo she CHOOSES to focus on, the goal would be the same: to SELL and make more MONEY.

I know some of us wish Madonna performed just so we will have youtube videos to nitpick about how she doesn't look or sing right anymore but somehow I don't think that's the "prize" she has in mind when embarking on promo of any kind.

[howie]

you're funny

I was implying that she's not doing TV promo because she's not directly making much money off of it, because promo results in album/single sales, and she doesn't make that much money that way.. whereas the tour gives her a much larger paycheck.

[Supernatural]

you're funny

I was implying that she's not doing TV promo because she's not directly making much money off of it, because promo results in album/single sales, and she doesn't make that much money that way.. whereas the tour gives her a much larger paycheck.

Warner plays a part in all the aspects everyone is complaining about (videos, promo, etc). We won't know for sure til she has an album with a new label how much of it is Madonna.

[howie]

Warner plays a part in all the aspects everyone is complaining about (videos, promo, etc). We won't know for sure til she has an album with a new label how much of it is Madonna.

Yes, Madonna is probably eager to do every TV show possible, but big bad Warner is keeping her locked in

[Cherish]

Is Madonna even going to bother with the U.S? Europe and Asia are her major markets now, that's perhaps where she should direct her promotional efforts, until U.S radio starts supporting her again!

[HolidayGuy]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but Madge supposedly is committed to appear on one high-profile show- we don't yet know which it is. Maybe Letterman?

Matt R. at Boy Culture says chances of SNL are evaporating.

[acko]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but Madge supposedly is committed to appear on one high-profile show- we don't yet know which it is. Maybe Letterman?

Matt R. at Boy Culture says chances of SNL are evaporating.

For fuck's sake Madonna

So much 4 the press release which sez..'Major Tv appearances'

[thelight]

Everything you've posted in this thread. I agree 100%. It's actually how I feel. And I never even thought about what you said in bold, but maybe subconsciously. But you're so right about we won't get less of her just because the record label is losing money. And I think people keep forgetting a tour is ultimate promotion for any artist. I've said this many times, but some think she should be whoring herself out everywhere and while I wouldn't mind seeing her here and there, in the end, she really doesn't need to do that when she can sell out concert shows. I also think you hit the nail on the wall regarding how some are so adamant about moaning about Madonna not doing TV appearances and other promotions like artists like Mariah or Janet who do such promotion, yet they can't sell out concert shows like Madonna can. In the end, that's where Madonna is going to make most of her money. So I can totally understand why she isn't going to waste her time promoting a single when she can be concentrating on the the concerts which is her bread and butter. As some still don't realize, Madonna is paid up front with her albums. She makes the music and makes her videos and than goes on tour. Anything else, is a treat. And in the past, she rarely did anymore than just making videos and touring. It's only this decade she's done much more promotion on TV and even mini-promo gigs.

I've always been interested in how music contracts really work. So she's paid an advance, but recieves royalties from album sales, right?

[peter]

^ Well the $120 million Live Nation deal was an estimate -- and she wasn't going to be paid $120 million up front. I know that much... I think there was a rumored up-front payment, but I forget how much it was. (The remainder would be earned from tours, CD sales, etc.)

There is an advance. If it works anything like the publishing business, though, the royalties are sort of balanced against the advance. (I think... I might not be quite clear on this either.)

Royalties can be so tricky -- if you sell a bunch of books to the distributor, then they go to the bookstores and they don't sell, the bookstores can return them to the distributor, and then ultimately the distributor returns them to the publisher. (And the publisher pays for the shipping of the books -- which is really expensive, because books are heavy -- to the distributor and from the distributor!) So, in the time of all of this happening, royalties can be processed and paid to the author. But if/when returns come in, it can adjust the royalty payments -- so the author ends up owing the publisher money.

So, in really ridiculously low/simple terms, if an artist is advanced $50 for an album, they might not be paid any royalties until after the $50 advance has been recovered by the company. That sounds practical, but if the advance is $10 million or something, I don't really know if that's logical. You'd have to sell 1 million CDs to earn $10 million gross on an album.

I'm not really sure if the advance is supposed to just be for the artist/author, or if it's supposed to be used to help create the project -- research for a book, for example. Because a label has to pay for studio time for an artist (which is really expensive) -- does that come out of the advance, or does that come out of the label's overhead?

Promotion is even murkier -- who foots the bill for the videos, etc.

I could be TOTALLY wrong about this, but it's a guess on my part. The most recent estimate I heard was that artists receive $1 for every album sold. The rest goes to labels, distributors, retailers, etc. That's why the touring is so much more lucrative for Madonna -- she sees a heck of a lot more bang for her buck with ticket and merch sales than with album sales.

[thelight]

^ Well the $120 million Live Nation deal was an estimate -- and she wasn't going to be paid $120 million up front. I know that much... I think there was a rumored up-front payment, but I forget how much it was. (The remainder would be earned from tours, CD sales, etc.)

There is an advance. If it works anything like the publishing business, though, the royalties are sort of balanced against the advance. (I think... I might not be quite clear on this either.)

Royalties can be so tricky -- if you sell a bunch of books to the distributor, then they go to the bookstores and they don't sell, the bookstores can return them to the distributor, and then ultimately the distributor returns them to the publisher. (And the publisher pays for the shipping of the books -- which is really expensive, because books are heavy -- to the distributor and from the distributor!) So, in the time of all of this happening, royalties can be processed and paid to the author. But if/when returns come in, it can adjust the royalty payments -- so the author ends up owing the publisher money.

So, in really ridiculously low/simple terms, if an artist is advanced $50 for an album, they might not be paid any royalties until after the $50 advance has been recovered by the company. That sounds practical, but if the advance is $10 million or something, I don't really know if that's logical. You'd have to sell 1 million CDs to earn $10 million gross on an album.

I'm not really sure if the advance is supposed to just be for the artist/author, or if it's supposed to be used to help create the project -- research for a book, for example. Because a label has to pay for studio time for an artist (which is really expensive) -- does that come out of the advance, or does that come out of the label's overhead?

Promotion is even murkier -- who foots the bill for the videos, etc.

I could be TOTALLY wrong about this, but it's a guess on my part. The most recent estimate I heard was that artists receive $1 for every album sold. The rest goes to labels, distributors, retailers, etc. That's why the touring is so much more lucrative for Madonna -- she sees a heck of a lot more bang for her buck with ticket and merch sales than with album sales.

wow. thanx for taking the time to elaborate. i was in the music biz, had a song on the radio, but that turned into a nightmare. puff daddy literally ruined my career because his company, bad boy, wanted to buy a beat that was on my demo. the producer wanted to sell it but needed my permission because the music production had my input (specifically, i wanted the the sound (hip hop) to have a middle eastern touch (which no one was really doing at the time) so i said he couldn't sell it. we fell out after that... you mentioned who pays for vidoes, i've wondered about that too. Madonna mentioned in a magazine interview once that she was "balancing my daughter on my lap wondering how i'm going to finance my next video", this was during the ROL era. Perhaps artists who can afford it finance their own vids instead of borrowing from the label. Are you an author? u seem to know a lot about publishing.

[Guest Danny86]

^ Well the $120 million Live Nation deal was an estimate -- and she wasn't going to be paid $120 million up front. I know that much... I think there was a rumored up-front payment, but I forget how much it was. (The remainder would be earned from tours, CD sales, etc.)

Are you sure about this? I think Live Nation stated Madonna gets $125 million but not right away in October 2007, but through the years or something? That is why they are going to milk her so anyone who expects long breaks, less tours and less commercial music should think again.

[Guest blueferris]

Madonna fans cling to her tour success and make it the be-all end-all

the same way mariah fans cling to her no1s.

She's not on tour NOW so what does that matter?

She's got a new album coming out ìn a few days that needs her to promote it!!!

Her past tour gross got NOTHING to do w/ that!

Its great and swell that her tour returns are

huge but she still needs to sell ALBUMS and have hits!

She still needs to do promo ...

it can't be ALL about concerts!

[howie]

Madonna fans cling to her tour success and make it the be-all end-all

the same way mariah fans cling to her no1s.

She's not on tour NOW so what does that matter?

She's got a new album coming out ìn a few days that needs her to promote it!!!

Her past tour gross got NOTHING to do w/ that!

Its great and swell that her tour returns are

huge but she still needs to sell ALBUMS and have hits!

She still needs to do promo ...

it can't be ALL about concerts!

:clap:

[Supernatural]

promo isn't always the answer. Madonna has bent over backwards to promote things that failed, had huge success with things she did little to promote, etc.

[Kurt420]

Madonna fans cling to her tour success and make it the be-all end-all

the same way mariah fans cling to her no1s.

She's not on tour NOW so what does that matter?

She's got a new album coming out ìn a few days that needs her to promote it!!!

Her past tour gross got NOTHING to do w/ that!

Its great and swell that her tour returns are

huge but she still needs to sell ALBUMS and have hits!

She still needs to do promo ...

it can't be ALL about concerts!

As time progresses though touring is going to become the "end all be all" for her. As is, her latest studio album was one of the top 5 sellers in the world last year, so even on the albums front she's still on top of her game too.....and that was with minimal promo. The fact is though, sales are dropping FAST, Madonna is getting older and she's simply not going to be selling 5-10 million copies of each album she puts out anymore. Celebration will be extremely lucky to do as well as Hard Candy did on it's chart run IMO. With a massive fanbase like hers and as long as she continues to have fairly big lead singles like she always has, then she will remain "current" for a long time. I don't think it's neccesary (nor very realistic) for M to have 3,4 or 5 hits off an album anymore. I'm just not quite sure what fans expect from her these days, promo or not, she's been hugely successful on all fronts the past year or so (albums, touring, one of her biggest singles ever). With her "veteran" status and in today's commercial climate how much more successful can she be really??

I'm not referencing you neccesarily, but I think fans' expectations of the commercial success of this album are way too high and unrealistic.

[neutrocks]

I've always been interested in how music contracts really work. So she's paid an advance, but recieves royalties from album sales, right?

Yes... in fact most signed artists are paid up front for their albums. And depending on their contract, they do receive a percentage of royalties once the album starts selling. Their record company usually gives them enough money to make videos as well or any other promotion that may cost. The record company is responsible for a lot of promotion. And yes, they should encourage their artists to make appearances. But the true promotion for an album is touring. Madonna has got it right. The focus should be on touring because for the most part she's got paid and as long as she's holding up her obligation with her record company, she isn't doing anything wrong regarding promotion. If so, the record company would have dropped her long ago.

I just find it humorous how so many claim she doesn't do her part in promoting her music when in fact, much of her career in the 80's and even in the 90's, she didn't do a lot of television appearances/performances. It was only when she released RAY OF LIGHT when she started doing a lot of television. And over the years, she's still done more than she ever did in the 80's.

What is different today? She has to do a little extra leg work in promotion because she lacks radio appeal now and MTV doesn't play her videos (or any video) like they use to. But if I was Madonna I would be doing exactly what she is doing and putting on her big tours because that is where she makes the bucks. Doing extensive interviews these days isn't really going to make her albums fly off the racks. I mean; look at AMERICAN LIFE. She did a lot of TV and store promotion (more than she ever did) and that is her worst selling album.

A lot of fans are too focused on her sales and charting. And while I can understand the artist should be concerned about their album sales, Madonna is still selling far more than most artists these days even newer artists. Her longevity is a plus, so whether he album sells less, she still proves that she is quite relevant in the music business.

In any event, I think this GREATEST HITS set will be a huge seller within time. And I think it will have a big sales debut considering she has the competition of Mariah and Barbara as well as some other artists being released this coming week.

[Supernatural]

Madonna fans cling to her tour success and make it the be-all end-all

the same way mariah fans cling to her no1s.

most artists and people in the record business are saying that touring is where the focus is now. People like Mariah, obsessed with their own Billboard charting and album sales will be a thing of the past shortly.

[neutrocks]

As time progresses though touring is going to become the "end all be all" for her. As is, her latest studio album was one of the top 5 sellers in the world last year, so even on the albums front she's still on top of her game too.....and that was with minimal promo. The fact is though, sales are dropping FAST, Madonna is getting older and she's simply not going to be selling 5-10 million copies of each album she puts out anymore. Celebration will be extremely lucky to do as well as Hard Candy did on it's chart run IMO. With a massive fanbase like hers and as long as she continues to have fairly big lead singles like she always has, then she will remain "current" for a long time. I don't think it's neccesary (nor very realistic) for M to have 3,4 or 5 hits off an album anymore. I'm just not quite sure what fans expect from her these days, promo or not, she's been hugely successful on all fronts the past year or so (albums, touring, one of her biggest singles ever). With her "veteran" status and in today's commercial climate how much more successful can she be really??

I'm not referencing you neccesarily, but I think fans' expectations of the commercial success of this album are way too high and unrealistic.

I have to agree. In the past, her albums sold better, she made more money from them and all the deals she struck within promotion, etc. Now she's that radio and video stations aren't begging for her new stuff. So now she's concentrating on touring. Right now, it's a successful run, but eventually that will run it's course as well. Fans give her a hard time doing other things like movies and writing children books, but she is simply securing a financial future. And she'll always have a decent fan base that will follow her til the day she leaves this earth. And she's hardly an artist right now who needs to take anything she gets. She is still producing her own things that is helping her stay relevant. I will be interest to see where she will be when she hits 60.

[peter]

wow. thanx for taking the time to elaborate. i was in the music biz, had a song on the radio, but that turned into a nightmare. puff daddy literally ruined my career because his company, bad boy, wanted to buy a beat that was on my demo. the producer wanted to sell it but needed my permission because the music production had my input (specifically, i wanted the the sound (hip hop) to have a middle eastern touch (which no one was really doing at the time) so i said he couldn't sell it. we fell out after that... you mentioned who pays for vidoes, i've wondered about that too. Madonna mentioned in a magazine interview once that she was "balancing my daughter on my lap wondering how i'm going to finance my next video", this was during the ROL era. Perhaps artists who can afford it finance their own vids instead of borrowing from the label. Are you an author? u seem to know a lot about publishing.

You're welcome -- although, like I said, I'm not extremely well-informed. So I hope I didn't mislead you at all.

I think there are probably some shared expenses for music videos, although Madonna does seem to talk about funding them herself a lot -- I specifically remember her talking about how SHE lost a lot of money in pulling the original "American Life" video (emphasizing her, not the label losing money). But then, she also gets clothing donated for the videos, etc., so I'm sure that, while they are expensive promotional pieces, they are not without some perks for her.

I'm not an author, but I worked for a very small publisher for about five years. Actually, it was so small it was classified as a "micropublisher" by the largest distributer/wholesaler in the publishing realms. We did not pay advances to our authors, but they did receive royalties. The scenario I described, though, does happen -- where royalties are processed for an author, but then returns come in and so those sales are no longer "sales" and so the author would end up owing the publisher back some money. Crazy -- it's one of the few industries where returns like that are allowable for such a period of time. (Whereas, in clothing retail, for example, they just keep discounting the apparel until people buy it on clearance. With books, some stores do that, but most of the time they ship unsold stock back to the distributor, who sends it back to the publisher.)

Are you sure about this? I think Live Nation stated Madonna gets $125 million but not right away in October 2007, but through the years or something? That is why they are going to milk her so anyone who expects long breaks, less tours and less commercial music should think again.

I'm not sure about it -- well, I'm sure I *read* that. I'm NOT sure how accurate it was -- but, Danny, I think you and I are saying the same thing. She was not advanced $125 million -- that's what I was saying, and I think that's what you're saying. She was being given a certain amount up front, the rest is earned later in increments as she produces albums and tours and gets promtional deals. I think the deal is definitely supposed to be worth $120 million -- but what I meant by "estimated worth" was that it COULD end up being MORE than that -- if she continues to work angles similar to the H&M, Vuitton, Ariake deals.

So, I'm picking a number out of the sky here, but if they gave her $30 million up front, she could see $90 million more roll her way over the next nine years. That might not be $10 million per year -- it might arrive in chunks surrounding different projects, etc. But that was the understanding I got from something I read when the Live Nation deal took place. Whether that's 100% correct, I don't know. (And not sure if anyone publicly does know -- these 360 deals are somewhat new, and the deal is technically private, right? So only a small number of people know the details for certain.)

[Guest groovyguy]

Source: Business Insider

Live Nation's $120 Million Bet: Breaking Down Madonna Deal

Peter Kafka|Oct. 10, 2007, 11:08 PM

Warner Music Group (WMG) dodged a bullet by missing out on the Madonna deal. What did Live Nation get by winning it? A high-stakes shot at diversifying its low-margin business. Live Nation will eventually have to provide details on the $120 million deal (which may not actually be a $120 million deal, but we'll get to that shortly). In the meantime, here's the rough estimate, courtesy of Ethan Smith at the WSJ:

• $17.5 million: A general advance -- money Madonna gets just for being Madonna.

• $50 to $60 million: Advances for up to three new albums. This money only gets handed over when Madonna delivers the music, so it's possible that LYV will won't have to pay all of this out. Perhaps the Material Girl won't be moved to record another 36 to 45 more songs.

• $50 million in cash and stock for the right to promote Madonna's concerts and to license her name. Note that Live Nation still has to share concert and licensing revenue: It will give her 90% of concert sales and 50% of licensing money it collects.

Live Nation has almost no chance of earning back its money on Madonna's albums -- every one she delivers will be a money-losing proposition for them. So in essence, Live Nation is paying between $67.5 million and $127.5 million for right to promote Madonna's tour and sell her name on perfume, etc. Can they make their money back?

---JUMP--- Concert promotion is a risky and low-margin business. In Q2 07 -- traditionally, the spring and summer are the strongest for the concert business -- Live Nation squeaked out operating income of $36 million on sales of $1 billion. The licensing business, at least, is relatively risk-free, but it's not a cash machine, either: Live Nation will probably keep 33 cents of each licensing dollar it generates, but it will have to split that with Madonna as well.

Madonna's last tour was a record-breaker for female artists, and generated $195 million over 60 shows. She's nearly 50, but oldsters do well on the concert circuit -- their fans have plenty of disposable cash. Lets be optimistic, and assume she mounts a similar tour every three years, generating another $600 million over the course of the 10-year deal. Madonna will get 90% of that, and Live Nation won't actually keep the remaining 10%, since some of that will have to go to venue owners, etc. But let's call it $60 million to Live Nation.

Note: Madonna S&S tour alone has already generated $408 million

Source: Billboard Biz

Madonna To Set Record With Sticky & Sweet Tour September 02, 2009 - Touring By Ray Waddell, Nashville

Madonna's Sticky & Sweet wraps today with the second of two shows in Tel Aviv, Israel Sept. 1-2, putting the lid on what looks to be a record setting tour. With a gross of $408 million, Sticky & Sweet is the top-grossing tour by a solo artist of all time, and second only to the Rolling Stones' $558 million Bigger Bang tour of 2005-2007. "She is absolutely one of the great performers of all time," said Arthur Fogel, chairman of Global Music and CEO of Global Touring for Live Nation, producer of Madonna's tours. "That this tour will take its place as the second highest grossing tour in the history of our business says it all."

[peter]

^ Thanks, GroovyGuy. Would be interesting to hear whether Mr. Kafka would like to retract his statement now that Madonna's already grossed two-thirds of the money he "generously" predicted she might earn in three tours over the next decade. And there are other large markets she didn't make it to on this tour -- Australia, Asia.