Death & Taxes: Madonna Was Better Than Michael Jackson

[BrokenButterfly]

I didn't see a topic for this, so I'll just leave it here:

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/221072/madonna-was-better-than-michael-jackson/

Madonna, Jackson’s female counterpart for most of the ’80s, born on the same year and month as Jackson, seems to actually be invincible. She’s evolved like some Darwinian star child, and because of her resilience she’s much more impressive than Jackson, who crumbled early during his prime. Her ability to keep up with the times and continue to be a relevant artist, 30 years into her career, is astounding. Michael Jackson was completely done a decade in; Madonna just got started, a decade in. Her 30-year solo career is only rivaled by Elton John, Mariah Carey, and Paul McCartney (in terms of the living), and she’s even had more UK #1 singles than Jackson.

I’ll be the first to admit that Madonna could never be as talented as Jackson–as both a singer and dancer–but Madonna is better, because Madonna’s influence reigns supreme on today’s artists, her impact on pop culture through film and fashion may never be topped, and Madonna changed the role of women in pop music. She gave women power, the ability to do more than just record dance hits, and brought about change in the industry that gave birth to every single pop star today.

[Skin]

I see no lies except,

Were Elton and Paul producing top 10 hits 30 years into their careers though?

The Mariah mention is random also.

[Nonoka]

Those Madonna vs Michael comparisons are just as stupid as all the other Madonna vs pop princess xy comparisons! Why just can't some people accept that both were equally as succesful, equally as acclaimed, equally as popular and equally as revolutionary icons? Both were undisposable and both changed pop music, live shows, music videos, fashion etc. forever. That's what's important! You can not take their body of work and compare them one by one though, nor can you do that with their careers (why does that even matter?). This is just silly!

[Guest whatatramp]

he was a singles artist no better than alexander o'neal IMO with a few okish videos with innovative special effects

"Madonna, fearing nothing, is the most talked-about pop artist of all time, the face of the MTV generation and without question the most influential pop star since Elvis."

PROUD OF HER

[Nonoka]

^Trying to diminish MJ's achievements in order to praise M? Come on, that's ridiculous and you know it. M herself would never approve of that.

Seriously, in the league of the legends and icons, the league Michael, Madonna, Elvis, The Beatles etc. belong to, there's no "better than". There's just greatness. To every point one could bring up to say "Look, that singer was more succesful and important", another one can respond with other points proving the opposite. It's silly.

I know, I'm a MJ fan and I might regard some things less objectively than others in that matter, but it really doesn't take lot of objectivity to see the obvious - both are put on the exact same high spot by the public and critics.

[Guest whatatramp]

^Trying to diminish MJ's achievements in order to praise M? Come on, that's ridiculous and you know it. M herself would never approve of that.

Seriously, in the league of the legends and icons, the league Michael, Madonna, Elvis, The Beatles etc. belong to, there's no "better than". There's just greatness. To every point one could bring up to say "Look, that singer was more succesful and important", another one can respond with other points proving the opposite. It's silly.

I know, I'm a MJ fan and I might regard some things less objectively than others in that matter, but it really doesn't take lot of objectivity to see the obvious - both are put on the exact same high spot by the public and critics.

It wasn't really to do with this article it's just my honest opinion that i've always had of him, obviously i know most people disagree with it

[erotica blu]

@whatatramp

Easy to forget O'Neal found acceptance in the UK. Stateside his audience is primarily black.

[Guest whatatramp]

@whatatramp

Easy to forget O'Neal found acceptance in the UK. Stateside his audience is primarily black.

I know I think he toured here a few years back? my mum had around 4 or 5 of his albums growing up including his christmas album lmao

[IsaacHarris]

madonna > micheal jackson.

[IsaacHarris]

Madonna is better

Pretty much.

[IsaacHarris]

...both are put on the exact same high spot by the public and critics.

That's actually not true though. Madonna is not regarded as one of the greats by both the media & the public.

Aside form this forum, I have never in my life seen any television broadcast, award show, or tribute to Madonna that equates her success with Micheal Jackson's. Yes, her impact and legacy is JUST AS BIG (I'd argue that it's bigger) as MJ's, but the general public does not think so. When she dies, I'm sure they'll finally get into her catalog & recognize as her as the Queen of Life she is, but in the present day she's still tossed into the league of current flop princesses as if she's not above & beyond them.

And as an individual artist, MJ really never grew or adapted post -1980's. His worldwide influence is undeniable, but in terms of artistry, versatility, longevity, and personal conviction ...Madonna kinda slays him in every possible way & that's no shade to him.

[Skin]

Michael will always be "The King of Pop." No one can ever take that for him. But for me he was a one trick pony. He peaked HARD and FAST with Thriller, and instead of evolving and growing as an artist over the years (like Madonna) he spent all of his time trying to repeat the success of Thriller instead of moving on from it and realizing it was a massive moment in time that couldn't be duplicated. It would be like Madonna spending her whole career trying to repeat the success of Like a Virgin with the same style and look.

The only thing that changed drastically was his face. Along with the fact that he became a total weirdo that couldn't keep his head on straight, unlike Madonna.

And I know Madonna likes her young boys as well, but at least they are always legal.

Sorry. I am still on the fence when it comes to MJ molesting boys. Usually where there is smoke, there is fire, and this man has had too much smoke around him over the years.

[Skin]

That's actually not true though. Madonna is not regarded as one of the greats by both the media & the public.

Aside form this forum, I have never in my life seen any television broadcast, award show, or tribute to Madonna that equates her success with Micheal Jackson's. Yes, her impact and legacy is JUST AS BIG (I'd argue that it's bigger) as MJ's, but the general public does not think so. When she dies, I'm sure they'll finally get into her catalog & recognize as her as the Queen of Life she is, but in the present day she's still tossed into the league of current flop princesses as if she's not above & beyond them.

And the thing that pisses me off is that people STILL say Madonna has no talent, and these same people lick Elvis's ass. And of course I am not downplaying Elvis's massive impact either, but this is a man that I don't think wrote ANY of his songs, unlike Madonna who has a huge hand in making her music, along with just about every other aspect of her art and career.

I think it boils down to what Madonna has been fighting against since she began. The idea that you cant be a woman who is sexually confident and intelligent at the same time.

[Skin]

Oh and on a side note, I think MTV pretty much equated Madonna to Michael. I mean they could have had someone from his family come out and comment on him and they chose the Queen of Pop to come out and say words about The King of Pop.

On another side note its kind of funny that everyone remembers that speech, but no one remembers Janets tribute at all.

[Jairo]

^Trying to diminish MJ's achievements in order to praise M? Come on, that's ridiculous and you know it. M herself would never approve of that.

Seriously, in the league of the legends and icons, the league Michael, Madonna, Elvis, The Beatles etc. belong to, there's no "better than". There's just greatness. To every point one could bring up to say "Look, that singer was more succesful and important", another one can respond with other points proving the opposite. It's silly.

I know, I'm a MJ fan and I might regard some things less objectively than others in that matter, but it really doesn't take lot of objectivity to see the obvious - both are put on the exact same high spot by the public and critics.

Exactly. That's my point too.

[IsaacHarris]

I think MTV pretty much equated Madonna to Michael.

Well she is the queen of the VMA's. They love her! Most other outlets don't hold her in such high regard.

[Guest]

That's actually not true though. Madonna is not regarded as one of the greats by both the media & the public.

Aside form this forum, I have never in my life seen any television broadcast, award show, or tribute to Madonna that equates her success with Micheal Jackson's. Yes, her impact and legacy is JUST AS BIG (I'd argue that it's bigger) as MJ's, but the general public does not think so. When she dies, I'm sure they'll finally get into her catalog & recognize as her as the Queen of Life she is, but in the present day she's still tossed into the league of current flop princesses as if she's not above & beyond them.

And as an individual artist, MJ really never grew or adapted post -1980's. His worldwide influence is undeniable, but in terms of artistry, versatility, longevity, and personal conviction ...Madonna kinda slays him in every possible way & that's no shade to him.

It's a case of SEXISM. Men like to see women compete against one another. Many women are too weak or stupid to fight against it. It's ironic considering that Madonna's success stems from her messages of freedom and equality and yet there are still echoes of sexism to this day. Racism will be overcome ENTIRELY before sexism has even been diminished in the slightest.

[Sloane]

I see no lies except Madonna IS a better dancer and singer. MJ did the same shit over and over. Jackson 5? Forget about it. I don't see it.

And don't even THINK of coming into this thread and saying MJ was better. Permanent ban, effective immediately lol

edit: He did have a few smooth trax though. Rock With You, In the Closet, Billie Jean. He does beat all the pop crap nowadays.

[horn]

Pariah 30 years in the biz? she's not even on the same level.

She will ALWAYS be a US LOCAL star.

[Jazzy Jan]

That's actually not true though. Madonna is not regarded as one of the greats by both the media & the public.

Aside form this forum, I have never in my life seen any television broadcast, award show, or tribute to Madonna that equates her success with Micheal Jackson's. Yes, her impact and legacy is JUST AS BIG (I'd argue that it's bigger) as MJ's, but the general public does not think so. When she dies, I'm sure they'll finally get into her catalog & recognize as her as the Queen of Life she is, but in the present day she's still tossed into the league of current flop princesses as if she's not above & beyond them.

And as an individual artist, MJ really never grew or adapted post -1980's. His worldwide influence is undeniable, but in terms of artistry, versatility, longevity, and personal conviction ...Madonna kinda slays him in every possible way & that's no shade to him.

Isaac, I don't feel that people put Madonna in the same league as the current pop princesses. She is known and admired much more, apart from the people who like to constantly put her down for whatever reason. A lot of the media rubbish her and downplay her but she still creates more buzz and attention than any female singer ever. Also, Madonna does not like tributes about herself and seems to be embarrassed when people praise her. She has often turned down getting special awards and always looks ill at ease with compliments from people. Michael Jackson loved all of those tribute shows and getting adored. Madonna is a lot more modest than people think.

As morbid as this sounds, people also get a lot more praise and appreciation when they have died. The fact that Madonna is still the most talked about female singer around after 30 years is something incredible really.

[Nonoka]

I really don't get the point of you guys saying M was more succesful because she had more longevity. Yes, that is a fact, but it's also true that most of MJ's albums sold more than 3 or 4 of her usual album sales combined, so is the fact that while his peak didn't last too long, he sold more in his prime than Madonna did. Then again, one could say M had a bigger hit catalogue. Really, as I've said before, you could go on and on and on, there are so many points you could use to prove M was more succesful and equally as many points to prove MJ was more succesful - it amounts to the same thing.

Same to his and her achievements - Madonna left a much more remarkable influence on fashion and was the epitome of a trendsetter, however more artists cite him nowadays as his biggest influence rather than M. While MJ was a highly acclaimed dancer, M was the one who really changed the live shows forever, not MJ - but in the aspect of music videos, MJ was the pioneer first and foremost. Once again, you could go on and on and dispute about who had more influence and impact in which aspect, but it amounts to the same thing after all.

Now of course, if one personally prefers the one over the other, that's a totally different thing and perfectly fine!

One thing though - why can't some of you just leave all this personal life talk out of the discussion? We as M fans should know how annoying and unfair it is that whenever you try to have an objective talk about Madonna's music with somebody, often they just babble the same shit media keeps telling them all day - that she's youth-obsessed, not acting her age, messing up her face, being desperate etc.

MJ's personal issues were a chapter on their own, but they usually have nothing to do with the actual thread topic, just like now - yet, people just can't restrain themselves from bringing them up. If those things really bother you guys so much, just open an own thread for it or something.

[Guest]

Michael is a performer with a fantastic voice and intense discipline. Madonna is a culturally enriching artist.

[Ivy]

And the thing that pisses me off is that people STILL say Madonna has no talent, and these same people lick Elvis's ass. And of course I am not downplaying Elvis's massive impact either, but this is a man that I don't think wrote ANY of his songs, unlike Madonna who has a huge hand in making her music, along with just about every other aspect of her art and career.I think it boils down to what Madonna has been fighting against since she began. The idea that you cant be a woman who is sexually confident and intelligent at the same time.

Incorrect, he did write a few of his songs ( have his greatest hits and he is credited as solo song writer on a few and don't forget he could play a mean guitar- however like Madonna could not act his way out of a paper bag ). Elvis like Madonna was electrifying. One swivel of his hips had many women moist within seconds. But like Michael, towards the end of his career he just became tired and repetitive.

And let's not sugar coat it, Madonna is / was way better than Michael.

[scottyenzed]

Michael is a performer with a fantastic voice and intense discipline. Madonna is a culturally enriching artist.

[Plaything]

Strange article. And Madonna WAS better? She IS.

[Nonoka]

Michael is a performer with a fantastic voice and intense discipline. Madonna is a culturally enriching artist.

That actually hits the nail quite nicely and is exactly my opinion as well.

[Skin]

Incorrect, he did write a few of his songs ( have his greatest hits and he is credited as solo song writer on a few and don't forget he could play a mean guitar- however like Madonna could not act his way out of a paper bag ). Elvis like Madonna was electrifying. One swivel of his hips had many women moist within seconds. But like Michael, towards the end of his career he just became tired and repetitive.

This is an interview from Elvis in 1957.

How do you write music if you don't read it? It's all a big hoax, honey. I never wrote a song in my life. I get one-third of the credit for recording it. It makes me look smarter than I am. I've never even had an idea for a song. Just once, maybe. -

[Guest Rachelle of London]

Erm maybe in the states Madonna isn't seen as a legend but worldwide she is. A few haters here and there do not diminish how respected she is WORLDWIDE!!!!!

And Madonna vs MJ AGAIN! Don't you people gt bored of this topic.

[Guest Rachelle of London]

And the thing that pisses me off is that people STILL say Madonna has no talent, and these same people lick Elvis's ass. And of course I am not downplaying Elvis's massive impact either, but this is a man that I don't think wrote ANY of his songs, unlike Madonna who has a huge hand in making her music, along with just about every other aspect of her art and career.

I think it boils down to what Madonna has been fighting against since she began. The idea that you cant be a woman who is sexually confident and intelligent at the same time.

Thank you Elvis ripped off many black artists at the time who to this day have never received the credit. Paleez. As a Vegas act he was brilliant but people give him TOO much credit!

[Nikki]

ugh I hate this comparison. first of all MJ is the most overrated artist of all time, people universally think he's brilliant. I love his performances, but he also repeated himself. that said, what he did was always very good, despite the repetitiveness. MJ played the innocent yet sexual role. M plays the provocative and daring role. I love them as artists both. they each give us other things to enjoy. However, I do have to admit that it irritates me a little when people say MJ was the true genius who wrote his music and sang live. No... I think they're both equally talented in those departments. MJ had quincy jones and M had patrick leonard for their timeless/most known hits in the 80s. I find M more creative and intelligent, more cultural. they both give a lot of attention to detail. something we don't see a lot today.

I really love watching MJ perform and some of his music. But damn.. he wasn't more of a genius than M.

however I do think they're both the epitome of pop music. The King and the Queen. these 2 are the only masters of pop and performance. and it's wonderful how at the same time they're so alike in the way of performing (some of the choreo on BAT is a bit MJ like) but at the same time, their artistry is really different.