Madonna/Vogue mentioned in cultural appropriation article

[Jazzy Jan]

Y'all ignorance tires me out

M-Dolla gets it. Thank you.

Don't tell me you are another one of those Cultural appropriation warriors as well.

[VogueMusic]

So for these folks who feel she's done so wrong by "appropriating" other cultures, do they feel shame or guilt when they listen to Vogue, or watch the performances? What about Nothing Really Matters, the Drowned World Tour, all the LIB performances, etc....?

[Jazzy Jan]

So for these folks who feel she's done so wrong by "appropriating" other cultures, do they feel shame or guilt when they listen to Vogue, or watch the performances? What about Nothing Really Matters, the Drowned World Tour, all the LIB performances, etc....?

They probably run crying and screaming - please forgive me, I listened and appropriated your culture - or something similar.

[Ivy]

So for these folks who feel she's done so wrong by "appropriating" other cultures, do they feel shame or guilt when they listen to Vogue, or watch the performances? What about Nothing Really Matters, the Drowned World Tour, all the LIB performances, etc....?

Dont forget the American Life flag video: That video basically screams racism!

In all honestly the borderline film clip annoys and pisses me off. Knowing Madonna culturally appropriated those orange socks from Wal Mart culture. Why couldn't she just go with a nice pair of Yves St Laurent socks. Thank god her flap cap period is over and she no longer culturally appropriates from the English.

[Jazzy Jan]

Dont forget the American Life flag video: That video basically screams racism!

In all honestly the borderline film clip annoys and pisses me off. Knowing Madonna culturally appropriated those orange socks from Wal Mart culture. Why couldn't she just go with a nice pair of Yves St Laurent socks. Thank god her flap cap period is over and she no longer culturally appropriates from the English.

Ivy, you often make me laugh out loud.

[5iVe Elements]

Those cultural blah blah idiots are narrow-minded people who need to get a life. Hello! Music should make the people come together. But yeah, they're idiots

[VogueMusic]

If you are deliberately mocking and dehumanizing a culture/community based on denigrating stereotypes... then yes, I can see that as a rational form of 'cultural appropriation'.

If you are taking such cultural things and claiming them as your own, when you have nothing to do with that culture...then yes, I can understand that as 'cultural appropriation' as well.

But if you are coming from a place of respect, genuine inspiration, and passion for that cultural thing...and you do your research...and even collaborate and learn from people of those very communities... and integrate that into your artistry or self-expression with the utmost respect... then tell me, where is the crime? Because every culture, minority themselves included, has been doing this since day one.

If you can't take a split moment to rationally discern the CONTEXT and INTENT behind something, and make a rational judgement from there, then you are going to be forever 'offended' at everything in this world.

And the real world is under no obligation to bend to the whim of your subjective feelings.

[5iVe Elements]

If you are deliberately mocking and dehumanizing a culture/community based on denigrating stereotypes... then yes, I can see that as a rational form of 'cultural appropriation'.

If you are taking such cultural things and claiming them as your own, when you have nothing to do with that culture...then yes, I can understand that as 'cultural appropriation' as well.

But if you are coming from a place of respect, genuine inspiration, and passion for that cultural thing...and you do your research...and even collaborate and learn from people of those very communities... and integrate that into your artistry or self-expression with the utmost respect... then tell me, where is the crime? Because every culture, minority themselves included, has been doing this since day one.

If you can't take a split moment to rationally discern the CONTEXT and INTENT behind something, and make a rational judgement from there, then you are going to be forever 'offended' at everything in this world.

And the real world is under no obligation to bend to the whim of your subjective feelings.

[Ai Papi Si.]

I'm 28 years old, a mere 5-10 years older than the 18-20 something crybabies that populate Tumblr now.

I feel miles removed from all of it. Newsflash - everything is appropriated in some form, and someone wound up making a whole lot of money for doing it. Welcome to planet fucking earth and the human race.

Right now, the keyboard you're typing on, the phone you're texting on, and that stupid fucking emoji you're using cuz you think it's hilarious has been appropriated.

White privilege is real and it's often a joke. Wanna see real racism? Checkout the high profile criminal cases involving law enforcement that have shaken America the past few years. Go talk to some awful redneck in Panama City and wait for him to make a derogatory comment about black or hispanic people. Go talk to congress about the concerted effort to try and strip away voting rights from minorities in this country. Go to our very own politics forum to see some of our very members on here call Obama a MONKEY. That's what should piss you off.

Instead you little CHILDREN go and cry your eyes out about Miley Fucking Cyrus shaking her ass on the MTV Awards. She made millions being a stupid white girl on Disney, now she's making millions being a stupid white girl with a record deal.

I swear, young people are sometimes the absolute worst. Grow some balls, I did, and you all look RIDICULOUS.

[VogueMusic]

I'm 28 years old, a mere 5-10 years older than the 18-20 something crybabies that populate Tumblr now.

I feel miles removed from all of it. Newsflash - everything is appropriated in some form, and someone wound up making a whole lot of money for doing it. Welcome to planet fucking earth and the human race.

Right now, the keyboard you're typing on, the phone you're texting on, and that stupid fucking emoji you're using cuz you think it's hilarious has been appropriated.

White privilege is real and it's often a joke. Wanna see real racism? Checkout the high profile criminal cases involving law enforcement that have shaken America the past few years. Go talk to some awful redneck in Panama City and wait for him to make a derogatory comment about black or hispanic people. Go talk to congress about the concerted effort to try and strip away voting rights from minorities in this country. Go to our very own politics forum to see some of our very members on here call Obama a MONKEY. That's what should piss you off.

Instead you little CHILDREN go and cry your eyes out about Miley Fucking Cyrus shaking her ass on the MTV Awards. She made millions being a stupid white girl on Disney, now she's making millions being a stupid white girl with a record deal.

I swear, young people are sometimes the absolute worst. Grow some balls, I did, and you all look RIDICULOUS.

So true. :clap:

Sadly, it's not just college kids... grown-ass adults are buying into and perpetuating all this shit too...especially in academia and the media.

[VogueMusic]

Something happens...these kids learn the real ugly, horrific history of this world, often by very biased professors in academia...which seems to spark a deep anger within certain ones that then feel the only way to right those historical wrongs is to police everything at face value. That righteous indignation becomes all consuming and blinding, and becomes a weapon they can use against any one that does not see these politics through their worldview, combined with academia, the media, and the internet joining in on that in the name of "liberalism" and "social justice" (all of which whose real principles are being bastardized in the process), they now have a platform to point the finger, attack, and be "offended" by whatever they want, and get the world to bend to their whim...all while the REAL oppressors in this world get off scott free because y'all are focused on a pop star who did an Asian motif...

And that's why I always say where is the real "justice" in this kind of "social justice"? Because all I see is a righteous anger turned into a self-victimizing weapon that ultimately does nothing but stroke the ego...so they can go back to their respective corners and pat themselves on the back and feel like they are the real 'good guys'.

Sadly, the witch hunts and the policing of every word, expression and thought is the very opposite of true liberal/progressive/social justice principles.

I'm interested in seeing this world these 'oh so enlightened' folks keep fighting for...one in which no one can cross any cultural boundary, no one can be inspired by things outside their own bubble...a culturally segregated paradise where no one is harmed and no feelings are hurt because everyone and everything stays in its place...

Truly... tell us how "just" that world would be...?

[Larkspur]

The answer to your question of why there might be a problem with Vogue is in my original post, which I don't feel you ever truly acknowledged. I don't want to go in circles so I'm not going to reiterate myself and talk about the hypothetical scenarios you're presenting when you aren't even willing to consider what I have to say.

If you want to consider individuals, consider the individuals from the balls who felt wronged and robbed by Madonna and Vogue. A lot of people talk like the first people to ever have a problem with Vogue were white teenagers on Tumblr decades later, when that isn't the case.

Could you blame them for being resentful? For finding it unfair Madonna was making so much money off Vogue when they were poor, homeless, barely getting by? Can you blame other people for seeing a problem with Vogue for the same reasons? I don't. I feel terrible for Willi Ninja every time I watch Paris is Burning during the scene where he talks about his dreams of globalizing voguing and riding the dance he was so involved with advancing to cultural notoriety, knowing Madonna would end up living out his dream a few years later.

Please understand there is a middle ground between the equally silly narratives of "Madonna is an exploitive racist that should be abhorred" and "anyone who says a negative word about Madonna's cultural appropriation is a fool." Vogue is one of my favorite Madonna songs and videos despite its baggage.

I have not in any way presented a hypothetical scenario. Quite the opposite.

I would think there is no middle ground as far as Madonna is concerned. We are talking about her song at the moment and that is why her opinion is very important here and not to be dismissed. Others can create a scenario that they believe for whatever reason but people can not be expected to automatically except it just because.

I can appreciate the disappoinment of others but Madonna doesn't belong anywhere near that. That was my problem with your original post. I was not denying what people endured but didn't appreciate someone being thrown into that so flippantly when they don't belong there. Based on what they look like? How much money they earned? None of that matters.

[Guest Rachelle of London]

Madonna is probably the most respected artist internationally, from the streets of London to the rain forests of South America. I can't name ONE place in the world where she is not Queen. If these cultures feel she has ripped them off why on Earth does Madonna get the love she does from the black, gay, spanish, Asian, (insert minority) that she does? If I'm being honest she probably gets more criticisms from white people.

From my opinion Madonna has always been inspired by other cultures and when she does use cultural references she does it respectfully. She doesn't exploit and never once have I heard her say she "invented" voguing, she's always been upfront about where she got it from. I think we have to step back and look at the bigger picture, this is a woman that travels extensively, speaks multiple languages, has been married to an Irish American and a Scotsman, has a child with a Cuban American, adopted two African children, dated rappers, sportsmen, sons of presidents, models, has a gay sibling whom she lived with at the time she created the song Vogue, has friends from all over the world and has strong European ancestry herself. She's so immersed in so many different cultures ALL THE TIME it would be weird if she wasn't inspired from them. In fact if she went out of her way not to be it wouldn't be natural. Even in Christophers book he mentioned when they first went to Japan and visited a geisha house and Madonna was soaking everything up, little did he know she would be using that imagery 15 years later. She doesn't just see a geisha and think, I'll chuck that on.

Madonna always has been respectful to all cultures and let me repeat is respected ALL OVER THE WORLD!

[Platinum Gold]

Madonna is probably the most respected artist internationally, from the streets of London to the rain forests of South America. I can't name ONE place in the world where she is not Queen. If these cultures feel she has ripped them off why on Earth does Madonna get the love she does from the black, gay, spanish, Asian, (insert minority) that she does? If I'm being honest she probably gets more criticisms from white people.

From my opinion Madonna has always been inspired by other cultures and when she does use cultural references she does it respectfully. She doesn't exploit and never once have I heard her say she "invented" voguing, she's always been upfront about where she got it from. I think we have to step back and look at the bigger picture, this is a woman that travels extensively, speaks multiple languages, has been married to an Irish American and a Scotsman, has a child with a Cuban American, adopted two African children, dated rappers, sportsmen, sons of presidents, models, has a gay sibling whom she lived with at the time she created the song Vogue, has friends from all over the world and has strong European ancestry herself. She's so immersed in so many different cultures ALL THE TIME it would be weird if she wasn't inspired from them. In fact if she went out of her way not to be it wouldn't be natural. Even in Christophers book he mentioned when they first went to Japan and visited a geisha house and Madonna was soaking everything up, little did he know she would be using that imagery 15 years later. She doesn't just see a geisha and think, I'll chuck that on.

Madonna always has been respectful to all cultures and let me repeat is respected ALL OVER THE WORLD!

PREACH SIS!!! YAAASS

[Mmmmm]

PREACH IT CHELLE!!!!!!

[MerGirl]

Madonna is probably the most respected artist internationally, from the streets of London to the rain forests of South America. I can't name ONE place in the world where she is not Queen. If these cultures feel she has ripped them off why on Earth does Madonna get the love she does from the black, gay, spanish, Asian, (insert minority) that she does? If I'm being honest she probably gets more criticisms from white people.

From my opinion Madonna has always been inspired by other cultures and when she does use cultural references she does it respectfully. She doesn't exploit and never once have I heard her say she "invented" voguing, she's always been upfront about where she got it from. I think we have to step back and look at the bigger picture, this is a woman that travels extensively, speaks multiple languages, has been married to an Irish American and a Scotsman, has a child with a Cuban American, adopted two African children, dated rappers, sportsmen, sons of presidents, models, has a gay sibling whom she lived with at the time she created the song Vogue, has friends from all over the world and has strong European ancestry herself. She's so immersed in so many different cultures ALL THE TIME it would be weird if she wasn't inspired from them. In fact if she went out of her way not to be it wouldn't be natural. Even in Christophers book he mentioned when they first went to Japan and visited a geisha house and Madonna was soaking everything up, little did he know she would be using that imagery 15 years later. She doesn't just see a geisha and think, I'll chuck that on.

Madonna always has been respectful to all cultures and let me repeat is respected ALL OVER THE WORLD!

Spill that tea! 🐸☕️

[Guest Rachelle of London]

Hahaha

[TNT]

Ugh, SJWs. So many of them have become so extreme that it's getting harder and harder to tell the difference between them and the hardcore right. They've even turned against white gays at this point. But what's really worrisome is that they've started infiltrating the mainstream. The irony is most of them are middle- and upper-class whites.

When I first joined Tumblr a couple years ago I looked at SJWs as a group whose actions I disagreed with, but whose endgame matched mine. Now I don't even know what their endgame is and all I see from them is hate. They're ignorant hypocrites.

As for Madonna, she has the one thing they so desperately need: ACTUAL LIFE EXPERIENCE. That's infinitely more valuable than their theoretical ideologies.

*Sorry for the rant. I'm just so done with the SJW bullshit.

[Jazzy Jan]

Madonna is probably the most respected artist internationally, from the streets of London to the rain forests of South America. I can't name ONE place in the world where she is not Queen. If these cultures feel she has ripped them off why on Earth does Madonna get the love she does from the black, gay, spanish, Asian, (insert minority) that she does? If I'm being honest she probably gets more criticisms from white people.

From my opinion Madonna has always been inspired by other cultures and when she does use cultural references she does it respectfully. She doesn't exploit and never once have I heard her say she "invented" voguing, she's always been upfront about where she got it from. I think we have to step back and look at the bigger picture, this is a woman that travels extensively, speaks multiple languages, has been married to an Irish American and a Scotsman, has a child with a Cuban American, adopted two African children, dated rappers, sportsmen, sons of presidents, models, has a gay sibling whom she lived with at the time she created the song Vogue, has friends from all over the world and has strong European ancestry herself. She's so immersed in so many different cultures ALL THE TIME it would be weird if she wasn't inspired from them. In fact if she went out of her way not to be it wouldn't be natural. Even in Christophers book he mentioned when they first went to Japan and visited a geisha house and Madonna was soaking everything up, little did he know she would be using that imagery 15 years later. She doesn't just see a geisha and think, I'll chuck that on.

Madonna always has been respectful to all cultures and let me repeat is respected ALL OVER THE WORLD!

Wow, Brilliant post Chelle.

[VogueMusic]

Ugh, SJWs. So many of them have become so extreme that it's getting harder and harder to tell the difference between them and the hardcore right. They've even turned against white gays at this point. But what's really worrisome is that they've started infiltrating the mainstream. The irony is most of them are middle- and upper-class whites.

When I first joined Tumblr a couple years ago I looked at SJWs as a group whose actions I disagreed with, but whose endgame matched mine. Now I don't even know what their endgame is and all I see from them is hate. They're ignorant hypocrites.

As for Madonna, she has the one thing they so desperately need: ACTUAL LIFE EXPERIENCE. That's infinitely more valuable than their theoretical ideologies.

*Sorry for the rant. I'm just so done with the SJW bullshit.

THIS.

[nick00]

Still hate some social justice f**ktards!

Can't relate to their disturbing mob mentality and silencing freedom of speech.

They have been pretty successful in recruiting all type of minorities to their cause to help beat the drum of chronic victimization.